How about the outsourcing of the education program?

Its sad that it takes something like this to open the BODS eyes and make them pay attention to the members and what they have to say. John this is not about WRAPI,Russell or Carlos this thread is about the scrutiny of the PWNA BOD and the bidding process.


Roger
 
Last edited:
RogerG said:
It sad that it takes something like this to open the BODS eyes and make them pay attention to the members and what they have to say. John this is not about WRAPI,Russell or Carlos this thread is about the scrutiny of the PWNA BOD and the bidding process.


Roger
Click to expand...

Has anyone figured out why the BOD claims notices went out to all members, and were published early on in the bidding process, but none of the members seem to have received them or saw them in the publications mentioned?? That's what seems a bit suspect to me.
 
This is about PWNA's BID PROCESS and the conflict of interest that currently exists by having a BOD (and the VP of PWNA) be allowed to hold office while bidding or if selected.

This is not about WRAPI at all.

Beth
 
John,

Maybe a pour choice of words on my part and I certainly understand ones passion. I was just echoing what members of the PWNA have stated ~ they have had no say so in the process pertaining to the subject matter of this thread!!

This thread has deeper implications than what is on the surface.
 
As a Non-Renewing former PWNA member. These are the kind of things that have pushed me away from this Org. The lack of BOD members telling the truth about what is going on, and what has happened in the past (where is the information at, and the money spent?) The total lack of contractor (Members) involment in almost any situation or even being heard from. There is no communication at all in this org. The members are pretty much sold into this endevour by thinking they will help their business in every aspect, get this logo to put on everything to help promote their business as belonging to something great for the industry, and other nifty things like the store that sells nothing useful unless you want a PWNA bear. The bottom line is that the concept was awesome but poorly run, and going the wrong direction with no turning around. It's like buying a box of cookies from the nice kid with a smile telling you they are going to a good cause and taste great. Then as you buy and get the first bite they are horrible, so you go back to find the kid and you find the empty stand and the envelope where the money that the kid had collected empty. The you feel really misled and taken advantage off. Oh by the way the kid is at the store spending all the earned money on candy that what suppose to go to the great cause in the beginning to help better what ever the cause was for. That is the way I feel about the PWNA and how it has treated me and my company. Also there are many that feel this way that, are afraid to speak up because they have called here, and sent emails. I gave money thinking this would help, but it seems that it only helps the select few who are still out there pushing these cookies. Boy I wish I had my money back, and the reimbursement for all the logo's that went into my advertising, and on my trailers that are now garbage. There are members that still bust their you know what and have in the past, who then want to be heard and are totally mislead and ignored like alot of us former members. This is not how you treat the people past and present who pay money to keep the ship running and afloat, while the captain and his crew keep drilling holes in it. There are only so many plugs before this ship sinks.
Sorry to say this but some people need to be lifted by their feet and hung upside down to see what money or paperwork (Info) falls out of their pockets.
Then we will see all the misleading evil.

Dave
 
Last edited:
This is a hot topic and most likely will get hotter. I am not a member of the PWNA so I do not have a say in the process (I think it's coming to light that members don't have a say so either but that is another topic)
Click to expand...


Great observation Carlos.I honestly don't see why you are apologizing for sharing your view point as an outsider.You being the co-founder of WRAPI should have no impact on the situation at hand.
Anyone who has read the thread from start to present can see that this has turned into a hot topic.
 
Mr. Ott,

I had asked another PWNA BOD member if we had tried to contact you. Contact was attempted through both e-mail and phone. I encourage you call me directly if you wish to talk further.

I find your post very offensive and the analogy to be very misleading.

I cannot see how members and non-members could interpret PWNA as hiding something when membership receives an invitation to BOD meetings and we invite members to be on committees along with the BOD.

If individuals wish to consume their time through buying into the “rumor mill” then discontent and misunderstanding will be forged. We should all know as adults what is accomplished when being a part of gossip.

“The lack of BOD members telling the truth about what is going on” I think what is really being said is the want or verification of information. The BOD shares its findings with it membership. If you are not part of the membership you will not receive the information.

