One or Two Man Crews?

whoa Karen

We were discussing the number of people actually on the job, and the pro's and cons of that. I think it was mentioned that it would be impossible or very hard for one person to do the scheduling, bid the job's and go do them. That is why Rusty mentioned a husband and wife team.
How many people do you use to do jobs?
 
For example Karen;

We set up a company and taught them how to clean using a 1 person crew. They came through our training program and we trained 2 of their employees and the owner how to clean hoods as a 1 person per crew operation. Now they have grown their company to have 3 1 man crews. They have 5 total employees so far, (the owner, the office manager, and 3 1 man crews). The office manager (usually the wife but not in this case) schedules everything, gives presentations to the AJH's and insurance companies and takes all of the calls. The owner (usually the husband but not in this case) confirms customer satisfaction, does sales and marketing, gives presentations to the AJH's and insurance companies, and overall organizes everything. The 3 crews work as a 1 person crew on most jobs and then come together on the complex multi-person jobs.

As a side note they only hire certified fire techs so that they can also clean the hoods, and certify the fire suppression system in 1 trip.

Thus 1 employee is working at maximum efficiency.

The point of this thread is that there are those who think that it is impossible and can’t be done to clean hoods as a 1 person cleaning crew. I say it can be done and we do it all the time. That's the whole point of why someone would want to go through a much more expensive training school so that they could operate a cleaning company with as few employees as they want; since each cleaning crew would consist of 1 person.

Rusty
 
This subject is over-1 person is great please God can we move on my ability and knowledge is at it's peak.

David
 
I Tried.
 
Gary here,
I just got back from the north coast doing a little spear fishing and relaxing. Took an extra day cause the ocean was so flat, the weather was cool, (hotter than heck in Sacramento) and the salmon were running. Maybe if anyone is interested I'll post a picture of what a 20+lb ling cod looks like after meeting me at 65 feet with my spear gun.
After reading all the threads to my last posting, I'm a little dismayed at the hornet nest I've seemed to stir up. I thought that people could see that there may be more than one way to clean a hood. David, I never would ever try to compete with a 2or 3 man crew in speed of service. The jobs I used to do in 2 to 3 hours now take me 4 to 5 hours. And as far as only being able to do one a night, yes most of the time that's what I do. However Rusty is also right. Depending on what jobs are on my "Action list" I will do 2,3,or 4 jobs in a day. And unlike you I will pick up extra work (add on sales) by cleaning kitchen floors or under equipment or even a sidewalk or entrance. I also been known to clean an oven or stove or a walk- in reefer if the time and money is right. I usually charge at least $75.00 per hour for this type of service and will clean till the customer is happy. By the way I only do this if I want to, or the customer is willing to pay up to $150.00 per hour for this service or what I feel it's worth. After all, this type of cleaning is labor intensive and requires a little more expertise and desire to do an outstanding job than the average hood cleaner possesses.
And now as to certification. I agree what Ed of Przrat stated in regards to certification, and I also agree with David. I think The AHJ's should be more responsible for allowing a lousy designed poorly installed exhaust system installation that's almost impossible to clean than the poor hood cleaner trying to make a living cleaning grease. After more than two decades of cleaning (as David put it) I have never had an insurance claim for any type of fire. Then after getting certified by Phil with PWNA He post on this board that if I claim or use Certified on hood labels, or cleaned to NFPA-96 standards, I may be more liable than if I just clean grease. So now I'm liable for design, installation, maintaince, and cleaning. Not to forget waste water pollution ,(have you tried to get pollution insurance?)sanitary sewer reports performance reports and taxes. Where is this getting better? Then you roll all of this into your responsible for all this and all of your employees too.
David , I know your getting tired of this thread and you probably need your blood pressure checked, but how in the heck can you sleep at night?"
I think I need another long weekend.
Gary
 
OK! I am just finding this site. I was trained thru Rusty and Roger at CHDCS. We were trained with a one man crew operation. I go out and do two cleanings a night. I average 7-10 cleanings a week. Last week I did 4 in a roe one day, started the first one at 2pm and finished the last one at 3:30am. At $250 each, take out about 3 hours of driving time and theres a good $100 an hour.
 
