EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution

[Clean County PW]

http://www.powerwashnetwork.com/power-washing/1124-epa-enforcement-p-w-3.html#post75755

Seems like John you even recall she wrote a ton of pages

Does that Say she was the first to hold Enviro cert for PWNA?

It says she held the enviro class for the PWNA in Cleveland.. Was she the first.. Maybe.. I wouldn't know. Robert may bit I don't.

I wonder who that couple was who haunted her? Could the Company initials be PW? Also I know who Jon is in the above letter, how about Mike? Is it MH?

She doesn't seem to fault the PWNA in that letter..
I pity Kendra because she was a real good person...

What exactly is your point Ron about this letter?

 

[Tony Shelton]

I would like for you guys to examine this post from Kendra from 2001. I will address the issues in ALL CAPS because I can't bold or change colors in tapatalk.

She says:

And because the enforcement was sporadic at best, I could never get anyone to listen to the problems I was having. The customers refused to pay more, simply because they believed they dictated the price. So we started pushing enforcement. We also started an unbelievable public outreach program with the local EPA. We were trying to establish what the rules really were. In case none of you know, there has always been somewhat of a gray area when it comes to this field.............................

REALLY? SINCE WHEN DOES THE CUSTOMER NOT DICTATE THE PRICE? IF THE CUSTOMER won't pay, THEN THE PRICE IS TOO HIGH. THAT IS CAPITALISM. WELCOME TO THE REAL BUSINESS WORLD. SO WHAT COMES NEXT WHEN THE CUSTOMER REFUSES TO BUY YOUR SERVICE AT A PRICE THEY CAN LIVE WITH? WELL, ACCORDING TO KENDRA THE NEXT MOVE IS TO GO ENLIST THE GOVERNMENT TO FORCE THEM TO PAY FOR YOUR OVERPRICED SERVICE.

SHE CONTINUES:

........ On top of that, we have personally filed suit against 13 dealers here in Orange County for knowingly and willfully contributing to not only the unfair competition, but for the willful disposal of toxic/hazardous materials in to our storm drains. THIS is what will establish that WE, as contractors, dictate who they can use, and how it gets done. Not them...........

UNBELIEVABLE. THAT IS A SUREFIRE WAY TO SHOW THE PUBLIC HOW PROFESSIONAL WE ARE, SUE THEM FOR GETTING CHEAPER PRICES AND FALSELY ACCUSE THE COMPETITION OF POLLUTING. I AM NOT SURE BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS THREAD IS ABOUT DEALERSHIP CAR WASHING WHICH IS ALLOWED BY ALMOST ALL AHJS TO GO STRAIGHT DOWN THE STORM DRAIN!!!!!

SHE GOES ON WITH:

PWNA has known my “background” since day one. If any of you were in Columbus OH for PWNA in the Fall of 1998, I was asked to get up and speak at my own expense, and spill my guts out about everything we were doing. I have been trying to establish a fair and equitable playing field for legitimate contractors since day one. ................... PWNA specifically asked me to put together the Certification because of the amount of knowledge I did have, the work that I have been doing with regulators, and because I had been trying so hard to get this information out to other contractors for the last 3 years..............And as far as PWNA is concerned, they have supported me for the last 3 years in everything that I have been doing.

THAT SAYS IT ALL RIGHT THERE. SINCE THE 90'S THE PWNA HAS BEEN SHOVING MORE AND MORE INTERACTIONS WITH THE EPA AND WORKING TOWARDS MORE RULES AND ENFORCEMENT AND CONDONING SNEAKY TACTICS LIKE SNOOPING ON OTHER CONTRACTORS TO TURN THEM IN.

IT IS STILL DONE TODAY. THEY HAVE JUST REFINED THEIR TECHNIQUES TO WHERE THEY WILL SEND THEIR ED HILBORN HALFWAY ACROSS THE US TO SNOOP ON A CONTRACTOR NOW. THEY ARE SNOOPING INTO MY BUSINESS AND WILL SNOOP INTO YOURS IF YOU CROSS THEM.

THEY WILL GO ALL OVER THE COUNTRY PROMOTING DESTRUCTIVE BMP'S TRYING TO FORCE CUSTOMERS TO PAY 24 CENTS A FOOT AND HAVE APPOINTED A DIRECTOR TO SHOW THEM HOW HE HAS DONE THAT IN CALIFORNIA.

