UAMCC will they answer the Questions??

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Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
Re: Answers to Questions!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth n Rod
It's good to see the answers, and to read the further explanations here as well. Just a thought, you might want to add some of the further explanation to the document itself. Someone will miss it in the thread...at some point...

Now you know at some point someone will also ask why you didn't just give the perfectly clear explanation to begin with of why the docs where not filed, the BOD had to be in place. It might have saved alot of headache. Is there a reason why it could not be discolsed before? I'm only asking because others are wondering it already and I'm pretty sure you would rather address it here.
Beth
I think a lot had to do with the way questions were asked and many were asked in attack mode. I know We have been following the rules because I have asked and that was put out that we are following the rules of all this.

Plus how many times can you say we are following the rules only to get the same vague questions and attacks, there's plenty of work to do other than waste the members time answering attacks

Its like you post this past week. I loved seeing it, You said the financial look fine, you even went into how the funds flow, how there's lulls
We knew the financial were on the up and up and have said it since people have asked, we put them out to the members and non members to see them too. Its just usually no one asked but 3, 4 5 people to see them. Some others didnt really want to see them, they just wanted to question them even without seeing them. They wanted air time to discredit and start crap. But they knew it was probably no problems at all, but that doesnt help their agenda

I think you saying the financial looked fine kept many from wondering anymore, because you verified what has been said by the UAMCC team. Thanks it helped

Heck I would like to come out with answers the second they are asked, but you know, some really don't want the answers

GO UAMCC
__________________
JL Pressure Washing
Jeff LeCours
843-446-5931
www.JLpressurewashing.com
.............

sTOOL pIGEON lECOURS aNSWER I think FOR A qUSTION FOR cARLOS!!!

wHAT EVER you do leave doubt or un-accountability. That the way to do it Jeff...
 

Clean County PW

Active member
I will answer what I know are inaccurate statements that Carlos is making here and then hopefully we can all move on. Its a he said he said arguement So really if he wants to Rebutt what I saying thats fine but I really want to move on. So here we go

1-Carlos are you running this org as a "Not for Profit" and if so where are the minutes and the validations.
Answer--Carlos told may of us about a year ago that he has filed for a 501c6 and what the process is..then you read further down and I see a cancel check for Nov 4th of this year right around the time he guess the shizz was going to hit the fan.
Time Line to Apply for Exemption Status


Source: Online Media Legal Network - (OMLN) is a network of law firms, law school clinics, and individual lawyers across the United States that wish to assist those in need.

“You will want to have your tax exempt status retroactive to the date of incorporation, so that your nonprofit corporation can take advantage of the exemptions and so that any donations are tax-deductible. You have 15 months from the date of incorporation to file Form 1023, with a 12 month extension.”


Source: Provided by: Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability
440 West Jubal Early Drive, Suite 130 Winchester, VA 22601
540-535-0103 800-323-9473 Fax: 540-535-0533
www.ecfa.org information@ecfa.org

“It appears that the earliest date that a 501c may appropriately issue donation receipts is the date on which the charitable entity is legally formed. This would generally be the date the incorporation is approved by the state. The importance of the legal formation (generally the date the incorporation is approved by the state) is emphasized in the instructions for Form 1023, which state that if Form 1023 is filed within 27 months after the end of the month in which an organization is legally formed, and the IRS approves the application for tax-exempt status, the effective date of the tax-exempt status is retroactive to the legal date of formation. Therefore, it appears that only gifts received on or after the date of incorporation could be appropriately receipted for charitable donation purposes.”

**In the above cases and many more legal cases that we could choose as an example that the UAMCC is in COMPLIANT with the FULL LETTER of the reporting requirements.

Facts relating to the UAMCC and the IRS relating to Time Lines

UAMCC Incorporated in the State of Calif. 03/10/2009

We have 15 months from the date of our incorporation to FILE. This 15 month benchmark would have expired for the UAMCC on June 10, 2010. In other words in 6 months from today’s date (November 28, 2009).

Beyond that, federal law from the IRS allows us a 12 month extension beyond June 10, 2010. This of course would allow any organization seeking a tax exempt status (501c-3, 4, 5 or 6) an additional 12 months beyond the 15 month. In our case this would allow the UAMCC up until June 10, 2011 to file for an exempt status or otherwise known as a non-profit, if applicable.

Once our exempt status (501C-6) is approved it will be RETROACTIVE back to the date of our Incorporation – In our case this is 3/10/2009 **

**You will want to have your tax exempt status retroactive to the date of incorporation – source: OMLN **

**This would generally be the date the incorporation is approved by the state. The importance of the legal formation (generally the date the incorporation is approved by the state) – source: Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability

To further show the UAMCC has followed the LAW – We submit to the membership cancelled checks drawn from the UAMCC Checking account.

These checks accompanied the UAMCC application for the Internal Revenue Service and State of California Secretary of State exemption application.

IRS Forms Submitted

IRS Form 1024 – Application for Recognition of Exemption Under Section 501(a)
IRS Form 8718 – User Fee for Exempt Organization Determination Letter Request

State of California State Franchise Tax Board

California Form 3500 – Exemption Application

501c6 Application Fee CLEARED CHECK Made Out to the IRS:

IRS Forms 1024 – Application for Recognition of Exemption Under 501(a)
IRS Form 8718 – User Fee Exempt Organization Determination Letter Request

FRONT




BACK


501c6 Application Fee CLEARED CHECK Made Out to the State of California Franchise Tax Board.

California Form 3500 – Exemption Application.


FRONT













BACK


I am aware that Ron Musgraves and John Tornabane (non-members of the UAMCC) have publicly stated on The Grime Scene that they either individually or collectively have called the IRS and/or have had their attorney contact the California State Attorney Generals Office in which they seem to indicate that there is no record of the UAMCC. Yes there is some proof to this. Around 6 of us have contacted the IRS just to make sure that the UAMCC is on the up and up. What was most disturbing to the IRS is that on www.uamcc.org go to the read more and click it.. in the how much does it cost section the website states right there that the UAMCC is a non profit organization recognized by the federal Gov't. This set off the flags at the IRS division that was contacted and they suggested that we make a written request into the IRS Investigation division so they can look into that...they were not happy to hear about that. Of course none of us want to do this because we don't think we need to go there.
It is my hope that now we as members and also non-members will evaluate the merits and proof that the UAMCC has provided as the facts surrounding our exemption status verses an allege phone call made to the IRS or an attorney that has or will be contacting the State of Calif. Attorney Generals Office.

In conjunction with this, Mr. Scott Stone publicly stated on The Grime Scene that a non-profit application should be granted and/or immediately awarded by the IRS. He offered no proof to support his claim and now it is quite obvious, based on the creditable reference below that his comment(s) are without merit. This URL comes directly from the IRS Website in which it outlines the number of months that it takes to get approval. At a minimum, no one seeking exemption status should expect a response from the IRS until after 3 months after the application was received.

As of November 28, 2009
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article...156733,00.html
Where Is My Exemption Application?
“Currently, we are assigning applications received in June” **Half way down the page.




Sometimes, representatives of exempt organizations and practitioners question why certain applications for tax exemption are processed faster than others. Not all applications are the same. While many are complete when received and involve straight-forward scenarios, others may be incomplete or involve complex issues that require further development. This web page describes the application process and provides information on how to determine the status of an application.
EO Determination Application Process: Upon receipt, exemption applications accompanied by the required user fee are initially separated into four categories: (1) those that can be approved immediately based on the information submitted, (2) those that need minor additional information to be resolved, (3) those that are submitted on obsolete forms or do not include the items specified on the Procedural Checklist, and (4) those that require development.
If your application falls within one of the first three categories, you will receive either your determination letter or a request for additional information, via phone, fax, or letter, within approximately 90 days of the date the application was submitted.
If your application falls within the fourth category, you will be contacted once the application is assigned to an EO agent for further development. Because these applications may experience some “wait time” before they are assigned, we regularly publish the receipt date for applications currently being assigned, to help you track your application.

Currently, we are assigning applications received in June.
If you submitted your application after the month indicated above, continue to check this web page for updated assignment information.
If you submitted your application before the month indicated above and you have not been contacted by the IRS about your application, you may want to contact the toll-free Customer Account Services at 877-829-5500. You will need the following information when calling:
1. The name of the organization on whose behalf the request was submitted;
2. The organization's employer identification number (EIN);
3. The document locator number assigned to the request (if you have received one); and
4. A proper power of attorney submitted with the exemption application, unless you are an officer or director and legally authorized to represent the organization.
More Information: Click here for a chart illustrating the EO Determination Application process. Additional information for submitting exemption applications and requests for rulings or determination letters may be found on this website.
Click here for more Help from the IRS.


The inference that he made in which he said I purposely delayed the application process is yet again unfounded and incorrect. The UAMCC is legally well within the law with both state and federal guidelines relating to the application process.

Any reference made today to the contrary will be considered an act of slander towards the UAMCC, it’s membership, Transition Team, Executive Director and Board of Directors.

