What exactly is IKECA ?

Let me ask you this. When you ask someone or some company a question and you get, instead of a direct answer, a salse pitch and lots of rhetoric , yet never a direct answer, doesn't that raise your suspicions?

A direct question deserves a direct answer. Sometimes a question is buried in statements making the question unclear. If you have a question, ask a question, don't shroud it with statements and other dialogue, and I will answer it the best I can, If I cannot give you a solid answer, I will forward your question to someone that can answer it.
 
Apologies. Why, on a hood cleaners exam in MA, are there non hood cleaning questions. Why after 2 years and several hood cleaning exams, haven't they been removed.
If IKECA is a "hood cleaners informational business, why are they going beyond that scope at their national meetings. If they have advanced to another level of fire safety why do they keep International Kitchen Exhaust Cleaners Association as their name?
Why when I call there do some many people know so little about hood cleaning. They refer me to someone that isn't there.
If there is no practical implementation of actual hood cleaning at IKECA, how can they certify anyone as a hood cleaner? It takes more than memorization of codes to be a hood cleaner.
Has the IKECA adopted in their entirety the NFPA 96 FIRE CODES?

Thats a few and I am sure that other hood cleaners will have some "relavent" questions.
 
How about the IKECA pushing for this. Hood cleaning is not rocket science but you need a very dedicated focused individual to do this for any length of time. They are unique individuals very valuable to the industry. Some are not very proficient in testing, ie weak reading skills. Why wouldn't they push for a verbal exam for the techs that know the job, know the codes but do not read very well. We have verbal tests for drivers licenses, why not hood cleaning?
 
What exactly is IKECA?

Very good question. I'll assert some of what I know about IKECA. IKECA started about twenty three years ago as a gathering of 13 like minded and lonely "hood cleaners" that were seeking fellowship, the sharing of ideas and commiseration regarding the hacks and waanbees of the time. The collected group, though small, represented enough energy, enthusiasm and ideas that at their first gathering, they concluded that they should get together again and, regulary, that they had the makings of an industry specific association. At first they were self managed but, they had the gumption to "get the word out" and, through this, they caught the attention of other like minded people and they began to attract other members. I was one of those early "others". I was the twenty sixth member and I have remained active for twenty one years plus. Over time, the collected group has had some very good ideas. Probably the first of the good ideas was to get a presence upon NFPA 96's Technical Committee. Through this presence, IKECA has not only had the opportunity to influence improvements to public safety in a positive way, IKECA has also had the opportunity to learn about the things that are important to public safety professionals and to respond to them in ways that have been of benefit to all. Please make no mistake about it, until IKECA became active on NFPA 96, there was no robust place in the conversation for the importance of proper cleaning in the prevention of fires and, there was little guidance for anyone relative to cleaning goals or expectations. In the pursuit of honesty, I would be remiss not to mention that Phil Ackland also contributed regularly toward these ends. So.......whatever else IKECA is "exactly" - IKECA is the body that has done more than all others combined, through public sevice, to enhance awareness and empower AHJs as it relates to the adoption and enforcement of cleaning standards that have diminished both the occurrence and value of cooking related fires as it relates to cleaning.

