How about the outsourcing of the education program?

[oneness]

I can't see why a non-member is so passionate about an organization's activities that they dont belong to.

I believe I have explained my interest in a prior reply to Doc (If I'm the non-member you're referring to). Passionate? No. Interested, yes.

This is a great new decade! There are other new organization's to join. Why waste so much time and energy on the PWNA. WRAPI is up an coming, looking for members. The UAMCC is started and is looking for members, We have options... pick the best deal that you can find.

WRAPI - WOOD Restoration and Preservation Institute. I don't do much wood at all, so that likely wouldn't be a good fit.

UAMCC - A bit too wide ranging for what I'm looking for, but who knows for the future.

PWNA - Perfect fit in purpose, but I have a few issues to work through...and this thread has brought more up. That's all. I don't feel I've bashed anyone or any org. If I have, please point it out. Thanks.

 

[Mathew Johnson]

I believe I have explained my interest in a prior reply to Doc (If I'm the non-member you're referring to). Passionate? No. Interested, yes.



WRAPI - WOOD Restoration and Preservation Institute. I don't do much wood at all, so that likely wouldn't be a good fit.

UAMCC - A bit too wide ranging for what I'm looking for, but who knows for the future.

PWNA - Perfect fit in purpose, but I have a few issues to work through...and this thread has brought more up. That's all. I don't feel I've bashed anyone or any org. If I have, please point it out. Thanks.

Mike, I have not seen you bash anyone... I agree with your statement above. THe PWNA is a perfect fit for my organization much like it may be for your business. THe PWNA offers me the ability to promote my wood and deck restoration (Wood Certified) AND the power washing side of my business. Is it the perfect fit for me yea, is it the perfect org? NO. THey have issues to work through, but in thier defense, they have attempted to address them publicly which shows they are listening.

Again, I question if there is a perfect org. I doubt either of the other two are percieved as flawless., THe question is.... which ihas the best bang for the buck? In spite of thier flaws, the PWNA is it for me at this time.... again it is the only org that allows me to promote my wood restoration and powerwashing under the same logo.


$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Squirtgun]

So back to the bidding process.Is it still acceptable for a BOD member too submit a bid for the outsourcing of the PWNA's educational programs.

The general concensus from the members is NO.BECAUSE the members feel;It gives the appearance of impropriety by and an unfair advantage to the BOD member bidding.Also,it casts shades of grey on the other BOD members for even considering this a viable option in the biddng process.

 

[Clean County PW]

Rod brings up his thoughts here and he says it falls on deaf ears..Not true- his thoughts and idea's have been talked about numerous times and in the past we have taken what he has said and put it into motion. I can say we don't always agree with what Rod says but thats a given. We don't always even agree with each other.

Matt--your right there are other org's and if the PWNA is not for someone then maybe the other org's are. Maybe all of them are or maybe non at all.

What Wrapi is going to see one day with there org. is what your seeing here now. Its the non member being so passionate about complaining and yet..they will do..NOTHING. When someone such as Doc tells them they can make a difference if they want to..they just look for something else to complain about. This is a never ending process and you have to take it for what it is. Just re-read Docs two post here and watch the sidestepping that happens with the response to it by Mike Williamson. Read it and Read it again and what you'll see is Mike is looking for anything to gripe about and yet...He'll do nothing about it..I know when Mike reads this he'll reply he doesn't have to do nothing because he's not a BOD. Your know where I'm going with this..and I'm also lost at why some people do become so passionate about an Org.s activities and they don't belong. They will probably say because they want to see changes happen..Well get off your ass and do something about it.

Also as I told Ron today there's nowhere that states that we have to say everything that happens in a Board Room. Once again if you want to know absolutely everything then become a Board Member and No Mike Williamson where not trying to hide things...from you.

I remember myself Everett and a few others voicing our concerns about the PWNA in the past. Today where part of the decision process. Think about that and let it soak in.