The management of the UAMCC will continue in a direction in which our expenditures will reflect the support of our mission statement. The spirit of how this organization operates, up until our exception status is approved, will continue to be in the fashion which our expenditures will be used to bring awareness to the power washing industry. Our financial statements from April through September show a clear pattern of how our revenue has been spent. It is my belief that if the UAMCC began or begun spending money in a way that does not satisfy it’s pending exemption status we would be notified by our CPA. Our CPA also has a fiscal responsibility in which he would advise the UAMCC if he felt or seen expenditures that do not run congruent with the IRS guidelines for a 501c-6 exemption. Up to this date we have not received any word of caution or questionable expenditures that would reflect badly on the UAMCC regarding our application.


2-Are you really still running this org as a "For Profit" and does that give you the right to spend our memberships money any way you like?
See my answer above.
**See answer 1


3-Did you pay yourself any money back to pay off the money you donated to this org??
This is tough to answer without going on a page about it. In a nut shell Carlos has told myself and someother that the ED will get a $50,000 salary along with 25% of the memberships money. So what this means is that almost all money the UAMCC will get over the next two years will most likely go to Carlos. IF you look at the Financials and see whats on there try to look for the 158 members money that was collected. Most likely Carlos started taking his full salary that was never ratified the day the org signed its first member. Another guess here is that within two years Carlos will leave this org with his salary and the % of the memberships money and the org will most likely be broke for it unless of course you bring in about 400+ members within that time frame. Keep this in mind...I don't think anyone has even seen his contract and thats a no no.
The short answer: NO. The money that I gave to off-set start-up expenses for the UAMCC prior to it opening its doors in Albany was done with the sole intent to ensure that the lack of money would not slow the infrastructure building process. The necessary money that I personally have put forward was something that I knew would need to happen even before the TT was assembled. I did this freely.

4-Did you hire any family members and put them on your bankroll thru the org??
This was I admit a brutal question to ask but when he lied to my wife well now I have to bring this up. I was just told by a tt member that if I seach here on this bb Carlos indeed paid his daughter out of his own pocket but now he is stating here he never paid here..........
It saddens me that this question is being asked. Never once has my family (Bettye & Madison) ever…ever received one single penny from the UAMCC. It is despicable that anyone could suggest this or even ask a question or questions along this line. My daughter helped me put labels on the convention postcards prior to her going to Church Camp. She helped maybe 5-6 days with dad in the office. I have yet to pay her yet as I told her when she finished helping I will giver the $80+ she earned for X-mas shopping.

5-Did you say on the net that you are the one who makes the decisions of who goes where and how the money for that would be spent??
Carlos when asked this question by me on this bb he did say with a resounding YES I MAKE THE DECISIONS I ALONE,,,the post was soon pulled but many already seen it.
No…I made the comment that once the team discussed the pro’s and con’s of something then a decision is made by me. Here is an example of how this works and has been working for the TT. TT members have concurred that this indeed is the procedure.

In the case of who goes to a RT ~ I ask on our weekly conference call who can attend. I have encouraged the members of the TT to attend if they can. Their schedule and availability is a heavy consideration that weighs on who goes. I do not wish for them to attend a RT if they have a big job going on or will take them away from their own business needs.

Secondly, we have tried to keep the cost factor down in which we would prefer that any flights (if needed) would not exceed $300.00 ~ $350.00 RT. There is no written policy on this but it is and has been my preference relating to establishing an “internal guide” of what we will spend.

Third. we also look at where the RT will be at and also what involvement the UAMCC will have i.a. are we speaking?, do we have a table? who from the TT best fits or is the most appropriate to attend.

Fourth – We try to factor or project the return revenue of new memberships. An example would be that if we had a room of 1000 contractors in Alaska that were ready to become members ~ the likely hood of us spending $450.00 for a plane ticket is probably pretty good because the ‘return’ investment supersedes the expenditure of sending one, two or three TT members. On the other hand, if those same contractors in Alaska were the same contractors that heard us speak in Hawaii 2 months earlier, then it would be safe to assume that the ‘return’ would not be as promising as compared to the first scenario.

I ask all TT members on our calls as a group who can make the different functions since I don't want to be the only nor should I be the only one hoping on a plane and going everywhere.This is fine except to say I never knew this when I told Carlos that my wife and I were possibly going to Texas and this is where the "LIE" started. he told us that the UAMCC is not going to be concerned about Rons RT and they have no interest in it.....There is the lie to me and my wife.

6-Did you say after you made an official announcement on the net that the major bb's will be getting an award and then say on that last board call that PWI will not get one before you asked all of us??

First of all, in the early stages of the convention committee I had asked the convention committee to allow me to handle the awards ceremony. There were people and BBS’s that I wanted to thank for their support in supporting the UAMCC from the beginning. All members of the convention committee agreed to this. This would be one opportunity for ME to publicly thank those that has helped the UAMCC. i.a. Gene Fivel, Joe Burke and many others. With that, the different BBS’s were included in that bunch.

Certainly during the early stages PWI was a candidate for that recognition. However it is pretty tough to justify giving recognition to anyone where they publicly state that they don’t support you or endorse you.

As far as asking the convention committee – it was my position that I was given the latitude to decide who would get one. Never did I think nor was I under the impression that I needed to run this by the convention committee. When I brought it up on the call as a courtesy to let the committee members know how I felt about the public statement from PWI in which they said they do not support or endorse the UAMCC – it became obvious that all the committee members understood my position except for John T.

The fact that PWI received any recognition can be credited to Jeff L. and Mathew J. They helped me navigate through this with several suggestions to remedy this. I never once received a suggestion from John…never once received a call about …”Hey Carlos …lets try this for the award….Nope…his position was that no matter what PWI has publicly stated we should follow through with the award that was mentioned months earlier.

There are many great contractors at PWI. I for once used to visit there. When any administrator puts out an official statement that their BBS does not endorse nor support the UAMCC…you tell me ….should they be given recognition at our national convention?

I would like to thank Mathew Johnson and Jeff LeCours here and now for again assisting me in finding a common ground with this situation. It is refreshing to have individuals such as yourself that bring solutions to problems. This is the biggest lie here. Matt Johnson has let it know that he hates Ron M. Jeff and I argued about the PWI should still get the award because of all the thousands of others that go to that board and at the Bar that night in Orlando Jeff said NO they aren't UAMCC supports so no award. If one was to ask Mike T. the Next VP here what happened in that board room I clearly made my case about PWI getting that award because you shouldn't punish the masses over the 6 people your mad at there. PWI as in TGS and the other bb's are great recruiting grounds to get new members. The two guys that now saw my view were Rob Huffman and I think Scott Millen. In the end I accepted the award for PWI and not the two no Carlos is giving credit to. So that is one big fat lie and I think Jeff knows that.

The fact of the matter is that the contractors at PWI did receive recognition in Orlando. Agreed after I called Carlos for about a month on this to try to get him to let control of this go because he was wrong to condemn the masses.

7-Ask Don Phelps if he PM'd me thru the UAMCC bb that the PWI is Carlos's decision and there is nothing I can do about that?
That is a fact. No further explanation there. You should also asked Don Phelps what he said to me when he slammed down his phone.
**See Answer #6**

8-Ask Carlos was he running this org like he is the president when he is also the ED?
I'll come back to this
Today I am the Executive Director and was appointed this by the Transition Team soon after Albany NY. Again, the TT team and I discuss the affairs of the UAMCC as a group. I know I am repeating myself here but the UAMCC TT and I work on UAMCC matters collectively and as a group. There is no President position in the UAMCC today until January 1, 2009. Ask Carlos what his contract is..I pretty much stated it above from what he told us.

9-Ask Carlos did he set aside the 20% for each regional??
On my very last Committee call Carlos in a panick when I asked this question said they have to retype that and will discuss this at a latter date. Ask Rub H, Done P or Jeff L who were on that call if that is indeed what happened.
This was brought up on the very first UAMCC membership conference call back in May. I brought up the allocation of the 20% to the regions on this call. I said that I would like to start allocating $ to the regions. Rick Petry, UAMCC Contractor Member, brought up several terrific points that doing this certainly is the end goal but doing it now due to the fact that the regions are not even set up nor did we have the contractor sign-ups to even “fill-in” the regions seemed too soon for such a young association that just opened up it’s door no more than 30 days ago. The tone of the conversation from the members on that call eluded that the UAMCC still needed to allocate membership dollars towards getting more member through marketing, appearances, website, google and etc.

The UAMCC is committed to follow through on the proposed allocation once the regional policies are endorsed by the BOD’s.

I will again state that I brought this up on the very first conference call in which I suggested we allocate the 20%. I thank Rick and the many others on the call for throwing the “speed bumps” in front of the UAMCC during that call in which the membership at that time felt the UAMCC still needed to keep the allocations going towards creating the awareness about the UAMCC..

Let it be known here we were told on my very last board of elect call to have this 5 yr planned read which I did. Then on the call I ask Carlos that Question and he tables it immediately. Ask the other Bod elects if that is true.

I asked all the BOD’s to have the 5 years business plan read. That was the agenda…to make sure that all of the BOD Elects had the 5 years business plan read…nothing more. The reason behind this is that the 5 years plan is our blueprint and the BOD’s will be instrumental in assisting the membership to navigate the UAMCC to achieve its goals. I wanted to ensure that ALL BOD’s read it. I am thankful that John did read it. I also find it utterly interesting that a question about the 20% regional allocation is broached now when that was discussed and resolved on the very first membership conference call. Its nice that Carlos finally gave me a compliment above which I think may be the only one I got from him here but he did tell us to know the 5 yr plan like the back of our hand so I studied it and asked him that homerun of a question and he damn near stutters and then tables it as stated above.

