Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Merry Christmas to you and yours too Michael.
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I thought Tony was always right.......
- Thread starter NJWashingGuy
- Start date
Merry Christmas to you and yours too Michael.
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Kiloman
New member
Red couldnt make it very far in politics or police work he cant spell.How is he gonna even drive and talk on the radio at the same time.Wow and the fact about the stop and frisk was the most craziest post i have read in a while.Catch somebody in the commision of a crime dont bother frisking them and you might end up dead.Red you dont even have the intelect to speak on a subject if you give that stupid example you gave about dui did you graduate from high school?I am just curious because of that post you dont sound like your iq much higher than your waist size.In the recent acts before and during what was supposed to be a happy season has nt been very happy for me.Hearing about the school shootings and now a loon that sets fire then shoots the first responders.I agree 100 percent about getting rid of the bad apples like show in the videos but a pat down and frisk is done for a reason,keep people safe.How would somebody feel if there loved one was riding down the road past a traffic stop and the police officer had pulled over a car and the driver was asked to step out of the car and was not patted down for weapons and a shoot out began a stray bullet hit an occupant in an on coming car.After the story unfold and the department found out the officer didnt follow sops and this was published then what??The justice system failed us 100 percent in this last incident.That man beat his grandmother with a hammer killed her.Went to prison for manslaughter WTF.I dont know much but this country better pull itself up by the bootstraps and start cleaning house.This was another terrible story.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Hal, obviously you are uneducated on what "stop and frisk" means. It is an unconstitutional method of stopping people on the streets for any given reason and frisking them to fish for something to charge them with. Please look it up for clarification.
If you see nothing wrong with this maybe you are living in the wrong country and maybe Mexico would be better to your liking where this is accepted and legal. The fourth amendment specifically outlaws this.
Further, is it common practice where you live to frisk at simple traffic stops?
It may be illegal in your state to travel with a gun on your person in your car. But in most states it us perfectly legal.
Why would it be ok to arbitrarily search citizens for legal arms at a simple traffic stop for "safety" reasons?
If an officer us too frightened to perform their job within the parameters of the constitution, it is time for then to find a new job.
I am appalled at the lack of education regarding the bill of rights by those hired to uphold it
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Kiloman
New member
Tony you like to spar with pepole over this matter and you are so eager to jump on me over a logical post i made.Before start telling me where i should live or what ever you rambled on about.Why dont you read the post its still up there.My statement was catch someone in the commision of a crime not just grab somebody off the street and search them no thats no what i meant.Why cant you just understand that all the police are not bad like you think.Anyone that post anything even opposing your veiws you wanna tell them to go tell them to go live in mexico thats out of line we can have a discussion like adults about a topic regardless if it about gun control or washing.You dont need to tell people where they should move to just because you dont like there veiws.Down here in the south we own our guns we dont rent them at a range.An the comment about the police being scared how many suspect cars have you pulled over in the middle of the night??I am sure if you pulled over a several subjects in the middle of the night that had just did a home invasion with a weapon,you would just get out of the car take your vest off lay it down go up to the car with a coke in your hand an approach the car no cares in the world.Its easy to sit behind a keyboard and tell the world about scared cop should seek employment elsewhere because Tony says so or doesnt agree with his ideology of the world.I stand to agree with you about the cops in all the videos that we posted there is no place in law enforcement for people like that.Another thing if you think all those caught on film doing those terrible beatings are still on the force you are wrong.No department is going to stand behind officers that behave that way.If you want to rebutle anything i say here please read carefully to make sure you have read what i wrote unlike the other post.Wonder what it is with you radical guys why cant you spell?Ill ponder on this until you respond.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Hal, what have I misspelled? Lol.
You spoke of "stop and frisk" that is a specific act and I addressed it. I wasn't jumping all over you. I meant no insult saying you were "uneducated" about that term, I just meant you are talking about a term that you have not been educated on.
Also, I have a style of communicating in print that I think comes from emulating the writings of Paul with sarcasm and sometimes even insults. (Although I have never told anyone I wish they would castrate themselves as Paul did) It is a style designed to make honest men think and the dishonest to simply be frustrated.
I hope it works.
Contrary to popular belief I love to be challenged to think myself. I appreciate your posts and thank you for making me think.
With that in mind, I agree with you about caution that should be taken when a crime has been committed and suspects are on the loose.
