Vertical or Horizontal Diesel Burners

B

beyoungsr

New member
What are your preferances and why. Does one transfer heat better than the other? Do coils last longer in one than the other?
Is one easier to to service than the other?

Could two horizontals burners run out of a 6'x12' tandeem enclosed trailer with the ramp door, side door open and 14"x14" ceiling vent open?

Any input would be appreciated
 
I know you have to vent them out side some how. Just incase of a fire.
 
I would definately recommend venting them out.. probabley through the roof. We run our hot water skids inside an enclosed unit and while I have the materials to exhaust it I haven't yet. We don't use them very often.

Anyway your ceilings will be black in a very short period and the heat generated off of the burners could probably catch the ceiling on fire. It actually melted our inner vent on our trailer just from the exhaust "floating" 3 foot over to the vent.

Happy Holidays,


Greg
 
i have a stand-up

burner because when i bought my unit i was told they heat better and that lay down burner's could rot out and drop down on the unit.
I have never used a lay down burner so i dont know much about them.
I will say that the stand up type can be a pain in the rump to work on. Im sure the lay downs are much easyer to get at.
I have'nt had any major problems.
 
There are other varieties of burners. The european type uses downdraft, meaning it shoes the flame donw, instead of up. It works really well, and appears to use less fuel, in comparison to my horizontal heaters. The HOrizontals are easier to work on, because of the easier access to the vitals. I have never had a Vertical amerian style heater, so I don't know what their durability is, I do know that I have not had a major heater failure with my horizontal burners.

Scott
 
I have all horizontal burners. However the vertical burner was designed for mobile pressure washers. (Horizontals just lay in the wrap) this means that they are loose and move around when you drive. Most vertical are mounted in the machine and remain stationery.

I simply prefer the Landa machine and they didnt make the vertical at least when I started buying. They do now because they bought about 5 other companies out.

landa hostys & tuff all have both designs.....most factorys have both designs.


I do like working on the horizon, I’ve also been told they are easier to work on. I myself have never worked on a vertical machine.

Venting the machine in and enclosed area is a must. I once had machine mounted inside and I will never do it again. I realize you guys in cold country need to enclose machines.

Just a precautionary measure, be careful fueling that machine that’s enclosed. The gasoline can explode. You should also vent the fill to the outside if possible. Gas most important but if your doing the gas you might just do the diesel. I had a friend die fueling his in and enclosed place so I feel strongly about this and do not own anymore enclosed units. My re-claimers are enclosed and have external vents for gas and exhaust.
 
I lied in the above post i own two verticles but they are steam cleaners and i have not used them in about 6 years.LOL my mind is going,,,,,LOL

they are propane and i have never worked on them. Scotts been to my house i didnt rememeber if he seen them? I'm glad i remembered. I have never work on them.... steamcleaners dont break much.
 
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Thanks to all for the replies.
I extracted a lot of good info. Definitly have to vent!

Got the trailer to keep everything secure. The problem I have now is a 30 minute set up and take down time on each job.

Was wanting to keep everything in the trailer if possible. Will have to think on this some more.

Ron,
I filled a generator with gas in the trailer today after I had been using it several hours. The explosion scenario dawned on me half way through the fill up!

Thanks again for the replies!
 
the freind worked for me for years, i got the call from his wife that he was dead.

I have had two people i know in this Busz get hurt and the other was filling and old style machine with the gas tank mounted over the top. He didnt die but was disabled for life.


Gasoline is no good... becareful Fueling in and enclosed trailer...

Dave O if you read this do you take special precautions, or is your stuff vented?
 
I have a vertical mounted burner. I had also been told that they heat better, but I have no evidence of that.

I operate out of a 6x12 enclosed trailer, and carry 330 gals of water. I vent my burner out the side door now, but I'm thinking of venting it straight thru the roof, which I think will be better. I'm not sure if the exhaust elbow off the burner hinders performance, but I'll be finding out.

Here are a couple pix of the inside of my trailer.
 

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Man Tony... those are some hose reels! How much will they hold? Ours I bet are half that width and hold around 400' each. If I had to guess I would bet those would hold 700' of hose :)


I don't think you'll have any issues with the way you vented the burner. You have some pretty large flue pipe and as long as the exhaust is not restricted there should be no performance loss. Nice setup :)

Greg Rentschler
TimberSeal, Inc.
 
