Formal request to add 2 more categories

All of the denominations were formed in an attempt to get back to the original teachings of Christ. The greatest break away from teh Catholic church was at the time of Martin Luther, because he realized that they had strayed far from the Bible. Other churches started breaking off from them, too, such as the Anglican or Episcopal church being formed because the King wanted a divorce, and the pope would not grant it, or others that formed their own church because they felt it was a great way to get gain. Incidentally, this is why the original church was corrupted, but it wasn't money, but power they sought. They all have some truth, but until a church is set up as the ancient church, with a prophet, apostles, Evangelists, teachers, etc. they cannot have all truth. A curious thing is that they are nearly all a break off from the Catholic Church, because, it is the church established at the counsel of Nicea by Constantine, who was a pagan. This is the start of the great "falling away" prophesied in the New Testament. (2 thessalonians 2:3) So, any reestablished church cannot have roots back to the Catholic Church. Want to guess which church I feel that is?
Which goes back to the need for one church...There was one church, although, even in biblical times there were problems with people trying to change the belief system that Christ set up. Constantine really threw a wrench in the works, trying to control the masses, through the church. He was a pagan, and found religion to be the best way to control the masses. He instituted many pagan traditions that were instituted into the new church, which is why we celebrate Christmas and Christs' birth in December, instead of at the time of Passover, which is April.
This is also where the trinity concept was rammed down the throat of the church. Before that time, everyone believed that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were separate and distinct entities. They are all gods, but there is only one God of this world. Notice the differentiation of little G, big G. This was also part of the pagan tradition that there was only great spirit. (Acts 7:55-56)(Romans 8:34)(Hebrews 12:2)

Now, Welder, every major religion, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, even the ancient American religions, etc. have a Messianic figure in them. Most of them, in fact, all but Christianity, are still waiting for that figure to appear. I believe that is one major thing that separates Christianity from the rest, and at its' base makes it the one true religion.
 
Scott Stone said:
All of the denominations were formed in an attempt to get back to the original teachings of Christ. The greatest break away from teh Catholic church was at the time of Martin Luther, because he realized that they had strayed far from the Bible. Other churches started breaking off from them, too, such as the Anglican or Episcopal church being formed because the King wanted a divorce, and the pope would not grant it, or others that formed their own church because they felt it was a great way to get gain. Incidentally, this is why the original church was corrupted, but it wasn't money, but power they sought. They all have some truth, but until a church is set up as the ancient church, with a prophet, apostles, Evangelists, teachers, etc. they cannot have all truth. A curious thing is that they are nearly all a break off from the Catholic Church, because, it is the church established at the counsel of Nicea by Constantine, who was a pagan. This is the start of the great "falling away" prophesied in the New Testament. (2 thessalonians 2:3) So, any reestablished church cannot have roots back to the Catholic Church. Want to guess which church I feel that is?
Which goes back to the need for one church...There was one church, although, even in biblical times there were problems with people trying to change the belief system that Christ set up. Constantine really threw a wrench in the works, trying to control the masses, through the church. He was a pagan, and found religion to be the best way to control the masses. He instituted many pagan traditions that were instituted into the new church, which is why we celebrate Christmas and Christs' birth in December, instead of at the time of Passover, which is April.
This is also where the trinity concept was rammed down the throat of the church. Before that time, everyone believed that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were separate and distinct entities. They are all gods, but there is only one God of this world. Notice the differentiation of little G, big G. This was also part of the pagan tradition that there was only great spirit. (Acts 7:55-56)(Romans 8:34)(Hebrews 12:2)

Now, Welder, every major religion, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Shintoism, even the ancient American religions, etc. have a Messianic figure in them. Most of them, in fact, all but Christianity, are still waiting for that figure to appear. I believe that is one major thing that separates Christianity from the rest, and at its' base makes it the one true religion.
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So you agree???
What church??
Thoughts on Trinity?
 
Al Patterson said:
So you agree???
What church??
Thoughts on Trinity?
Click to expand...

Agree with what? I agree with what I wrote, which is accordance with the Bible. I thought I explained the trinity to you.
 
Russ Spence said:
Scott is a Mormon, you can figure out the rest if you know theology.
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Sorry Theology is one of my week areas....
I personly don't know exactly what Mormans believe or for that matter any other ones that was mentioned earlier.
A lot of the times I try to follow Scotts and Tony's post ....I'll just say I admire y'all for the knowledge you know and share....the trick is put it as a child can understand it!!
I know it hards for me to understand and digest sometimes....then again some can't even comprehend anything the bible says (Spiritually).
remember....there is no such thing as a dumb question!!
Hopefully I will understand more as we go along!!
 