I am confused as to why those who are not members care about what PWNA is doing. All information within the BOD is considered confidential until the PWNA BOD has discussed all the details and has made a decision, Then and only then is information voted on and is shared with the membership. I do not see the relevants in the BOD sharing the minutia of a BOD conversation with PWNA Members of the possibilities of what could have been or what might be.

Those who believe this is unfair or wrong may wish to look at other BOD’s, read Roberts Rules of Order and digest the PWNA By-Laws. If individuals wishing to have a say, then should considered speaking directly to your BOD, working on a committee or becoming a BOD.

As it has been said many times before, it shall be said again. PWNA is operated by a group of volunteers! I find it very disheartening knowing the time and effort many of the PWNA BOD donate each week. We are not talking about 5 or 10 hours many spend more then 20 hours per week. The word “donate” and “free” should stay in mind.

Last time I checked PWNA never claimed to be perfect. You use the phrase “drilling holes in it.” What are you doing?

“Misleading evil?”
Anyone can tear something apart through criticizing and pointing out the mistakes, to destroy is easy. I will not bore all of you with the long list of accomplishments of current and past projects. I am not aware of any Power Washing Organization representing contractors or which is facilitating as many industry related projects as PWNA.

This is for anyone, if you are serious about discussing and solving problems, looking at how we can make the industry better or items you feel should be brought to the attention of the PWNA BOD. I welcome you to contact the BOD or myself directly.

Office 847-406-5073 (direct line)

Cell 847-922-4921

doc@nfs-fire.com

doc.reisman@facilitec-usa.com
 
Doc said:
I think what is really being said is the want or verification of information. The BOD shares its findings with it membership. If you are not part of the membership you will not receive the information.
Click to expand...

Those who ARE part of the membership seem to have a lot of unanswered questions...The answer seems to keep popping up "if you wish to discuss this further, feel free to give me a call". I realize that you wish to keep secret PWNA information away from the hands of "lesser" pressure washing contractors (non-members) but I would think that if everything was above-board, the PWNA would WANT these issues dealt with publicly. There are a lot of non-members out there who may at some point choose to become members, and how things like this are handled surely play a large part in that decision.

Doc said:
I am confused as to why those who are not members care about what PWNA is doing.
Click to expand...

I'm sure the reasons vary. For some, it is because they, as Dave, are former members who chose not to renew their membership for this type of stuff.

For others, and this includes me, it is because we have and are considering joining, and like to know exactly what it is that we may be getting ourselves involved in. Is that what you really want to tell all those non-members (i.e. potential members) out there? "Shut up and mind your own business"??? Who knows IF I'll ever join, maybe it will be this month, maybe next year, maybe in 5 years, maybe never...it all depends on when I feel it is the right time to join...when I feel the benefits outweigh the membership dues and the hassle of being a member of organization of people with widely varying opinions and attitudes. It is exactly this type of situation that gives me serious doubts about the wisdom of joining. There are also a couple BOD members that I have serious questions about their credibility and integrity based on their behavior and statements on other BBSs. I surely can't be the only fence-sitter out there watching this with interest to see how the PWNA handles things.

For others, it is because though they are not members, what the PWNA can and sometimes does affect the industry in which they make their living.

Doc said:
All information within the BOD is considered confidential until the PWNA BOD has discussed all the details and has made a decision, Then and only then is information voted on and is shared with the membership. I do not see the relevants in the BOD sharing the minutia of a BOD conversation with PWNA Members of the possibilities of what could have been or what might be.
Click to expand...


The relevance is in the clear conflict of interest in a BOD member bidding on contracts where that same BOD decides to whom the contracts are awarded, and that BOD member gaining access to proprietary information from another company by sitting on that BOD. Then there's the apparent poorly planned (at best) bid process. That issue hasn't been dealt with either, other than some apparently untrue (though I'm sure mistakenly) statements by Everett regarding when notification for bid requests were sent out and/or published.

Doc said:
As it has been said many times before, it shall be said again. PWNA is operated by a group of volunteers! I find it very disheartening knowing the time and effort many of the PWNA BOD donate each week. We are not talking about 5 or 10 hours many spend more then 20 hours per week. The word “donate” and “free” should stay in mind.
Click to expand...

