The verdict is in !

JMSC said:
guys, maybe you are right. I dont make near the money you guys probably do, I have a few accounts ive had for years, kind of been out of the scene. If you are really husling like you must be you probably see a lot more of what your saying is hurting our industry.

One more thing, of all the years weve been in business, only one of my dads employees ever went into business for himself and he was trained. This is out of hundreds of people that didnt. So, I just dont see new people getting into this stuff. Used to, someone had to know how to at least put one of these rigs together, now of course, you can buy one set up. Maybe thats part of the problem.
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I WOULD VOTE YES .. . . AND I"M NEW!!!!

if licensing and ins. (both which i already have) were required . . .fine
I think that if it could keep joe blow out of my area cool . . . but i think that just by requiring ins. you aren't going to stop people blasting a house, deck, truck, dog what ever it may be with 3,000 PSI. . . Michael and i see a prime example of this every day . . . OUR local supplier DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT A 40 ORIFICE TIP IS!!!! SO i think that it would knock out the low ballers just not sure how its going to knock out the dumb asses that don't know any better. . . I mean Its not hard nor REAL expensive to get into BUT Just becasue you have a lic. and ins. YA your legally a PW Co. but you aren't in my eyes a LEGIT PW Co.
 
That's true but if licensing is required and you trash someones house, they can pull your license so you can't do it again. Plus your insurance will cover the damages and raise your rates. If you get caught PW without a license the fines you could get could land you in jail. Either way, the fines, jail terms and increased insurance would chase most hacks out of the biz.
 
That's true but if licensing is required and you trash someones house, they can pull your license so you can't do it again. Plus your insurance will cover the damages and raise your rates. If you get caught PW without a license the fines you could get could land you in jail.
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Henry, how does this stop the folks who go to Lowes and buy a PW and start cleaning? If you aren't licensed or insured, how are they gonna take away your license or raise insurance rates? Put you in jail? Don't think thats ever going to happen.
Let's be realistic here folks, we're not electricians, or plumbers, or carpenters. Many can do electrical work, plumbing, and carpentry, but the work gets inspected and you have to pull a permit to do the work. Our industry will never get to that point for general cleaning. If that were the case, every custodian would require a license, because they clean things.

Minnesota requires you to hold a Special Engineers license to operate a boiler up to 100hp. Every hot water rig is in fact a boiler, and I do hold this license. I'd bet 99% of the pressure washers in the state do not hold this license. So, in effect I may be one of the few pressure washer operators in my entire state to be abiding by this licensing requirement. The truth of the matter is that no one is ever going to enforce it. Check your state to see if you need a license to operate the equipment you've used for years;)
 
Actually Mike, in Maryland they can and will put you in jail for operating without a license. Three years in jail AND/OR a 5,000 fine if I remember correctly.

If consumers know that your required to have a license and insurance to PW they will ask for yours in this area at least.. Right now all anyone has to say is MHIC doesn't require a license for power washing.

I'm not sure about the boiler thing if it's true in Maryland that would be interesting. Pressure washers alone can be dangerous though I've seen them cut right through skin.

Lets face it, pressure washers are pretty dangerous tools if your not careful. If your working on someone elses home there should be some responsibility to protect them by having insurance.
 
Actually Mike, in Maryland they can and will put you in jail for operating without a license. Three years in jail AND/OR a 5,000 fine if I remember correctly.
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Wow, thats tough.
How about all the so called "handyman" business operators? They pretty much do anything and everything, but I don't believe you need a license for that. What I'm getting at is this; If its a function that a homeowner could do themselves with the right equipment, but they chose to hire it out, it probably won't require a license. Think painting, pressure washing, lawn mowing, snow plowing, deck staining, etc.. (all dangerous in their own ways). Most of the so called "licensed professions" are jobs that most average Joe's wouldn't want to take on themselves because of the perceived dangers involved to themselves or their property.

I'd be in favor of a license if for anything, to ensure that folks who operate machinery such as ours, are aware of the dangers involved to themselves. My Special Engineer license was a difficult test that really required me to study prior to taking. I'm very mechanically inclined, but I learned a lot. 44 people in my testing class, and only 12 of us passed. I now can repair my own equipment safely and effectively, without worrying if I did it right or not. Pressure can kill.

To address the insurance issue, no government agency is stepping in to ensure that anyone working at my home is insured, it's up to me to make sure. That's why many homeowners use referral services like SM.

I would support licensing for sure, but in truth I think it's a pipe dream.
 
