The verdict is in !

[Russ Spence]

you more than anyone else need to understand , what IF they were not meaning to get the laws changed to where you had to reclaim ? Not only would that be a hassle but now you have more insurance expenses , more liability , haz mat permits , waste dumping expenses all added to the price that is already hard to get signed off on

Point is if you are following the rules for the clean water act you dont need to "be in compliance" as they call it. You are already in compliance

They make it seem as if the answer is to buy all the equipment and "get into compliance" then you can show how you save water , well you should not have to do that , we are in compliance as long as we let waste water go to a dry well on the property , all we have to do is sell the health benifits of pressure cleaning not buying un needed equipment

I know that you have not been around all this part on here but you have to read between the lines , we dont need the help of those who know nothing about life here we need to speak up for ourselves and get it done on a local level

And do you really want all the crazy environmental issues they have to deal with in California ? Your seemingly simple job will then become way more costly

 

[cajun cleanin]

I think their issue is lack of water on a local level the clean water act is federal.The local gov is the ones putting the screws to them to not use any water.,It is a political thing if someone who has let their precious flower garden die because they can't water drives down the street and sees someone cleaning a sidewalk they call their councilperson and complain and thats how contractors get shut down.

I'm with you brother on the no reclaim thing,but if I were going out of business because I couldn' use water,any water,even industrial water or water that I carry to the job from outside the city limits I would do or say what I had to to survive.

The California thing is another issue those people out there are a tad different than us southern folks.(just kidding all you California folks)

It's not going to go away for the people that live in these areas that have outgrown the water tables and aquifiers that are around and under them.

and like another great Alabama man once said "that's a I got to say about that"

 

[Russ Spence]

the answer they are giving to lack of water is reclaim and reuse , its all connected state and federal , they are talking federal EPA compliance for the state problem

 

[pressurepros]

Russ, you're micro focusing on one issue. RFW has aided several contractors in the southeast by contacting local pm's, local AHJ's and working with those contractors ensuring they could stay working. The RFW has built an information portal and raised awareness by bringing the Cleaner Times into this. I'm not sure what more you want? If you guys in the south are good to go on your own.. excellent. Shake Carlos' hand and say "thanks for your concerns, we got it from here"

 

[jlpressure]

Russ, you're micro focusing on one issue. RFW has aided several contractors in the southeast by contacting local pm's, local AHJ's and working with those contractors ensuring they could stay working. The RFW has built an information portal and raised awareness by bringing the Cleaner Times into this. I'm not sure what more you want? If you guys in the south are good to go on your own.. excellent. Shake Carlos' hand and say "thanks for your concerns, we got it from here"

Ken, I think some in the south may want the help like the ones you posted about and some dont its their choice as always

I hope something actually good comes from all the postings. Maybe it can get back on track on the decent article in CT. I think Celeste really made some smart posts today, basically HELLLLOOOOOOO lets talk about the positives of the article and work on it.

 

[Al Patterson]

This is very interesting thread, to tell a bit about myself, I live and work in the drought (Atlanta) area and my business has been affected by it, I have also invested a substantial amount of money in a recovery system as some of you may know from the Alabama rt.
When I decided to reclaim, I didn't even know the boards where here, no one made me buy the equipment. It was a decision I made, I wanted to have all the equipment I needed to do any job big or small, reclaim or not. I know by having this equipment it will eventually help my business, right now it's not busting at the seams, but I'm trying to have a edge over competition, by having superior equipment.
I am not going to voice my opinion on who is right or wrong, all I can say is it was a pleasure meeting Russ and the gang in Alabama , and it was also a pleasure talking with Carlos concerning my Rabin county job and him contacting them on my behalf.
I will say this....as a Whole, we need to respect others as to the way they do business, weather its downstream vs upstreaming, softwashing vs pressure washing, reclaiming vs not reclaiming ect...what works for one might not work well with another, we need to work with what works for us at the time.
As a Christian, I try to talk and treat people the way I would like to be talk and treated to, because unfortunately everyone that reads these posts, weather they mean to or not they will base an opinion of the author. This is just not my philosophy for these boards but I try to practice this in my personal life as well.