IN THE PROCESS THEIR VENDORS SELL TENS OF THOUSANDS IN UNNECESSARY COMPLIANCE EQUIPMENT THAT ENDS UP RUSTING AWAY IN WAREHOUSES AFTER THE SALES PITCH IS OVER AND THE CONTRACTOR FINDS OUT NO CUSTOMERS ARE BUYING AT THOSE INFLATED PRICES!

IT IS TIME TO VOTE WITH YOUR FEET. IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF BOTH ORGS PLEASE TAKE THE MONEY YOU SPEND ON THE PWNA AND DONATE IT TO THE UAMCC AND STOP SUPPORTING THIS FAILED BUSINESS MODEL THAT HAS ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING BUT MISERY, CONFUSION AND HIGHER COSTS FOR CONTRACTORS FOR 15 YEARS NOW.



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[Clean County PW]

I would like for you guys to examine this post from Kendra from 2001. I will address the issues in ALL CAPS because I can't bold or change colors in tapatalk.

She says:

And because the enforcement was sporadic at best, I could never get anyone to listen to the problems I was having. The customers refused to pay more, simply because they believed they dictated the price. So we started pushing enforcement. We also started an unbelievable public outreach program with the local EPA. We were trying to establish what the rules really were. In case none of you know, there has always been somewhat of a gray area when it comes to this field.............................

REALLY? SINCE WHEN DOES THE CUSTOMER NOT DICTATE THE PRICE? IF THE CUSTOMER won't pay, THEN THE PRICE IS TOO HIGH. THAT IS CAPITALISM. WELCOME TO THE REAL BUSINESS WORLD. SO WHAT COMES NEXT WHEN THE CUSTOMER REFUSES TO BUY YOUR SERVICE AT A PRICE THEY CAN LIVE WITH? WELL, ACCORDING TO KENDRA THE NEXT MOVE IS TO GO ENLIST THE GOVERNMENT TO FORCE THEM TO PAY FOR YOUR OVERPRICED SERVICE.

SHE CONTINUES:

........ On top of that, we have personally filed suit against 13 dealers here in Orange County for knowingly and willfully contributing to not only the unfair competition, but for the willful disposal of toxic/hazardous materials in to our storm drains. THIS is what will establish that WE, as contractors, dictate who they can use, and how it gets done. Not them...........

UNBELIEVABLE. THAT IS A SUREFIRE WAY TO SHOW THE PUBLIC HOW PROFESSIONAL WE ARE, SUE THEM FOR GETTING CHEAPER PRICES AND FALSELY ACCUSE THE COMPETITION OF POLLUTING. I AM NOT SURE BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS THREAD IS ABOUT DEALERSHIP CAR WASHING WHICH IS ALLOWED BY ALMOST ALL AHJS TO GO STRAIGHT DOWN THE STORM DRAIN!!!!!

SHE GOES ON WITH:

PWNA has known my “background” since day one. If any of you were in Columbus OH for PWNA in the Fall of 1998, I was asked to get up and speak at my own expense, and spill my guts out about everything we were doing. I have been trying to establish a fair and equitable playing field for legitimate contractors since day one. ................... PWNA specifically asked me to put together the Certification because of the amount of knowledge I did have, the work that I have been doing with regulators, and because I had been trying so hard to get this information out to other contractors for the last 3 years..............And as far as PWNA is concerned, they have supported me for the last 3 years in everything that I have been doing.

THAT SAYS IT ALL RIGHT THERE. SINCE THE 90'S THE PWNA HAS BEEN SHOVING MORE AND MORE INTERACTIONS WITH THE EPA AND WORKING TOWARDS MORE RULES AND ENFORCEMENT AND CONDONING SNEAKY TACTICS LIKE SNOOPING ON OTHER CONTRACTORS TO TURN THEM IN.

IT IS STILL DONE TODAY. THEY HAVE JUST REFINED THEIR TECHNIQUES TO WHERE THEY WILL SEND THEIR ED HILBORN HALFWAY ACROSS THE US TO SNOOP ON A CONTRACTOR NOW. THEY ARE SNOOPING INTO MY BUSINESS AND WILL SNOOP INTO YOURS IF YOU CROSS THEM.

THEY WILL GO ALL OVER THE COUNTRY PROMOTING DESTRUCTIVE BMP'S TRYING TO FORCE CUSTOMERS TO PAY 24 CENTS A FOOT AND HAVE APPOINTED A DIRECTOR TO SHOW THEM HOW HE HAS DONE THAT IN CALIFORNIA.

