Look what it Took to Make E-clean today, this is my rewards after 30 years

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michaelmole said:
I seriously would like to hear your attempt at explaining away what Allison Hester wrote. This is the weakest cop-out I can imagine. "I can't educate the brainwashed Mike." haha Tony, that is a bunch of crap, and I'm guessing it probably translates to "I'm not smart enough to try to rebut such a well thought-out presentation."

And yeah, I probably should get my post count up here. This place could use someone besides you posting about window cleaning.

(-.O)
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I post about window cleaning sometimes, Mr. Mole :wink:
 
I have decided that for ones like you Mike there is no way to help you. I will simply say Allison took private conversations along with the idea that a verbal agreement supported by emails and text messages as to what was to happen as not good enough to follow thru on. Instead using a lack of a written contract as a reason for this issue and not industry politics as the real reason. So what we have is Ron being upset (and rightly so) at a good faith agreement being discarded on a whim. It really stems from the inaccurate way the Vegas Garage cleaning event was portrayed and Tony calling her out on it. After that hurt feelings took over. As for the traffic. Those are a few of my thoughts on this. I doubt you will agree but that's to be expected.
As for you posting more here perhaps you would be better off staying where you are "liked". PWI isn't going to be as easily swayed.
 
mistersqueegee said:
I have decided that for ones like you Mike there is no way to help you. I will simply say Allison took private conversations along with the idea that a verbal agreement supported by emails and text messages as to what was to happen as not good enough to follow thru on. Instead using a lack of a written contract as a reason for this issue and not industry politics as the real reason. I doubt you will agree but that's to be expected.
As for you posting more here perhaps you would be better off staying where you are "liked". PWI isn't going to be as easily swayed.
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Lol, well... I may be helpless and hopeless, but I do appreciate you trying, Ton. (Since you keep calling me "Mike" do you mind if I call you "Ton?" I hope not.)

It seems that eClean did do several of the things they had promised to do, even though there was no written contract in place (which for obvious reasons, they had specifically requested. As a BIG proponent of pre-existing damage waivers for window cleaning, I'm sure you understand the value of a CYA agreement on paper.). Anyway, it seems that eClean made a good faith attempt to provide coverage to the UAMCC, until the bad behavior of the president reached a level that wasn't tolerable anymore to the owner of eClean magazine.

So let me ask you this, Ton... As a business owner, have you ever turned down business from a customer who became abusive?
 
mistersqueegee said:
As for you posting more here perhaps you would be better off staying where you are "liked". PWI isn't going to be as easily swayed.
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And, yes, as you say, I am extremely popular on WCR. That's due to my good sense of humor and genuine desire to help people. Don't stress though... I will try not to steal too much of your spotlight here, Ton.
 
mistersqueegee said:
I have decided that for ones like you Mike there is no way to help you. I will simply say Allison took private conversations along with the idea that a verbal agreement supported by emails and text messages as to what was to happen as not good enough to follow thru on. Instead using a lack of a written contract as a reason for this issue and not industry politics as the real reason. So what we have is Ron being upset (and rightly so) at a good faith agreement being discarded on a whim. It really stems from the inaccurate way the Vegas Garage cleaning event was portrayed and Tony calling her out on it. After that hurt feelings took over. As for the traffic. Those are a few of my thoughts on this. I doubt you will agree but that's to be expected.
As for you posting more here perhaps you would be better off staying where you are "liked". PWI isn't going to be as easily swayed.
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I have multiple agreements that work on a handshake and have for years.

Anybody who tries to get out of an agreement made verbally or through email because a "contract" wasn't produced is a scumbag.

In this instance there is no question there was an agreement. The mere fact that the lack of a contract has become such a big issue confirms my assessment regarding UAMCC involvement with eClean was correct.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
 
Tony Shelton said:
I have multiple agreements that work on a handshake and have for years.

Anybody who tries to get out of an agreement made verbally or through email because a "contract" wasn't produced is a scumbag.

In this instance there is no question there was an agreement. The mere fact that the lack of a contract has become such a big issue confirms my assessment regarding UAMCC involvement with eClean was correct.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
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I also have had multiple good business relationships based on handshake deals. No doubt.

However, it did seem that there was more that wasn't produced than just a written contract, eh? Does the UAMCC BOD or President disagree with the evidence that they did not produce the content that they had agreed to produce, to be run in eClean? I think that was part of the problem... so it wasn't JUST the lack of a contract, it was also the lack of upholding the UAMCC's side of the deal.

Also, and this is a separate question... why was a written contract never produced? Was there some reason why the UAMCC could/would not do that?
 