Welcome to the board, That $100.00 sounded high, so I ran it through my calculator...
according to your post you average 7-10 cleanings a week (8.5) and with 52 weeks a year you are looking at 442 cleanings a year at your average price of $250.00 per, then your estimated annual sales revenue would be approximately $110,500.00 (or $2,125.00 per week average). With your doing 4 jobs in 10.5 hours (having removed driving time) your avarage job is 2.63 hours times the 442 jobs your annual time on the job site is 1,162.42 hours thus equating to $95.06 per hour average over the year.
That is pretty good, how is the cost of liability insurance in Tenn? and have you figured what your actual material cost is per job? And how much time or money are you paying for marketing purposes? Are you planning to bring on a helper to speed up your jobs? or add additional crews (network your time)?

What is the most valuable thing you have learned so far?
And what has been the biggest draw back? Is there anything you haven't been able to figure out that anyone here can help you with?

Good luck and again welcome!
 
Our insurance is about $600yr /$1,000,000 coverage. Material cost is $5 per job. We aren't paying any marketing, I watch for new restaurants as I do my traveling. I am not looking at hiring others. Once in a while I will need some help and I have some friends or here of some one needing some work. We plan on keeping it simple. The way we look at hiring employees is, more insurance, bonding, taxes, labor, there goes half the profit. Thats not even counting putting up the headaches. We have talked with other friends and family members who own there own companies, ( different occupations) and they have told us KEEP IT SIMPLE!!!

In response to some who say it absolutely can not be done with one man. IT CAN!!!! I started out with a partner. When you are on the job, one takes out the filters the other wraps the hood, then one goes and turns the fan up and the other has started spraying chemical. At that point one man is on break. There is only one sprayer, then when you start pressure washing there is only one of those. At this point one squeeges out the hood and takes down the plastic. The other brings in the filters, hoses and chords can be wound up now. To do this at a Sonic, 2 hoods & 7 filters, 2-2.5 hours with 2 people same time with one person. Been there done that!!! With one I keep all the profit, scheduling is on my time, it is just easier and more profitable.
 
Glad its working for you!
 
The world of hood cleaning can't be measured by a Sonic Burger Joint. We have never said that 50% of your jobs can't be done with one person. It is obvious that many jobs can be done with one person, however a good 2 man crew can service 100% of the jobs faster with less strain and safer than a one man operation. You can work a spin all you want with friends and family-when the rubber hits the road-two and three man crews are the way to go.

One could say a painter can paint anything-thus a single man operation would be great. That single guy could paint the Golden Gate Bridge-he would never get the job done and he would never get the job.

For a single man crew at $95 per hour-that is outrageous. You are charging for a two person crew. That is a good billing rate for a two man crew in California.

When looking back at your step process-the second man does as directed. I will bet you that my crew could do that Sonic in 1.5 hours and no call back.

David
 
"some who say it absolutely can not be done with one man".

Who said it cannot be done? A cursory review of back posts reveals no such claim. Perhaps I missed it - where are these statements? I think every seasoned flue cleaner has done many, many one-manners. We know what to do. I can do it either way, it is simply my preference to use help. Your job description demonstrates you have been ill-taught. We would never do it in that sequence. We never have any idle or 'break' time at all - ever. We could breeze through a job like that so fast you just wouldn't believe it - and get home in time to watch the late movie!

Richard
 
hoodcleaners said:
Our insurance is about $600yr /$1,000,000 coverage.
Click to expand...

$600yr for 1 mil. liability ins. This you need to pass on. What broker, carrier, deductable ammount and do they cover in California? Please respond via this board,E-mail or phone. I could use this.