Tony,
Thanks for the pics. You know I wish I would have bought the 7'x16' enclosed trailer I was looking at instead of the 6'x12'. Think you and others were trying to sway me thay way. Dah.

Your exhaust is similar to what I had in mind. The thought was to buy two skids and vent out the open ramp door.

Are you happy with the All American skid?

Is fueling a problem. I guess the pump hose will reach the machine through the side door.

Thanks again!
 
I don't know which is better Horizontal or vertical burners. I have Horizontal burners because I preferred Landa PW's and thats what they came with.

Definitely Exhaust those burners out of your trailer for all the above reasons. If not you are looking for some real trouble by turning everything inside your trailer soot black and possibly causing a fire.

Here's a picture of my 7'-12' enclosed trailer
 

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The burner issue is more a matter of manufacturer. When we were buying our hot skids I was considering Hotsy 1260's initially. The sales rep wouldn't stop about the horizontal burners "overheating" and "burning up" because the heat within the system doesn't vent well. Naturally the vertical burners, as in the 1260, have last forever :)

To make a long story short we have have to horizontal burner skids for many years now with NO issues.

Greg
 
Horizontal versus vertical often gets down to what the manufacturer is willing to build.

European downdraft style burners are most efficient because they put a lot of air into the process and therefore atomize the fuel more getting better effieciencies just like a high efficiency oil furnace in your home.

North American builders have fewer emmission and fuel restrictions so they use older style oil burners with moderate efficiency. A well designed horizontal coil is as efficeint as a well designed vertical coil. Heat rises so a vertical coil does not need to be as finely designed. In either case they are a forced draft system.

For mobile applications a horizontal coil presents with packaging advantages and support for the coil. Horizontal coils have their full weight supported over a broader surface than a vertical coil. Unless internally braced a vertical coil will suffer more over the road, in most typical application. As an aside, engine vibration DOES NOT cause coils or welds to fail; square wheels, pot holes ando suspension DO. Mount your unit solidly in whatever conveyance you choose.

All coils condense to some extent, cold air or water will give up moisture to the hot air/water. Horizontal coils require a drain to prevent problems but they have a tendency to plug up and create a standing water situation where the coil will rust prematurely and be extremely difficult to remove. Vertical coils tend to be proof against this problem.

Burner service on a horizontal coil is easier because it is well positioned for access. Vertical coils require more thought in servicing because the burner is 'hidden' under the machine. Some manufacturers have addressed this by having a coil that can tilt. EVERY TIME you add something you include an opportunity for it to break.

When a manufacturer sets up a burner it is with a certain air flow through the coil. Any change in the air flow will cause the coil to burn dirty and soot up. this is why EVERY manufacturer uses a hood to collect exhaust as this does not change the burn. In other words in an ideal situation an enclosed presswasher would use a hood similar to the exhaust hoods in kitchens to collect the exhaust and allow it to vent to the outside. Remember that a 90 degree bend in the vent is equivalent to a 20' vertical rise. NEVER use a pipe of less diameter than the outlet of the coil, larger will be better. the shorter the run the better as well.

Gas fired coils are natural draft and require unimpeded access to air flow. Use the same criteria as above.

There are benefits to both styles of coil and really the perfect coil does not exist. Work with your local professional pressure washer dealer to find the right compromise for your applications.

Hope this helps? Cheers.
 
Hello Ron,

Yes we vent our burners and engines out thru the roof. This picture shows our 5800 Series Hotsy. We used a 12" pipe and diverter. This burner puts our about 900,000 Btu. The small pipe next to it is the exhaust for the engine.

I am also afraid of fire. For this reason we have this unit set up with a diesel engine and burner. We use off road K1 type fuel. We pump the fuel to the burner and engine from a saddle tank on the truck chassis. NO need to refuel on the job, we can carry 50 gallons of fuel.

Dave Olson
 

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Our primary unit use's Lp fuel rather than diesel. Also has a 12" diverter and stack. The power source on this truck is a Genset and it also operates on Lp.

Again NO refueling on the job. Fuel tanks (2-100 gallon water capacity) tanks mounted to the truck chassis. We can carry about 140 gallons of usable Lp fuel on this unit.

Dave Olson
 

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Just in case your interested this is what the top of our Red truck looks like (primary unit).

What your looking at is a 8" manhole for bulk filling (upper left). A removable roof hatch (we have another one on the other side of the muffler). And the discharge of the Whitco boiler.

Dave Olson
 

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