Quite a few guys on here have asked me what I believe. I've been attending Canyon Ridge Christian Church here in Las Vegas for about 6 years.

Having grown up in a church that taught me that every one at Canyon Ridge is going to hell because they use musical instruments, or allow women to serve as ushers, etc Canyon Ridge was a big scary step of faith for me. But when I got there I found a lot of people just simply putting their faith in Jesus. I found a home.

That step of faith came after I began to understand how to follow Love instead of Law.

Today our minister explained it better than I ever could.

If you're not interested in hearing it, Please just go back to another thread. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here, just trying to answer what I've been asked before.

For anyone who is interested click on the link below, then go to third video "Message - New Way". If you want to get to the meat of it, start at the ten minute mark.
(When you're done, the second video with the girl singing is pretty good too)
http://www.canyonridge.org/default.aspx?page=9480
 
Tony Shelton said:
Having grown up in a church that taught me that every one at Canyon Ridge is going to hell because they use musical instruments, or allow women to serve as ushers, etc
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So........ You grew up southern baptist?

This is not a knock to anyone, or any denomination! Just a question to Tony
 
Jonathan Ellis said:
So........ You grew up southern baptist?

This is not a knock to anyone, or any denomination! Just a question to Tony
Click to expand...

Church of Christ.

I even attended this preaching school:

http://www.msop.org/index.php

If you want to get an idea of what kind of guys this school is looking for click on "application".

This isn't the FULL application. (unless they've changed it since I was there) The full application is about 10 pages of theological questions asked you to see if you are of the right "mindset". (or if you are in fact "unsaved" because of some misunderstanding you might have.)

I have nothing against anyone in the church of Christ. However, I do believe their leadership is teaching salvation by works.

The church of Christ expanded during the 50's as people looked for guidance and that church offered cut and dry - yes and no - answers to most questions. There were over 2 million members then. They believed that one must be a member or they could not be saved. Drill down a little deeper and the circle of saved got smaller and smaller as they cannibalized themselves and cut off ties to different groups within the church of Christ who took communion from more than one cup, had a kitchen in their building, gave money to orphan homes and other such.........issues.

Today, a small minority of the hard-core self-proclaimed "conservatives" have practically wiped out the church of Christ. Disillusioned and hurting former members are searching for new church homes.

With youtube, and the rest of the internet this world is marching into a time of opportunity like never before.

Without the media filtering information (media including television producers and networks) we now have access to more information than ever before. We have a movement growing in this country to bring all Christians together under one roof.

This hasn't happened since the 1800's and the Great Awakening.

Prior to that Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church - the resulting groups ended in chaos and split apart. The great awakening era sought to bring everyone back together, but when information could only be gathered by listening to different traveling ministers, the attempt at restoration failed.

Now that call is coming through again and we have the tools to answer the call.

The splintering and warring groups are why Christianity looks so ridiculous to those outside the groups.

We have an opportunity over the next 20 years (before they tax the internet into the ground) to rid ourselves of the suspicion and hatred of others who just simply want to be Christians.

Everyone is at a different place in their faith. If I said I wanted to disown my daughter, Fayth, because she doesn't drive to work you'd think I was nuts. She can't drive to work, she hasn't reached the point in her life where she can do that.

How is that any different from disowning a fellow Christian because he doesn't believe something I believe doctrinally? Maybe he hasn't reached that point in his life. Maybe it is I who hasn't reached HIS point in MY life.

This is a pivotal time that rests in our hands. We should do our part.

I think that in our lifetimes we will see hundreds of denominations breaking barriers and joining hands as one. It's already starting to happen.
 
Tonight we are celebrating the Jewish Seder (Passover). Not because we think we are required to, but simply as a teaching tool for our kids. We are a day late with it, but somehow I don't think the Lord will mind.

It's been a week of study just to understand all the difference elements of the passover. This study turned into a very productive conversation between Shelly and me.

Shelly mentioned that all the ritual was very confusing and that she couldn't see how any of the Israelites could have gotten all of it straight in order to be pleasing to God.

CAUTION: Below I am stating my belief:

I explained to her that the reason for the "Law of Moses" or the "Pentateuch" was to show that no matter how hard we try, as human beings, we cannot keep all the rules exactly right and we cannot act in accordance with God's will 100% of the time. Things get in our way, like opinions and disagreements on what the will of God really is.

Have you ever wondered how Jesus was "sinless"? Jesus WAS God and AS God and he knew God's will without the filter of other opinions and influences. For example he knew that it was God's will to heal (Jesus' work) on the Sabbath even though the "letter" of God's law forbade work on the Sabbath.