 

[Clean County PW]

So agreed , on a State by State level is the only way to start , granted that Nationally we need a voice but not to sure we are going the right direction there , no offense to Carlos at all intended and it dang sure isn't me so dint read that into it either , it will evolve one way or another

Thats a matter of opinion also which I don't agree with. We do need a nationwide voice Thru an org so we can get so much more involved with alot more people helping out. The local Rountables seem to be helpful also but since they don't have a backing of a national org. I cant see what the long term goal is of these Round tables.

The PWNA is rising from the dead to have a Convention in Chicago around October. Thats a start for that convention. The UAMCC will break ground one of these days with some big exciting plans for which many including myself are waiting for. As for these Round tables going around with Ron Russ and a few others leading the charge-------I ask you guys what is the end goal of doing all these round tables besides the obvious of people networking?

 

[jlpressure]

Thats a matter of opinion also which I don't agree with. We do need a nationwide voice Thru an org so we can get so much more involved with alot more people helping out. The local Rountables seem to be helpful also but since they don't have a backing of a national org. I cant see what the long term goal is of these Round tables.

The PWNA is rising from the dead to have a Convention in Chicago around October. Thats a start for that convention. The UAMCC will break ground one of these days with some big exciting plans for which many including myself are waiting for. As for these Round tables going around with Ron Russ and a few others leading the charge-------I ask you guys what is the end goal of doing all these round tables besides the obvious of people networking?

John I would say the RT's are to build a base for each ones areas, to get to know each other in their areas, to learn, to share and to profit from mass knowledge of the group in RT's

I now look forward to seeing what Carlos and others have in mind for the org and PWNA I have no idea if that can ever come back, but if any national org doesn't make it, the locals will always be around doing productive things for the industry and those in the industry. I say good luck to both the local RTs' and local orgs and also to a national org. I think there is a ton to be said about these RT's and Ron too trying to spear head an effort to get more RT's going.

Long live the RT's

 

[FCPWLLC]

This is very interesting thread, to tell a bit about myself, I live and work in the drought (Atlanta) area and my business has been affected by it, I have also invested a substantial amount of money in a recovery system as some of you may know from the Alabama rt.
When I decided to reclaim, I didn't even know the boards where here, no one made me buy the equipment. It was a decision I made, I wanted to have all the equipment I needed to do any job big or small, reclaim or not. I know by having this equipment it will eventually help my business, right now it's not busting at the seams, but I'm trying to have a edge over competition, by having superior equipment.
I am not going to voice my opinion on who is right or wrong, all I can say is it was a pleasure meeting Russ and the gang in Alabama , and it was also a pleasure talking with Carlos concerning my Rabin county job and him contacting them on my behalf.
I will say this....as a Whole, we need to respect others as to the way they do business, weather its downstream vs upstreaming, softwashing vs pressure washing, reclaiming vs not reclaiming ect...what works for one might not work well with another, we need to work with what works for us at the time.
As a Christian, I try to talk and treat people the way I would like to be talk and treated to, because unfortunately everyone that reads these posts, weather they mean to or not they will base an opinion of the author. This is just not my philosophy for these boards but I try to practice this in my personal life as well.

While that has merit, there are some methods that are not practical when it comes to CWA. If left for vendor to educate our authorities, we will all be forced to comply to things that are not practical. The contractors need to educate authorities and not vendors, manufacturers with different agenda than contractors have. I can respect your method of compliance, but to be forced to do it because the Local authority was fed a bunch of bull by an Org with influence from a Distributor is out of the question.

The real issue is this.... Some folks feel that if an Org is formed, it should be for Contractors, and run by Contractors. Vendors, Manufacturers and distributors should have no control as to where a Contractors Organization leads its mission. They have different interests than Contractors do. As a Contractor, I would like seeing Licensing for us to be permitted to work, enforced regulations to ensure all are on level playing field. If we all had to prove insurance and workers comp to even get a License, it would lessen the amount of competition and if we had to be held accountable for issues such as non-compliance, we'd have even less hacks pricing work based on non-compliance.