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"Red"
Graphic Designer
I can't spell? Let's take a look at your writing skills, shall we?
You seriously need to pay attention to your own writing skills, because you totally suck at it dude. Have you ever heard of punctuation? How about proper sentence structure? Does spacing mean anything to you at all? Proper capitalization?
You want to attack my typos... go ahead, it just demonstrates to me (and everyone else) how much of a fool you are. As for my I.Q., it's 169, and I have an Engineering degree in Electronics. Just by looking at your response, I can tell that you could never attain either of these in your lifetime. Go ahead... prove me wrong.
As for the actual subject of the "thread" (that's what you call this chain of messages on a forum, but I'm sure you knew that), it's primarily about rights violations and the abuses of "bad" cops. Let me give you a brief breakdown, but I'm sure you know all of this already too;
- 1st Amendment - Protects my right to say anything I like, and no one has the right to prevent me from doing so
- 2nd Amendment - Protects my right to own and carry any firearm I choose, and no one has the right to prevent me from doing so (except a jury)
- 4th Amendment - Protects my right against being stopped and searched (or questioned) for any reason without justifiable probable cause or a warrant.
- 5th Amendment - Protects my right from be punished without first having due process. In this particular case, someone charged with a DUI (this is limited to the no injury / no damage scenario) is tried and convicted at the scene. It's left up to the one charged to prove their innocence (guilty until proven innocent). The 5th also protects the right of NOT having to perform in any way that might be incriminating (breathalyzer, field sobriety tests). In the Florida Statutes, if you refuse to submit (isn't there another thread by that title?) you are automatically found guilty (no trial, no due process - GUILTY!). Where's the "due process" in that?
- 6th Amendment - Protects my right to a fair and speedy PUBLIC trial, facing my accuser (which is never a real flesh and blood being which can be called as a witness) - this one alone has the potential of destroying any case brought by "The STATE OF..."
Here's another example (maybe a little closer to the point at hand); lets say someone's speeding down the road... should they get a ticket for speeding or be arrested, jailed, have their "privileges" revoked, made to pay never ending fees and fines, have their vehicle impounded, having to pay more fees and fines to get it out of impound, have to pay outrageous fees to an attorney to get their "privileges" back... and so on?
Just because the "speeder" didn't hurt anyone or do any damage, why do they get the benefit of the doubt that they "might not" have killed a family along the line somewhere? They don't get their life ruined for something that didn't occur.
I think we all agree about drunk driving, it's the punishment portion I do not agree with (in very limited situations). Even criminals have to obtain a "habitual" status before they get the really severe punishment. Three Strikes Your Out mentality.
Let's be clear... I never want to see a drunk driver on the road, but that's obviously never going to be the case (it will happen somewhere, sometime). But consider the chain of events that occur when someone's life is ruined... (cutting to the chase) if things don't improve for them quickly, it "could" put them on the path to becoming part of the criminal element in society (stealing to feed their family, doing "bad" drugs to cope with their situation, hating all cops... the list goes on and on).
This discussion in not about letting drunk people roam the streets freely, but rather how it should be dealt with. In the "no injury" scenario, in my opinion, compassion should be the first course of action.
Matthew 5:9 - Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
1 Peter 3:11 - Let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.
Want to challenge me, go ahead. I, like Tony, love a challenge... bring it punk.
Clean County PW
Active member
Where all untitled to our opinions so from what it looks like both Tony and Red do not understand how laws are written and why there enforced.
First off I know many good cops. No matter what Tony says or Red for that matter it has zero bearing whether I was a good cop or not or any other cops, retired cops,ex cops etc. Who may visit PWI. I think we all know what kind of cop we were or currently are.
What Tony & Red are failing to see is that Cops don't write the law. Their public servants that are paid by the public to honor and uphold the law. Red thinks Cops are wrong to lock him up for a DUI if he never does anything wrong even though he is driving over the limit of what the law states. In Reds case the majority of the time in my own experiences I did do what he thinks Cops should be required to do and that was to get the person home safely. I was not a DWI cop and basically most arrest to me were a pain in the azz. These notches in the belt talk here is pretty much nonsense.
The part of the job these two aren't comprehending is that cops are paid to enforce the laws. Not make the laws but to enforce it.