No one prior to Jesus got it all right and no one since his time here on earth have gotten it all right.

The complication of the Law serves as a reminder that it is impossible to "earn" our way to heaven by getting it all right.

So, tonight and tomorrow we will be celebrating the Passover as historically accurately as we can. We are going to learn how God took a select group of people into his care and released them from slavery and kept their race safe through 40 years in the wilderness.

We are going to learn how, over 1000 years in advance, elements of the passover meal tie directly to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and will marvel at the accuracy of the picture the passover painted of the sacrifice of Jesus.

We are going to take the time to thank God for keeping his net of safety over us as we went through some truly trying times during 2009.

And lastly we are going to thank him for sending his son to live as one of us here on the earth and for giving his life as a sacrifice to ensure that we are not required to be perfect to gain his favor.

Happy Easter!:smile:
 
And Happy Pesach!
 
Tony Shelton said:
Tonight we are celebrating the Jewish Seder (Passover). Not because we think we are required to, but simply as a teaching tool for our kids. We are a day late with it, but somehow I don't think the Lord will mind.

It's been a week of study just to understand all the difference elements of the passover. This study turned into a very productive conversation between Shelly and me.

Shelly mentioned that all the ritual was very confusing and that she couldn't see how any of the Israelites could have gotten all of it straight in order to be pleasing to God.

CAUTION: Below I am stating my belief:

I explained to her that the reason for the "Law of Moses" or the "Pentateuch" was to show that no matter how hard we try, as human beings, we cannot keep all the rules exactly right and we cannot act in accordance with God's will 100% of the time. Things get in our way, like opinions and disagreements on what the will of God really is.

Have you ever wondered how Jesus was "sinless"? Jesus WAS God and AS God and he knew God's will without the filter of other opinions and influences. For example he knew that it was God's will to heal (Jesus' work) on the Sabbath even though the "letter" of God's law forbade work on the Sabbath.

No one prior to Jesus got it all right and no one since his time here on earth have gotten it all right.

The complication of the Law serves as a reminder that it is impossible to "earn" our way to heaven by getting it all right.

So, tonight and tomorrow we will be celebrating the Passover as historically accurately as we can. We are going to learn how God took a select group of people into his care and released them from slavery and kept their race safe through 40 years in the wilderness.

We are going to learn how, over 1000 years in advance, elements of the passover meal tie directly to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and will marvel at the accuracy of the picture the passover painted of the sacrifice of Jesus.

We are going to take the time to thank God for keeping his net of safety over us as we went through some truly trying times during 2009.

And lastly we are going to thank him for sending his son to live as one of us here on the earth and for giving his life as a sacrifice to ensure that we are not required to be perfect to gain his favor.

Happy Easter!:smile:
Click to expand...

Good Post Tony!!
 
How awesome that the history of Isreal is a picture of Gods' plan fulfilled in Jesus. Much more impressive than just saying a prediction when people live the prediction. And the details of the rituals and rules - Its almost endless and its breathtaking to see the 'hidden' message in all of it. These writings, over eons, conveying a greater message, is to me reasonable 'proof' of the divine nature of the bible. Another reason you don't need to leave your intellect when you become a Christian, it's not blind faith but reasonable faith.

Here's one I really like Tony. The law of Moses prescribes a sacrifice to be done when a leper is healed. Now I'm pretty sure no one was ever healed of leprosy before ever. So when Jesus healed some lepers he told them to go to the priests (the first lepers didn't go). Now leprosy was always symbolic of sin and they were 'separated' as we are from God. So the ritual was to take two doves, kill one in an earthen vessel over running water (living water), dip wood (cross), wool (lamb of God), hyssop (healing herb) and the live dove in the blood and then the bird was set free. What could this 'nonsense' possibly have meant to the people who faithfully carried every word for generations?

http://hubpages.com/hub/TorahProphesiesofthemessiah

Happy Easter!
 
tomtucson said:
How awesome that the history of Isreal is a picture of Gods' plan fulfilled in Jesus. Much more impressive than just saying a prediction when people live the prediction. And the details of the rituals and rules - Its almost endless and its breathtaking to see the 'hidden' message in all of it. These writings, over eons, conveying a greater message, is to me reasonable 'proof' of the divine nature of the bible. Another reason you don't need to leave your intellect when you become a Christian, it's not blind faith but reasonable faith.