Big Mike said:
To address the insurance issue, no government agency is stepping in to ensure that anyone working at my home is insured, it's up to me to make sure. That's why many homeowners use referral services like SM.
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Where similar here as it is where Henry lives. We need to be License and Insured to do this business. The above Quote is not true here. IF you are caught operating a powerwashing business without a License/Insurance and if you get caught the first time the fine is substantial. The second time you get caught your looking at some Jail time along with the fine.

So how do you get caught...well one of the ways is to mess up a job. Unless you remedy the situation the homeowner can and will report you. Now your in trouble. Now for the biggest way people get nailed here without operating with a current Lic/Ins------THRU THERE ADVERTISING!!!!! Consumer affairs checks the yellow pages,Pennysavers etc etc to see if those companies are recorded in having a valid lic and insurance filed in there county where there advertising. If not there notified that they have to appear and its at this time that these companies/Individuals will be fined. And this is easy money for the Consumer affairs division to collect.

So once again the above QUOTE here is not true. This is why I always supported lic/Ins here and also in the lic fee a portion of that fee is set aside to help Contractors in need here for various reasons.

Lic and the very least Insurance will weed out the hacks who try to advertise without it and to make good money in this business Marketing/Advertising is critical!!!!
 
...parts of TGS are open and parts are member only....

The word LEARN has the word EARN in it.
If you want to EARN you need to LEARN.
This means doing things yourself as well.
One of my biggest pet peeves is handing over things I have worked hard on, to someone who has done nothing to learn why you need to do what you do.
Anyone can be a parrot...doesn't mean you understand the "why" of what you are doing.

Beth :)
 
In Maryland Handyman services have to be licensed as well. If you even tighten a nail or screw on a residential property, you have to have a home improvement license. You don't need one to clean gutters, but if you tighten a nail on them you need a license.

Any company that is required to have an MHIC license is also required to run it in any ads they run, on their trucks and on all of their company literature.

It sounds like I live in a really strict state compared to MN!
 
What gets me, and Henry I'm sure you have run into this, is that some homeowners don't see why they need to hire a licensed contractor. It seems like for some home owners the savings outweighs the risk. I don't get that.

Beth
 
Well the question begging to be asked is, why aren't all states on the same page when it comes to business licensing? MN likes to think of itself as "progressive", but I'm seeing that we are really not. By the way, MN is pretty darn strict when it comes to taxes:mad:

Henry, I wasn't trying to bust your balls at all, just making some practical points on licensing requirements. I think in MN you DO need a license to be a handyman, but the vast majority either don't or do not advertise it. Home remodelers, roofers, siding and window guys, etc., are licensed but many other professions don't require it. I guess I've never heard of any enforcement actions here, because it would be a great deterrent to unlicensed contractors. Believe me, there's a lot of hacks up here. I'd love to be able to weed some of them out.

I think the focus was about being some kind of licensed pressure washer, not having a business license per se. I think that's two different animals. Business licensing should be mandatory nationwide, but unfortunately, it is not. A pressure washing license would be akin to an electricians license or focused on a particular trade. The way it stands now, your company may be required to be licensed, but your workers don't have to be licensed pressure washers.

...parts of TGS are open and parts are member only....

The word LEARN has the word EARN in it.
If you want to EARN you need to LEARN.
This means doing things yourself as well.
One of my biggest pet peeves is handing over things I have worked hard on, to someone who has done nothing to learn why you need to do what you do.
Anyone can be a parrot...doesn't mean you understand the "why" of what you are doing.
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Beth, is this directed towards me, or just a general statement? I think anyone who visits TGS is trying to learn. Thats why this is a priceless tool for all of us. Advice is given out all day long, but there are no checks and balances to ensure the info is going to a legit business or contractor. All you need to do is fill out a user CP and your in. Those that use info without the learning part of it, will fail eventually anyway. Anyone who thinks they have nothing left to learn, well, they have something to learn.:)

By the way, this post is getting way off track from the original. Beth maybe a poll of some sort is in order on this issue?
 
We see unlisenced contractors all the time trashing houses, ripping up decks and gouging concrete. It's amazing how many people want to save money!!

I didn't take any offense Mike, every area has its own issues but after I read my own post it looked like I operated in some kind of a police state compared to your area..lol

With an MHIC license, you are required to take a test, have a minimum of 50,000 in insurance and a 50,000 bond. I think they have kicked up the insurance rates an all over the years but I'm carrying 2 million so it doesnt matter to me.