If that means Tony is driving around with a firearm and doesn't have the proper paperwork to do so and the laws in his area say you must have x,y or z then it doesn't matter what a cop thinks, Tony would most likely be arrested.
Do I think Tony should be license?? It doesn't matter what I think. Cops have to enforce the laws.(Tony may very well have a license but just making a point).
Now besides felonies or Misdemeanors, if Red was caught speeding which in most cases is a "Violation" does tue cop have to write him a ticket? Of course not. This is where a cop is allowed to use discretion.
Also Tony talks about a cop should not be scared doing a simple car stop? Don't know what You mean by that Tony...no clue. But here are your facts. The two biggest ways a cop gets killed on the job is dealing with car stops and family disputes. Was I ever scared when I had a car stop 3 am in the morning? Absolutely. Was I scared walking into a jet that just fell out of the sky..of course I was. It didn't stop me from doing my job.
The only time I can ever say I was scared to the point where I didn't go any further was when the subway Rapist was spotted in the subway right next to my city precinct. 3 of us cops got there first and 2 of them jumped onto the tracks and ran in the dark into the tunnel. I stopped right there because being from the suburbs I was not ready to jump on a subway track with a third rail(electrocution rail) and run into the dark.
I did call on the radio for the train to be stopped wherever it was at. Notches are kid talk. We were taught in the best police academy in the world then which was the NYPD Academy was to always remember you must he able to go home at night. Nothing says a cop has to jump into for example a shootout. He or she must at the very least call 911 in these severe cases.
So to blame cops like Tony & Red want to keep doing there "entitled" to their beliefs. What either one does to try to make change that they think is positive for the area I seriously wouldn't know.
At least where I live the majority of the public supports Police officers because they know there has to be those that need to serve and protect them. The NRA carrying card members or the general public that have legit gun permits/Lic are almost all the time nowhere to be found when the shizz is hitting the fan. The ones who are there time and time again and they also get killed doing there jobs at times and Tony is going to hate this-- The Cops.
First off I know many good cops. No matter what Tony says or Red for that matter it has zero bearing whether I was a good cop or not or any other cops, retired cops,ex cops etc. Who may visit PWI. I think we all know what kind of cop we were or currently are.
What Tony & Red are failing to see is that Cops don't write the law. Their public servants that are paid by the public to honor and uphold the law. Red thinks Cops are wrong to lock him up for a DUI if he never does anything wrong even though he is driving over the limit of what the law states. In Reds case the majority of the time in my own experiences I did do what he thinks Cops should be required to do and that was to get the person home safely. I was not a DWI cop and basically most arrest to me were a pain in the azz. These notches in the belt talk here is pretty much nonsense.
The part of the job these two aren't comprehending is that cops are paid to enforce the laws. Not make the laws but to enforce it.
If that means Tony is driving around with a firearm and doesn't have the proper paperwork to do so and the laws in his area say you must have x,y or z then it doesn't matter what a cop thinks, Tony would most likely be arrested.
Do I think Tony should be license?? It doesn't matter what I think. Cops have to enforce the laws.(Tony may very well have a license but just making a point).
Now besides felonies or Misdemeanors, if Red was caught speeding which in most cases is a "Violation" does tue cop have to write him a ticket? Of course not. This is where a cop is allowed to use discretion.
Also Tony talks about a cop should not be scared doing a simple car stop? Don't know what You mean by that Tony...no clue. But here are your facts. The two biggest ways a cop gets killed on the job is dealing with car stops and family disputes. Was I ever scared when I had a car stop 3 am in the morning? Absolutely. Was I scared walking into a jet that just fell out of the sky..of course I was. It didn't stop me from doing my job.
The only time I can ever say I was scared to the point where I didn't go any further was when the subway Rapist was spotted in the subway right next to my city precinct. 3 of us cops got there first and 2 of them jumped onto the tracks and ran in the dark into the tunnel. I stopped right there because being from the suburbs I was not ready to jump on a subway track with a third rail(electrocution rail) and run into the dark.
I did call on the radio for the train to be stopped wherever it was at. Notches are kid talk. We were taught in the best police academy in the world then which was the NYPD Academy was to always remember you must he able to go home at night. Nothing says a cop has to jump into for example a shootout. He or she must at the very least call 911 in these severe cases.
So to blame cops like Tony & Red want to keep doing there "entitled" to their beliefs. What either one does to try to make change that they think is positive for the area I seriously wouldn't know.