Here's one I really like Tony. The law of Moses prescribes a sacrifice to be done when a leper is healed. Now I'm pretty sure no one was ever healed of leprosy before ever. So when Jesus healed some lepers he told them to go to the priests (the first lepers didn't go). Now leprosy was always symbolic of sin and they were 'separated' as we are from God. So the ritual was to take two doves, kill one in an earthen vessel over running water (living water), dip wood (cross), wool (lamb of God), hyssop (healing herb) and the live dove in the blood and then the bird was set free. What could this 'nonsense' possibly have meant to the people who faithfully carried every word for generations?

http://hubpages.com/hub/TorahProphesiesofthemessiah

Happy Easter!
Click to expand...

Wow!.....
 
Killing the dove inside a clay pot is the one that really really gets me!
 
Having grown up in a religion where the highest emphasis is put on "worshipping" exactly right in order to "please God" I was stunned to find out that the wine used in the Lord's passover (where he introduced the "Lord's Supper" or communion) was not part of the original passover meal command nor was it officially added by God anywhere in the bible. The wine was a human innovation added later. It was an innovation added from necessity (hard to eat a meal without something to drink) but it does go to show that God not only can approve some human innovation, but he put his stamp of approval on it when Jesus himself used that very innovation to institute a new observance. (communion).

It was also brought up last night that the new covenant Jesus ushered in was a simple one. For communion he simply used two elements that were right in front of him, bread and wine. Nothing fancy, but good enough representations of body and blood for centuries to come.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Having grown up in a religion where the highest emphasis is put on "worshipping" exactly right in order to "please God" I was stunned to find out that the wine used in the Lord's passover (where he introduced the "Lord's Supper" or communion) was not part of the original passover meal command nor was it officially added by God anywhere in the bible. The wine was a human innovation added later. It was an innovation added from necessity (hard to eat a meal without something to drink) but it does go to show that God not only can approve some human innovation, but he put his stamp of approval on it when Jesus himself used that very innovation to institute a new observance. (communion).

It was also brought up last night that the new covenant Jesus ushered in was a simple one. For communion he simply used two elements that were right in front of him, bread and wine. Nothing fancy, but good enough representations of body and blood for centuries to come.
Click to expand...

All of this was an interpretation of what was said and what was written. There are so many different views and beliefs of religion that it makes it impossible for anyone to know what the truth really is. I am not an atheist but the more I read about the catholic church and the horrors of their leaders the more difficult it becomes to be a catholic.

I can only believe that GOD will understand how I feel, and forgive me for not worshiping in a place where men of GOD take advantage of children of GOD !!
 
The Cleaner said:
All of this was an interpretation of what was said and what was written. There are so many different views and beliefs of religion that it makes it impossible for anyone to know what the truth really is. I am not an atheist but the more I read about the catholic church and the horrors of their leaders the more difficult it becomes to be a catholic.

I can only believe that GOD will understand how I feel, and forgive me for not worshiping in a place where men of GOD take advantage of children of GOD !!
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as a Born Again Christian....it is not imposable to know what the Truth really is.

Simply put the "Truth is God's Word"
some just pull things out of content for their own benefit.
 
Al Patterson said:
as a Born Again Christian....it is not imposable to know what the Truth really is.

Simply put the "Truth is God's Word"
some just pull things out of content for their own benefit.
Click to expand...

Al, I don't know how gravity works. It would seem logical that a spinning object would throw things off of it rather than make things stick to it.

But I know this truth - - If I jump off a building, I'm going to fall to the ground - - That's basically all I really need to know.

I don't know exactly what God wants from us. I don't even know if God doesn't like smoking, some drinking, some drug use, some types of worship, other things his law never touches on, etc, etc, the list goes on and on. There was plenty of similar stuff going on in the old testament with some of his biggest characters in the Bible yet God seemed to still see fit to use them in his plan.

But I do know this truth. IF the bible is true (and I believe it to be true) God wants us to love and respect him, love and respect his son, and love and respect our neighbors. If we (as Christians) work towards those three things his spirit will not let us die in sins that we simply don't understand.

For example if I love my neighbor (18 yr old girl) I'm not going to conspire to have sex with her. First because that would not be showing love for my wife. Second that would not be showing love for my neighbor (with the chance of an illegitimate child) and rising on up to the Third level, that would not be showing love for God who (out of love for us) gave us the guideline that we should not commit adultery to keep us out of a LOT of EXTRA misery.

Can we know all truth? Or are the three truths above enough for us to make the right decisions that are pleasing to God?

I don't know all the truth Al. I don't think I need to know it all.
 
Tony, Please do not post any pictures of your neighbor here! This is a public forum.
 
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