Hood Cleaning School

Rusty

Now you are saying that your process limits your crews to small jobs-That is what we have been saying. If you market under the radar great-don't try to pull the smoke over our eyes with your all knowing wisdom.

You are a salesman trying to find a develop a niche. You know your "A B C"s" That being "Always Be Closing" (Glengary-Glen Ross).

Anyone of us who has been doing this for some time could develop a school and charge to learn our secret system or potion. However we have built a business on a shared knowledge from other and from trails and error.

Certifications in this field means or should mean that you have the ability to clean all hood systems, not just the small units. IKECA requires documents of that show that the company is a credible company. IKECA meeting cover much more than you basic hood process, it covers all aspect including OSHA, NFPA, suppliers, chemicals along with fellowship.

I wish you luck in your quest to re-invent the wheel.

The other day I gave a estimate to a customer who has not been cleaned in at least two years. Single hood easy grease, one level. I gave a low price of $285-I was in a good mood-the job should take 2.5 hrs/3 hours. She went into orbit, then I kicked the price up to $450 just to see what she would do. She didn't do well. She said the last guy took 7 hours and he charged $150. He was not using a helper. I told her to call him-he is out of the buz. To this date she has not found a cleaner. Does anyone consider this a true marketing niche?
 
Silence can be DEAFENING. Why do people continue to respond and contribute to the marketing campaign for this concept ?
 
Detroit,MI CKEC,

Very true and even more why am I even in the hood forum since I don't clean hoods.

I think it is how someone comes across to start with that sets others off as to whether or not they are going to speak their minds.


And your right, if all stop posting it ends.
 
Good morning all.

******
Jon's argument: Since you aren't affiliated with IKECA or PWNA they must not want you.

Well. We were invited to join IKECA when it first started, but we didn't agree with their pricing structure. As far as PWNA & IKECA I'm sure that if I sent in my MONEY that they would sign me up in a heartbeat to be a member of theirs.

I bet I could even attend Delco/PWNA's traveling kitchen exhaust cleaning certification road show that they'd even certify me to clean hoods.

2nd argument: Now you say, "Not once have you ever contributed to this or any board, makes people wonder just how much you really know."

Seems to me that I add to the concept of certifying kitchen exhaust cleaners. We offer a truly alternative way to meet the new NFPA 96 2001 requirement to be certified. I add to this discussion that has been going on for almost a year. If I didn't add anything to this forum, then this thread would be dead and no one would even take the time to read it.

3rd argument: Can't teach with only 2 years experience.

Now you say that 2 years isn't enough time to teach what you know. If that is true, how was it possible for David and Grant to hire people and train them when they first started out cleaning exhaust systems. You mean that I have to hire someone with years of experience to teach my employees? You mean that a person has to wait 10, 15, 20 years before they qualify to teach?

So let's say that your argument is valid that 2 years isn't enough time to learn how to teach someone. The problem is that Roger has been cleaning hoods for 10+ years.

According to your argument, then this would qualify him to teach someone how to clean hoods.

4th argument: You don't franchise, therefore your concept must not work.

We don't franchise because of the cost involved to our clients. If you're interested, it's only $24,500.

A business opportunity only costs $8000. The other $8000 that you keep mentioning is for equipment. Unless you want to start your hood cleaning business with no equipment or use your own.

********************
David's arguments:

1st argument: You don't know what your talking about, "don't try to pull the smoke over our eyes with your all knowing wisdom."

I never stated that I was all knowing or that I even knew a whole bunch. I do know this though, your disbelief that 1 person can clean hoods is wrong.

We're not the only hood cleaning company in America that cleans hoods with a 1 man technique, but we are the first to perfect it and mass market it to others looking to get into the business.

2nd argument: "You are a salesman" therefore anything that you have to say because you are trying to sell must be false.

It is true that I specialize in the sales and marketing of our concept. Does that mean that the salesman who sale your concept, David, and get jobs for your worker's to clean are liars when they represent your company?

No it doesn't. Just because I sell doesn't make me anymore or less knowledgeable about kitchen exhaust cleaning. It just means that I have done extensive research into how you clean hoods and realize that there are distinct advantages to a 1 man cleaning crew starting out that allows the average person to start a kitchen exhaust cleaning business and grow it to a company that is the size of yours.

3rd argument: We know what we are doing by sharing information on this forum and not starting a school that has the audacity to charge for information.

Just because you give away kitchen exhaust cleaning information for free doesn't make your information any more or less valuable than the information that we charge for.

4th argument: "Certifications mean you have the ability to clean all hood systems," and since you aren't certified by IKECA therefore you can't clean big exhaust systems.

Certification doesn't mean that at all. Certification only means that you have gained a certain amount of knowledge and theory about kitchen exhaust cleaning and you have shown how to clean hoods.