As time went on, IKECA's numbers grew, and the collective's experience indicated that there was a clear need for food service operators and AHJs to have a means of determining the good cleaner guys from the bad cleaner guys. In other words, IKECA became very convinced that the next thing to do was to develope and implement a viable and genuine means of certifying a self professed cleaner's competence. So, with the help of its membership, other concerned parties from outside the association, and Phil Ackland, IKECA put forth the first ever means of verifying one's competence. We did it through a formal, developed and proctored examination known as the CERTIFIED EXHAUST CLEANING SPECIALIST (CECS) exam. Some honest service providers and some other interested parties immediately saw the importance of certification and, in it's own little way, CECS certification got alot of attention. IKECA's membership spiked and even some people that had no desire to join, sat for the exam to become a CECS. I ask that you understand too, that this was the early to mid 90s. There was no internet and not many of us even had computers. This kind of administrative work took alot more work and alot more time than it takes today and, for the most part, it was being done by member volunteers. Still, it was all very necessary, very worthwhile and very rewarding, for us. Unfortunately, as we gained in recognition and in success, we attracted two different flavors of hacks and wannabees. First came those that sought to do as little as they could get away with to achieve IKECA CECS status while giving nothing back and, doing nothing to uphold the credibilty that is denoted by certification. Quite the contrary, there were and are many that use IKECA Certification as a sales tool to gain customers that they only ever intended to steal from and that diminish the value of certification through their bad acts. Second came those that saw selling certification as an opportunity to line their own pockets while doing nothing to enjoin the effort to improve public safety or to be of any real benefit to anyone but themselves. Note- Even though I have high regard for Phil Ackland and his works and, I don't wish to count him in this group, he would be the first to tell you that his earliest certification exams mimicked IKECAs exams almost absolutely. Whatever else is true about certification, THE INDISPUTABLE FACT IS that IKECA represents the only certification effort that is and has always been facilitated by volunteers and, from which no individual person has ever profited one penny.

Shortly after IKECA realized the success that came with the popularity of the CECS exam, we developed the Certified Exhaust System Inspector (CESI) program. Though its success is more measured than that of the CECS, its validity is indisputable as is represented by its failure rate. More people fail the CESI exam at their first attempt than with any other IKECA exam. That is as it should be. Since the advent of the CESI program, IKECA has put forth both the Certified Exhaust Cleaning Technician (CECT) and Professional Exhaust Cleaning Technician (PECT) exams and designations. These programs recognize that, especially in larger organizations, not every cleaning tech needs to be as wholly competent as would be indicated by the CECS designation and, that incoming folks might have greater overall success by working their way up to CECS/CESI through a graduated process. MANY of my company's cleaners enjoy CECT or PECT status and, in our company, these designations are required for advancement. Whatever else is true of IKECA's certification programs, we must be doing something right because government agencies keep comiing to us for guidance on how to implement, test, certify and license cleaning technicians in their areas. Also, IKECA has certified more cleaners (thousands) than all other wannabee efforts combined. This will probably remain the case so long as all other certifying efforts seek primarily to mimick IKECA in ways that serve only to line their own pockets while IKECA seeks primarily to help improve public safety and increase public awareness. NOTE - IKECA is not now, nor has it ever been, a means of training people. IKECA's certification programs serve as a means of codifying that, on at least one day, an individual demonstrated enough competence to earn our designation. We do not tell individuals how to learn it and, we don't know what competent individuals go on to do after they have succeeded at the exam, except that, they must prove continued learning to continue to be certified.We did once partner with a training program, owned by others, that culminated in the IKECA CECS exam. Over time, the results of this effort proved unsatisfactory and, IKECA withdrew. Still, it was not our training program, only our exam. IKECA DOES NOT TRAIN.

More recently, as the product of learning and in the desire to be of greater service overall, IKECA's volunteers committed to the monumental effort required to become an ANSI standards setting body and, to creating three standards. The first of those standards, ANSI/IKECA C10, is complete and is being published now. The consensus body that has developed it is comprised of IKECA active members (less than half) and other interested individuals and industry groups (more than half). The volunteer grour that forms the consensus body has worked very hard for several years to draft this document. By my assessment, it is the best thing to happen, in the name of exhaust cleaning, since the advent of certification. It is as clear a guideline as one could hope for, for the moment, and, it does more to make what we do understandable than any prior effort of any kind, given its simplicity. Once the printer is done with it and, it can be had, we think that it will be well received and, we hope that it will be a game changer, over time. I very strongly suggest that anyone who takes interest in exhaust system cleaning, get their hands on ANSI/IKECA C10 as soon as they can. Unfortunately, there are already wannabees that seek to diminish the value and application of this good work. Once again, this resistance is coming form those who have never engaged any such effort that was not selfserving, could not line their pockets and, who don't see an immediate cash benefit for themselves. They'll always be there, taking the crumbs that fall from the table and feeling satisfied by that without ever taking a seat at the table. Copycats live in fear because they're never in the driver's seat and its hard to see where things are going from the back of the pack.