The issue I feel Russ is bringing up is this..... As contractors, we want to make sure things are moving in a direction that benefits us and not a Manufacturer, dist., or vendor. The issues we bring before our localities should be brought by Contractors. A vendor wants to sell more "stuff" We want less hacks buying. Two different "wants" I want Licensing and proof of the Licensing in order for vendor to let a guy walk out of store with equipment. I want to eliminate the local factory or Car dealership from buying equipment because they don't have properly trained/licensed staff to operate the equipment and stay in compliance. Do you know how much work we all lose due to being bypassed and a vendor selling straight to a builder for his "in-house cheap, uneducated, laborer" to do the work all the while violating CWA? This is why there is a need for educating the public, contractors(real ones... not joe blow with no idea of business), and local authorities. The main thing however, is to not allow folks with agendas(other that contractors agendas) do the educating. The manufacturers are always going to be pushing to keep homeowner machines on shelves at Home Depot while we will be wanting to point out that the Homeowners aren't educated nor responsible enough to do the work in compliance with CWA.

I believe Russ is viewing a connection with a supplier to our Org when reading about a supplier giving discounts on equipment that may not be needed. It looks like a vendor getting involved with our (contractors) Org. This will be a bad decision for any Org. There are Orgs that those folks can belong to.

Russ, Carlos promises me that there will be no influence on our Org from any vendor and all I can do is believe him. The article seems to lump them together but I have to believe that CT did interviews with several folks and then wrote it including quotes from several.

I trust Carlos and Ken on this. I do, however, watch carefully and am giving my help when I see that it is heading in the direction of PURE contractor involvement. Vendors will have a place, but it won't be in control.

Our industry has been run by Dist, Mnfgs, and vendors from the time of the first machine built. This is why we are viewed as just laborers with tools. Too much importance is placed on the equipment. Truth is, I can clean those houses with a garden hose. However, we can't run sucessfull businesses without proper education of economics, accounting and business PERIOD!!! This is where I hope our focus becomes. Weeding out the "laborers" that were sold a piece of equipment without first knowing if the were well versed in business and local/national restrictions. If no License, no equopmrnt purchase! Now, do you think vendors would be ready to roll with those sort of ideas and help move an Org in that direction? NO! This is why I say no involvement of vendors when it comes to an Org.

Russ, again I believe Carlos and Ken. I just think CT lumped everyone together in that article.

 

[jlpressure]

While that has merit, there are some methods that are not practical when it comes to CWA. If left for vendor to educate our authorities, we will all be forced to comply to things that are not practical. The contractors need to educate authorities and not vendors, manufacturers with different agenda than contractors have. I can respect your method of compliance, but to be forced to do it because the Local authority was fed a bunch of bull by an Org with influence from a Distributor is out of the question.

The real issue is this.... Some folks feel that if an Org is formed, it should be for Contractors, and run by Contractors. Vendors, Manufacturers and distributors should have no control as to where a Contractors Organization leads its mission. They have different interests than Contractors do. As a Contractor, I would like seeing Licensing for us to be permitted to work, enforced regulations to ensure all are on level playing field. If we all had to prove insurance and workers comp to even get a License, it would lessen the amount of competition and if we had to be held accountable for issues such as non-compliance, we'd have even less hacks pricing work based on non-compliance.

The issue I feel Russ is bringing up is this..... As contractors, we want to make sure things are moving in a direction that benefits us and not a Manufacturer, dist., or vendor. The issues we bring before our localities should be brought by Contractors. A vendor wants to sell more "stuff" We want less hacks buying. Two different "wants" I want Licensing and proof of the Licensing in order for vendor to let a guy walk out of store with equipment. I want to eliminate the local factory or Car dealership from buying equipment because they don't have properly trained/licensed staff to operate the equipment and stay in compliance. Do you know how much work we all lose due to being bypassed and a vendor selling straight to a builder for his "in-house cheap, uneducated, laborer" to do the work all the while violating CWA? This is why there is a need for educating the public, contractors(real ones... not joe blow with no idea of business), and local authorities. The main thing however, is to not allow folks with agendas(other that contractors agendas) do the educating. The manufacturers are always going to be pushing to keep homeowner machines on shelves at Home Depot while we will be wanting to point out that the Homeowners aren't educated nor responsible enough to do the work in compliance with CWA.