We are the only Certifying body that actually requires that our members demonstrate how to clean a hood from set-up, cleaning, to tear down. Does IKECA or PWNA actually require their certified members demonstrate how to clean a hood? NO. We DO.

You imply that we don't teach OSHA, NFPA, suppliers or chemicals. Oh, but we do. Not to mention that we provide fellowship by starting our own organization of Independent Certified Hood & Duct Cleaners Association. We provide them with a forum, much like this but more supportive, that they can talk back and forth amongst themselves.

5th argument: "She said the last guy took 7 hours and he charged $150." Sounds like this guy should have paid his $8000 and came through our ACS Master Certified Hood & Duct Cleaning Business, but since he didn't I'm sure that he will go out of business. Had he gone through our training he would have been more prepared, charged more, and no way would have taken 7 hours. Thanks for pointing out the need to be properly trained, and certified to clean kitchen exhaust systems. I appreciate it.

***************
kmjt's- argument: ditto with above

***************
Detroit, MI's argument: Silence can be deafening. Shut up people quickly before we help this guy anymore than we have.

I bring to the table valid arguments as to why one should be certified. I notice that you are a Certified Kitchen Exhaust Cleaner from PWNA. So you must agree that one must be certified to clean kitchen exhaust cleaners.

Funny. I AGREE WITH YOU 100% TOO. Thanks.

***********************
Jon's arguments again: I didn't like you from the first, therefore anything else that you have to say I disagree with.

I'm sorry if I have said anything in this forum that has made you not like me Jon. I'm a nice guy. I treat my customers fairly, and I have tried to treat all of your arguments fairly as well.

*********************
Summary:

I'm just trying to raise the standard by which all kitchen exhaust system's are cleaned. I'm not complaining about the Joe's of the world that take business from us by underbidding and then doing shoddy work that we then have to go behind and correct it once they have gone out of business.

I am standing up to the JOE'S of the world and doing something about it.

The way I'm doing something about it is reinforcing the concept that one MUST be CERTIFIED in order to clean kithcen exhaust systems.

I'm doing this by charging for the proper information required to start a complete kitchen exhaust cleaning business instead of giving it away for free on this forum.

I can't tell you how many stories I hear on this forum, "I have a chance to pick up 50 restaurants if I could only figure out how to clean kitchen exhaust systems for free on this forum..... please help...." and then the next post is all of you wonderful experienced kitchen exhaust cleaners telling him for free how to bid, what equipment he'll need, where to get supplies, etc, etc.

Now, I realize that guys like David have a good heart, and I don't have anything against him, but having someone pay for your dinner so that you can show them for free how to clean hoods doesn't help either.

I personally don't care if you are certified by IKECA, PWNA, Phil Ackland or US. Just as long as you are.

I may be a lone voice in the wind, but I'm standing firm on this concept.
 
Last edited:
What is it that you guys fail to understand?

If you are accepted by your local AHJ, you don't need to spend your hard earned money for a certificate from someone the AHJ doesn't know or care about! Just go ask them!
Work with your local fre and insurance people, teach them what they don't understand and VIOLA!

Read NFPA 96 for what it says, not what other people think it says! There is no in between the lines.
 
Jon's arguments again: I didn't like you from the first, therefore anything else that you have to say I disagree with.

I'm sorry if I have said anything in this forum that has made you not like me Jon. I'm a nice guy. I treat my customers fairly, and I have tried to treat all of your arguments fairly as well.

Rusty I re-read all I posted and cannot find where I said the above quote about not liking you.

Just remember one thing, I don't "hate" anyone, true I might not like someone but as for the word "hate", nope not a word I use.

Now are you sure it was not someone else who said they don't like you?
 
Misunderstanding, sorry Jon,

Jon wrote,

"I think it is how someone comes across to start with that sets others off as to whether or not they are going to speak their minds. "

Sorry. Sometimes on a public forum it's difficult to interpret the other conversational forms of communication that occur between 2 people when face to face.

I read more into this that there was. I thought you meant that the way I sounded initially turned you off to the rest of what I had to say.

Sorry, Jon. Hate was definitely the wrong word to use.

*****************
Duct Steamer's argument that a certificate is not needed.

Ductsteamer you are absolutely correct about the AHJ's. But what you fail to realize is that most insurance companies, lawyers, reptuable large restaurant companies, military bases, and the likes are specifically requesting that the hood cleaners that work with their systems be certified.

So although the AHJ in your area may not specifically request certification, that's not to say that they won't in the near future.

Also, one must realize that certification DOESN'T mean that one has mastered kitchen exhaust cleaning.