**I specifically brought Rick Petry’s name up here as he was the one that brought up some of the points that I referenced above. Rick, please so advice whether or not my interpretation is correct.** Thank you sir!

10- Ask Carlos if Rob and I told him about Jeff getting to excited and announcing news to soon on the net without the Chairs blessings?

The question is pretty vague in itself. I guess the question here is did Rob as the Chair call Jeff directly and ask him to refrain from announcing stuff? Certainly one in this position has the right to call a member of a committee to broach a concern. Jeff and Carlos both responded be emails that there were sorry that protocol has been broken and it wont happen again. Another words they want jump above the Chair again...so we thought.

11- Ask Carlos is he the one who gets to make the calls on Question 10??
No doubt this is what happened. Forget the others for a second and go right to the top the Convention chair and ask him.Don't ask the ones who want to fall in line under Carlos ever tightening control grip.
This is very vague and I can’t connect the dots on this one but I will try. Am I being asked did I make all the decisions on the convention stuff? Maybe the other members of the Convention Committee can chime in and address how things were handled relating to the convention.

The one thing that I do regret doing is adding the Skid Sponsorship without first running it by the entire convention committee. It was a mistake at that time to not broach this. I immediately called up all the members and apologized for this and gave them my assurance that it would not happened again. Yes he popped his cork about this and just gave away our biggest news...oopps...also it turns out the winner is a contractor that is also a HYDROTEK DISTRIBUTER how does that make you feel. This is uppermanagment screw up and hey wait who is upper managament---CARLOS!!!
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Of course – the skid sponsorship worked to our favor because no sooner we announced the sponsorship opportunity – HydroTek contacted the UAMCC inquiring about this. At the end it worked out to our advantage.

12- Ask Carlos if he is the one who picked the ones who served on the finance committee and were there backgrounds clean enough to do this?? Ask him were there anyone serving there ever convicted of any Felonies?

Did I hand pick the Finance Committee? No. Again this was determined and agreed upon as a group. The UAMCC Finance Committee role was not one of approving or disapproving budgets or allocating money to a “secret slush fund”. The UAMCC Finance Committee was a committee that there sole purpose was to evaluate the costs of several things relating to our infrastructure. Several examples I could give is that they were in charge of establishing a marketing budget (online and offline), Directory submission costs, website creation, hosting cost, SEO writing and many more. Their job was to go out and find the best cost for the UAMCC relating to our infrastructure. There role as members of the Finance Committee did not fall on the traditional sense of what a Finance Committee usually does. Beyond that, they were empowered to speak amongst themselves for the sole purpose of bringing suggestions and cost ratios to the team and myself so that we can get the most ‘bang for our buck’.

WOW bad line in there. Carlos made it up on his own about what the Finance committee does. Ouch that would be a stinger in court...but like I said nobody I know wants to go there.

To suggest that a investigation into their background was needed for them to do the above taks would seem to me an over kill based on their responsibilities on the Finance Committee. As far as anyone having a felony, I never have been brought any creditable information that this was ever the case. Regardless of anyone of the TT past, I am proud and honored to have had them working with the UAMCC. Jeff L., Ken F., Terry M. Rob H., Michael K., David V. & Scott M. have all worked very hard and with me and the UAMCC. During their time as TT members I never once had any regret having anyone of them aboard. They were and are a great team and the success of the UAMCC can be attributed to their efforts and sacrifices they each have made.
I was asked numerous times to do back ground checks on these guys but they never hurt me and I didn't believe most of the stories I heard. So I don't believe that it was my responsibility at all to check these guys. Now in Carlos's case since he appointed most of these guys he would have been wised to check the Financial Committee guys because of the delicate matter there job is. If anyone who may have had a record that looks bad then they should have gracefully turned it down which would have been the honorable thing to do then potentially put the whole org. at risk.
13- Ask Carlos is he a Power washer or a Landscaper and what exactly is his deal there since we all know that John Tornabene has been a cop for over 22 years and a powerwasher another 15 years??

Right now I am neither…I am the Executive Director of the UAMCC. Prior to me starting the UAMCC back in 2008, I was both in the washing and landscaping business.
Another big problem here. It may be in the bylaws but I do recall that when the TT members where picked there qualifications were they had to be a Powerwashing Contractor. This was a Big Mickeal Kriesle point and I tip my hat to him to make this become a rule....So who breaks that Rule?? CARLOS. He was neither from what it looks like any type of contractor when I first got involved with this org. Remember back then there were no TT's at first. So at that point Carlos is saying he had no job. So what happens Carlos ends up as the head TT as per the website. Clear Violation of the bylaws if I understood that correctly.

14-Ask Carlos why he didn't take mine and Robs complaints serious before the Convention ever began??

I will need to ask that this question be more specific. Are you suggesting supposedly complaints about Jeff?
The complaints were about Jeff and Carlos continously breaking Committee Protocol. Jeff now I would give a free pass because the head TT Carlos never thought he did nothing wrong but Carlos instead just sent me and ROB emails that there sorry and it wont happen again just to shut us up

15-Ask Carlos as time went by why was it no longer "We said" but instead his responses became "I said".Every other word out of Carlos mouth started to become I I I. example I pick all the award winners, I decide if PWI will no longer get the award, I pick and chose who goes where(As I stated above) etc etc etc.

If this is about the TT (old and new) then I will need to default to them. There is nothing better than to get it from the folks that worked with me. Terry, Ken, Michael, Scott, Scott S., Rob H, Jeff L., David V. ~ guys I ask you to chime in and offer your take on the question above.

If this is about the Convention…then I would default to Jeff and Don for their honest and candid response.Once again Carlos does not want anyone to go the guy above those two who was teh Convntion Chair Rob Huffman. Something really wrong with that.

16-Ask Carlos why the BOD was not put into place sooner along with the Oversight Committee??

The appointment of the BOD and Oversight Committee early on was always scheduled to be put in place at the first of the year. This is no secret and this decision was made even before the election of the BOD’s took place. Logically it seemed to be the right time to do this as this is when our FY would begin.

Beyond the question above, I offered to all the BOD candidates (before the voting) to attend the weekly TT conference calls that are held every Monday. The reason behind that was that I wanted to afford each candidate a “birds eye view” so that whoever was elected they would be “up to speed” on UAMCC affairs prior to January 1st when they would be seated. Theoretically this was set up (attending calls prior to January 1st) in which they would have the opportunity to get to know their fellow BOD’s. A tremendous twist of the truth. This is all about Control and without these guys in place it continously gave the man who was supposed to be working for the org..the supreme power to move the money in the bank as he so desires. See once again above.


17-Ask Carlos if he was bad mouthing Rob to me and me telling him if you think Rob is doing a bad job then tell him instead of letting people jump over him?? For the Record everyone and I mean everyone said the Convention was excellent and Rob did a great Job!!

Did I have concerns about Rob early on when this call took place? Sure I did. I felt that Rob was not engaging enough with the Convention Committee. Did I bad mouth him? If saying that I felt he was not doing enough is bad mouthing than yes I did say that. I did voice my concerns to John. I told John that I felt Rob was not doing enough as the Chair. I spoke to Rob right before he resigned as a BOD candidate and as a TT member as he called me to ask me the same question. My response to Rob was whether or not he was perfect in his duties?….I said no. I also said that what I did was not perfect. Was Jeff perfect in his duties?…NO…Was Don P. perfect? …NO. The bottom line was Carlos wanted Rob out but he didnt have the you know whats to do it so he tried to get me and Jeff to do his dirty work. Re-read his sentence and you can see what I am saying and nobody is talking about doing a perfect job but a super Controling individual uses those type unattainable terms. The Whole Committee in the end even though we had some problems we over came it and we came thru in a big way as all saw for themselves who went and heard about it. Great job to those guys and I was proud to have served there even though we didn't perform to Carlos's perfect standards.

The convention was a success. Rob and everyone on the convention committee should be proud of what was accomplished. The old phrase “There is no “I” in the word TEAM” comes to mind as I type this.

18-Ask Carlos for all the minutes and meetings that were properly documented thru minutes and who validated them??

The UAMCC has a record of every single individual that has attended a conference call. From our TT meetings every Monday all the way to our Monthly Membership meetings.

We have a UAMCC Behind The Scenes forum that we have and had utilized for continued discussions relating to matters that we felt needed more discussion and/or follow up.
In a not for profit since membership money is going to be spent you want a paper trail to CYA. and of course no one ever saw this when money decisions were made. Ask any of them and see if they can tell you otherwise and also ask any of the TT members if they ever saw Carlos's most likely pretty fat contract with the UAMCC. Remember I am repeationg what he told me about how much the ED will get paid if the money is there.

19- Ask Carlos when one Ron Musgraves was thrown out who voted on it and once again was there minutes and were they validated to make it legally binding?
Ask Ron this and you will be floored with the evidence that he has.
We have emails and verbal confirmation from all the TT members that all were in agreement with. The only exception to the emails is that David V. responded to me by phone in which he concurred with the majority. **David if this is not the case (you calling and rendering your opinion) please let the members know here. Thank you sir:


20- Ask Carlos was Ron given the right thru "Due Process" if he was given a forum to state his case which is the way most org's do.

