Hood Cleaning School

Am I certified? No, I am setting back waiting, and watching. I have read most if not all of the material (i.e.) Phil Ackland materials, and I am confident that I could become so without much effort. I personally am holding on to my money until being certified means something, at which time I will become certified by whom ever is necessary. Rusty you have the right to do it however you see fit, whether or not most of us agree with your methods is immaterial. I guess it will all come out in the wash.
I think this thread will have to agree to disagree.
 
Dear Bryan,

Do you at least agree in principle that there should be an alternative to the Phil Ackland certification?

I respect your decision to wait to see what comes out in the wash. But shouldn't there be different voices in the mix to assure that all kitchen exhaust cleaners are represented? (Not just a bunch of Phil Ackland want-a-bee's buzzing around in a circle saying the same thing...but a true alternative?)

Our program over the past year has forced Delco and Phil Ackland to significantly improve what they were offering because for the first time in their lives they had real, honest to god competition. Not some back room deal between companies.

I can see so many things that our company has pioneered over the past year and can see them now being offered by Phil and Delco.

This discussion thread is perhaps the only real conversation that is occuring across these boards about certification and ways to go about it.

We welcome differing opinions because that is how we build a better, stronger organization that will lead the pack in kitchen exhaust cleaning.

I hope that one day each one of you will choose to become certified in your profession (either IKECA, PWNA, Phil Ackland, CHDCA or some other organization that might pop up in the future).

We are trying to offer an affordable means to achieve this so that the average kitchen exhaust cleaner can afford to meet the NFPA 96 standards and go about their business in a professional manner.
 
Rusty, Are you certified by PWNA, IKECA or Phil Ackland?
 
Phil Ackland has done more for kitchen exhaust cleaners than anyone in the field, and frankly if it wasn't for him, you would not be in business today selling certification to exhaust cleaners. He is one of the only reasons most of what is in NFPA 96 concerning cleaning kitchen exhausts is there. If I owned a kitchen exhaust cleaning certification school and I was able to charge guys thousands of dollars for me to certify them, I would be on my knees thanking the Lord every night for Phil Ackland.

I'll give you one example of why your certification isn't worth the paper that it is written on: ANYONE CAN CERTIFY ANYONE.

It's that simple. I could sell certifications on line for $50 and they would be just as valuable as the ones that you charge $2000 for. Until there is a standardized certification that is recognized by at least NFPA and ideally a government body, anyone selling certifications is just selling pieces of paper, very expensive ones at that. If the NFPA said tomorrow that the only certification that was valid was Phil Ackland's, then all of your students would be beating down your door asking for a refund. Obviously they could pick your course as the standard certification but I very much doubt that knowing Phil's history with the NFPA.

I hearby certify Bryan LeDane of Powerclean to be a Certified Grease Exhaust Cleaner(Bryan: send a check or money order to me for $50 and I will send you your certificate) :D

Nobody can really dispute the claims you make about your kitchen exhaust cleaning or business training as nobody on this board has ever been to your school. I have spoken to one of your former students but I will not rehash that conversation on this board. I asked them to join this board but I have not seen any posts from them yet. I think the only valid opinion of your school would come from graduates that have been running their businesses for a few months, not recent graduates(It seems like those are the only quotes you have on your website). I think if you could get some positive feedback from the guys that graduated from your school early last year, and an idea of the kind of money they are making, if it is anything like what you say they can make on your website, you could silence a lot of your critics.
 
thanks Matt but as I stated earlier I will hold on to my money at thes time
 
How many people on this board have been personally certified by Phil Ackland?

Is it possible that someone besides Phil Ackland himself is able to train and certify kitchen exhaust cleaners?

What happens when he is no longer able to teach? Will kitchen exhaust cleaning/training/certification cease to exist? No. Phil is just a person that has been preaching the message of certification years before us.

Does that mean that because he was first, that no one else can come along and improve on the process? No

Are we doomed to only clean kitchen exhaust systems the way that Phil cleaned them in the 60's, 70's & 80's? No.

We greatly appreciate what Phil has done (and is doing) for this industry. But just because his voice is the loudest doesn't make his voice more legitimate than other's voices.

We're not saying that we have all of the answers, but we are able to provide the same level of education and provide NFPA instruction that will meet or exceed any future certification protocol that is adopted.

We use his texts.
We use the NFPA 96.
We teach clean to bare metal.
We teach access panel installation.
We teach how to install grease collection devices.
We teach how to clean fans/filters/ductwork & hood.
We teach OSHA.
We teach EPA.
We teach Safety.
We teach Paperwork.
We teach Accounting/Bookeeping.
We teach Sales/Marketing.
We teach equipment.
We teach chemicals.
We teach time management.

We actually take the person on the roof and verify that they can clean an exhaust system to bare metal.