Exactly what I was wondering, Michael.
It's fine for one party to act in good faith and extend some patience, but the line has to be drawn if there is not reciprocation.
That's just a general observation, but it seems to apply here based on what I've read tonight.
 
danwagner said:
Exactly what I was wondering, Michael.
It's fine for one party to act in good faith and extend some patience, but the line has to be drawn if there is not reciprocation.
That's just a general observation, but it seems to apply here based on what I've read tonight.
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Yeah, that's exactly my thoughts, Dan. It seems that the UAMCC 1) did not want to provide the requested written agreement, 2) did not provide the required material to be run by eClean, and 3) made all sorts of outlandish demands (ie, insisting that a UAMCC member's contribution not be included if they were not referred to as a UAMCC member). Given all of those circumstances (which are PROVED by the screenshots in the pdf I linked earlier... they are not just my opinion, they are FACTS) I can see why eClean did not want to remain in a nebulous, undefined business relationship with the UAMCC.
 
michaelmole said:
Yeah, that's exactly my thoughts, Dan. It seems that the UAMCC 1) did not want to provide the requested written agreement, 2) did not provide the required material to be run by eClean, and 3) made all sorts of outlandish demands (ie, insisting that a UAMCC member's contribution not be included if they were not referred to as a UAMCC member). Given all of those circumstances (which are PROVED by the screenshots in the pdf I linked earlier... they are not just my opinion, they are FACTS) I can see why eClean did not want to remain in a nebulous, undefined business relationship with the UAMCC.
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My father drilled into me that two wrongs don't make a right. I scoffed at it through my childhood, but have told my own kids that many times since.
I also extrapolate from it that if one "wrong" is brought to the fore the other wrong isn't all of a sudden justifiable.
This was a business agreement that was supposed to be confirmed by a contract. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't see it as being much different than me verbally agreeing to clean a business owner's windows every two weeks with the understanding that I would be paid. I will only do the service for so long without getting paid. Am I a liar for not doing what I said I'd do- clean his windows every two weeks? The agreement in question was bilateral.
 
Boy the phones must be burning up trying to generate some support for this witch hunt. They are all coming out of the woodwork now.

From low level contractors who can't sell their failed businesses (who apparently have an Obama phone now to check the boards), to contractors who are completely out of business and even Celeste, who Ron carried like a Kangaroo in a pouch throughout the death of her business until he gave her the boot and quit paying for her travel to events, hotels and food and God knows what else after Jill caught her stuffing drawing boxes in Tampa three years ago and told Ron.

Go ahead Jill, it's ok now, you can talk about it. Celeste raised her head to give support to this bashing and now it's going to have to be popped like a whack a mole. Ron never wanted to say anything about it to save her the embarrassment, in spite of the terrible situation of how to deal with fair drawings with stuffed drawing boxes.

But I guess all Ron has to do is cut off the spigot to make an enemy these days. Or be successful in a market where a lesser contractor is a failure.

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Then you've got this loser who joins in the bashing with his feigned "healing the industry" facade. Trey Posey, who wanted to come to my coil cleaning class but didn't have the $300 or so dollars to attend and asked if he could pay later. College boy. Trusted Hinderliter puppet and now employee of the year? month? day? at PowerWash.com? All I know is he finally made the $300 to pay for my class and sent it to me a year later. (Yeah, I've still got the cancelled check). Great testimonials from these industry leaders!

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If you guys only knew what lengths Ron has gone to to protect these losers from embarrassment and how much money he spent out of his pocket over the years to try to help them. Only for them to turn on him like the rabid habitually unemployed when they hear their third year of unemployment might be coming to an end.

How much money did Chris L ask you for Ron? $50k?

Here's a little tidbit about the beloved Allison. Ron came to me two years ago and said Allison needed some work because of some difficulty. He wanted to know if we could somehow pay her to write. I told Ron I couldn't afford to get involved in that at the time. So he decided he would make it work for her if he had to do it out of his own pocket. She made a commitment to write for Ron and eventually the UAMCC in the future. Word got out that she was going to write for Ron. Paul found out and would have none of that so he made her an offer. Allison came to Ron and apologized and told him she would not be able to keep her commitment. (it must have not been in writing)

That DAY I told him to cut her loose. I told him she was disloyal and she should never be trusted to write for an industry that is so divided if she didn't even have the loyalty to keep a commitment. Ron disagreed and said she was just doing what she thought was best for her family. He treated her well even after that. I was cordial to her and appreciated her declaration of her faith and put the disloyalty issue on the backburner hoping that Ron was right.

Unfortunately he was not. Her reporting on the Garage cleaning event was extremely slanted and her excuse was that she was trying to put the industry in the "best light". Nevermind the fact that she was covering up for two men who have the goal of putting the industry in the WORST possible light.

It doesn't matter who believes me on this. If you don't believe me I don't want you to. IF you fall into that camp, you either can't read 5 years of posts or you are not intelligent enough to be on a team that can pull this industry out of 20 years of stagnation. Bye bye. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

If you do believe me, welcome to the team. We are going to end the years of the domination of backroom phone calls choosing the direction of this industry. We are going to end the "Cleaner Times" and "eClean" types of slanted reporting in favor of publications that represent us as the environmentally conscious cleaners we are. Not fake environmental directors who think like this:

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We are done. Choose a side and be loyal. Ron has worked his tail off for this industry and spent more money helping contractors with nothing to gain on his part than many of us have made since we've been in the business. He continues to do it to this day.

He is passionate. He is loyal to the cause of the UAMCC. He is doing what he is doing for YOU, the UAMCC member. He was trying his best to make the best of a situation that was gradually being revealed as a no-win situation with the UAMCC trying to get decent coverage in a magazine owned by a PWNA board member and by a writer, who couldn't even be trusted to report the facts on an event because it might make Hinderliter or Gamble look bad. A better choice would have been to not write about it at all. I'm sure the Nevada official would have appreciated not having his picture attached to such a piece.

Choose a side, have faith that you have made the right decision and work towards bettering this industry. Just realize the other side will always be there waiting to destroy your efforts on every turn. Be ready for them, don't be afraid of them and make them put everything in writing (they like that anyway).
 
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