We certainly did. When Ron was originally banned from the UAMCC BBS this email was sent to him:

ASK RON
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
To: ronmusgraves@nationalcleaningexpo.com
Cc: jl9055@sccoast.net; scott@stainlessdeal.com; michael@firstchoicepowerwashing.com; aplus_pressurewashing@yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 8:36 pm
Subject: Recap of our phone conversation
Ron,

As promised I am emailing you as I agreed to do on the call we had on 8/4/09.

As you know you have been banned at the UAMCC BBS for conduct that was inappropriate as a member of the UAMCC. You took confidential information from the private section and shared it with non-members of the UAMCC. Whether it was done on purpose or accident still does not correct what was wrong.

In conjunction with this, you deliberately put the UAMCC in a very bad light with untrue and unfounded accusations about the UAMCC. You purposely singled out Jeff LeCours, owner of J.L. Pressure Washing and a member of the UAMCC Transition Team. We can only surmise that this was a direct retaliation revolving the banning of you from the BBS in the first place.

You put in writing that you formally resigned as a member of the UAMCC if the UAMCC did not do one of two things:

1. Put your banner up on the UAMCC BBS

2. Refund your money

Though I did not speak much to these two points on the phone call but I find it hard to see how you feel you can dictate and/or put an ultimatum to the UAMCC relating to your membership status? The above two points are not an option. The Transition Team spoke on this days before my call with you and the overwhelming vote was that the above 2 points are not an option.

You told me that you do not want to be part of the UAMCC as a member as you do not "like what you see' and that maybe after some time off that you would reconsider joining.

The idea of allowing a employee/representative from NCE take your place is an idea or suggestion you broach. Please explain how by doing this will eliminate the problem that we recently experienced with NCE. Once we hear back from you relating to this email I will bring this back to the transition team for final action.

Your ban status for the UAMCC BBS will remain in effect until a final decision has been rendered.

In closing I will reiterate that points 1 and 2 above will not be reconsidered as an option relating to the status of your membership.
Do the right thing here and don't just take his money..how bad does that look for you all??? It looks like there is something not right there dont ya think?
Thank you for your time on the phone. Please respond back to this email by August 17th. Should you not respond prior to the deadline the UAMCC will still make a final decision. When emailing back to the UAMCC please also include the distribution list above. In other words do not just send me the email. Thank you.

Regards,

As you can see I think I painted a clear picture so its up to you all to decide for yourself. I'm done with this and yes I don't believe or trust Carlos anymore and I am sorry that it looks like I donated my money straight to his pocket because he was NOT a 501 nothing. My bad and I hope some of you others learn from my tremendous mistake. You must decide on your own. And no I am not going to report any of this. Where big boys and we should all make our own decisions that benefit us, our business and most of all our families.

Good Luck.

John Tornabene
Carlos Gonzales
United Association of Mobile Contract Cleaners
UAMCC
5055 Business Center Drive
Suite 108 ~ #225
Fairfield, CA 94534
Toll Free: 1-800-816-3240
Mobile: 707-812-3702
www.uamcc.org
www.uamcc.org/forum
www.pressurewashingnews.com

This is Ron response to our email above:

From:
mus1961@aol.com Hide
Add to: To Do, Calendar
To:
newlookpowerwash@aol.com
Date:
Thu, Aug 6, 2009 8:43 am


Just send the refund promised, keep me banned for life . I dont care...

21. Ask Carlos again how was he acting like the president and also the ED at the same time and also ask to see once again the minutes and if they were validated to see if he was legally picked for this supposed not for Profit org.

No one picked me to start the UAMCC. I started this on my own. I put the necessary capital of my own money to establish the UAMCC. I invested close to 2 years of my life (full time) towards the UAMCC. I don’t throw around on the BBS what I have done. This isn’t about me but when questions start alluding to the fact that I needed to be picked by someone in which I needed to have minutes for me to give freely between $16,000 - $20,000 of my own money and 22 months of my life to ensure the UAMCC has a better than average chance of “making it!

22-Ask Carlos if this is a smoke and mirror org where he has us members think its running as a for profit org and if he is running it for a profit org then why are the TT members Volunteers?? Are the TT members being fooled also??

**See Answer 1**

23- Lastly ask Carlos for the Financial's now and not next week?

The financials through September are and have been made available.
 

Clean County PW

Active member
This is all color coded on the UMACC general area to rebut Carlos's answers so its easier to read. Sorry but I couldn't color code it here without typing the whole thing over. Ether way I"m guess there going to delete my response there anyway.


Today, 01:38 AM <!-- / status icon and date -->

<HR>
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<!-- message -->I will answer what I know are inaccurate statements that Carlos is making here and then hopefully we can all move on. Its a he said he said arguement So really if he wants to Rebutt what I saying thats fine but I really want to move on. So here we go
1-Carlos are you running this org as a "Not for Profit" and if so where are the minutes and the validations.
Answer--Carlos told may of us about a year ago that he has filed for a 501c6 and what the process is..then you read further down and I see a cancel check for Nov 4th of this year right around the time he guess the shizz was going to hit the fan.
Time Line to Apply for Exemption Status


Source: Online Media Legal Network - (OMLN) is a network of law firms, law school clinics, and individual lawyers across the United States that wish to assist those in need.

“You will want to have your tax exempt status retroactive to the date of incorporation, so that your nonprofit corporation can take advantage of the exemptions and so that any donations are tax-deductible. You have 15 months from the date of incorporation to file Form 1023, with a 12 month extension.”


Source: Provided by: Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability
440 West Jubal Early Drive, Suite 130 Winchester, VA 22601
540-535-0103 800-323-9473 Fax: 540-535-0533
www.ecfa.org information@ecfa.org

“It appears that the earliest date that a 501c may appropriately issue donation receipts is the date on which the charitable entity is legally formed. This would generally be the date the incorporation is approved by the state. The importance of the legal formation (generally the date the incorporation is approved by the state) is emphasized in the instructions for Form 1023, which state that if Form 1023 is filed within 27 months after the end of the month in which an organization is legally formed, and the IRS approves the application for tax-exempt status, the effective date of the tax-exempt status is retroactive to the legal date of formation. Therefore, it appears that only gifts received on or after the date of incorporation could be appropriately receipted for charitable donation purposes.”

**In the above cases and many more legal cases that we could choose as an example that the UAMCC is in COMPLIANT with the FULL LETTER of the reporting requirements.

Facts relating to the UAMCC and the IRS relating to Time Lines

UAMCC Incorporated in the State of Calif. 03/10/2009

We have 15 months from the date of our incorporation to FILE. This 15 month benchmark would have expired for the UAMCC on June 10, 2010. In other words in 6 months from today’s date (November 28, 2009).

Beyond that, federal law from the IRS allows us a 12 month extension beyond June 10, 2010. This of course would allow any organization seeking a tax exempt status (501c-3, 4, 5 or 6) an additional 12 months beyond the 15 month. In our case this would allow the UAMCC up until June 10, 2011 to file for an exempt status or otherwise known as a non-profit, if applicable.

Once our exempt status (501C-6) is approved it will be RETROACTIVE back to the date of our Incorporation – In our case this is 3/10/2009 **

**You will want to have your tax exempt status retroactive to the date of incorporation – source: OMLN **

**This would generally be the date the incorporation is approved by the state. The importance of the legal formation (generally the date the incorporation is approved by the state) – source: Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability

To further show the UAMCC has followed the LAW – We submit to the membership cancelled checks drawn from the UAMCC Checking account.

These checks accompanied the UAMCC application for the Internal Revenue Service and State of California Secretary of State exemption application.

IRS Forms Submitted

IRS Form 1024 – Application for Recognition of Exemption Under Section 501(a)
IRS Form 8718 – User Fee for Exempt Organization Determination Letter Request

State of California State Franchise Tax Board

California Form 3500 – Exemption Application

501c6 Application Fee CLEARED CHECK Made Out to the IRS:

IRS Forms 1024 – Application for Recognition of Exemption Under 501(a)
IRS Form 8718 – User Fee Exempt Organization Determination Letter Request

FRONT




BACK


501c6 Application Fee CLEARED CHECK Made Out to the State of California Franchise Tax Board.

California Form 3500 – Exemption Application.


FRONT













BACK


I am aware that Ron Musgraves and John Tornabane (non-members of the UAMCC) have publicly stated on The Grime Scene that they either individually or collectively have called the IRS and/or have had their attorney contact the California State Attorney Generals Office in which they seem to indicate that there is no record of the UAMCC. Yes there is some proof to this. Around 6 of us have contacted the IRS just to make sure that the UAMCC is on the up and up. What was most disturbing to the IRS is that on www.uamcc.org go to the read more and click it.. in the how much does it cost section the website states right there that the UAMCC is a non profit organization recognized by the federal Gov't. This set off the flags at the IRS division that was contacted and they suggested that we make a written request into the IRS Investigation division so they can look into that...they were not happy to hear about that. Of course none of us want to do this because we don't think we need to go there.
It is my hope that now we as members and also non-members will evaluate the merits and proof that the UAMCC has provided as the facts surrounding our exemption status verses an allege phone call made to the IRS or an attorney that has or will be contacting the State of Calif. Attorney Generals Office.