What is IKECA exactly NOW?-

Another good question. IKECA now still has remnants of those early, earnest, honest days. Though not many of those remnants remain. Most of the "originals" are no longer in the business. Some are deceased. I only know of one other member that is still active in the association, that has been a member for longer than I have. This is the most comical aspect of the claims that IKECA is an old boys club. Most of those that yuo could accuse of that are long gone. My perspective is, that IKECA was founded and begun by a collection of men who found themselves in the grease exhaust cleaning business by default, largely. By this I mean that none of us first chose this business for ourselves, but, that the circumstances of our lives left us with few other options. To understand this, one must first accept that we are contemplating a time when most restauranteurs, who even had their systems cleaned, got their systems cleaned about once a year. Most places were never cleaned. There were no pressure washers, per se. The closest thing to a pressure washer was an old steam cleaner. Working with steam cleaners was kind of like working with nitro glycerin, if you didn't treat them right, they would blow up in your face and hurt you bad. There were no premanufactured cleaning agents, everybody bought caustic flakes and, again, tried not to hurt themselves. We did alot with scrapers and, nobody had invented access panels yet. As hard as it is now, it was alot harder then. Maybe that's why so many have died so young. Anyway, the point is that, among the originals, the business chose them to a greater extent than they chose the business. Still, they chose to found IKECA. Then, they set a good honest direction for IKECA and they openly shared their ideas, their hopes and their vision. That is how all of the things that are good about IKECA came to be. Again, unfortunately, what those honest men created back then has, today, become a vehicle for exploitation and misuse for a great many of the current membership. Too many join IKECA for what it can do for them rather than what we can all do together toward the benefit of all. Too many have gotten into the business because they see it as a way to grab fast money and with no regard for the fact that the opportunity was created for them by those that sought to be recognized for their good work by making the world a safer place. That's the fact. Today IKECA probably has more hacks and wannabees than genuine good service providers. One stark indication of that is the membership's inability to elect Don Pfliederer to the Board of Directors. Many of you know Don or, know of his good work. His inspection program does alot to ensure that the good guys are recognized for their good work and, that the hacks are exposed for thier misgivings. What does it mean when the majority of voting menbers chose not to vote for Don? For me, it means that the majority of voting member's work can't stand up to scrutiny so, they vote their fears. Again, for me, it is a very bad sign. For a very long time there have been very loud calls both from within the association and from outside the association for a member quality assurance program of some kind. Some kind of a program that would allow the association to periodically audit its members to see if they are living up to their promise to the IKECA Standards and Guidelines. Does the BOD's continued inability to put forth such a program indicate that the majority of the BOD is scared hacks? I don't know.

I DO KNOW that if every outsider that throws stones at IKECA was suddenly to join and take a seat at the table, things might be very different. I think that if some folks took the time that it takes to perpetuate these blogs and, instead, put that time into the IKECA effort, IKECA could be very different. In any case, I don't think that IKECA is going to go away. At least not for a long time. The association is too well recognized and has performed far too much in genuine public service to be cast aside carelessly. That would be foolish. If there was no IKECA, there would be no effort engaed in the effort to make things safer, simply for safety's sake, and, there is a need for that.

I also know that after Christian principles and ethics, IKECA has done more than any other entity to influence the way that I have developed my company and its means and processes. The benefits, for me, of IKECA fellowship and service are too great to count. Before you go making yourself look foolish by dismissing my last statement, please remind yourself that, with membership in IKECA, I have built the largest self-performing company of its kind in North America. That's all.

I have rambled on for far too long, i'll end here. For the critics - I know that this writing has become a diatribe. Please bring something better than that.

Step up or Shut up.

People throw rocks at things that shine.

Grab a weapon and man a post.

God Bless America!