We believe that in order to certify someone that they must be able to clean an entire exhaust system from start to finish and that the instructor/certifier must be there in person while this process occurs.

So we give both a practical exam and a 140 question written exam.

So we may not have the name recognization that Phil has, but that doesn't mean that we aren't teaching to the same high standard that Phil does.

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Now to address your request to hear from students from a year ago.

The following is an email that I received from Richard in PA who completed his training Jan 2002 and has been in business now for over 1 year.

-----Original Message-----
From: Advanced Hood & Duct Service [mailto:xxxx@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 5:45 PM
To: Advanced Cleaning Systems
Subject: Re: Spring Newsletter


Hey Rusty,
Just getting over a computer virus here! Wasn't wearing my seatbelt and got hit (not using Mcafee at the time an infected email from a friend came) but all is well now.

I have a personal FYI that somewhat relates to the business if you're interested. I have had a personal goal set for myself for a many years of becoming a private pilot. Well this past Jan, I started to realize that dream by taking flying lessons and I love it. I am flying at least once a week and I'm ready to solo (flying myself without the trainer flying with me) in the next week and cant wait. It is a lot of work both in the air and in flight school but it really gives me a sense of accomplishment and I hope to have my license by the end of July. The business has not only given me the money but also the flexibility of time to realize this goal and for that I am truly very grateful. So next year I hope to fly myself to the weekend get together!

Thanks again and talk to you soon,

Richard

*******************************************

There is nothing more deeply satisfying than changing someone's life for the better. To see them grow their own company to the size that they want. To have the freedom to pursue their goals.

This is why we do what we do.

*******************************************
 
Rusty, Are you certified by PWNA, IKECA or Phil Ackland?
 
None of the above.

Phil started IKECA, PWNA so in essence all of these organizations are Phil (and there is nothing wrong with this).

We started our own organization in 2003 (CHDCA). We did just like Phil did in 1992 (IKECA) & 1995 (PWNA).

We examined closely what IKECA and PWNA would have to offer our company and came to the conclusion that for the amount of money that they require from us to become certified and remain certified would cost us thousands of dollars per person per 10 year period.

We feel that there are many kitchen exhaust cleaners who have not become certified because of the cost involved vs increased profit from being certified. We want to do something about that.

We feel that there is a more cost effective means to accomplish this goal. So we formed our own organization to represent us in our industry.

Cost are per member (IKECA vs PWNA) to remain certified (Doesn't include initial cost to become certified -books,course, test fee, travel, etc.):

10 year cost to be Certified with IKECA $6,515 + cost of 40 CEU's
PWNA $4,982-7,022 + cost of 13.3 CEU's

20 year cost to be Certified with IKECA $12,365 + cost of 80 CEU's
PWNA $6,932-11,012 + cost of 26.6 CEU's

30 year cost to be Certified with IKECA $18,215 + cost of 120 CEU's
PWNA $8,882-15,000 + cost of 40 CEU's

Each CEU cost approx. $100 per CEU

So we formed our own nationwide network of independent certified hood & duct cleaners from Canada and the USA to meet or exceed any NFPA 96 or governmental requirements to be considered "trained, qualified and certified."

We welcome what Phil has done and is doing for this industry. It can only be for the better.

I only hope that everyone that cleans kitchen exhaust systems can afford to meet these new 2004 NFPA 96 requirements as put forth by Phil and that he will take input from non-Phil associations. (since we aren't his 2 associations noted above that was asked for input).
 
Dear Matt,

We are taking a 3 prong approach to helping people.

1. Make sure that they can actually clean all accessible areas of a grease exhaust system from start to finish to bare metal, have insurance and operating a professional kitchen exhaust cleaning company (right equipment at the right time with the right paperwork with the right attitude). We are the only company that actually trains people by taking them one-on-one to restaurants and instructing them how to properly clean kitchen exhaust systems. Our students use their power washer to pass their practical exam. They have to completely/ independently be able to clean an entire kitchen exhaust system while the instructor/certifier is actually present visually inspecting the work performed.

2. Support them by helping them get clients. That is increase the value of the certification by increasing their profit. Provide them with sales/ marketing /bidding instruction (both classroom and real world). Give them the option to use our guaranteed clients program (for those who don't feel as comfortable with their marketing skills). Help them with direct mail, phone calls and etc. Actually answer their phone calls in person and answer their questions as quickly as possible. (Try that with the other guy once you have gone through his certification course...) We also have annual meetings for our members and their families to come together and discuss our industry and where we would like it to go.

3. Provide an affordable means to become a certified kitchen exhaust cleaning company business owner by charging all of our fees as an upfront cost with no back door costs or long term cost of being certified. Provide a lifetime membership to our certification organization while keeping their certifications active as long as they actually are cleaning kitchen exhaust systems. Provide an online bulletin board community for our members to help each other, quarterly news letters and the ability to mass email updates.