I believe Russ is viewing a connection with a supplier to our Org when reading about a supplier giving discounts on equipment that may not be needed. It looks like a vendor getting involved with our (contractors) Org. This will be a bad decision for any Org. There are Orgs that those folks can belong to.

Russ, Carlos promises me that there will be no influence on our Org from any vendor and all I can do is believe him. The article seems to lump them together but I have to believe that CT did interviews with several folks and then wrote it including quotes from several.

I trust Carlos and Ken on this. I do, however, watch carefully and am giving my help when I see that it is heading in the direction of PURE contractor involvement. Vendors will have a place, but it won't be in control.

Our industry has been run by Dist, Mnfgs, and vendors from the time of the first machine built. This is why we are viewed as just laborers with tools. Too much importance is placed on the equipment. Truth is, I can clean those houses with a garden hose. However, we can't run sucessfull businesses without proper education of economics, accounting and business PERIOD!!! This is where I hope our focus becomes. Weeding out the "laborers" that were sold a piece of equipment without first knowing if the were well versed in business and local/national restrictions. If no License, no equopmrnt purchase! Now, do you think vendors would be ready to roll with those sort of ideas and help move an Org in that direction? NO! This is why I say no involvement of vendors when it comes to an Org.

Russ, again I believe Carlos and Ken. I just think CT lumped everyone together in that article.

Good post Mike,

I too have spoke with Carlos mainly and i think Ken once or twice on this. I am not part of it at all but since the ACR RT I have talked to Carlos several times and Ken a couple and usually not about any org stuff. Good RT it was about networking. I was also assured/promised by Carlos that this new org will have NO vendor etc control. I actually told him why bother going through the hassle and I was told the CONTRACTORS need a voice on a national level, yes we may. I believe Carlos, I have no other reason not to. I can guarantee you if this new org is not done how Carlos says he and other are trying to put it together he will lose all contractor support, mine and others. (Not that I am giving any real support other than saying give it time and give it a chance). I understand that No vendors or the like will have any positions Carlos keeps telling me it is ONLY a contractor org.

Now another thing that has been brought up and I want to mention, I hope Carlos doesn't mind me saying this or others who are involved. We are hearing very little except what Carlos posted yesterday about the org. I know some are wondering what if anything is going on with this new org. some could care less and some are wondering what back room deals, politics or what ever are going on. Carlos has told me and I agreed it would be good idea t just leave it hush hush somewhat on the BB's, why because I think if everything is posted as its being established on a daily or weekly basis it probably will get slammed, I do it on some of my post about things and so don't many others. I think somewhat its the nature of the BB's. So from what I understand is that they are taking their time and are talking to many in the industry and together and are trying to formulate a plan. I have no idea who is involved ,but I understand it is many( didnt know mike was involved, good for him. I know Mike is all about CONTRACTOR control for sure, you should of heard at the ACR meeting you would know where Mike stands) I think its a good idea for NOW to get a plan and not announce things every week. Its like anything, other orgs in other trades and association dont come out and announce anything until its ready to announce. It usually is an idea and then it is built and then announced to the masses. whether anyone or some or everyone wants to join or not, I don't want to make decisions until a FULL plan is up and running and then I would make a decision to join and you know the way I am I would probably wait some time to join just to see if it will work.

I too believe that the mention of reclaim in that article is just a small part of what Carlos said and I bet he wishes that that was left out since all his statements in his interview weren't printed, it is what it is and yesterday was a interesting day on this subject.

