Formal request to add 2 more categories

[Hose Jockey]

"Its stuff to stand up when you are a minority and you know you are going to catch a lot of flack. Here is no different than the world we live in."

<SUP>18</SUP> “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. <SUP id=en-NKJV-26715 class=versenum>19</SUP> If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

When people start to give me a lot of "flack" I simply remind myself, it's not "me" they are rejecting, but Christ who created them. They deny their own creator ..sad! I pray for them all the more.

"If it was up the the Carnal World we live in....The only place we should talk about God is our Home and our Church."

Actually, if it is up to the "carnal world", the Obama lovers, and the ACLU, that is exactly what they are trying to make law. Mr. Obama flat out said to the world we are not a Christian country. Who gave him THAT authority I ask you??!! If they are not stopped, once they accomplish the above, they will push to make it illegal to worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit even within the walls of our own homes and churches! Watch and see.

Well, no matter what the liberals try to pass into the 'laws of man', my family and I will continue to default to the laws and statutes of what our Father has made covenant with us in His holy Word. I'd say God's laws pretty much trump man's. He created us, we didn't create Him, contrary to what Oprah preaches, but that's another sermon.

Joshua 24:15
...choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve... But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”


"Unfortunately, God commanded us to Share his Gospel of Salvation to the world."

On the contrary, I believe it is fortunate! This is a command directly from the lips of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

<SUP>18</SUP> And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. <SUP id=en-NKJV-24211 class=versenum>19</SUP> Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, <SUP id=en-NKJV-24212 class=versenum>20</SUP> teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


Good seeing you on here again Al, keep up the Good work!! :clapping:

 

[Hose Jockey]

God gave an organized religion to mankind years ago. It was called "The Law". It can be found in the first five books of the OT. It was so organized, it told the Israelites when they must work and when they must rest. It was so organized it specified meticulous sacrifices that had to be made at certain times. It told them who they could and couldn't have sex with and was pretty specific.

Yes Tony, I agree with you on this 100%. I do because this organization is completely founded on God's laws and how He intends us to live our lives through obedience so that we may fulfull the awesome plans he has created us for.

Unfortunately, 'organized religion' has evolved into many churches dictating laws of man, in the name of the church, to their congregations. Who gave them the right to add to the laws of a soveriegn God?? The Bible specifically says that anyone who adds to or takes away from it will be cursed. This is what I mean when I speak of 'organized religion'.

The original "Organized Religion" established by God and God alone is perfect, although unattainable by mere men ..one of the reasons Christ came to set us free from the law. The law is meant to be a mirror to show us the sin we need to repent of to bring us into right standing with the Father.

Some people feel they are religious people, ha!, Some even say, "I go to church religiously - every Christmas and every Easter". To them, that's being religious.

I feel modern religion can be a good 'starting point', however, it is like training wheels on a bike. The closer you study God's Word, the closer you grow to him in right relationship with him. The closer you grow in relationship with your Heavenly Father, the less you need the laws of men to tell you how to behave in a so called organized modern religion.

I admire all your input Tony! I think we could learn a lot from one another. :wink2:

 

[Tony Shelton]

I just finished a book called "The Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties". I don't think there are very many pacifist Christians on this forum, but I thought I'd share the author's amazing answer to one of the Bible "difficulties".

Here's the question:

How could a good God, a God of peace, condone warfare, give instructions as to how war should be fought, and be acclaimed by his people as "the Lord is a Warrior" (Exod. 15:3)?

Here's the answer (in part):

Underlying this question are certain assumptions that require careful examination as to their soundness. Is it really a manifestation of goodness to furnish no opposition to evil? Can we say that a truly good surgeon should do nothing to cut away cancerous tissue from his patient and simply allow him to go on suffering until finally he dies? Can we praise a police force that stands idly by and offers no slightest resistance to the armed robber, the rapist, the arsonist, or any other criminal who preys on society? How could God be called "good" if He forbade His people to protect their wives from ravishment and strangulation by drunken marauders, or to resist invaders who have come to pick up their children and dash out their brains against the wall?

No policy would give freer rein to wickedness and crime than a complete surrender of the right of self-defense on the part of the law-abiding members of society. No more effective way of promoting the cause of Satan and the powers of hell could be devised than depriving law-abiding citizens all the right of self-defense. It is hard to imagine how any deity could be thought "good" who would ordain such a policy of supine surrender to evil as that advocated by pacifism.

I've never been a pacifist. But this explanation of God's "goodness" in allowing us the right to defend ourselves against evil is one of the best I've heard.