Why is it disheartening? I would think it would be encouraging to have such a great group of volunteers who are willing to sacrifice so much time to something they believe in.

The BOD of every non-profit corporation is run by volunteers...they can't legally gain compensation for their service.
 
For more then 14 years the same things have been said about the PWNA and its BOD yet PWNA continues to grow, change the industry and help to make positive enhancements to those owning a PW company.

As you can see I do not subscribe to your thought process "oneness."

The "disheartening" part is the constant conspiracy as to how PWNA is doing something wrong. Again if you do not wish to be a part of PWNA, no problem, don’t.

If you are looking for information about what the BOD is doing then go to the website(s) or talk to a BOD member. If you are looking to expose mistakes the BOD has made in the past your focus is in the wrong place.

Have you made mistakes in the past or present? Would you mind sharing all of the things you felt could be considered by others a possible mistake based on the many interpretations? Lets also list those things you have done right but others feel it is a mistake.

You might join if.......... You might join when........

If you do not like what is going on or what direction PWNA is heading I strongly recommend you submit your bio to me now so I may submit your information for a vote by the membership for the BOD position. PWNA is currently review candidates for the BOD. We have 3 positions to fill. PWNA membership votes other members to the BOD position to represent the membership and the industry.

You and others have been empowered by PWNA to make change through being a part of the process. PWNA has just put all of you in the drivers seat. Are you going to continue to talk or are you going to join the ranks of action?
 
Doc said:
For more then 14 years the same things have been said about the PWNA and its BOD yet PWNA continues to grow, change the industry and help to make positive enhancements to those owning a PW company.
Click to expand...

I have not said anything here about the PWNA not growing, not changing the industry, and not helping make positive enhancements to those owning a PW company. Please don't transfer to me the cynicism and anger some seem to have towards the PWNA. I haven't, as far as I know, done anything here but ask questions, questions also asked by some very upstanding members of the PWNA. My point simply was that the PWNA DOES affect the industry, so I have an interest in what it does. Past successes and endeavors are great. The question here is what's happening NOW, not last year.

Doc said:
As you can see I do not subscribe to your thought process "oneness."
Click to expand...

Apparently not, "doc". It seems to be, as pointed out above, the same thought process held by some very upstanding members.

Doc said:
The "disheartening" part is the constant conspiracy as to how PWNA is doing something wrong. Again if you do not wish to be a part of PWNA, no problem, don’t.
Click to expand...

I haven't said that I do not wish to be a part, I have said I have debated the pros and cons and have not yet come to a decision. The "constant conspiracy" could be very easily dealt with by some straight answers from the BOD. That seems to be lacking here. It certainly isn't my right as a non-member to demand answers, but then again, non-members aren't the only ones who seem to have an issue with how the BOD has handled this situation.

Doc said:
If you are looking for information about what the BOD is doing then go to the website(s) or talk to a BOD member. If you are looking to expose mistakes the BOD has made in the past your focus is in the wrong place.
Click to expand...

The website doesn't deal with the questions posed here in this thread. Why can't we discuss it here, without the snide comments and the "hey, join if you want, but go to hell if you don't" attitude. That's certainly not the way to attract new members or to continue the growth the PWNA has enjoyed. As for exposing mistakes made in the past, I have no idea what those are, or any desire to expose them.

Doc said:
Have you made mistakes in the past or present? Would you mind sharing all of the things you felt could be considered by others a possible mistake based on the many interpretations? Lets also list those things you have done right but others feel it is a mistake.
Click to expand...

As I said, past mistakes aren't my focus. Where have I brought up past mistakes? I don't even know what those mistakes ARE....maybe you addressed this post to the wrong person??? Maybe you're referring to the couple of BOD members whose credibility and integrity I question? That has nothing to do with their actions or activity within the PWNA, and my statement was not intended to cast a shadow on the organization.

Doc said:
You might join if.......... You might join when........
Click to expand...

Yes, that is where I'm at. Problems with that? Many current members were surely at one time right where I'm at, debating the pros and cons and making a decision. I'm sure I'm not the only one, and to ignore the attitudes and the "mind your own business, this is BOD business" mentality would be stupid of me.

