One or Two Man Crews?

The cost of running your business is paid for by the money you collect from the jobs you are doing, unless you are independently wealthy and dont care if you actually turn a profit.
One man or two man or twenty two man you still have overhead that needs to be calculated into the equation or you are living in a dream world.

To simplify it think of it this way... take all the money that you collect from all the jobs that you do and subtract all the money that you spend in order to run the business ( this includes all initial start up costs) and whatever is left is your profit . If you divide the profit amount by the number of jobs will see your avarage per job profit or you can divide the profit by your total income to calculate your profit margin.

To run a business, you need to run a business. Take some general business classes at your local community college and it may help.
 
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Profit versus Gross Sales

I was going to respond to your 10% cost figure, but it appears that Michael and Grant pretty well covered anything that I would have to offer on the subject.

I would still like to hear an answer to my other question if you don't mind. It would be interesting to know if we all define clean the same way.

Thank You
 
Grant,
Am I to understand from your comment that there are some flue cleaners who are not "independently wealthy"? Perish the thought. After reading the differences of opinion in terms of bottom-line profitability, I was smitten with a sudden overwhelming wave of altruism, i.e. - a desire to reach out to all the illegals; ex-cons; derelicts; winos; criminals; etc - you know, the usual hood cleaners one encounters at night. With this in mind I intend to offer my new Hood Cleaning Training & Guide. It will show you how to eliminate most of the expenses you listed while increasing production ten-fold and minimizing the tax bite. It will illustrate how I was once a lowly flue cleaner wallowing between penury and poverty, to an overnight millonaire. Well OK, since I'm not yet there I must make a small, nominal charge for my course. I'm thinking of a measly $8,000 for the basic course and $16,000 if we throw in some scrapers and stuff.

I would be glad to give a preview of this unprecedented concept if you wish. Whacha think?
Richard
 
Well it seems to me somebody will buy it.
Does the basic course include the principle ideas of profit/loss etc...
 
Grant said:

To simplify it think of it this way... take all the money that you collect from all the jobs that you do and subtract all the money that you spend in order to run the business ( this includes all initial start up costs) and whatever is left is your profit . If you divide the profit amount by the number of jobs will see your avarage per job profit or you can divide the profit by your total income to calculate your profit margin.

To run a business, you need to run a business. Take some general business classes at your local community college and it may help.
Click to expand...


Income-expense=profit

This formula I understand.

I don't understand, however, why everything has to be made so complicated for you guys. My post was my understaning of cost per job, not cost to run the business.

Business classes would be a help for me, and I have actually been looking at taking some. However, for this discussion, I believe a refresher at your local elementary school could be of some help.

Simple math is all this is. Employing people costs money. This takes us back to the fromula, income-expense (employees would be in this figure)=profit. If you employ someone it costs money(profit).

Larry Hinckley-

I didn't think your question was directed to me. I can't speak for hoodcleaner, but I'm sure he follows the simple rules of cleaning. I have attached a picture for you. The handsome guy in the photo is me.
:D
 

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try thinking ofit this way...
You, by your self can work a maximum of 10 hours per night times 7 nights a week or 70 hours (this is with awsome scheduling and not counting customer no shows) if you feel that you can make a profit per job of lets say $250 times about 15 jobs you are making a profit of $3750.00 BUT THAT IS IT! you cannot work more hours on a regular basis partially due to restaurants hours of operation and the fact that you need some sleep.
$3750 profit is a very generous estimate under ideal conditions so lets get real and say $2750 per week profit. You will never make any more than that. now if you have several crews, yes your profit per job goes down, but for each crew your are adding 15 jobs to your week.
more jobs with less profit with no limits or less jobs with more profits and a cap of 15 jobs per week. ITS ONLY MATH

That will be $2000.00 please
 
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Both of you are horribly fettered by traditional thinking. Guess you will have to buy my course!
Richard
 
When is the next class?
 
And is it in Colorado? near a ski resort?
 
Grant,
I don't think you would want to go skiing right now. Some of my grandkids went to Winter Park today (west of Denver) and it was 8 below. Not fun. It's below zero in Denver at the moment. Makes me want to return to sunny So Cal where I was raised (Burbank)!
Richard
 
Grant said:

$3750 profit is a very generous estimate under ideal conditions so lets get real and say $2750 per week profit. You will never make any more than that. now if you have several crews, yes your profit per job goes down, but for each crew your are adding 15 jobs to your week.
more jobs with less profit with no limits or less jobs with more profits and a cap of 15 jobs per week. ITS ONLY MATH
Click to expand...

$2750.00 X 50 = $137,500.00

This is what you have posted as a fair estimate for an annual income for a one man operation. Make it $143,000.00 if you really like to work and don't take a vacation. Not bad money, eh? A lot of people go to school for a long time to make this kind of money. Some people take a week long course.


Richard,
You might check on renting Invcesco Field for your course, it should be free for a few months:D
 
Josh,
Would you believe there are some people who live for football - some actually enjoy that brutality? Barbarians. You wouldn't be among that number, would you?

Actually Mile High has other uses. They have had National Supercross races there (my son was a pro motocrosser).