Old Testament history regarding warfare also shows us that huddling inside your own country and waiting for the attack to come to you is foolish. Sometimes you have to step out and meet them in the road. Or if you know it is their plan to invade your home, it behooves you to go to them and destroy them first.

This country has bent over backwards trying to please all it's citizenry in fighting our wars. Our attacks are surgical in nature to keep killing of innocent bystanders to a minimum.

Maybe that has been a mistake.

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KuAvgo3zMUM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

 

[Tony Shelton]

I feel modern religion can be a good 'starting point', however, it is like training wheels on a bike. The closer you study God's Word, the closer you grow to him in right relationship with him. The closer you grow in relationship with your Heavenly Father, the less you need the laws of men to tell you how to behave in a so called organized modern religion.

Mark, that describes my belief perfectly. Well said, you said in one paragraph what took me a whole page to say.

 

[Tony Shelton]

By this time most guys who don't believe are probably just ignoring this thread. With that in mind I'd like to ask whoever is left what this image makes you think:

1) initiallly
2) after taking a look at it and thinking about it.

Thanks:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rinkratz/4462966909/

 

[Lou hoods&more]

<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KuAvgo3zMUM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

Allah rap needs some cowbell:dance:

 

[Al Patterson]

By this time most guys who don't believe are probably just ignoring this thread. With that in mind I'd like to ask whoever is left what this image makes you think:

1) initiallly
2) after taking a look at it and thinking about it.

Thanks:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rinkratz/4462966909/

At first glance to me it says what ever we do our body we are doing to Jesus.
Tony,I think they are more than you think that read and have enjoyed this thread... just not quite ready to express openly

 

[Tony Shelton]

At first glance to me it says what ever we do our body we are doing to Jesus.
Tony,I think they are more than you think that read and have enjoyed this thread... just not quite ready to express openly

I've never gotten a tattoo in my life. But I'm thinking about getting this put on my forearm to remind me that Christ lives in me. And whatever I do to myself or to others I'm doing it to Christ.

I've never seen a more powerful illustration of that.

I don't care what my customers think. Our time on this earth is too short to worry about junk like that. Life is much more than making money.

 

[Scott Stone]

I believe our bodies can be considered temples, and anything to modify our bodies amounts to desecration. Just my view on tattoo's. I know I am VERY conservative when it comes to that, and piercings.

 

[Tony Shelton]

I believe our bodies can be considered temples, and anything to modify our bodies amounts to desecration. Just my view on tattoo's. I know I am VERY conservative when it comes to that, and piercings.

That's what I thought too. Until I read an article from a minister I've respected for years due to his thorough and common sense studies of the bible. I believe he's right when he says the rule in Leviticus about cutting and tattooing was specifically to combat those forms of idol worship.

If I do this it is only to remind me of the God I worship and will be done in his honor.

Sometimes a visible reminder is all it takes. I have always had a hot temper and raised my voice too easily. Until we got Max, the chihuahua. Max knows when I'm getting angry and gets up and moves away before I even get started. I can't tell you how many times that visual assistance has stopped me in my tracks before I even got to the point of raising my voice. I thank God for Max almost daily because his present in our home has made it a lot more tranquil place to be.

I know it sounds stupid, but some of us don't have the brains to just simply use self control. Some of us need reminders.

Here is the tattoo article:

http://www.zianet.com/maxey/reflx438.htm

 

[joshuabcrutcher]

I believe our bodies can be considered temples, and anything to modify our bodies amounts to desecration. Just my view on tattoo's. I know I am VERY conservative when it comes to that, and piercings.

I agree with Scott on this one. I haven't read the article you posted yet but I think there is much we can take from modern religion and "organized religion". I recognize I am in no way perfect and make mistakes daily. But I like to think of sin as a "line in the sand" - one side sin and the other not. I can stand pretty close to the line without technically sinning. But I can also stand back several steps from the line and be safer.

I truly believe GOD knows what is in your heart and your actions are judged ONLY BY HIM and that is between you and the LORD. I can have peace in that but my reason would say "don't do it".

Tony, you and GOD know where your heart is and that is what is important. For me, I have considered tatoos as a reminder of Christ in my life. I will never do so because I don't want to be hypocritical and confusing to those less informed Christians seeking the Lord.

I like how this thread is used!

 

[Hose Jockey]

Hi Tony,

That's what I thought too. Until I read an article from a minister I've respected for years due to his thorough and common sense studies of the bible. I believe he's right when he says the rule in Leviticus about cutting and tattooing was specifically to combat those forms of idol worship.