There's a great guy on Beths BB that I'm hoping becomes a PWNA Bod one day and who could this be..I'm not saying because its not open to the members yet. Once again this is policy and no I will not re-lease it. Don't like this..Then get in and change what it is you just don't like. It can be done and it has been done.

 

[oneness]

Its the non member being so passionate about complaining and yet..they will do..NOTHING.

Again, I'm not complaining. I'm asking questions, as are others, but the thread keeps being brought back to focus on those who are asking questions, rather than the questions themselves. Who's doing the sidestepping here?

When someone such as Doc tells them they can make a difference if they want to..they just look for something else to complain about. This is a never ending process and you have to take it for what it is. Just re-read Docs two post here and watch the sidestepping that happens with the response to it by Mike Williamson. Read it and Read it again and what you'll see is Mike is looking for anything to gripe about and yet...He'll do nothing about it..I know when Mike reads this he'll reply he doesn't have to do nothing because he's not a BOD. Your know where I'm going with this..and I'm also lost at why some people do become so passionate about an Org.s activities and they don't belong. They will probably say because they want to see changes happen..Well get off your ass and do something about it.

Maybe instead of speculating about why "maybe" I am interested in the activities of an org. to which I don't belong, you migh scroll up and see my actual answers to that question. Thank you, however, for answering for me. I may be a bit more vocal than others here, but the questions I'm referring to aren't even questions I initially asked...they were asked by other PWNA members, and still haven't been answered. You're telling me I need to join the PWNA, run for the BOD, and then maybe we can have answers???? Every time someone has a complaint your response is going to be "Well, if you don't like it, run for the BOD and change it!"???? Isn't that what YOU'RE there for?

I've been fairly civil in this thread, and have not risen to the bait tossed out by you and Doc, but I'm sure getting sick of being asked why I'm interested in the activities of the PWNA, and of being accused of attacking/bashing/whining/griping/complaining. I have spoken to several very upstanding PWNA members, and every one I have spoken to has agreed that I have not been out of line, rude, or offensive, and are also disturbed by the unprofessional responses by PWNA BOD members.

Also as I told Ron today there's nowhere that states that we have to say everything that happens in a Board Room. Once again if you want to know absolutely everything then become a Board Member and No Mike Williamson where not trying to hide things...from you.

Ok, John Tornebene, I hear you.

I remember myself Everett and a few others voicing our concerns about the PWNA in the past. Today where part of the decision process. Think about that and let it soak in.

There's a great guy on Beths BB that I'm hoping becomes a PWNA Bod one day and who could this be..I'm not saying because its not open to the members yet. Once again this is policy and no I will not re-lease it. Don't like this..Then get in and change what it is you just don't like. It can be done and it has been done.

I can think of several who would make a major improvement in the PWNA BOD simply by displacing certain current PWNA BOD members.

 

[oneness]

So back to the bidding process.Is it still acceptable for a BOD member too submit a bid for the outsourcing of the PWNA's educational programs.

The general concensus from the members is NO.BECAUSE the members feel;It gives the appearance of impropriety by and an unfair advantage to the BOD member bidding.Also,it casts shades of grey on the other BOD members for even considering this a viable option in the biddng process.

It appears the PWNA BOD is more interested in attacking those asking questions than they are in answering very valid concerns posed by the membership. I tend to agree with Rod...deaf ears.

 

[Squirtgun]

I'm also lost at why some people do become so passionate about an Org.s activities and they don't belong.

JohnT,
I would have to say that it isn't so much passion,as it is interest.

If the PWNA lobbies local,state or federal government for restricitions or requirements for the industry we earn our living from,you darn right we are interested.If the PWNA started a marketing campaign to discredit non-members,you are darn right we are intersted.If a suspect bidding practice sheds negative light on the Org that says it represenst the industry we are part,we as non-members are interested.
Why does an outsiders view throw the BOD into such a tantrum?Why proclaim to represent the entire pressure washing industry if you feel non-members viewpoints are so unimportant?If protecting the BOD/PWNA image is so important why do current BOD members and a former PWNA president have to get a BB and talk to other contractors like they are 2yrs old?
Or is it,we can all agree to disagree as long as we change our view point to agree with the BOD?