IN THE PROCESS THEIR VENDORS SELL TENS OF THOUSANDS IN UNNECESSARY COMPLIANCE EQUIPMENT THAT ENDS UP RUSTING AWAY IN WAREHOUSES AFTER THE SALES PITCH IS OVER AND THE CONTRACTOR FINDS OUT NO CUSTOMERS ARE BUYING AT THOSE INFLATED PRICES!

IT IS TIME TO VOTE WITH YOUR FEET. IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF BOTH ORGS PLEASE TAKE THE MONEY YOU SPEND ON THE PWNA AND DONATE IT TO THE UAMCC AND STOP SUPPORTING THIS FAILED BUSINESS MODEL THAT HAS ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING BUT MISERY, CONFUSION AND HIGHER COSTS FOR CONTRACTORS FOR 15 YEARS NOW.



Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2

So Ron gives Kendra legendary status... What's your take on her then Tony-- she was full of bull?

 

[Clean County PW]

I'm going to bed.. Great thread!! 10,000 hits before I get up tomorrow!! This has got to be by far the first thread to crack this number in this short amount of time on any Industry bb. Beats out my biggest post "Creation vs Evolution" thread I did over TGS when they first started to bring them up in the ratings. That was that biggest post for most of the duration of TGS and today it's @ 370 replies @ 13700 views.. This thread will pass that in a week and already crushed the post total... Unreal.
Goodnite.

 

[Tony Shelton]

So Ron gives Kendra legendary status... What's your take on her then Tony-- she was full of bull?

The the tactics she described in that post were full of bull. If she continued to use them I would guess she has moved on to another career that collects a paycheck. Irresponsibly like that isn't worthy of cutting checks to others.

There is plenty of work to go around. If you want to command higher rates pick a niche and become the best at it.

Becoming successful the way she and the PWNA promoted is a myth. Scott Stone has worked responsibly for years minding his own business and working at competitive rates. Jim Gamble has been complaining to regulators about everyone else and trying to demand ridiculous rates like Kendra apparently was. In 2009, according to Jims board in his office he was making about half what Scott Stone was. Now Scott is making more than ten times that.

Hard, honest, legal and smart work pays off. That is what the "contractor for contractor" UAMCC promotes. That is why they encourage training and certs.

You don't have to take shortcuts to become financially successful.

And if you do, you will never be really successful except in your own mind.



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[810f250]

I was informed by local AHJ the installation is private, but the property was mandated by the state to have installed , and maintained. In most cases these installations have an agreement, the AHJ has authority to enter property to inspect, order corrective action etc.

Nigel: I was informed by the Federal EPA they the have a right to enter property and inspect these as part of the SWPPP.

That is would make sense , my local AHJ only give me information that the command chain was from the Maryland State level , it is reasonable to think that the chain of command started higher up at the federal level.

I will attempt to obtain photos after a good rain event to observe its functionality and if it ever reaches the overflow piping.

 

[Robert Hinderliter]

You see John I will never get prosecuted for cleaning up pollution, how ever your mistaken.

If a property owner has pollutants on property and someone hauls them off they will be responsible for the pollution.

Second if a Rain event takes there pollution off property I will not be help liable ever. ( provided I did not ad pollutants)

No off property discharge is the most Responsible method if practiced.

Now if your talking you create pollution and pollute a property I say string you up by your shorts.

If I carry the pollution off property and I haul or dispose of illegally of course I will charged for criminal and possible restitution for damages.

 

[Tony Shelton]

http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/attachment.php?attachmentid=23013&stc=1[/IMG/QUOTE]

Ask Al Patterson if his income doubled or tripled in a year.

I am putting out the call to ANY POWER WASHER TO SHOW RIGHT HERE where their income doubled or tripled in a year after buying reclaim equipment!

This is all propaganda fed to regulators by reclaim salesmen!


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[Ron Musgraves]

View attachment 23005View attachment 23006



That is would make sense , my local AHJ only give me information that the command chain was from the Maryland State level , it is reasonable to think that the chain of command started higher up at the federal level.

I will attempt to obtain photos after a good rain event to observe its functionality and if it ever reaches the overflow piping.

The state is the ahj on private property. Local authority's typically know they do not have jurisdiction.




Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

 

[Clean County PW]

The the tactics she described in that post were full of bull. If she continued to use them I would guess she has moved on to another career that collects a paycheck. Irresponsibly like that isn't worthy of cutting checks to others.

So Ron do you agree with Tony that Kendra was really full of Bull?