In conjunction with this, Mr. Scott Stone publicly stated on The Grime Scene that a non-profit application should be granted and/or immediately awarded by the IRS. He offered no proof to support his claim and now it is quite obvious, based on the creditable reference below that his comment(s) are without merit. This URL comes directly from the IRS Website in which it outlines the number of months that it takes to get approval. At a minimum, no one seeking exemption status should expect a response from the IRS until after 3 months after the application was received.

As of November 28, 2009
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article...156733,00.html
Where Is My Exemption Application?
“Currently, we are assigning applications received in June” **Half way down the page.




Sometimes, representatives of exempt organizations and practitioners question why certain applications for tax exemption are processed faster than others. Not all applications are the same. While many are complete when received and involve straight-forward scenarios, others may be incomplete or involve complex issues that require further development. This web page describes the application process and provides information on how to determine the status of an application.
EO Determination Application Process: Upon receipt, exemption applications accompanied by the required user fee are initially separated into four categories: (1) those that can be approved immediately based on the information submitted, (2) those that need minor additional information to be resolved, (3) those that are submitted on obsolete forms or do not include the items specified on the Procedural Checklist, and (4) those that require development.
If your application falls within one of the first three categories, you will receive either your determination letter or a request for additional information, via phone, fax, or letter, within approximately 90 days of the date the application was submitted.
If your application falls within the fourth category, you will be contacted once the application is assigned to an EO agent for further development. Because these applications may experience some “wait time” before they are assigned, we regularly publish the receipt date for applications currently being assigned, to help you track your application.

Currently, we are assigning applications received in June.
If you submitted your application after the month indicated above, continue to check this web page for updated assignment information.
If you submitted your application before the month indicated above and you have not been contacted by the IRS about your application, you may want to contact the toll-free Customer Account Services at 877-829-5500. You will need the following information when calling:
1. The name of the organization on whose behalf the request was submitted;
2. The organization's employer identification number (EIN);
3. The document locator number assigned to the request (if you have received one); and
4. A proper power of attorney submitted with the exemption application, unless you are an officer or director and legally authorized to represent the organization.
More Information: Click here for a chart illustrating the EO Determination Application process. Additional information for submitting exemption applications and requests for rulings or determination letters may be found on this website.
Click here for more Help from the IRS.


The inference that he made in which he said I purposely delayed the application process is yet again unfounded and incorrect. The UAMCC is legally well within the law with both state and federal guidelines relating to the application process.

Any reference made today to the contrary will be considered an act of slander towards the UAMCC, it’s membership, Transition Team, Executive Director and Board of Directors.

The management of the UAMCC will continue in a direction in which our expenditures will reflect the support of our mission statement. The spirit of how this organization operates, up until our exception status is approved, will continue to be in the fashion which our expenditures will be used to bring awareness to the power washing industry. Our financial statements from April through September show a clear pattern of how our revenue has been spent. It is my belief that if the UAMCC began or begun spending money in a way that does not satisfy it’s pending exemption status we would be notified by our CPA. Our CPA also has a fiscal responsibility in which he would advise the UAMCC if he felt or seen expenditures that do not run congruent with the IRS guidelines for a 501c-6 exemption. Up to this date we have not received any word of caution or questionable expenditures that would reflect badly on the UAMCC regarding our application.


2-Are you really still running this org as a "For Profit" and does that give you the right to spend our memberships money any way you like?
See my answer above.
**See answer 1


3-Did you pay yourself any money back to pay off the money you donated to this org??
This is tough to answer without going on a page about it. In a nut shell Carlos has told myself and someother that the ED will get a $50,000 salary along with 25% of the memberships money. So what this means is that almost all money the UAMCC will get over the next two years will most likely go to Carlos. IF you look at the Financials and see whats on there try to look for the 158 members money that was collected. Most likely Carlos started taking his full salary that was never ratified the day the org signed its first member. Another guess here is that within two years Carlos will leave this org with his salary and the % of the memberships money and the org will most likely be broke for it unless of course you bring in about 400+ members within that time frame. Keep this in mind...I don't think anyone has even seen his contract and thats a no no.
The short answer: NO. The money that I gave to off-set start-up expenses for the UAMCC prior to it opening its doors in Albany was done with the sole intent to ensure that the lack of money would not slow the infrastructure building process. The necessary money that I personally have put forward was something that I knew would need to happen even before the TT was assembled. I did this freely.

4-Did you hire any family members and put them on your bankroll thru the org??
This was I admit a brutal question to ask but when he lied to my wife well now I have to bring this up. I was just told by a tt member that if I seach here on this bb Carlos indeed paid his daughter out of his own pocket but now he is stating here he never paid here..........
It saddens me that this question is being asked. Never once has my family (Bettye & Madison) ever…ever received one single penny from the UAMCC. It is despicable that anyone could suggest this or even ask a question or questions along this line. My daughter helped me put labels on the convention postcards prior to her going to Church Camp. She helped maybe 5-6 days with dad in the office. I have yet to pay her yet as I told her when she finished helping I will giver the $80+ she earned for X-mas shopping.

5-Did you say on the net that you are the one who makes the decisions of who goes where and how the money for that would be spent??
Carlos when asked this question by me on this bb he did say with a resounding YES I MAKE THE DECISIONS I ALONE,,,the post was soon pulled but many already seen it.
No…I made the comment that once the team discussed the pro’s and con’s of something then a decision is made by me. Here is an example of how this works and has been working for the TT. TT members have concurred that this indeed is the procedure.

In the case of who goes to a RT ~ I ask on our weekly conference call who can attend. I have encouraged the members of the TT to attend if they can. Their schedule and availability is a heavy consideration that weighs on who goes. I do not wish for them to attend a RT if they have a big job going on or will take them away from their own business needs.

Secondly, we have tried to keep the cost factor down in which we would prefer that any flights (if needed) would not exceed $300.00 ~ $350.00 RT. There is no written policy on this but it is and has been my preference relating to establishing an “internal guide” of what we will spend.

Third. we also look at where the RT will be at and also what involvement the UAMCC will have i.a. are we speaking?, do we have a table? who from the TT best fits or is the most appropriate to attend.

Fourth – We try to factor or project the return revenue of new memberships. An example would be that if we had a room of 1000 contractors in Alaska that were ready to become members ~ the likely hood of us spending $450.00 for a plane ticket is probably pretty good because the ‘return’ investment supersedes the expenditure of sending one, two or three TT members. On the other hand, if those same contractors in Alaska were the same contractors that heard us speak in Hawaii 2 months earlier, then it would be safe to assume that the ‘return’ would not be as promising as compared to the first scenario.

I ask all TT members on our calls as a group who can make the different functions since I don't want to be the only nor should I be the only one hoping on a plane and going everywhere.This is fine except to say I never knew this when I told Carlos that my wife and I were possibly going to Texas and this is where the "LIE" started. he told us that the UAMCC is not going to be concerned about Rons RT and they have no interest in it.....There is the lie to me and my wife.

6-Did you say after you made an official announcement on the net that the major bb's will be getting an award and then say on that last board call that PWI will not get one before you asked all of us??

First of all, in the early stages of the convention committee I had asked the convention committee to allow me to handle the awards ceremony. There were people and BBS’s that I wanted to thank for their support in supporting the UAMCC from the beginning. All members of the convention committee agreed to this. This would be one opportunity for ME to publicly thank those that has helped the UAMCC. i.a. Gene Fivel, Joe Burke and many others. With that, the different BBS’s were included in that bunch.

Certainly during the early stages PWI was a candidate for that recognition. However it is pretty tough to justify giving recognition to anyone where they publicly state that they don’t support you or endorse you.

As far as asking the convention committee – it was my position that I was given the latitude to decide who would get one. Never did I think nor was I under the impression that I needed to run this by the convention committee. When I brought it up on the call as a courtesy to let the committee members know how I felt about the public statement from PWI in which they said they do not support or endorse the UAMCC – it became obvious that all the committee members understood my position except for John T.

The fact that PWI received any recognition can be credited to Jeff L. and Mathew J. They helped me navigate through this with several suggestions to remedy this. I never once received a suggestion from John…never once received a call about …”Hey Carlos …lets try this for the award….Nope…his position was that no matter what PWI has publicly stated we should follow through with the award that was mentioned months earlier.

There are many great contractors at PWI. I for once used to visit there. When any administrator puts out an official statement that their BBS does not endorse nor support the UAMCC…you tell me ….should they be given recognition at our national convention?

I would like to thank Mathew Johnson and Jeff LeCours here and now for again assisting me in finding a common ground with this situation. It is refreshing to have individuals such as yourself that bring solutions to problems. This is the biggest lie here. Matt Johnson has let it know that he hates Ron M. Jeff and I argued about the PWI should still get the award because of all the thousands of others that go to that board and at the Bar that night in Orlando Jeff said NO they aren't UAMCC supports so no award. If one was to ask Mike T. the Next VP here what happened in that board room I clearly made my case about PWI getting that award because you shouldn't punish the masses over the 6 people your mad at there. PWI as in TGS and the other bb's are great recruiting grounds to get new members. The two guys that now saw my view were Rob Huffman and I think Scott Millen. In the end I accepted the award for PWI and not the two no Carlos is giving credit to. So that is one big fat lie and I think Jeff knows that.