I also don't see why the topic of this thread keeps being side stepped.Your members have stated in this thread they do not approve of the bidding process.What if anything is the BOD going to do to put it's members minds at ease?

 

[Clean County PW]

I can think of several who would make a major improvement in the PWNA BOD simply by displacing certain current PWNA BOD members.

OK Mike. Fair enough. I'm thinking what is Mike going to do about this?? Nothing and he says he cares.

Mike answer this question without quoting everything I'm saying. Doesn't it bother you at all that you don't like whats going on..but you do absolutely nothing about it?? Obviously your unhappy with the PWNA and you don't like what your seeing or hearing. Besides complaining all over the net about it and its quite obvious to me that you feel it all falls on deaf ears..Well so how much do you really care?? Skip the BOD's for a second. I'm asking you Mike Williamson...What are you going to do about it?

I know you have a newborn baby so let me re-phrase this. When your child grows up and he see's something that he says he really cares about and he doesn't like the way things are what would you tell him to do??

Answer those questions without going somewhere else with this. Can you?

 

[Clean County PW]

I also don't see why the topic of this thread keeps being side stepped.Your members have stated in this thread they do not approve of the bidding process.What if anything is the BOD going to do to put it's members minds at ease?

Scott,
This bidding went to every PWNA member which when I last checked was 377 members. Any member of the PWNA can place a bid. It does not say anywhere that a BOD can't place a bid. Any and all members can..and so can non members which I'm not happy about but I'm following protocol.

So Scott now there are about 6 or so PWNA members stating there not happy about that. The other 371 have not mention to anyone that there unhappy about this. There's a ton of ways to look at this with one of them being that maybe the other 371 PWNA members just don't care.

Either way there not complaining and that hurts the hell out of Guys like Rod because there not supporting what he is saying..because they say nothing. So unfortunetly sometimes when there is only 6 out of 377 people complaining then you may not see those 6 get there way. This maybe unfair to some but like Doc has said "People should get involved" and that goes for non members if they care like the way Mike Williamson seems to do and also PWNA members.

Thats it and there you have it. Disect the hell out of what I said here..and you will come up with what Doc has made clear. PEOPLE NEED TO GET INVOLVED!!

 

[Mathew Johnson]

John,

YOu bring up a good point, It is the minority of the membership complaining out of the 377 members. I guess you will get that in any org

 

[Beth & Rod]

From a December 2005 meeting:

Motioned by Doc Reisman and Everett Abrams
To change the wording in the By Laws using a ‘minimum’ of 11 Board Members. Motion to increase and elect 3 new members for 2006.
2nd by Henry Bockman
Motion Carried

I have a question. Can someone please clarify for me... it is my understanding that you can not change the bylaws on a motion in a meeting.
Can you please confirm this?

The following is an excerpt from the current bylaws I have.

ARTICLE XIII - Amendments
The bylaws may be amended by a two-thirds (2/3) vote of the responding membership, provided that thirty (30) days written notice on any proposed amendment shall have been given.

I don't remember getting a ballot in the mail and there was nothing in the waterworks either or a special e-mail blast.

Can someone please clarify this action?

Beth

 

[Beth & Rod]

This is a good read....
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html
and...
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf

The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, such as the creator or the creator's family, shareholders of the organization, other designated individuals, or persons controlled directly or indirectly by such private interests. No part of the net earnings of an IRC Section 501(c)(3) organization may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. A private shareholder or individual is a person having a personal and private interest in the activities of the organization. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any managers agreeing to the transaction.

Beth

 

[Squirtgun]

Disect the hell out of what I said here..