 

[Clean County PW]

There is plenty of work to go around. If you want to command higher rates pick a niche and become the best at it.

Tony- isn't this double talk? Jim Gamble does this and gets top dollar.

 

[Robert Hinderliter]

It says she held the enviro class for the PWNA in Cleveland.. Was she the first.. Maybe.. I wouldn't know. Robert may bit I don't.

I wonder who that couple was who haunted her? Could the Company initials be PW? Also I know who Jon is in the above letter, how about Mike? Is it MH?

She doesn't seem to fault the PWNA in that letter..
I pity Kendra because she was a real good person...

What exactly is your point Ron about this letter?

John:

The first Environmental BMPs was by me at the opening of PWNA, April'93.

 

[Tony Shelton]

Tony- isn't this double talk? Jim Gamble does this and gets top dollar.

John, don't you remember that Jim and I used to be close friends till I realized what he really was. I love PWI, but I was removed as a mod and banned because I took up for him passionately when others called him a liar, only to realize I had been played the fool later. It was one of the worst misjudgments in character I have ever made in my life. I learned at that point that I will never, ever go against Shelly's early appraisal of a person because she is always right and I believe that is a gift she has from God.

In 2009 Jim was telling everyone he was making 24 cents a foot like it was happening all the time. When he came to my home he told me he had only made 24 cents a foot once and it was in a small garage. He told me he tries to get 18 cents a foot when he can. That is in direct contrast to what he spouts on the boards.

Believe what you will John. It is my word against his. Measure our words over the past four years and decide for yourself.

18 cents per foot is good money. And, in my opinion he deserves to be paid more than most garage cleaners from the pictures I've seen of his work. Just for the record I have been to Jim's home in 2009 and was also up in that area this summer. In contrast to seeing many of Ron's crews working I've never seen any of Jim's doing any work nor has he ever taken me to any places he's cleaned. His units were definitely dirty and smelly from being used, but I've never seen them in action. But from the pictures it looks like he does great work and deserves to be paid accordingly.

But for some reason that is not enough for him. He wants to put down other contractors for the manner they clean and the prices they get even though they are running highly successful businesses and are able to make profits that are sustainable while being 100% EPA and POTW compliant. He talks like every other contractor is worthless as dirt and they are dead set on killing children by putting pollution in their playgrounds.

That is all ridiculous talk that has no place in our industry. That is why he is banned almost everywhere.

That is why it was so shocking to see that Robert and the PWNA had joined forces with him. Robert has had plenty of time now to learn what Jim is all about and the depths he will go to to harm other contractors, yet he not only defends him but puts him up as some kind of example for us to follow (see PWC post of Robert telling Scott he should listen to Jim if he wants to be successful......rotflmao!)

So Robert knows the truth by now. There is no further excuse.

 

[Robert Hinderliter]

John, don't you remember that Jim and I used to be close friends till I realized what he really was. I love PWI, but I was removed as a mod and banned because I took up for him passionately when others called him a liar, only to realize I had been played the fool later. It was one of the worst misjudgments in character I have ever made in my life. I learned at that point that I will never, ever go against Shelly's early appraisal of a person because she is always right and I believe that is a gift she has from God.

In 2009 Jim was telling everyone he was making 24 cents a foot like it was happening all the time. When he came to my home he told me he had only made 24 cents a foot once and it was in a small garage. He told me he tries to get 18 cents a foot when he can. That is in direct contrast to what he spouts on the boards.

Believe what you will John. It is my word against his. Measure our words over the past four years and decide for yourself.

18 cents per foot is good money. And, in my opinion he deserves to be paid more than most garage cleaners from the pictures I've seen of his work. Just for the record I have been to Jim's home in 2009 and was also up in that area this summer. In contrast to seeing many of Ron's crews working I've never seen any of Jim's doing any work nor has he ever taken me to any places he's cleaned. His units were definitely dirty and smelly from being used, but I've never seen them in action. But from the pictures it looks like he does great work and deserves to be paid accordingly.

But for some reason that is not enough for him. He wants to put down other contractors for the manner they clean and the prices they get even though they are running highly successful businesses and are able to make profits that are sustainable while being 100% EPA and POTW compliant. He talks like every other contractor is worthless as dirt and they are dead set on killing children by putting pollution in their playgrounds.

That is all ridiculous talk that has no place in our industry. That is why he is banned almost everywhere.