I'm not saying if you and this minister are correct or incorrect, however, I do strongly agree with Scott in that our bodies (as believers) ARE temples of God and should not be altered in any form unless it is for health reasons. To do so states "to God" that well, you did a pretty good job knitting me in my mother's womb Lord, but I can improve on your work. That is pride, and pride is what caused Lucifer's downfall.

For those who believe and have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit dwells within us. 1 John 4:4b "..Greater is He who lives in me than he who lives in the world." Therefore, what ever we do to ourselves, we do to God DIRECTLY. Would you tatoo God?? If we chose to have adulterous affairs, we automatically drag the Holy Spirit into the adultry as well because He lives within us. You can not simply take Him off if you decide to operate outside of His will.

If I do this it is only to remind me of the God I worship and will be done in his honor.

Tatooing, cutting, altering yourself is defiling God's temple. Would you graffitti your church to remind yourself of all our Father has done for you? Would this honor Him??

Sometimes a visible reminder is all it takes.

If you want "visible" reminders just look around you at your family, your walk, the marvelous works He's done in your life and the mirey clay He's pulled you out of. Look at the stars He's created and knows them ALL by name!! Now THAT'S a visual reminder.

What the customer thinks is not the issue, it's what your creator thinks. Seek him rather than the minister before you decide on marking your body.

Many times in the Bible, marks of believers are ordained BY God, not man.

Food for thought Tony.

Blessings, :wave3:
Mark

 

[Scott D.]

Originally Posted by Tony Shelton

Originally Posted by Al Patterson


This really bothers me, because it is in direct conflict with the Bible. What ever happened to fasting, study, and prayer? It works. In fact, I fell pretty comfortable in saying that if someone tells you that you should not pray about something, that that person is not a man of God, but of the devil, because only the devil would tell you to not talk to God.

Scott, are you saying that a non-believer is a man of the devil because he would advise someone not to prasy about something?

 

[Al Patterson]

Scott, are you saying that a non-believer is a man of the devil because he would advise someone not to prasy about something?

In my humble opinion
A non believer in not of the devil ...they are someone (at that time in his life )that has not accepted Jesus Christ as their Personal Saviour.

We are all Gods Children and he has always accepted us ....it is us that choose not to accept his free gift of Salvation.
The only reason someone would tell us not to pray or talk or speak about God is maybe they have not come to point in their life where their ready to surrender all to God

 

[Hose Jockey]

Scott, are you saying that a non-believer is a man of the devil because he would advise someone not to prasy about something?

Scott D.,

I can't speak for Scott, but I think what he's trying to say may be this..

A "man of the devil" does not automatically encompass ALL "unbelievers". However, the Bible tells us to test all spirits and if someone is trying to purposely steer you away from your relationship with God and His counsel (prayer), then that person in particular is, at a minimum, being influenced by forces of darkness which are trying to come between you and the LORD. They are at the very least, a distraction from your relationship with your Father.

Hope this helps. :scratchhead:

 

[Al Patterson]

on a side note..I saw my Dad killed on a farming accident 31yrs ago and my Mom died in my arms of lung cancer 17yrs ago.
On this Mothers day I want to acknowledge my Mom who if it was not for her ....I would not be the person that I am today.
My Mom was a strong Christian woman who was persecuted relentlessly, but as much as she went through it made her faith stronger and I remember she would always remind me that Jesus was persecuted and he sinned not.
1. John 15:20, 21 - “Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. “But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.”
In this world the bible says their is going to be a wide path and a very narrow path and most of the people are going to be mislead or deceived to take the wide path to destruction.
One day I would hope this Thread would help change someones life and would accept Christ as their personal Saviour.
Thanks for Leading me in the right direction Mom.
Happy Mothers Day!

 

[Tony Shelton]

Hi Tony,

That's what I thought too. Until I read an article from a minister I've respected for years due to his thorough and common sense studies of the bible. I believe he's right when he says the rule in Leviticus about cutting and tattooing was specifically to combat those forms of idol worship.

I'm not saying if you and this minister are correct or incorrect, however, I do strongly agree with Scott in that our bodies (as believers) ARE temples of God and should not be altered in any form unless it is for health reasons. To do so states "to God" that well, you did a pretty good job knitting me in my mother's womb Lord, but I can improve on your work. That is pride, and pride is what caused Lucifer's downfall. If I were to get this tattoo, you can believe there's no pride involved. It would be a daily reminder of the shame the Jesus takes away from me continually. It may cause some negative connotations, but it may strike up conversations that lead to life.