JohnT,
First things first.I haven't tried to disect anything you have said.I'm trying to keep the thread somewhat on the track in which it started.
So get off your high horse.This doesn't have to be nasty or personal but,if you choose to make that way well..... game on.I can/will name call and act just as unprofessional as you,Ev,Doc or anyone else who wants to stoop to that level.

If there is the slightest concern expressed by any member about the means in which the notification of the bidding process was handled,wouldn't it be prudent for the BOD to take the time to send out emails,letters or newletters again to ensure that every PWNA member has infact received the info?

 

[oneness]

OK Mike. Fair enough. I'm thinking what is Mike going to do about this?? Nothing and he says he cares.

Mike answer this question without quoting everything I'm saying. Doesn't it bother you at all that you don't like whats going on..but you do absolutely nothing about it?? Obviously your unhappy with the PWNA and you don't like what your seeing or hearing. Besides complaining all over the net about it and its quite obvious to me that you feel it all falls on deaf ears..Well so how much do you really care?? Skip the BOD's for a second. I'm asking you Mike Williamson...What are you going to do about it?

Answer those questions without going somewhere else with this. Can you?

John, if you can't get it by this point, I don't think there's any hope for you. You're a "yes man". You toe the line and say "I'm just following protocol". Can you HONESTLY say you don't see a problem with allowing bids from a member of the board who determines who gets the bids? Can you HONESTLY say you don't see a problem with giving people a few short days to get together a bid package of this scope? Can you HONESTLY say you don't see a problem with proprietary information being given to competitors simply because they sit on the board making the decisions?

You keep asking what I am going to do, knowing there's realistically NOTHING I can do other than what I'm doing. I've already explained my position...I'm questioning some things that don't seem quite right in an organziation that I'm deciding whether or not to join. It isn't my JOB to fix the PWNA, that's what YOU guys are for. If you can answer yes to each question above, then I don't see any point in continuing a discussion with you...you're blind and all you're going to do is say "everything is fine with the PWNA".

What you seem to be looking for is a statement from me to the effect of "I'm going to change things, I'm going to join the PWNA and I'm going to run for the BOD, and I'll change things!!!!" I'm not going to do that. I have much better things to do with my time that spend that kind of time and money to try to fix what you and the other 371 members seem to think is just fine.

As far as how many of the 377 members are complaining, how many of the 377 members even know about these issues? How many come to PWI or have seen this thread? How many are vocal enough to say something? Not many, I'm guessing.

I guess when something seemingly underhanded is happening, and only 6 people notice, it's ok, since the other 371 members either don't know, don't feel comfortable complaining, or don't care.

And lastly, I am not "complaining all over the net about it", I am expressing questions and concerns right here in this thread. Maybe you have me confused with some of the PWNA haters out there who have nothing but negative things to say. Where have I been negative or hateful towards the PWNA?

You keep bringing the focus back on me, and what I'm doing, and how hateful and negative and complaining I have been all over the internet, but no one seems to want to deal with the issues here, other than to say "We are doing everything just fine, following protocol" like good little yes men.

I will eagerly await the next post critiquing my failure to act.

 

[oneness]

John,

YOu bring up a good point, It is the minority of the membership complaining out of the 377 members. I guess you will get that in any org

That's usually how any problem comes to light...one, or a few, notice a problem, become vocal about it, and awareness increases. I'm sure there are more than 6 out of 377 who see a problem with how things were and are being handled in this process.

 

[MarkH]