We are building a nationwide network of independent certified kitchen exhaust cleaners who are working together as a team to improve our industry. We invite all of those with similar views to join with us and do something to improve this industry.

We are trying to provide an alternative means for people to become certified and have it mean something.
 
Thanks for your reply Rusty. I was thinking more along the lines of what are you doing to make it more profitable for a kitchen exhaust cleaner to become certified? I can see what you are doing to make it profitable for someone to take your course through the actions that you have laid out, but what are you actually doing to make it more profitable overall for someone to become certified e.g. helping to make certification mandatory or making certified kitchen exhaust cleaners more visible and more desireable to our public (the restauranteurs)?
 
Dear Matt,

What we are doing to improve the value of certification is instructing insurance companies of the value of hiring certified hood & duct cleaners.

We are instructing fire marshals (specifically the ones in FL) by attending meetings and bringing them up to date on the latest changes and what the latest NFPA 96 standards are and how to enforce them.

We are forming our own nationwide network of independent certified hood and duct cleaners who are working together to improve this industry.

We are including predominantly on our advertising to the restaurants that we are in fact a certified hood & duct cleaning company.

We are informing lawyers (specifically in NJ & NY) about the importance of being a certified hood & duct cleaner.

We are informing anyone who will listen of the value, long term credibility that certification will bring to your company.

I applaud David for becoming not only PWNA certified but also IKECA certification. He is recognizing the importance to his organization.

I encourage anyone reading this post that isn't already certified to become certified. It doesn't matter to me which organization that you choose to become certified through, just as long as you do.

************************************************
Now to Phil's request:

If there have been any factual distortions, please let me know immediately so that I can edit them.

I only want the FACTS to come through in my posts.

************************************************

I encourage anyone looking into this industry to check out all of the organizations that exists so that they can make an informed choice when it comes to certification.
 
I agree that certification is a good thing, but Rusty all I have wanted to know since seeing all your post, is how do you justify your prices? You are an unknown entity but your initial prices for training and certification are more than anybody elses.

I understand your lifetime certification, but thats a bunch of crap. If your a certified engineer (P.E.) you must complete a certain number of hours a year as required to maintain your certification. In ten years the industry will change in some way. What you are saying is that someone certified at 20 years old and will become 50 and still in business, " a difference of 30 years", that codes, enforcement, disposal requirements, ect. have not changed. I don't think so. Yes you will have to pay more money for other certifications, but you will always be on the cutting edge of the industry.

I understand that you want to go against the grain. I am somewhat new to the business, but in all the information I have gathered, read, and talked with others about I have never heard or seen your name.

I do however read and see Phils post and literature "informative", which I am thankful for.

When you become the expert please let my know, by maybe a suggestion or helpful hint on how to clean hoods on this board, which I have not seen, I guess " that information cost big $$$". All I see is you defending you existance with your website banner on each reply, good advertisement I guess.
 
Dear Keith,

The way that we defend our prices is simple.

We offer 3 products.

The most expensive and the one that has been bantered back and forth for ages is the $16,500 ($16,000 with rebate) complete business package (training and complete equipment package).

We take people who have never cleaned a kitchen exhaust system, train them, set them up with a complete business, provide training manuals, master doc. manual, and verify that they can clean all accessible areas to bare metal using a steam power washer hybrid machine. Guarantee them clients and give them continuous support until they are independent business owners.

Advanced Cleaning Systems- $16,500
Service Master- $20k-50k
Molly Maid $42K-72K
Duraclean $33,900
Chemdry $19,950
Swisher $50k+
Maid Pro $40k-70k
Puroclean $76,250
Certapropainters $60k-75k
Jet-Black $35,900-53,900
Merry Maids $32,500- 49,500

People who are in the market for a business, a real business that is complete as ours, realize that an investment in our training program assures them the ability to start making money almost immediately without the usual learning time required (work for someone else for years, or trial and error hoping that you don't get sued till you figure it out.)
 
Rusty,
Why are you concerned with exhaust cleaners in NY and NJ being certified?
John
 
Dear John,

Hello. It’s nice to hear from you again.

Concerned about NY & NJ? We are concerned in the sense that we think that every hood cleaner should be certified.

***************************************
 
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I am the one that deleted your post promoting your program and school. You have said the same thing on other posts so lets move on.

We have a section that you can promote your goods and paid education and that is the section called DISTRIBUTORS.

If you have a problem with this, start your own site and you make your own rules. When you are in this Play Pen you abide by our rules.

David
 
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Dear David,

Thanks for editing my post. It's nice to have someone that knows me so well remove what I had to say.

If anything in this post is offensive or doesn't meet your standards, please feel free to edit it as well.

Rusty
 
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