Doc said:
If you do not like what is going on or what direction PWNA is heading I strongly recommend you submit your bio to me now so I may submit your information for a vote by the membership for the BOD position. PWNA is currently review candidates for the BOD. We have 3 positions to fill. PWNA membership votes other members to the BOD position to represent the membership and the industry.
Click to expand...

I haven't questioned the direction the PWNA is heading, I don't really even know where that is. My questions have been concentrated on this one issue (for clarification of that issue, refer to the early posts in this thread).

Doc said:
You and others have been empowered by PWNA to make change through being a part of the process. PWNA has just put all of you in the drivers seat. Are you going to continue to talk or are you going to join the ranks of action?
Click to expand...

As I said, that decision will be made based on many things, including how very valid concerns are dealt with here in this forum.
 
I believe this thread has been taken off track, and respectfully ask all that are involved to remember what the topic is: Should the PWNA outsource it's certification programs?
Everybody take a deep breath and count to ten...
 
Thanks Grant.
With all taken into consideration, I dont think that anything anyone has to say will have any positive outcome. In testament to the current state of this thread, I am confident in my perception as accurate.

I for one have said my peace and it has fallen on deaf ears. Same ole same ole is still in effect and I as a member voice among others have been forsaken. I will waste no more time on this.

Good day.

Rod!~
 
This is an interesting topic. But I think the issue is a bit off of topic. The question here is simple... It is about the BOD members bidding on education. But I read the thread and the following thoughts came to mind.

I can't see why a non-member is so passionate about an organization's activities that they dont belong to.

This is a great new decade! There are other new organization's to join. Why waste so much time and energy on the PWNA. WRAPI is up an coming, looking for members. The UAMCC is started and is looking for members, We have options... pick the best deal that you can find.

But what comes next? People bashing UAMCC because it is distributer based and are intersted just in selling product or people complaining about WRAPI because all of the stock is owned by one person or poking fun at the fact that they are looking for a $100,000 sponsor / doner to name thier lodge after.

Realistically, I don't think that there will be a perfect org. If you dont like what the org is doing, join it and institute change or choose to join another.

Differences of opinion are acceptable. I have the right, like others, to question the decisions of the BOD and will do so as long as I am a member. It is the perfect org., not by a long shot..... But the reality is this, I took thier logo and networking contacts along with the other advise and postings of people like Squirtgun and oneness and other non-members and used it to make a ton of money last year.

The END result ($$$) justified the means.


In my past employment in management, I have had several employees some that were far from perfect. but I still kept them around because they made me money.

Back to the post at hand. I said it once earlier and I maintain the issue - The PWNA BOD nees to revisit the Education Bidding Process. I hope they hear the message.
 
I can't see why a non-member is so passionate about an organization's activities that they dont belong to.
Click to expand...

I never mean to pick on anyone. What if they are thinking of joining, or like me have put endless useless time in to a marketing campaign for others. This is part of the PWNA marketing program. Tomorrow they will have 10 more people investigate the PWNA and on wed or Thursday maybe 1 or 2 will join.


I did read your other comments.

Realistically, I don't think that there will be a perfect org. If you dont like what the org is doing, join it and institute change or choose to join another.
Click to expand...


There couldn’t be more truth ….



However they have made some mistakes in my opinion. The PWNA cannot keep secrets. I’m here to tell you they should stop trying and press release all info on there own web site.( they should refuse to answer anything until the project is finished) If something is even dreamt about and they are thinking of moving forward they should just open it up for all to see. Publish as much info with a date for the rest to follow. (Give yourself more time than necessary.)

We should have a public liaison and no BOD members should voice there opinions in public. This would eliminate any of these questions. The main thing is have someone record a marketing version of the idea and projects. Report and highlight the past ones. Talk and promote the futures ones. Develop a vision for the future.

Start with actually producing a business plan. Tie all the programs in training to lead to the same place. (Successful educated contractors.)


I want to say I have seen people cry corruption. I have seen many things go on in the past that are far worse than what is happening now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top