The fact of the matter is that the contractors at PWI did receive recognition in Orlando. Agreed after I called Carlos for about a month on this to try to get him to let control of this go because he was wrong to condemn the masses.

7-Ask Don Phelps if he PM'd me thru the UAMCC bb that the PWI is Carlos's decision and there is nothing I can do about that?
That is a fact. No further explanation there. You should also asked Don Phelps what he said to me when he slammed down his phone.
**See Answer #6**

8-Ask Carlos was he running this org like he is the president when he is also the ED?
I'll come back to this
Today I am the Executive Director and was appointed this by the Transition Team soon after Albany NY. Again, the TT team and I discuss the affairs of the UAMCC as a group. I know I am repeating myself here but the UAMCC TT and I work on UAMCC matters collectively and as a group. There is no President position in the UAMCC today until January 1, 2009. Ask Carlos what his contract is..I pretty much stated it above from what he told us.

9-Ask Carlos did he set aside the 20% for each regional??
On my very last Committee call Carlos in a panick when I asked this question said they have to retype that and will discuss this at a latter date. Ask Rub H, Done P or Jeff L who were on that call if that is indeed what happened.
This was brought up on the very first UAMCC membership conference call back in May. I brought up the allocation of the 20% to the regions on this call. I said that I would like to start allocating $ to the regions. Rick Petry, UAMCC Contractor Member, brought up several terrific points that doing this certainly is the end goal but doing it now due to the fact that the regions are not even set up nor did we have the contractor sign-ups to even “fill-in” the regions seemed too soon for such a young association that just opened up it’s door no more than 30 days ago. The tone of the conversation from the members on that call eluded that the UAMCC still needed to allocate membership dollars towards getting more member through marketing, appearances, website, google and etc.

The UAMCC is committed to follow through on the proposed allocation once the regional policies are endorsed by the BOD’s.

I will again state that I brought this up on the very first conference call in which I suggested we allocate the 20%. I thank Rick and the many others on the call for throwing the “speed bumps” in front of the UAMCC during that call in which the membership at that time felt the UAMCC still needed to keep the allocations going towards creating the awareness about the UAMCC..

Let it be known here we were told on my very last board of elect call to have this 5 yr planned read which I did. Then on the call I ask Carlos that Question and he tables it immediately. Ask the other Bod elects if that is true.

I asked all the BOD’s to have the 5 years business plan read. That was the agenda…to make sure that all of the BOD Elects had the 5 years business plan read…nothing more. The reason behind this is that the 5 years plan is our blueprint and the BOD’s will be instrumental in assisting the membership to navigate the UAMCC to achieve its goals. I wanted to ensure that ALL BOD’s read it. I am thankful that John did read it. I also find it utterly interesting that a question about the 20% regional allocation is broached now when that was discussed and resolved on the very first membership conference call. Its nice that Carlos finally gave me a compliment above which I think may be the only one I got from him here but he did tell us to know the 5 yr plan like the back of our hand so I studied it and asked him that homerun of a question and he damn near stutters and then tables it as stated above.

**I specifically brought Rick Petry’s name up here as he was the one that brought up some of the points that I referenced above. Rick, please so advice whether or not my interpretation is correct.** Thank you sir!

10- Ask Carlos if Rob and I told him about Jeff getting to excited and announcing news to soon on the net without the Chairs blessings?

The question is pretty vague in itself. I guess the question here is did Rob as the Chair call Jeff directly and ask him to refrain from announcing stuff? Certainly one in this position has the right to call a member of a committee to broach a concern. Jeff and Carlos both responded be emails that there were sorry that protocol has been broken and it wont happen again. Another words they want jump above the Chair again...so we thought.

11- Ask Carlos is he the one who gets to make the calls on Question 10??
No doubt this is what happened. Forget the others for a second and go right to the top the Convention chair and ask him.Don't ask the ones who want to fall in line under Carlos ever tightening control grip.
This is very vague and I can’t connect the dots on this one but I will try. Am I being asked did I make all the decisions on the convention stuff? Maybe the other members of the Convention Committee can chime in and address how things were handled relating to the convention.

The one thing that I do regret doing is adding the Skid Sponsorship without first running it by the entire convention committee. It was a mistake at that time to not broach this. I immediately called up all the members and apologized for this and gave them my assurance that it would not happened again. Yes he popped his cork about this and just gave away our biggest news...oopps...also it turns out the winner is a contractor that is also a HYDROTEK DISTRIBUTER how does that make you feel. This is uppermanagment screw up and hey wait who is upper managament---CARLOS!!!
.
Of course – the skid sponsorship worked to our favor because no sooner we announced the sponsorship opportunity – HydroTek contacted the UAMCC inquiring about this. At the end it worked out to our advantage.

12- Ask Carlos if he is the one who picked the ones who served on the finance committee and were there backgrounds clean enough to do this?? Ask him were there anyone serving there ever convicted of any Felonies?

Did I hand pick the Finance Committee? No. Again this was determined and agreed upon as a group. The UAMCC Finance Committee role was not one of approving or disapproving budgets or allocating money to a “secret slush fund”. The UAMCC Finance Committee was a committee that there sole purpose was to evaluate the costs of several things relating to our infrastructure. Several examples I could give is that they were in charge of establishing a marketing budget (online and offline), Directory submission costs, website creation, hosting cost, <ACRONYM title="Search Engine Optimization">SEO</ACRONYM> writing and many more. Their job was to go out and find the best cost for the UAMCC relating to our infrastructure. There role as members of the Finance Committee did not fall on the traditional sense of what a Finance Committee usually does. Beyond that, they were empowered to speak amongst themselves for the sole purpose of bringing suggestions and cost ratios to the team and myself so that we can get the most ‘bang for our buck’.
WOW bad line in there. Carlos made it up on his own about what the Finance committee does. Ouch that would be a stinger in court...but like I said nobody I know wants to go there.

To suggest that a investigation into their background was needed for them to do the above taks would seem to me an over kill based on their responsibilities on the Finance Committee. As far as anyone having a felony, I never have been brought any creditable information that this was ever the case. Regardless of anyone of the TT past, I am proud and honored to have had them working with the UAMCC. Jeff L., Ken F., Terry M. Rob H., Michael K., David V. & Scott M. have all worked very hard and with me and the UAMCC. During their time as TT members I never once had any regret having anyone of them aboard. They were and are a great team and the success of the UAMCC can be attributed to their efforts and sacrifices they each have made.
I was asked numerous times to do back ground checks on these guys but they never hurt me and I didn't believe most of the stories I heard. So I don't believe that it was my responsibility at all to check these guys. Now in Carlos's case since he appointed most of these guys he would have been wised to check the Financial Committee guys because of the delicate matter there job is. If anyone who may have had a record that looks bad then they should have gracefully turned it down which would have been the honorable thing to do then potentially put the whole org. at risk.
13- Ask Carlos is he a Power washer or a Landscaper and what exactly is his deal there since we all know that John Tornabene has been a cop for over 22 years and a powerwasher another 15 years??

Right now I am neither…I am the Executive Director of the UAMCC. Prior to me starting the UAMCC back in 2008, I was both in the washing and landscaping business.
Another big problem here. It may be in the bylaws but I do recall that when the TT members where picked there qualifications were they had to be a Powerwashing Contractor. This was a Big Mickeal Kriesle point and I tip my hat to him to make this become a rule....So who breaks that Rule?? CARLOS. He was neither from what it looks like any type of contractor when I first got involved with this org. Remember back then there were no TT's at first. So at that point Carlos is saying he had no job. So what happens Carlos ends up as the head TT as per the website. Clear Violation of the bylaws if I understood that correctly.

14-Ask Carlos why he didn't take mine and Robs complaints serious before the Convention ever began??

I will need to ask that this question be more specific. Are you suggesting supposedly complaints about Jeff?
The complaints were about Jeff and Carlos continously breaking Committee Protocol. Jeff now I would give a free pass because the head TT Carlos never thought he did nothing wrong but Carlos instead just sent me and ROB emails that there sorry and it wont happen again just to shut us up

15-Ask Carlos as time went by why was it no longer "We said" but instead his responses became "I said".Every other word out of Carlos mouth started to become I I I. example I pick all the award winners, I decide if PWI will no longer get the award, I pick and chose who goes where(As I stated above) etc etc etc.

If this is about the TT (old and new) then I will need to default to them. There is nothing better than to get it from the folks that worked with me. Terry, Ken, Michael, Scott, Scott S., Rob H, Jeff L., David V. ~ guys I ask you to chime in and offer your take on the question above.

If this is about the Convention…then I would default to Jeff and Don for their honest and candid response.Once again Carlos does not want anyone to go the guy above those two who was teh Convntion Chair Rob Huffman. Something really wrong with that.

16-Ask Carlos why the BOD was not put into place sooner along with the Oversight Committee??

The appointment of the BOD and Oversight Committee early on was always scheduled to be put in place at the first of the year. This is no secret and this decision was made even before the election of the BOD’s took place. Logically it seemed to be the right time to do this as this is when our FY would begin.