I truly feel Carlos and all the others involved are going to make that org a CONTRACTOR ONLY org and yes maybe vendors will be sold advertising space in whatever they do for a vendor area, but will they have a voice in the running of the org I believe not and I will guarantee that if it is not how it was told to me and other the org will not get the support and will fail guaranteed. Carlos and others plain & simple want a CONTRACTORS org , they have seen the BS of the past that Mike and Russ and others write about

I say lets wait and see what happens it may take months and months to put together.

I think the article was a good one and Celeste & PWNC has had along with RFW help bring a lot of awareness to this industry and the drought problem. I think Celeste has done most or all of the leg work and has done an unreal job at it. So lets read the article and others that may come out for what it is an educational tool.

I really in my 5-6 years on these BB's have never seen such a great interest about RT's local org & national orgs. I think its really cool and will all play out for the good one way or another

Mike real interesting about the licensing thing you talk about

 

[jlpressure]

Oops double post

 

[Newlook]

Michael and Jeff - appreciate and thank the both of you for your comments. Much work needs to be done. At the beginning I totally understood what I was stepping in and up to this point do not regret one second of if.

The dialogue on all the boards is what is expected and yesterday was no different. The new org. will continue to move in the direction that it initially set. The boards will be informed of where the new org. is at when the Transition Team determines it is appropriate to make that public and not a day sooner.

 

[Newlook]

Russ - to answer your question ~ Yes - I am a washer and yes I am full tilt on it. As a matter of fact I have been speaking with Mark from Easy Clean about adding another rig this year.

I did step away from washing a year or so ago to focus more on our landscaping/concrete business but always kept a rig operational. During that time I did not actively pursue new accounts. Just finished up a post construction clean up job in which we were able to upsale the customer on the landscaping install. Was over in S.F. all day Sat. doing washing estimates.

Not sure what your definition of partimer is? Do you associate the term partimer in the same sense as how the industry would look at someone that does washing but is also a nurse? Just curious. Maybe you should call Ron up and ask to see the newspaper articles that he has on my company. Maybe that will shed some light on what I do.

Take care man!

 

[jlpressure]

You know after a conversation on the phone with someone I trust. I can see where Russ is coming from somewhat. Those who have been around have seen things pushed by orgs, that were pushed by distributors that were wrong and pushed just for the money making of the distributor. also that have cost the contractor dearly. Wrong regulations were adopted because some were mainly trying to sell something, regulations shouldn't be about selling something. I can see that the Uuamac (sp) was a org run buy a company that sold reclaim units I understand why Russ to say the least is skeptical about national orgs & distributors and the combination of the two. I know very little about it and my commenting on it and defending Carlos was just that, in defense of Carlos, because I have talked to the man and he assured me that this was to be an org for the contractor and I have no reason to think the man is lying. Plus I felt it was all taking away from an article about the drought. I see Russ's apprehensions I just didn't understand why he came out so strong. I understand it more today than yesterday. But I will still take a wait and see on any org that is developed.

So I figure Russ has his reasons and I hope and know he will make them clear and I figure I will give any org a chance if they are straight up for the contractor only. If i want to be a part of a distributors org I will join one. If I want to be a part of a contractor org I will join one and i will pay two different dues checks if thats what I wanted to do. But I can tell you if I ever write a check it will be for an org for contractors and one that is to only help not hinder contractors. Like some have done in the past. Carlos you better not screw up or man you are going to get beat up. I believe you are doing what you say so good luck.


Can we get back to the good of the article soon. I bet Celeste is sick of shaking her head and saying WTF

Anybody join any good orgs lately. I joined a couple Chamber of Commerce ones and one for apartments

Jeff

 

[Russ Spence]

I will openly say I dont need an organization for help , I have a long list of contractors I can call at any time , I do feel an org has a place , I just have made it my personal mission to make sure we are not mislead by anyone (not Carlos) anyone at all like in the past , there is no place for more junk in this industry

All I can say is I see a lot of people supporting this and some of which are past members of both FAILED orgs , I am not attacking anyone I just feel we should all keep an open mind and not be followers without any since of direction ........ I dont have time or energy for it right now.