That is why it was so shocking to see that Robert and the PWNA had joined forces with him. Robert has had plenty of time now to learn what Jim is all about and the depths he will go to to harm other contractors, yet he not only defends him but puts him up as some kind of example for us to follow (see PWC post of Robert telling Scott he should listen to Jim if he wants to be successful......rotflmao!)

So Robert knows the truth by now. There is no further excuse.

Tony:

Professional Disagreements are acceptable, but personal attacks degrades the industry and yourself.

 

[Tony Shelton]

Tony:

Professional Disagreements are acceptable, but personal attacks degrades the industry and yourself.

There is nothing personal about this. And reporting the truth is not an "attack".

Perhaps fishing through Jim's personal photobucket account would be more appropriate, or is that only fair game for you to do to Ron?

You and Jim are publicly purporting to represent our industry to the EPA, States, and municipality. Your credibility and that of Jim has a huge impact on your suitability to do so.


Signed #2 of the dirty dozen. (the "ignorant" one, and "mindless blabberer")

Well their is no doubt who is part of the "Ron Machine" & the "Dirty Dozen". Thanks for identifying yourselves.

That statement is based on ignorance; it does not say that. Watch the video on pwna.org .

Tony:

Don't you think these types of comments should be under "Mindless Blabbering 520"?

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Theres no fault, John T she was a pioneer

It says she held the enviro class for the PWNA in Cleveland.. Was she the first.. Maybe.. I wouldn't know. Robert may bit I don't.

I wonder who that couple was who haunted her? Could the Company initials be PW? Also I know who Jon is in the above letter, how about Mike? Is it MH?

She doesn't seem to fault the PWNA in that letter..
I pity Kendra because she was a real good person...

What exactly is your point Ron about this letter?

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Tony:

Professional Disagreements are acceptable, but personal attacks degrades the industry and yourself.

But calling my associates the dirty dozen is OK?

Your ridiculous sometimes Robert, double Standards of course.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

I think its Fair to say I'm not the only person who disagrees with you Robert, aside from the dirty dozen and the other 90% of the industry your on your own. Some of the PWNA people out of respect have listened to my regulators talk at multiple meetings. Maybe they are confused or just don't want to be threatened.

I'm going to check out of this professional Disagreement , if you want feel free to keep posting Robert.

I have always said if you want to wash Pollution to the sanitary or MS4 Robert Is the Pioneer. I just don't want those practices applied in my industry. They are not anywhere close to as responsible to what I use.

 

[Tony Shelton]

I don't see anything that can be accomplished further either.

I've tried to offer suggestions on how to fix this and Robert has steadfastly defended his decision to keep on his designated course defending his every decision.

At this point I think we have done all we can do trying to convince each other to bend and work together.

Frankly I don't want to work with anyone I can't trust anyway.

Robert, since you won't stop what you are doing running around all over the place trying to tell the authorities how to run their business, to our detriment, much like Kendra did till she ran all her customers off...... http://www.ocweekly.com/1999-10-14/news/down-the-drain/ ....I, personally will do everything I can to use your own arguments here and elsewhere to discredit your stance to regulators and will work with the UAMCC to reverse the damage already done.

We don't gain credibility by pricing ourselves out of existence.

We don't gain credibility by going around spying on our fellow contractors.

We don't get credibility by acting like we are so dumb that we have to be told every move to make or we will contaminate an entire city's water supply with some sidewalk runoff.

I hope you guys out there who believe in standing up for contractors will join the UAMCC and donate to help us do what we have to do to turn this around.

 

[Robert Hinderliter]

I don't see anything that can be accomplished further either.

I've tried to offer suggestions on how to fix this and Robert has steadfastly defended his decision to keep on his designated course defending his every decision.

At this point I think we have done all we can do trying to convince each other to bend and work together.

Frankly I don't want to work with anyone I can't trust anyway.

Robert, since you won't stop what you are doing running around all over the place trying to tell the authorities how to run their business, to our detriment, much like Kendra did till she ran all her customers off...... http://www.ocweekly.com/1999-10-14/news/down-the-drain/ ....I, personally will do everything I can to use your own arguments here and elsewhere to discredit your stance to regulators and will work with the UAMCC to reverse the damage already done.

We don't gain credibility by pricing ourselves out of existence.

We don't gain credibility by going around spying on our fellow contractors.

We don't get credibility by acting like we are so dumb that we have to be told every move to make or we will contaminate an entire city's water supply with some sidewalk runoff.

I hope you guys out there who believe in standing up for contractors will join the UAMCC and donate to help us do what we have to do to turn this around.