Beyond the question above, I offered to all the BOD candidates (before the voting) to attend the weekly TT conference calls that are held every Monday. The reason behind that was that I wanted to afford each candidate a “birds eye view” so that whoever was elected they would be “up to speed” on UAMCC affairs prior to January 1st when they would be seated. Theoretically this was set up (attending calls prior to January 1st) in which they would have the opportunity to get to know their fellow BOD’s. A tremendous twist of the truth. This is all about Control and without these guys in place it continously gave the man who was supposed to be working for the org..the supreme power to move the money in the bank as he so desires. See once again above.


17-Ask Carlos if he was bad mouthing Rob to me and me telling him if you think Rob is doing a bad job then tell him instead of letting people jump over him?? For the Record everyone and I mean everyone said the Convention was excellent and Rob did a great Job!!

Did I have concerns about Rob early on when this call took place? Sure I did. I felt that Rob was not engaging enough with the Convention Committee. Did I bad mouth him? If saying that I felt he was not doing enough is bad mouthing than yes I did say that. I did voice my concerns to John. I told John that I felt Rob was not doing enough as the Chair. I spoke to Rob right before he resigned as a BOD candidate and as a TT member as he called me to ask me the same question. My response to Rob was whether or not he was perfect in his duties?….I said no. I also said that what I did was not perfect. Was Jeff perfect in his duties?…NO…Was Don P. perfect? …NO. The bottom line was Carlos wanted Rob out but he didnt have the you know whats to do it so he tried to get me and Jeff to do his dirty work. Re-read his sentence and you can see what I am saying and nobody is talking about doing a perfect job but a super Controling individual uses those type unattainable terms. The Whole Committee in the end even though we had some problems we over came it and we came thru in a big way as all saw for themselves who went and heard about it. Great job to those guys and I was proud to have served there even though we didn't perform to Carlos's perfect standards.

The convention was a success. Rob and everyone on the convention committee should be proud of what was accomplished. The old phrase “There is no “I” in the word TEAM” comes to mind as I type this.

18-Ask Carlos for all the minutes and meetings that were properly documented thru minutes and who validated them??

The UAMCC has a record of every single individual that has attended a conference call. From our TT meetings every Monday all the way to our Monthly Membership meetings.

We have a UAMCC Behind The Scenes forum that we have and had utilized for continued discussions relating to matters that we felt needed more discussion and/or follow up.
In a not for profit since membership money is going to be spent you want a paper trail to CYA. and of course no one ever saw this when money decisions were made. Ask any of them and see if they can tell you otherwise and also ask any of the TT members if they ever saw Carlos's most likely pretty fat contract with the UAMCC. Remember I am repeationg what he told me about how much the ED will get paid if the money is there.

19- Ask Carlos when one Ron Musgraves was thrown out who voted on it and once again was there minutes and were they validated to make it legally binding?
Ask Ron this and you will be floored with the evidence that he has.
We have emails and verbal confirmation from all the TT members that all were in agreement with. The only exception to the emails is that David V. responded to me by phone in which he concurred with the majority. **David if this is not the case (you calling and rendering your opinion) please let the members know here. Thank you sir:


20- Ask Carlos was Ron given the right thru "Due Process" if he was given a forum to state his case which is the way most org's do.

We certainly did. When Ron was originally banned from the UAMCC BBS this email was sent to him:

ASK RON
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos
To: ronmusgraves@nationalcleaningexpo.com
Cc: jl9055@sccoast.net; scott@stainlessdeal.com; michael@firstchoicepowerwashing.com; aplus_pressurewashing@yahoo.com
Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 8:36 pm
Subject: Recap of our phone conversation
Ron,

As promised I am emailing you as I agreed to do on the call we had on 8/4/09.

As you know you have been banned at the UAMCC BBS for conduct that was inappropriate as a member of the UAMCC. You took confidential information from the private section and shared it with non-members of the UAMCC. Whether it was done on purpose or accident still does not correct what was wrong.

In conjunction with this, you deliberately put the UAMCC in a very bad light with untrue and unfounded accusations about the UAMCC. You purposely singled out Jeff LeCours, owner of J.L. Pressure Washing and a member of the UAMCC Transition Team. We can only surmise that this was a direct retaliation revolving the banning of you from the BBS in the first place.

You put in writing that you formally resigned as a member of the UAMCC if the UAMCC did not do one of two things:

1. Put your banner up on the UAMCC BBS

2. Refund your money

Though I did not speak much to these two points on the phone call but I find it hard to see how you feel you can dictate and/or put an ultimatum to the UAMCC relating to your membership status? The above two points are not an option. The Transition Team spoke on this days before my call with you and the overwhelming vote was that the above 2 points are not an option.

You told me that you do not want to be part of the UAMCC as a member as you do not "like what you see' and that maybe after some time off that you would reconsider joining.

The idea of allowing a employee/representative from NCE take your place is an idea or suggestion you broach. Please explain how by doing this will eliminate the problem that we recently experienced with NCE. Once we hear back from you relating to this email I will bring this back to the transition team for final action.

Your ban status for the UAMCC BBS will remain in effect until a final decision has been rendered.

In closing I will reiterate that points 1 and 2 above will not be reconsidered as an option relating to the status of your membership.
Do the right thing here and don't just take his money..how bad does that look for you all??? It looks like there is something not right there dont ya think?
Thank you for your time on the phone. Please respond back to this email by August 17th. Should you not respond prior to the deadline the UAMCC will still make a final decision. When emailing back to the UAMCC please also include the distribution list above. In other words do not just send me the email. Thank you.

Regards,

As you can see I think I painted a clear picture so its up to you all to decide for yourself. I'm done with this and yes I don't believe or trust Carlos anymore and I am sorry that it looks like I donated my money straight to his pocket because he was NOT a 501 nothing. My bad and I hope some of you others learn from my tremendous mistake. You must decide on your own. And no I am not going to report any of this. Where big boys and we should all make our own decisions that benefit us, our business and most of all our families.
Good Luck.
John Tornabene
Carlos Gonzales
United Association of Mobile Contract Cleaners
UAMCC
5055 Business Center Drive
Suite 108 ~ #225
Fairfield, CA 94534
Toll Free: 1-800-816-3240
Mobile: 707-812-3702
www.uamcc.org
www.uamcc.org/forum
www.pressurewashingnews.com

This is Ron response to our email above:

From:
mus1961@aol.com Hide
Add to: To Do, Calendar
To:
newlookpowerwash@aol.com
Date:
Thu, Aug 6, 2009 8:43 am


Just send the refund promised, keep me banned for life . I dont care...

21. Ask Carlos again how was he acting like the president and also the ED at the same time and also ask to see once again the minutes and if they were validated to see if he was legally picked for this supposed not for Profit org.

No one picked me to start the UAMCC. I started this on my own. I put the necessary capital of my own money to establish the UAMCC. I invested close to 2 years of my life (full time) towards the UAMCC. I don’t throw around on the BBS what I have done. This isn’t about me but when questions start alluding to the fact that I needed to be picked by someone in which I needed to have minutes for me to give freely between $16,000 - $20,000 of my own money and 22 months of my life to ensure the UAMCC has a better than average chance of “making it!

22-Ask Carlos if this is a smoke and mirror org where he has us members think its running as a for profit org and if he is running it for a profit org then why are the TT members Volunteers?? Are the TT members being fooled also??

**See Answer 1**

23- Lastly ask Carlos for the Financial's now and not next week?

The financials through September are and have been made available
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well AL when your panties get in wad next time, speak up like a man. I'm sure people are jumping through hoops to appease you at this very moment.

God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth for a reason.....:)
I am not looking or want to be appeased.

Sorry if you don't look as me being a man, If you said I was not a "Christian Man"......Now that I would take offense to !!
I am sorry if my Christianity offends you.
(sorry for off topic...but any response would be)
 

Scott Stone

New member
What happened to the whole judge not thing?

That being said, there is something in Carlos' letter that I consider a blatant lie, well, a lot of things, but this one bugs me.

He stated that he did not have any proof of anyone on the Finance committee of being convicted of a felony. One of the reasons that I left the transition team was because of that very reason. When I told Carlos' that was one of the reasons, he said that the transition team had discussed it at length, before I joined and had decided that "everyone knows" so that there was no need for disclosure. I did not know. I don't associate with that type of person because of my contracts, and I avoid every possibility of the appearance of impropriety. Associating with known Felons just looks bad. I have two brothers that I do not associate with on a regular basis, for this very reason. Then to have a known felon on the Finance committee? The answer, well, he does not write any checks.
Considering that his conviction was for financial crimes, including fraud, I would consider this a MAJOR negative for anyone even somewhat associated with the Finance committee. The with Ken's record with his stain sales, cashing the checks and not delivering the product, that would make two people on the finance committee that should not be there, in my opinion.
There are two many red flags that go up when I see this stuff.

and of course, there is the 501 filing that is causing so much consternation on those that are concerned with the people trying to represent the industry. We were told, and Ken verified it in his previous post, that the filing was done a long time ago, like last November. Ken says that he, I and other transition team members must have misunderstood. If that is the case, we were intentionally misled. Intentionally misleading someone is a lie, by the very definition.
 

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
How long will the Gonzalites keep holding hands patting each other on the back and singing "Muskrat Love" everytime another misleading answer is given?

How is someone allowed to misrespresent over and over again? Following is simply a quick search of Carlos' posts on PWI. This doesn't count all the other posts on all the other boards.