Sorry and I do mean sorry for stepping on toes , I get mine stepped on too , as front men and women for this industry we must be ready to take and give criticism and leave presonal feelings out of it ...... really its not personal just business politics (or our own system of checks and balances). Everyone should be ready to be under a microscope including myself during this transition time.

 

[NYPWC.NET]

Russ - to answer your question ~ Yes - I am a washer and yes I am full tilt on it. As a matter of fact I have been speaking with Mark from Easy Clean about adding another rig this year.

I did step away from washing a year or so ago to focus more on our landscaping/concrete business but always kept a rig operational. During that time I did not actively pursue new accounts. Just finished up a post construction clean up job in which we were able to upsale the customer on the landscaping install. Was over in S.F. all day Sat. doing washing estimates.

Not sure what your definition of partimer is? Do you associate the term partimer in the same sense as how the industry would look at someone that does washing but is also a nurse? Just curious. Maybe you should call Ron up and ask to see the newspaper articles that he has on my company. Maybe that will shed some light on what I do.

Take care man!

Hey Carlos... What kind of Reclaimation equipment are you using and could you please post some pics for us part timers to look at LOL

Matt

 

[Russ Spence]

You know after a conversation on the phone with someone I trust. I can see where Russ is coming from somewhat. Those who have been around have seen things pushed by orgs, that were pushed by distributors that were wrong and pushed just for the money making of the distributor. also that have cost the contractor dearly. Wrong regulations were adopted because some were mainly trying to sell something, regulations shouldn't be about selling something. I can see that the Uuamac (sp) was a org run buy a company that sold reclaim units I understand why Russ to say the least is skeptical about national orgs & distributors and the combination of the two. I know very little about it and my commenting on it and defending Carlos was just that, in defense of Carlos, because I have talked to the man and he assured me that this was to be an org for the contractor and I have no reason to think the man is lying. Plus I felt it was all taking away from an article about the drought. I see Russ's apprehensions I just didn't understand why he came out so strong. I understand it more today than yesterday. But I will still take a wait and see on any org that is developed.

So I figure Russ has his reasons and I hope and know he will make them clear and I figure I will give any org a chance if they are straight up for the contractor only. If i want to be a part of a distributors org I will join one. If I want to be a part of a contractor org I will join one and i will pay two different dues checks if thats what I wanted to do. But I can tell you if I ever write a check it will be for an org for contractors and one that is to only help not hinder contractors. Like some have done in the past. Carlos you better not screw up or man you are going to get beat up. I believe you are doing what you say so good luck.


Can we get back to the good of the article soon. I bet Celeste is sick of shaking her head and saying WTF

Anybody join any good orgs lately. I joined a couple Chamber of Commerce ones and one for apartments

Jeff

Wow I thought you trusted me but I guess you found out I was a Republican

 

[jlpressure]

Wow I thought you trusted me but I guess you found out I was a Republican

Republican me too Sorry I cant talk about politics I have a sworn oath to shut up about politics on the BB's for a while, maybe I'll just shut up on orgs too

Trusted you, yes, but didn't understand your view on this thread. I like you have said I don't need a PWing org, maybe someday, just not in any rush

 

[Russ Spence]

Republican me too Sorry I cant talk about politics I have a sworn oath to shut up about politics on the BB's for a while, maybe I'll just shut up on orgs too

Trusted you, yes, but didn't understand your view on this thread. I like you have said I don't need a PWing org, maybe someday, just not in any rush

want me to invite doolittle over ?

 

[mbryan]

RUSS SPENCE 4 PWNA PRESIDENT​

All I can say is I see a lot of people supporting this and some of which are past members of both FAILED orgs , I am not attacking anyone I just feel we should all keep an open mind and not be followers without any since of direction ........ I dont have time or energy for it right now.

Sorry and I do mean sorry for stepping on toes , I get mine stepped on too , as front men and women for this industry we must be ready to take and give criticism and leave presonal feelings out of it ...... really its not personal just business politics (or our own system of checks and balances). Everyone should be ready to be under a microscope including myself during this transition time.