This forum has made more of our certification than there is. The reason that we offer certification is to verify a uniform teaching approach that assures a consistent amount of information has been given to each student. This way we have written proof that they have studied the certification manual and can answer at least 119 out of 140 questions correctly. It also means that they have proven themselves in the field to independently clean a kitchen exhaust systems following NFPA 96 standards.



We at Advanced Cleaning Systems have a strong desire to raise the standard by which kitchen exhaust systems are being cleaned and this is what we are doing to change the way things have been done.

We are creating a large independent network of certified hood & duct cleaners who have this same vision as us.

This gives us the ability to go after nationwide contracts, or at least pick up clients for our members in our 14 (soon to be 16) state network.

We would love for any kitchen exhaust cleaner to join us and press this concept further.

We are forming our own independent organization that focuses on the specific needs and requirements of kitchen exhaust cleaners. The actual ones doing the cleaning, not just the owners of the company (IKECA) and not just as a side note (PWNA.)
 
Keep fighting Rusty!
 
John Zema,

Rusty is not fighting so much as explaining his position. He has every right to do that and if you read his post he does not knock those who ask or rebuttle his point of view.

He also has sent Email to me and comes across pretty darn down to earth.

Leave out the hood cleaning stuff and I would have a lunch with him any day, but I probably would with most anyone here.

As I mentioned to Rusty I won't post here since I don't do hoods nor know much about that line of cleaning.

I shall let you who do it do the bickering, er fighting, NO wait, I mean debating.
 
Yea keep fighting-please-give us a little break-have your school -I could care less-charge as much as it will go. If they have the money take it. My offer is off for helping and or free ride along training.

He has won-this thing is getting to be a big bore. I think I will shut down my pc for two weeks.

David
 
Heeeees Baaaaccccckkkk!
You won't believe this, and it's only $2000.00, 3,000.00 or 8,000.00!!!!

CHDCA.COM
 
Last edited:
Never went anywhere...

re: He's back.

As I mentioned in our earlier posts we have formed our own organization to represent our Certified Hood & Duct Cleaners.

Our first annual meeting is April 27, 2003.

The name that was chosen by our members was:

Certified Hood & Duct Cleaners Association

http://www.chdca.com

We offer 3 ways to become certified.
http://www.chdca.com/jointoday.htm

option 1- those with no experience and need complete training in the field. That is we teach you how to clean hoods and set up with a complete business that is your outright- $8000

option 2- those that are already experienced hood cleaners and need to become certified and join our lifetime membership organization (your certification is active as long as you are actively cleaning hoods).- $3000

option 3- those that are currently certified with IKECA, PWNA or Phil Ackland and want to convert their expiring certifications to our lifetime membership and enjoy the savings of not having to pay and pay and pay with these other organizations to remain certified.- $2000

Comparison chart between CHDCA, IKECA, Phil Ackland & PWNA
http://www.chdca.com/comparisonchart.htm

How have you been Grant?
 
Dear Keith,

What do you disagree with our program?

We teach how to clean per NFPA 96 standards.

We set you up with a complete turn key business.

We guarantee you clients.

We completely equip you if you want.

We give complete support to assist you starting your business.

We're doing something to change kitchen exhaust cleaning so that the Joe's of the world don't give the rest of us a bad name.

What are you doing to change things? Or are just content to bad mouth a program which you don't know anything about.

What have you done this year to better the profession of kitchen exhaust cleaning?

We are doing something about this and are succeeding. If you don't like what we offer, guess what, no one will ever make you come through our programs. But for those who do see it. It's only logical to encourage a standardized approach to kitchen exhuast cleaning and require/make mandatory certification.

You may disagree with me, but give me good arguments why we shouldn't do what we do.
 
1. $2000.00 to convert one certification to another? What are your time and materials to do that? Maybe $20.00. Profit $1800.00.

2. How many restaurants even ask if you are certified? "Although I do believe certification is a good thing."

3. Recieved similiar training "not the same" from an established hood cleaner, as well as leads and support for well under $1000.00.

4. I am 40 hour OSHA trained. Class "5 days, eight hours a day". Enables people to work in many different areas in the environmental and haz waste industry. I paid $250.00 for the class but it ranges up to $500.00. College quarter with 12 to 15 hours - between $400.00 to $1000.00.

I guess what I'm getting at, with all these scattered points, is that if you can get people to pay your price good for you, but the profit margin you are making off people is ridiculous. But I guess if you only train 8 people a year at $8000.00 ($64,000 minus expenses "low"), your making a pretty good living with very little work. This is the last post about this overpriced training.
 
Dear Keith,

So did your OSHA training set you up with a business. Did they give you classes on accounting, sales/marketing, chemicals, safety, equipment, take you out and show you how to run your OSHA business, then give you phone support/ web support/ newsletter support. Did they guarantee you clients once you completed your OSHA 5 day course?