My comments in Blue :

All underlining and bolding,etc were added by me for emphasis:

Here was the question:

13- Ask Carlos is he a Power washer or a Landscaper and what exactly is his deal there since we all know that John Tornabene has been a cop for over 22 years and a powerwasher another 15 years??

Carlos answer:

Right now I am neither…I am the Executive Director of the UAMCC. Prior to me starting the UAMCC back in 2008, I was both in the washing and landscaping business.

See the smooth opening left there - "IN the washing and landscaping business". What does that mean? Did he OWN a business? Did he operate business? Was he simply an employee of a business? There were scans of checks and proof of other things in his other answers. Why is this one accepted as sufficient without some kind of proof. "I was in the washing and landscaping business" proves nothing - especially with his track record.


Posts on PWI by Carlos

8/30/2008

One of our crews just got back from Montana the week of the 11th. We are doing a resort there. Not only installing the veneer stones in the lobby but doing all the concerete install around the pool and the sidewalks. Once the construction is done then we will walk right in and do the cleaning. Depending on the timing we may sub the cleaning work out as we already have comitments in New Mexico around that time.

How many business owners who are about to give up a "seven figure" (according to Ken) or a "250k" (as told to Scott) business are sending out "crews" to Montana while preparing to move into a $50k job? Is that nuts or what? Further, which of us who have owned businesses over $250k could possibly pay their bills on a $50k salary? When I lived in California in the 80's my house payment was more than half that!

09/24/2008

Exactly. I have put some customers on a payment plan but I have not opt to offer that unless it is a last resort.
If a contractor is in a financial position to allow their customer base to pay monthly payments it does look good on your month-to-month AR report ~ especially for those that have a slow time of the year i.e. winter months. If you have a consistent cash flow in your AR all year round for your business, at lease on paper you are showing "sustained stability" on your balance sheet which is something that accountants/CPA's love to see!

Something to consider for the '09 season!!

What payment plan is this? Would this be the plan of "I'm getting ready to go out of business, so you can pay me payments now?"


10/01/2008

Great to hear Jeff...attaboy!

We are busy also. Just started a nice job in Oakland. Got 3 calls for estimates....life is good!!




Was this prior to starting the UAMCC? I thought the UAMCC was already started by this time.

12/20/2008

Usually your first instinct is the right one Russ....

I dont know Jim even though he is located not too far from my service area...

Hey Russ...you got room down in Alabama for a city slicker like me at the RT? I am thinking about coming down.

The last two weeks of 2008 and Carlos is still talking about his "service area". What business is that in reference to? the Newlook service area or the UAMCC service area?

12/12/2008

LOL....Please do so Ron ... it's all yours. Maybe I can actually get some contracts finished vs. answering cell phone calls all day long!!

What contracts are these? Contracts for the last half of December?



Ken wrote this:

......Rob, you know much of the inside information. You know that Carlos took a huge hit on his business to run this thing for what equates to $6/hr. I saw his financials from years past grossing seven figures. So we are expected to believe that this guy tanks his business and sticks in $10K+ of his own money to fleece a few grand from contractors 18 months later? Where in this world does that make any sense, Rob?

That's a good question Ken, Where in the world does that make any sense?


Scott replied with this:

.....On a different note, Carlos' may have showed you paperwork stating a million dollar business, but he told me that his business only did $250k. That right there should raise red flags.

How many questionable he-said - she-said things can come up with the SAME GUY over and over again before someone finds the common denominator? That common denominator is Carlos.


I don't have an agenda against Carlos. Go back and read my posts over the past year. I do, however, have something against having a person who constantly misrepresents purporting to represent my industry to governmental officials. How can there be any credibility with the org if the ED isn't credible?

I also find it absolutely absurd that a former "landscaper" who "subs the cleaning work out" has a "vision" to help his fellow contractors, gives up a 7 figure company, and is seen as a fit ED candidate at a CONTRACTOR for Contractor org. Would you want someone who makes decisions like that leading you into battle against the local governments?

This is so ridiculous it is making me chuckle as I think about it.

Here, you Gonzalites can hold hands and sway since your leader has so adequately answered all questions. :canoodle:

<object height="344" width="425">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yKw8j7GLSdw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" height="344" width="425"></object>
 

Tony Shelton

BS Detector, Esquire
Adding a couple of more things:

Here's more of the problem. MK steps down and says he is doing so to devote more time for his business.

There are a few of us who KNOW this is not a true statement.

Why is it that the leadership can't even leave without being honest. An honest statement could have been as easy as "I'm stepping down for personal reasons that are NOT the result of any disagreements I have with the UAMCC."

But to fabricate an inaccurate statement is just par for the course with these guys.


See, the problem isn't about I's dotted and T's crossed, with non-profit status - its about integrity and realizing that the simplest answer is always the truth!

What these guys don't understand is that false statements are inevitable. Everyone makes a mistake and makes a false statement every now and then. Sometimes one just gets caught up in a conversation and finds they've exaggerated or something without really meaning to. That is, everyone except for Carlos and the rest of the team. Amazingly they have transcended most of all other creation and have never made a false statement (according to all their answers) .
 

Scott Stone

New member
You are right, I should have stated when I stepped down the reason why. I screwed up when I agreed to say it was for personal reasons, but really, I was trying to give teh organization a breath of hope.
 

TheCleaningDoc

New member
I have been watching this charade from afar (yes this applies to both sides) as I am not privy to all the information. Here are a few of my thoughts though. I agree that no one should be told or dictated on how to run their business or price their work.

1. Most contractors can agree (William excluded LOL) that the industry needs a voice when it comes to regulation of the pressure washing industry. I said most not all so don't put words in my mouth. With that PWNA from what I understand imploded because of a few. They are still there and working but not what they once were.

2. Up comes Carlos and others and create an organization with the vision to help all in the industry. If you want to join then go ahead if not then don't. It is as simple as that. I have not seen any mention of anyone else stepping up to the plate.

3. Some say that Ron is the best person to lead something like this, that very well may be but what is going to happen when he retires? Where is the industry going to be then? I don't know enough YET to answer those but what I do see is that when he is gone from the scene my kids and grandkids will have no one speaking for them for fair regulation. I am not the one to do that and right now I don't think my kids are either.

4. I have seen it posted on the BBS before asking why a bunch of residential contractors are running such an organization? Well all I can say to that is if you don't like that then get off your rear and get involved. Sitting there and whining is like complaining about elected officials when you don't go and vote.

Whether it is the UAMCC or another org there needs to be someone that can speak out for all members. If this happens to be for all contractors then it is probably because a member was or is in your area. If you don't like what they are saying then join and get involved and change it. Run for a BOD position or ED.

How did we stop the income tax a few years back in Tennessee? We got involved and circled the capital honking our horns. They got the message and it did not pass. Airing this out in this type of stage does nothing to further the industry. All it does is make a lot of people look like a small mule. (you get the picture)

I will leave you with 3 quotes

"Action may not always bring happiness; but there is no happiness without action." - Benjamin Disraeli

"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome. " - Samuel Johnson

"It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves." - Francois De La Rochefoucauld

Have a great Christmas and New Year! 2010 Here I come.
 

Sentinel

Moderator
tony, since your an expert and in such a position of authority here please submit for my approval all of your personal and business financial records for my review and approval (including the uber brainy 800K mortgage deal you got on your 150K house)

Thank you
 

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
tony, since your an expert and in such a position of authority here please submit for my approval all of your personal and business financial records for my review and approval (including the uber brainy 800K mortgage deal you got on your 150K house)

Thank you

I agree a mans private business is his own. Carlos had his right to privacy, if and when it ever becomes a non profit then it would change. But understand we did not know this till mon.
 

welder

New member
I agree a mans private business is his own. Carlos had his right to privacy, if and when it ever becomes a non profit then it would change. But understand we did not know this till mon.

I agree, but I don't.... see, the thing is, this is still a "professional organization" that might be owned solely by whomever at this point. BUT, I have to look it up some where to confirm the following.

Any membership fees paid to a professional organization private or non profit are tax deductible as a business expense. If some thing is gained by the business, ie, education, networking, a myriad of reasons. To coin a phrase used here a time or 2, union dues are deductible.

Be it a private or non profit, it was advertised as a open book transparent corp. and it took money under those pretense. As far as I can see, if those advertisements were not met, there might be issues.

As a potential member, I would want to know how this played out.
 
This is the most sicken thing I have seen in some time I don't give a rats you know what if some one called me names big deal all this bull back in forth
I'm a member of most bbs I just had it with internet land Someone needs to grow a set and grow up get the facts straight you may not like or care for me Guess what Ill give the one finger wave and go on with my life and work with out any care.And no I'm not a member of any org. So I'm not taken any sides here just sick all the drama
 

Scott Stone

New member
Effective at 9 pm all discussion about the UAMCC will stop. Nothing negative, positive or neutral wil be allowed. This includes veiled references.. This also includes Ron. I am tired of it. Those that want to believe in the UAMCC will continue tp believe. Those that do not want to and feel they have evidence that anyone involved, including Don Phelps, Michael Kreisle, and Carlos Gonzales are crooks looking for a dollar to steal or misappropriate are going to have their corner. As soon as I get home, I am going tp lock dow. All of the threads. If there is a continued problem, we will form a new band camp.
Time to grow. Up
 
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