Nelson Dilg 609-965-6949 for those that dare
 
Thank you Nelson. You must be really old, almost as old as me. LOL. That was very interesting reading. My take on that was IKECA started out with hood cleaners and helped define what our job was and is and some of the safety factors we needed to perform our work in addition to making the facility as safe as possible, correct? Apologies if I shortcut it too much. Well without the codes and the influence of IKECA we would al be cutting each others throats.
IKECA now is a very large, nation wide company with a great deal of influence on the AHJ's through out the states. It is like the semi official guide and standard setter for hood cleaners. This well organized national company makes the attending their meetings very difficult , pretty close to impossible, for the average hood cleaner, first by the one meeting format and the cost to get to the location of the meeting. It seems to me that there are a lot of small hood cleaners ( and there are a lot of us) are well aware of IKECA and the potential opportunity that presents itself for members. Yet joining is expensive, getting a look at a meeting in almost impossible because of location and expense. It does seem as though IKECA caters to an exclusive group of larger hood cleaners that can afford to join and have the flexibility of time away from their company to travel and spend days doing , discussing but without tangible benefits. It reminds me of an exclusive country club. All us regular guys can do is look up at it and wish we could join. Makes us a bit resentful, don't you think? IKECA with all its members can only consolidate ideas and present them to the various AHJ's through out the country. They may listen and adopt some of the ideas, but what is in it for the average joe? Why would the average hood cleaner get from going to a meeting. Realistically we are about making money, surviving in this economy. If it were all about saving lives and safety, wouldn't we be doing this for free? If we were not getting paid, would we do this crappy job?
/////////////
And again, why would the IKECA put non hood cleaning questions in an exam for MA hood cleaners?

If you don't like something, do something about it
If you are not going to do something
Shut the______up

Just because the majority of loud people want something, that still does not make the minority wrong. A lot of people can be all wrong. Just look at our government.
 
Outstanding!

What exactly is IKECA?

Unfortunately, there are already wannabees that seek to diminish the value and application of this good work. Once again, this resistance is coming form those who have never engaged any such effort that was not selfserving, could not line their pockets and, who don't see an immediate cash benefit for themselves. They'll always be there, taking the crumbs that fall from the table and feeling satisfied by that without ever taking a seat at the table. Copycats live in fear because they're never in the driver's seat and its hard to see where things are going from the back of the pack.
 
Again with the point somewhere else, that way nobody looks at me stuff. Just asking for some honest answers to direct questions. Got some, not all. What good work? In the beginning they accomplished something because they were in the trenches. Now not so much, so what can they do for me now? I am looking for a few valid reasons why to join, why to invest all this money, time, and so far what I got was " we were this and we were that, now we are .......I still can't figure out what they charge so much for ?
I certainly do not dismiss them because if the state of MA makes use of them I should not take them lightly. But what will joining them do for me? Why should I give them $1500.00? Somebody tell me. Maybe this is throwing rocks at something shiny, cause i can see it.
 
I DO KNOW that if every outsider that throws stones at IKECA was suddenly to join and take a seat at the table, things might be very different. I think that if some folks took the time that it takes to perpetuate these blogs and, instead, put that time into the IKECA effort, IKECA could be very different. In any case, I don't think that IKECA is going to go away. At least not for a long time. The association is too well recognized and has performed far too much in genuine public service to be cast aside carelessly. That would be foolish. If there was no IKECA, there would be no effort engaed in the effort to make things safer, simply for safety's sake, and, there is a need for that.

Thats my favorite Paragraph
 
Being that I am the originator of this post I assume that I am considered a stone thrower. It seems as though when people or companies are caught with their hand in the cookie jar they immediately point out anyone that questions them and say they are bad bad bad. How dare anyone ask them to prove themselves. I am not making frivolous accusations, I am merely asking this large company to show themselves in a relevant manner. What I got was this kind of petty stuff. Strange , coming from a supposedly reputable company.
 
Being that I am the originator of this post I assume that I am considered a stone thrower. It seems as though when people or companies are caught with their hand in the cookie jar they immediately point out anyone that questions them and say they are bad bad bad. How dare anyone ask them to prove themselves. I am not making frivolous accusations, I am merely asking this large company to show themselves in a relevant manner. What I got was this kind of petty stuff. Strange , coming from a supposedly reputable company.

Only if you feel that way, or take it as opportunity to be involved. Things happen an changes are made by men stepping up to the plate.
 