That 137K ain't bad, but far from a really substantial income. A registered nurse in my area can earn far more - without the risk and the headaches.
Richard
 
This is my follow-up answer to all of this.
Yes I was appalled at the amount of taxes I had to pay once I eliminate my employees. Yes my gross sales went down. Yes my net profit went up. Yes I had to be more selective in the jobs I performed. Yes it took more time to do the jobs myself. In my case the elimination of the stress of dealing with employees ,IE , workmens comp, late to work , transportation, girlfriends , scheduling twice as much work to cover expenses , not to mention the wear and tear on equipment and the liability of knowing the job is done correctly without doing a followup etc. was worth it to me.
Those of you, who are people managers who can deal with employees, more power to you. I myself am tired of the hire and train, and hire and train cycle that seams to go on with this service. Which I have found that the even if you pay well, the grind of working nights and the nature of the work takes its toll.
As far as certification is concerned, I have mixed feelings. I have always felt that professionalism and the quality of the service should be rewarded and the fly by nighters who do an inadequate job should be eliminated. I have always performed my service with the notion that if you eliminate the fuel for a fire you eliminate the possibilities of fire. Thank you, Phil, for agreeing with me. I do not want to be responsible for a lousy design or installation. I just want to be responsible for the service I perform , which is cleaning grease. And if certification for cleaning grease and fire prevention will eliminate the fly by nighters and lead to more profit, then I'm all for it.
Now what agency to be certified by? It would seam the Fire Marshall or the Health Department would be the AHJ's that would make a difference , and they do in a gross negligence occurrence, but it is the Insurance industry that really makes a difference. If every restaurant is required to have a Certified Exhaust Cleaner clean their exhaust system on a regular basis to fulfill their fire insurance requirements then this is the organization I want to be associated with, be it PWNA, IKECA , CHDCS, or GREASE ‘Gary's Restaurant Exhaust Air Systems Expert'. This is where it's at. And as far as I can see Phil has the inside track on all of this. He has done more for this industry than all the Johnny come lately's, and should be applauded. I just wish he wasn't so expensive.
In the meantime I will continue to clean exhaust systems down to bear metal the best that I can and if you want to be certified by GREASE, call me ,we'll talk.
Gary
 
RT, I love your sense of humor. Great stuff.

Josh, Keep after it. You may succeed or you may crash and burn. 143K...... after the tax man has his way with you ....... 80K.
One word of advise, Work smarter not harder.
Example: I am only working 3 days this week. Putting in a total of 35 +/- hrs. I am on the job with 2 helpers. There is 15 hrs of travel which leaves 20 +/- hrs on the job. I will gross 6000 half of which is profit. I still make 100 / hr . And say I only work 40 weeks a yr at this rate. I'm still putting 120K in my pocket. Work smarter not harder!!!!
Josh , I think you have a lot of untapped potential.
 
Vent Cleaning in General

Josh,

My question wasn't directed to you specifically. It was directed to anyone who operates a one man cleaning service. Vent cleaning isn't my forte even though I am a certified vent cleaner. My delimma is that I don't understand how one guy can clean an grease exhaust system as fast or faster than two people can. Earlier in this string it was said that a work day for one man might be from morning till late at night with a break in between. Is that the answer? Do you work more hours to do the same job and save on labor cost by not having any employees?

Respectfully
 
Richard-
A barbarian I must be :D GO Rams!!!

Michael T-
Why do you work with 2 helpers? Big Jobs?

I do work with a helper on almost all of my jobs. It is more work to perform for a single person, but the only time you really gain with a helper is for set-up, a couple of clean filters, and wrap up. Maybe 30 or 40 minutes.

Larry-
A 10' hood with 5 filters and one fan takes about 1.75-2 hr with one man. The same job with a good helper, 1.5- 1.75hr.

A 20' hood with 10 filters and 2 fans takes about 3- 3.5 hr with one man. The same job with a good helper 2.5-3 hr.

The time saved with a helper or two isn't very significant on average size jobs, only larger ones.
 
Josh,
Is your occasional helper an employee? or are you paying him under the table? Doesn't this dramatically affect your profit? do you cover the helper with workers comp?
 
I didn't say my helper was occasional. He is a full time employee, actually my brother. "Dramatically" affecting the profit, no, but yes he does make me pay him.

I do this because he needs the job and I like to have a helping hand. I will be putting my other brother to work as well in a couple of weeks. They will work together as a crew and I will be on my own. My business is growing, and I have chosen not to work myself to death.

I'm in the process of getting workman's comp, Missouri doesn't require it for under 5 employees, but I am being pressed by a customer to carry it. I'll feel better having it anyway.
 
It looks like the Dodsonish clan is going to take over the entire world of hood cleaning.

Josh - have an attorney draw an exculpatory agreement running to and in favor of your client. Much better than simple opt-out on work/comp, and should both impress and satisfy your client. A good contracts attorney will know what to do.

Check your own health insurance to be sure it covers you while on the job. Most carriers exclude on-the-job injuries with the assumption that you yourself are covered under work/comp - big trouble for you. If you do find the customary exclusion then check with the Mid-West Natl Life 'Affordable Health Plan'. That is the only carrier with which I am familiar which does cover work injuries.
Regards,
Richard
 
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