Thanks, Gary
 
Having had single man hood cleaning teams throughout most of my career, I can say that they were more profitable. Especially on jobs that require much travel. That said, I also see that job safety is a big issue. With 2 men, if one is hurt, another can go get help. This really became apparent when one of my workers had a heart attack just before leaving for work. (He was 42 at the time) If he had been on the roof, by himself when the heart attack struck, he would have died. I currently use 2 man crews for most of my work now. Having a 2 man crew also speeds up the job, which is appreciated by the customers who have to wait for you to finish before they can go home.
 
Rusty,

Do you mean $600.00 per day profit or total gross sales. Considering the cost of operation, even with one man, $600.00 per day profit would require a lot more in sales.
 
hoodcleaners

Your last post refered to your methods of cleaning. You didn't mention cleaning the duct or fan. Do you in fact only clean the hoods and filters? Do you not offer roof top maintenance? If this is the case it would explain a lot.
 
2 jobs @ $300.00= $600.00
2 $300 job's expense @ 10%= $60.00
Profit for 1 man= $540

3 jobs @ $200.00= $600.00
3 $200 job's expense@ 10%= $60.00
Profit for 1 man $540

Ten percent should be more than enough to cover cost of materials per job.

What kind of sales do you need to make $600 a day, other than the hood cleaning?:confused:
 
10% covers the materials for the job (chems and fuel and a hot dog on the way home), how about the other expenses?

Liability insurance
auto insurance
workmans compensation insurance
unemployment insurance
truck expenses (tires, brakes, oil changes, engine rebuilds etc...)
truck fuel & oil
pw'er maintenance expenses (replacement pump, unloader, belts etc...)
pw'er fuel & oil
uniforms
advertising
association membership fees
certification programs
duct cleaning school
invoices
business cards
telephone (office and mobile)
someone to answer the phone, schedule the jobs and collect your money
reserves for incidentals (new hoses, noozles, scrapers, buckets, rags, plastic sheeting, shop vacs, quick connects, tools, ladders, boots, hats, goggles, fall protection equipment, resperatory equipment etc...
 
overhead ie: expenses

Josh, Hoodcleaner and Gary,
Realistically guys, If you keep good books and do everything legit you will be paying a fortune in income taxes on your 90% profit. 10% or 20% is unrealistic. 50% is more realistic. Actually deducting expenses benefits you two ways. You get the benefit of the use plus the deduction of the expense. Being in business for yourself can very rewarding, in the many ways you measure it, financial being only one of them. I agree with Larry 600.00 sounds like gross sales. After ALL EXPENSES you have Net Profit. As a selfemployed individual that figure is what your SE tax is based on. And you and your family get the remainder.

Ive only been in this business for 17 yrs. I think Ive figured out a few things. But this is just my $.02 worth
 
Grant said:
10% covers the materials for the job (chems and fuel and a hot dog on the way home), how about the other expenses?

Liability insurance
auto insurance
workmans compensation insurance
unemployment insurance
truck expenses (tires, brakes, oil changes, engine rebuilds etc...)
truck fuel & oil
pw'er maintenance expenses (replacement pump, unloader, belts etc...)
pw'er fuel & oil
uniforms
advertising
association membership fees
certification programs
duct cleaning school
invoices
business cards
telephone (office and mobile)
someone to answer the phone, schedule the jobs and collect your money
reserves for incidentals (new hoses, noozles, scrapers, buckets, rags, plastic sheeting, shop vacs, quick connects, tools, ladders, boots, hats, goggles, fall protection equipment, resperatory equipment etc...
Click to expand...

I was calculating cost of supplies per job, not cost of running your business. Its hard to fit all these expenses into a per job average. But even if you did, the cost for this with one man would be much less than the cost for 2+ man crews.

That entire list you've provided is arguement enough for someone to stay a one man operation. It's making me wonder if all the headaches of growing a multi crew business are worth it.
 
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