If it takes someone being involved at the cost of $1500 then it would not be an org I would be interested in. I don't know anything about KEC, nor pretend to, but it sounds like this outfit is dodging answers like the PW%A would.

William don't offend these guys, they moved away from the flounders at those orgs years ago. Baggage was left in the dust.


Ron Musgraves text me for
questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute.com
 
This discussion is much more lively over on the grime scene

How come you never help a brother out? Oh you don't belong to any trade association.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/kitchen-exhaust-hood-cleaning/23319-what-exactly-ikeca.html



I
t might be because here you have better answers, over there you have a bunch of guys who think they know better. Only they surface in the industry to complain about someone doing something to help them. They are realizing that they will be out sourced to someone thats better.

For every bad org member theres hundreds that are non members that stink. You guys got used like a tool by Matt & Others he circles with. Keep cheering them on on an on. Watch who they buddy up with Next....

WHERE's TGP now, all the SEO directly to Matt bryan & CO....

Matts out there like every other guy fighting to stay alive. Making excusing why he not a millionaire because of Hacks in the industry. Yet he created a bunch right here an at TGP. LOL

Its dead IKECA is controlling the industry and will for years to come. I'll bet Elvis goes back an re-certifies
 
TGP was killed in Las Vegas...during the IKECA meeting. It didn't go away, many of our ideas are being applied through Uni-Serve USA.

Alexy has helped many a greaser. He was pivotal in my 2009 startup of GreasePro. Matt gave up a lot through TGP, if I could choose any of the TGPers to benefit financially from it's SEO it would be him. It does still link to members of TGP. I get a call every now and then from this link, http://thegreasepolice.org/hood-cleaning-company/, which has all the members listed that were a part of TGP.

I'm seeing the same posts on both TGS and PWI, gets a bit tiring sorting through trying to see who is contributing exclusively on either forum. I like it here mostly because Marko has been banned.
 
How come you never help a brother out? Oh you don't belong to any trade association.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/kitchen-exhaust-hood-cleaning/23319-what-exactly-ikeca.html



I
t might be because here you have better answers, over there you have a bunch of guys who think they know better. Only they surface in the industry to complain about someone doing something to help them. They are realizing that they will be out sourced to someone thats better.

For every bad org member theres hundreds that are non members that stink. You guys got used like a tool by Matt & Others he circles with. Keep cheering them on on an on. Watch who they buddy up with Next....

WHERE's TGP now, all the SEO directly to Matt bryan & CO....

Matts out there like every other guy fighting to stay alive. Making excusing why he not a millionaire because of Hacks in the industry. Yet he created a bunch right here an at TGP. LOL

Its dead IKECA is controlling the industry and will for years to come. I'll bet Elvis goes back an re-certifies
Don't be shallow to think that you have to be in a trade organization to help someone out.
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...-Anyone-in-Charlottesville-Va.-I-Need-A-Favor
In KEC work I have yet to see any org that even came close to the help and high standards that the grease police offered it's members. Wanted to learn how to clean hoods you went there. PERIOD. Not a forum that had one section where greasers could talk but a entire board of real people established in the industry and want to do the right thing.
GP is still there but it is a closed forum by invite only. Memebrs got tired helping people out with some cutting edge stuff only to have the person they help show up in the same zip code doing work against them.
 
Don't be shallow to think that you have to be in a trade organization to help someone out.
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/u...-Anyone-in-Charlottesville-Va.-I-Need-A-Favor
In KEC work I have yet to see any org that even came close to the help and high standards that the grease police offered it's members. Wanted to learn how to clean hoods you went there. PERIOD. Not a forum that had one section where greasers could talk but a entire board of real people established in the industry and want to do the right thing.
GP is still there but it is a closed forum by invite only. Memebrs got tired helping people out with some cutting edge stuff only to have the person they help show up in the same zip code doing work against them.

Make sense , have the guy be a hack charge less an continue to screw up your market, then you can come on here an bitch about it.

I'm wondering how you people ever stay in business?


Ron Musgraves text me for
questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute.com
 
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