Or did they just train and let you figure it out on your own.

As far as CHDCA Option 3 to convert your existing certification from IKECA, PWNA or Phil Ackland for $2000 you have to understand that these organizations (Ikeca) charges over $6000 over a 10 year period just to remain certified + the cost of 40 CEU's (approx. $4000). So to remain certified from IKECA over a 10 year period will cost a company $10,000 per member.

Now here we are, CHDCA, and we are offering to convert their expensive certifications to our Lifetime Certifications which have only the initial cost of conversion, $2000.

So we save that company $8000 per member per each 10 year period. That means that we can save a company with 10 certified employees with IKECA $80,000 over a 10 year period.

Keith, are you certified with PWNA, IKECA or Phil Ackland?

If not, why not? We are simply offering a highly affordable option for the average kitchen exhaust cleaning company to meet the NFPA 96 requirements to be certified to clean kitchen exhaust systems. And even if your fire marshal, or AHJ isn't currently requiring that you be certified now. I can guarantee you that Phil Ackland is working on changing the NFPA 96 2004 edition to make it much more clear that you HAVE to be certified.

I equate certification to being like a Registered Nurse. Years ago one didn't have to be registered in order to be a nurse. You could just work for a big hospital/university and you would gain experience and be considered a nurse. That was then, this is now. Now you have to go to years of college and each state has their individual requirements to become Registered.

So the question is, do you want a Registered Nurse to care for you when you are in the hospital, or do you just want a person that has had informal training and been shown what to do but is not a registered nurse.

Same goes with hood cleaning. It is only a matter of time before it is required that you are certified.

We hope to help those with an affordable means to achieve this.
 
Last edited:
Rusty,

While what you are offering is cheaper than what is offered elsewhere, what you don't seem to understand is that Phil Ackland is a very well respected expert in the field. PWNA and IKECA are also well respected, and if an AHJ is looking for certification those three will in all probability be accepted Carte Blanche. Now you are willing to convert those certifications (for a large sum of money) into a CHDCA certification, but who are you? Do any AHJ's or other companies in the field recognize your expertise? Most exhaust cleaners have never heard of you or your school or your new certification program.
I think you are doing your students an incredible dis-service by charging them for a certification that in all liklyhood will not be accepted by anyone.
Heck, I could start my own certification course and only certify people that do work for me ( I wouldn't take all their money though) and I could and they could call themselves certified. But if it is not a recognized certification it isn't worth grease sludge.
The certification that may or may not make it into the 2004 edition of NFPA 96 will not say any Joe Blow's certification course is acceptable.
Your credibility amongst flue cleaners is highly questionable and if I were questioned by an AHJ on my thoughts of CHDCA certification, I would answer honestly, "Who are they and what gives them any authority to certify anyone?"
 
Dear Grant,

Our certification isn't just for our employees. It's for anyone who wants to join our nationwide network of INDEPENDENT certified hood & duct cleaners.

As our body grows we gain credibility and as time goes by we gain credibility. We've been in business now for over 10 years and we have now formed our own certification organization to represent us in this industry.

The NFPA 96 doesn't specify who or how one becomes certified. Phil has told me that he is having the codes changed so that only people who go through him are going to be able to be certified. I think that this is a little monopolistic in nature since he wrote the codes that say that you have to attend his course in order to be considered certified and he just happens to be the only company in the world that will be offering this certification.

We are standing up to this "It's Phil's way or the highway" approach to certification and offering a valid means for others to obtain certification. And in the future we will obtain/ attend/ meet or exceed any requirements that will be specified by the NFPA 96 in order to certify individuals to meet the NFPA 96 requirements to be certified.

We are working just like Phil to instill the values/ ethics/ proper business practices that go into becoming kitchen exhaust cleaning companies that we all strive to become. We follow the NFPA 96 2001 to the letter and teach this to our members.

You say that people can't join together and form an organization. Isn't that what IKECA or PWNA did?

You say that IKECA, Phil Ackland & PWNA have such credibility. So, does that mean that we can't gain just as much credibility in the future? That they are the only ones who are allowed to have credibility?

They simply got together and agreed to form an organization that would represent other kitchen exhaust cleaners.

We did too. It's just that we feel there is a better way.
 
How much support do you need to walk in a restaurant, talk to the owner or manager and proceed to sell your services? It ain't rocket science.

Accounting - quickbooks
Safety - common sense, read osha requirements
Chemicals - msds
Basics - covered in Phils literature, other stuff figure out on job
Support - dinner waiting at home after long day

Certified - no, but when an AHJ ask to see mine, I will give him your number and tell him that I just can't afford the one day training and wriiten test for $3000.00.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top