At least where I live the majority of the public supports Police officers because they know there has to be those that need to serve and protect them. The NRA carrying card members or the general public that have legit gun permits/Lic are almost all the time nowhere to be found when the shizz is hitting the fan. The ones who are there time and time again and they also get killed doing there jobs at times and Tony is going to hate this-- The Cops.
"Red"
Graphic Designer
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I do take exception to the part "that cops are paid to enforce the laws". To me, this "I was just doing my job" is a cop-out (no pun intended) and complete BS. - "All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void." Marbury vs. Madison
Quote from the link below.
I commend you for admitting (if only in part) "I did do what he thinks Cops should be required to do and that was to get the person home safely". On some level, I believe, you agree with me. People should be treated as people (precious life), not cash cows, punching bags or target practice.
The link below is an article (or well documented rantings of a mad man ???) that illustrates some of the points that I (and Tony [taking liberty here]) have been addressing.
http://www.dailybrian.com/brian-browns-blog/brian-brown-on-our-abusive-police/
Quote from the page.
Another quote from the page.
Read the whole article, there's plenty of information and references.
Quote from the link below.
I commend you for admitting (if only in part) "I did do what he thinks Cops should be required to do and that was to get the person home safely". On some level, I believe, you agree with me. People should be treated as people (precious life), not cash cows, punching bags or target practice.
The link below is an article (or well documented rantings of a mad man ???) that illustrates some of the points that I (and Tony [taking liberty here]) have been addressing.
http://www.dailybrian.com/brian-browns-blog/brian-brown-on-our-abusive-police/
Quote from the page.
Another quote from the page.
Read the whole article, there's plenty of information and references.
Michael DeRose
New member
Red you are falling on deaf ears about this drinking and driving issue. The best way to not get a dui is to not drink and drive. Also if your out and you drink to much you can always ask the bartender to call you a taxi. Those cops that lock you up for dui didnt put that drink in your hand. If you dont want to loose your license or pay fines then dont drink and drive its that simple. Your aurgument is very weak. I would like you to tell your case to someone who has lost a loved one do to a drunk driver and see if they dont spit in your face. Im just saying. You have the choice to drink and drive if you like just be prepared for the consequences that may follow if you get pulled over.
"Red"
Graphic Designer
I agree with you Michael (except for the part about my argument being weak), but you're missing my point (or possibly choosing to ignore it). I'm not talking about the cases where there has been an injury or damage. In those cases, I too believe, that the one(s) responsible should get the 'Full Monty'. It's sad that this is one of the facets of our society, and change is not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon.
Please, don't take this the wrong way, but stop twisting my words to fit your agenda. I am not in any way referencing those cases whereby there was a true injured party. I respect your input and your views, but you're only focusing on the injured party side, where I'm am only referencing the opposite side of that coin.
I made my choice a very long time ago, maybe because I realized after the fact how stupid I had been. I'm much more mature now than I was then. I support protecting people from from all kinds of harm, but I can only do so much. If my purpose here on Earth is to educate people then so be it, I will share my views with anyone who will listen and I won't back down from anyone that does not agree with me. They don't have to agree and I'm not going to force anyone to see things my way. I just think that ruining lives of people that have not been involved in any sort of injury / damage related case is not necessary and they should not be treated the same (or worse) than those that have.
I would rather people coexist peacefully, but there are others out there that are hell bent on seeing that this does not happen.
Please, don't take this the wrong way, but stop twisting my words to fit your agenda. I am not in any way referencing those cases whereby there was a true injured party. I respect your input and your views, but you're only focusing on the injured party side, where I'm am only referencing the opposite side of that coin.
I made my choice a very long time ago, maybe because I realized after the fact how stupid I had been. I'm much more mature now than I was then. I support protecting people from from all kinds of harm, but I can only do so much. If my purpose here on Earth is to educate people then so be it, I will share my views with anyone who will listen and I won't back down from anyone that does not agree with me. They don't have to agree and I'm not going to force anyone to see things my way. I just think that ruining lives of people that have not been involved in any sort of injury / damage related case is not necessary and they should not be treated the same (or worse) than those that have.
I would rather people coexist peacefully, but there are others out there that are hell bent on seeing that this does not happen.
Ok thats it, your over the line telling someone that they can't spell. Please no personal attacks from either one of you on spelling here.