For those who believe and have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit dwells within us. 1 John 4:4b "..Greater is He who lives in me than he who lives in the world." Therefore, what ever we do to ourselves, we do to God DIRECTLY. Would you tatoo God?? If we chose to have adulterous affairs, we automatically drag the Holy Spirit into the adultry as well because He lives within us. You can not simply take Him off if you decide to operate outside of His will. I see you grasp the point of the art. That's exactly what it is saying.

If I do this it is only to remind me of the God I worship and will be done in his honor.

Tatooing, cutting, altering yourself is defiling God's temple. Would you graffitti your church to remind yourself of all our Father has done for you? Would this honor Him?? I don't understand where you get this from the word of God. The only mention of anything like that is in Leviticus. Leviticus also condemns:
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
People who are blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
You shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. (Leviticus 18:19)
Are we sinning when we do these things today? What if we eat pork or shellfish? We are under a different law today. I agree that the old testament shows us what God likes and dislikes. But it is up to us to determine which of those laws had to do with idol worship or other immorality and if they still have the same connotation today.

Sometimes a visible reminder is all it takes.

If you want "visible" reminders just look around you at your family, your walk, the marvelous works He's done in your life and the mirey clay He's pulled you out of. Look at the stars He's created and knows them ALL by name!! Now THAT'S a visual reminder. Maybe that's enough for you. I've not reached that point yet. I may never reach that point. Thank God I am covered by his grace till I get there.

What the customer thinks is not the issue, it's what your creator thinks. Seek him rather than the minister before you decide on marking your body. A series of recent events has pointed me in this direction. Since my life revolves around trying to be pleasing to my Lord and asking for his direction I'm comfortable in my decision. (Now since it may be cost prohibitive, the Lord may make the choice for me in that manner. :sarcastic:

Many times in the Bible, marks of believers are ordained BY God, not man.

Food for thought Tony.

Blessings, :wave3:
Mark

Hello Mark, I appreciate your thoughts on this. I added some comments above in blue. Thanks Mark, for you input. I will restudy this before I make a commitment.

 

[Tony Shelton]

I'm reading an old book on the flood called "The Genesis Flood" by Whitcomb and Morris. I don't often read books more than once. Usually I read them and give them away. But for some reason I held on to this one over the years and this is my third reading.

I have a question for the evolution believers out there.

If man has been on the earth for 100,000 years how did we only have 200 million people on the earth by the end of the first 98,000 years and then spurt to over 6 billion in the next 2,000 years?

http://geography.about.com/od/obtainpopulationdata/a/worldpopulation.htm

On the other hand, if we were created 6,000 years ago, wiped completely out except for 8 human beings 4,500 years ago wouldn't it seem more plausible to go from 8 to 200 million in 2500 years then grow exponentially to over 6 billion over the next 2000 years?

Even if lifespan were only 30 years this planet would have been overwhelmed by the end of 50,000 years! Do the math and see what I'm talking about.

Further, If one wants to claim the cataclysmic wiping out of huge populations that begs the question - Why didn't man go extinct in all those years if it took him 98,000 years just to reach 200 million?

 

[Scott Stone]

Scott, are you saying that a non-believer is a man of the devil because he would advise someone not to prasy about something?

A better question is, if I did say that, would it matter to a non believer, or atheist? If it matters, then he believes in God, because there can be no devil without God, and you really cannot fear God, if you don't believe in Him. If it doesn't matter, it would not matter if someone prayed because it would be an act of deep meditation, and personal soul searching.

 

[Hose Jockey]

Hi Tony,



Hello Mark, I appreciate your thoughts on this. I added some comments above in blue. Thanks Mark, for you input. I will restudy this before I make a commitment.

Tatooing, cutting, altering yourself is defiling God's temple. Would you graffitti your church to remind yourself of all our Father has done for you? Would this honor Him?? I don't understand where you get this from the word of God.

I get this from the New Testement in 1 Corinthians 6. <SUP>19</SUP>Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; <SUP id=en-NIV-28472 class=versenum>20</SUP>you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

The Holy Spirit "dwells" in us. In John 16 Jesus told his disciples he would soon leave them, but he would send another "like" him who would live in them forevermore, therefore if you tatoo yourself, in a sense, you tatoo Jesus as well.

Here is my feeling about the cost of the tatoo. That money would better glorify God by being directed to the mission field to bring several souls to Christ. Just my humble opinion.