I only registered on this site for possibly this only reply, and I have read all that everyone has written. I for one plan on giving anyone that bids equal opportunity for classes and it does not matter whether they are bod or not. I am an honest person, just trying to do a positive change for our membership. No one person is able to teach all the classes my comittee is planning on adding to our current list and no one person could spend as much time away from their business or family to teach every class every time it is being taught wherever in the U.S. or Canada, Would You? If one company is more knowledgable about stone, or concrete, or someone else is more knowledgable about awnings wouldn't you want to learn from the person that is more knowledgable in their field? I really would not want to learn how to do Kitchen Exhaust from a guy that only has knowledge of cleaning Decks or washing windows, no disrespect to those fields just an example. Would you want to go to an eye doctor to have a quadruple bypass done? You all slam the guy that is making the decisions as to bod's having upper hand on bidding and blah blah blah. I am the Certification Committee Chairman and I WILL take all of the bids, disect them, decide who my committee and myself feel would be best for each class and the members or the PWNA and then give my recommendations to the board. Yes I am a board member, BUT, I have absolutly NO interest in bidding or teaching that would sway my decisions any way. I have already looked over many of the bids, and have given my opinion to my comittee for thought before we go to Memphis next week to look everything over as to the exact way they have came in to me. I just want to expand the current certification courses and offer more avenues for members to learn. I come from a carpet cleaning background and I always felt that as much information you can get is just a positive for anyone willing to take those steps. I have been through almost every class they offered, became a journeyman and moved on to a Master Carpet , Master Fire and Water damage and Master Upholstery cleaning technician. I have personally taken offense to everyone thinking that I will not make unbiased decisions. I really dont care WHO you are and WHERE you come from to be eligible for the bidding. I know I will be slammed for this post as everyone else has in the past 5 pages, I just wanted you to know I am listening and i dont have DEAF EARS my hearing is fine. IF there is a BOD that is participating in bidding, I feel the most honest way to place the actual voting is to simply have that person step out of the room and wait for our discussion and voting to be over. Just because someone is possibly on the board, doesn't mean that their bid will be automatically accepted. We have had several bids come in for many of the classes. Furthermore, We have had some GREAT bids coming in that will push our classes further than they ever have in the past, and yes, I look to add even more classes in the future just because this thread has made this look like such a bad thing, So, if you want to get involved, get some bids together and send them in for future classes. I love to prove the negative ideas a positive change. I do it quite frequently in my business, if someone says it cant be done, I do everything I can to prove that it can be and can be done successfully.
Mark H

 

[Grant]

When and where was the original request for proposals distributed?

 

[Grant]

As a reminder to all, this is a very active and interesting thread and we should all act like the professionals that we are. Personal attacks are uncalled for and serve no purpose. Please refrain from bashing each other or companies or organizations. Hopefully some positive things will come from this lively discussion.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

I only registered on this site for possibly this only reply, and I have read all that everyone has written.

Your claim is that your Mark Hatten BOD member PWNA? You posted anonymously and did not follow the rules of PWI.

Welcome to the PWNA first forum ever online and welcome for the first time contributing to the organization you’re a BOD members of. I do not fault you for not realizing that this is the PWNA’s forum. I’m not going to bash you for not knowing that. Possibly this could be due to poor communications.


I appreciate the post on your forum. PWI facilitated this through your BOD quite some time back. FYI

I hope you continue to listen to Members and NON-members. I admire your stand and point of view. I may not agree with all of it.

I have elected to run for the BOD if the PWNA will have me. But before anyone votes for me I will tell them my hopes dreams and goals for the future. Perhaps if someone had seen your ideas and thoughts they may not have voted for you. (This is and Example not a bashing) I don’t thing anything in your particular statement was wrong or hard to swallow. My point is that everyone has a personal agenda. I for one was told you are bidding on this; maybe this is true or false?


Two points,,, maybe the bidding should be open to the public or maybe just the PWNA bod members should let the members Know they are bidding or if they get elected they plan on bidding.


Second point, if I run I will not only let people know why I’m joining but that I want to personally accomplish some things for myself. This way when I’m elected by the members no one can say Ron said he wasn’t going to do that.

We elect a president we know who he has slept with what he eats for lunch. You get my point. I have not seen one bio for the PWNA that was personal. I want to know not only the goals for the PWNA but the goals for them. What do they expect from the PWNA.


I think this is the guy in the above post unless it and imposter.
Mark Hatten
Secretary
330-682-7847

Mark if that’s you welcome to PWI……….

 

[Grant]

The IP is from New York, close to Long Island