We take miss-spelling vary serious here. This is your final warning
We take miss-spelling vary serious here. This is your final warning
RGilliam
New member
yea I'd love for my taxes to pay for the police to give some drunks a ride home every night. So they can do it again and again and again. Honestly, if your not responsible enough to know not to put my family in danger and everyone elses family in danger, then you shouldn't be driving in the first place. All it takes is one mistake. Remember, those other people you put in danger are someones mother, brother, sister, daughter, son. Tell that crap to someone who has lost there family.
BTW, how many people do you know that go to jail for speeding? Doesnt happen in Ky. Now maybe wreckless driving, but not speeding. Can't go to jail for it here.
BTW, how many people do you know that go to jail for speeding? Doesnt happen in Ky. Now maybe wreckless driving, but not speeding. Can't go to jail for it here.
"Red"
Graphic Designer
Those are your words, not mine - and quite an ignorant thing to say at that.
I completely agree, but sh!t does happens.
So what you're saying is... there's ZERO potential for someone "speeding" to misjudge the distance of another car or over/under compensate for a turn or not see another car coming from a blind spot and plow right into them? I can see your point now. Killing some unsuspecting family by t-boning them at 100 mph is fine, but only if they haven't been drinking.
Good for Kentucky, maybe the rest of us we'll be so lucky someday.
Lets just outlaw drinking, that will stop it.
"Red"
Graphic Designer
They tried that once and the redneck hillbilly's (currently known as NASCAR race car drivers) didn't like it very much.
SHAKE AND BAKE - Ricky Bobby
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junker1
Roundtable Host 2009
Please Red forgive me if I am wrong,
A few years back when I did drink, and the state of maine did not outlaw your passenger drinking ( that has changed ) I was at home and had one beer before I left the house. I was doing the right thing. not over indulging not being stupid just being what i thought was responsible. I got pulled over for a taillight and the officer smelt the beer. Next came the feild sobriety test. I was cool with that, I understood his position. no problems from me. I took the test and passed with flying colors but this junior officer was not sure, he could not make a decision on my sobriety so he called his seargent. seargent comes down and does the field sobriety test again. Pass again but now the seargent aint sure so he does another go round of tests. after he did not get the results he was looking for he made me go to the station and take a breathalyzer. I blew an .02/ or 4 i cant remember. one hour and fifteen minutes later and after a cab ride back to my truck I was FREE TO GO.
I think thats what red is trying to say. if i passed THREE tests why bother me? why continue to draw this situation out? These officers where trying hard to make a dui stick. I was stone cold sober and they tried to put my azz on the line to dry.
A few years back when I did drink, and the state of maine did not outlaw your passenger drinking ( that has changed ) I was at home and had one beer before I left the house. I was doing the right thing. not over indulging not being stupid just being what i thought was responsible. I got pulled over for a taillight and the officer smelt the beer. Next came the feild sobriety test. I was cool with that, I understood his position. no problems from me. I took the test and passed with flying colors but this junior officer was not sure, he could not make a decision on my sobriety so he called his seargent. seargent comes down and does the field sobriety test again. Pass again but now the seargent aint sure so he does another go round of tests. after he did not get the results he was looking for he made me go to the station and take a breathalyzer. I blew an .02/ or 4 i cant remember. one hour and fifteen minutes later and after a cab ride back to my truck I was FREE TO GO.
I think thats what red is trying to say. if i passed THREE tests why bother me? why continue to draw this situation out? These officers where trying hard to make a dui stick. I was stone cold sober and they tried to put my azz on the line to dry.
"Red"
Graphic Designer
Actually, I was referring to people that did drink too much and that should not have gotten behind the wheel, but I undertand your point as well. Sounds like in your case, they were definitely trying to get another 'notch' in their belt.
Anyone who says cops don't have quotas are either insane or lying.
junker1
Roundtable Host 2009
then im confused, so if they are shit faced drunk they should get a ride home from the police???
"Red"
Graphic Designer
No, not at all. Please go back and re-read my posts. Some of the other's enjoy spinning my words and/or making up stuff that is contrary to what I have said.
Michael DeRose
New member
We are not making up stuff you just have not clarified what you want the officer to do once they have someone pulled over and the driver is clearly drunk. Please explain what are the steps you would like to see from this point in the example.