I'd love to see a requirement for pressure washing licenses, I think it would help to cut down a lot of the damages and place more responsibility on consumers to check for licensing before they hire someone. After all, I've already done all the footwork and run a completly legal business with workers comp, taxes and the rest. As far as I'm concerned if a home owner hires an unlicensed contractor and they trash their home they pretty much got what they paid for. I just don't know why they are willing to take the risk to save a few bucks.
 
Well said. I think every legit company has the right to be P.O.'ed about it. I'm a homeowner, and I always check credentials if I'm hiring someone. I took a quote I heard on one of the boards and now use it on my commercial and residential brochures:
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory" -Aldo Gucci
 
Big Mike said:
Beth, is this directed towards me, or just a general statement? I think anyone who visits TGS is trying to learn. Thats why this is a priceless tool for all of us. Advice is given out all day long, but there are no checks and balances to ensure the info is going to a legit business or contractor. All you need to do is fill out a user CP and your in. Those that use info without the learning part of it, will fail eventually anyway. Anyone who thinks they have nothing left to learn, well, they have something to learn.:)
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Not at all....its directed at those who over the years have asked me to basically just give them copies of things I have created for marketing etc, without them having to do, spend or learn anything at all. TGS is a tool, and will help others help themselves. Most understand that and use it as such. It's the ones who expect even more than that, that I am referring to. :)

Beth
 
Bump - everyone needs to read this whole thread again - the topics are important.
 
CarolinaProWash said:
Bump - everyone needs to read this whole thread again - the topics are important.
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Whats your view on this Celeste. I just don't want to bother with any more lic stuff. I just think its a way from the different governments to collect money. Theres enough laws, lic, regulations that are just money makers for the gov and that have no real teeth or any kind of enforcement

I give enough $$$ for the 6 or 7 lic I hold now

Bah humbug
 
jlpressure said:
Whats your view on this Celeste. I just don't want to bother with any more lic stuff. I just think its a way from the different governments to collect money. Theres enough laws, lic, regulations that are just money makers for the gov and that have no real teeth or any kind of enforcement

I give enough $$$ for the 6 or 7 lic I hold now

Bah humbug
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Wow......changing parties?:wave3: Welcome to the dark side Jeff.
 
If there was a controlled & effective way to license our industry, I think we (all of the professionals) could benefit from it. Monies paid out for required education and testing could certainly be recouped by the increase in pricing that we would enjoy by having our industry set up like the plumbers and electricians. We are being so overrun by Jimbobed with his box store equipment BECAUSE there is no regulation.

Our equipment, our chemicals - they're DANGEROUS! Look at the insurance premiums we pay. Do you not think that if we were more regulated, even those premiums may decrease? Think of it like a business investment - not one person signing up for the upcoming convention is complaining about having to pay for something that will benefit their business - why would separating yourself with licensing be any different (except it would probably cost less LOL)

With the additional water enforcement already breathing down our necks, wouldn't it be nice to just flash them ONE piece of paper and let them go find Jimbobed and mess with them instead?

Aside from your objection to government getting any more $$, what are your objections to regulation in our industry?

Celeste
 
I had the dry clean delivery service for years Celeste. In 8 years I never had a single workers' comp or liability claim. I paid complaint claims out of my pocket when the dry cleaner screwed up. All I needed was a $25.00 business license and a drivers' license. My taxes were low because of the vehicle writeoffs and I had zero environmental gestapo interference. Insurance was somewhat high, but not too bad.

When I first started the business I wanted to offer a fair service at a fair price. I only had two other competitors. When people started noticing my vans all over the place they popped up everywhere. 17 new ones in 2003, over 20 in 2004. Some were hacks. Some were lowballers. Some were very good business people. Eventually most of them disappeared through the natural process of capitalism. Now there are about 7 or 8.

On the other hand an actual dry clean plant is overrun with all kinds of licensing and permits and environmental junk.

Do you have any idea how many dry cleaners run out of money and close their doors leaving customers' clothes locked inside? Do you have any idea how many are staffed 100% by cash illegals? One of my former vendors just spent a year in prison for having 20 illegals pressing clothes! Do you have any idea how much money is skimmed in a cash situation like that?

How has licensing, more government involvement "helped" the industry? My former vendor explained that IF he went by all the rules it would be impossible to run the business at a profit because there is a price point where dry cleaning becomes a luxury and people will find other alternatives. This is further evidenced by the fact that two companies, each over 30 years old just closed the doors or sold (to morons) over 50 stores combined to get out of the business. These were OLD, ESTABLISHED, MID PRICED legitimate companies. They could no longer run profitably due to the government involvement.

That is what is going to happen to our industry if we let the government mess with it.

Why not just let capitalism run it's course and keep QUIET and enjoy what we have?
 
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