The PWNA - approved by the Board

[Ron Musgraves]

Ok Guy when will they stop doing damage?


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

 

[Ron Musgraves]

good news is that an "ATTEMPT" means they failed at doing so!

Might be they actually proved I have a business, they didn't have to sit outside the shop to figure that out.


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

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[Clean County PW]

The thing about it is I agree with the "Spirit" of the letter....."We All Need To Work Together" I believe in this with all my heart....But.....I also believe this will never happen as long as the lies, misinformation & deception continue from Organizations, People or Contractors that claim to be working in the best interests of the Enviroment and/or the Contractor.

We as Contractors need to take the lead in this and stop the finger pointing, name calling & playing the blame game and start coming up with a solution to the damage that's been done.

Yup the lies and the finger pointing on all sides have to stop..all of them. Also the only thing worse then passionate guys lying about one another is people in the background that do nothing.

You have the liars and the do nothings and all the complainers. At least Robert is still out there giving it all and trying to get things done at his age--- we all should be so lucky.

 

[Guy Blackmon]

Ok Guy when will they stop doing damage?


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

As soon as Organizations, People, & Contractors step in and start a "Re-Education" program. This might not "Reverse" the damage but it could stop it.

We as Contractors are not against reclaim and or filtration.....When Necessary!!!!.....And When Circumstances Call For It!!!........It Is Not Needed Or Called For In Every Instance!!!!

We as Contractors are against Misinformation, Deceit, & Down Right Lies for the sake of different revenue streams for everyone else off the sweat of our backs.

We want clean water, we want to abide by the Law.......We don't want unfair rules & Regulations, we don't want to (And Should Not) be portrayed as polluters by Organizations, People Or Contractors that claim to represent our best interests or our Industry..............Simple as that.

Thing of it is....The Misinformation & Deceit is allowed to continue Right Now On Another Forum!!!

 

[Guy Blackmon]

At least Robert is still out there giving it all and trying to get things done at his age--- we all should be so lucky.

Then John I ask you this...And this is by no means disrespect to Mr. H................What has he done as a advocate for our Industry and what is he doing? In your words John what has he done?

 

[Clean County PW]

Then John I ask you this...And this is by no means disrespect to Mr. H................What has he done as a advocate for our Industry and what is he doing? In your words John what has he done?

Easy-- where do I start. Industry insiders know you can pretty much write a book on Roberts career. I'll give you a quick outline of his life and what separates what he has done that has positively affected 1000's of contractors over the years.

First off Robert is obviously intelligent. He has a Master degree and he started in this industry at least 40 yrs ago if not longer. In that era it was common for people to protest the Vietnam war, boo our war veterans who were lucky to come home alive, and to just drop out and get high--- not Robert.

This can get long so I'll try to keep it short because I researched Robert when I went inside to try and get this Industry recognized thru a well known name first which was Roberts.(had this locked up but lost it on a technicality)

So to get to the meat and potatoes of what your asking.

This is what some of the things Robert has done:
He not only studied up on the EPA and learned how powerful they really are he also learned who some of the regulators were in his area and other area's and he did what most people only talk about doing-- he sat in with them. If it meant traveling to a different state-- Robert did that. He is no doubt a doer to go along with being an innovator(this term separates Robert from just about all others)

Robert sat in and learned first hand what the restrictions are or were going to be. He articulated back along with idea's from others(because Robert is smart & never pretends to know it all) on ways to be compliant that can still keep certain types of contractors(mostly in the commercial sector)out of harms way as in being ticketed. He always stated that there is a very minimum that can be done here which is to divert by maybe just using a $5 berm or whatever the cheapest way you can do that.

He came up with some reasonable,rational and logical ways to be compliant. He's not an AHJ. He is an innovator who gave contractors choices that they didn't know they had.

Speaking of choices he gave us the PWNA. At first he started the PWNA as a for profit because once again Robert is smart. At the forefront of this non profit was Delco. Once again thru listening and knowing he never takes the approach he is always right and it's his way or the highway, he gives the PWNA up to let it become eventually a non profit. Why would Robert do that? Being in the business world where we all own our own businesses and our Ego's on average will be more bloated then your every day Joe because we are all bosses-- Robert gives the PWNA away to anyone and everyone. Why? Because he saw thru doing what works and doesn't work. He is an innovator that does things that are positive and against the norm.

Yrs later Robert is pretty much forced almost all the way out of the PWNA so he starts another soon to be non profit which is the UAMCC.

This Guy has me perplexed with you. You are not afraid to speak your mind freely. That's an admirable trait in my book.
Knowing nobody is perfect there are some things about Robert that maybe others would do differently. But this man deserves the respect because he has done a lot. At the 70 yr range in age he is still out there in this country creating and still staying on top of the current issues and still sits in with people of knowledge and still tries to help more then the 1000's of contractors he already has.

So you ask in your words "meaning no disrespect towards Robert H- but in your words John what has he done?"

Do you know how hypocritical that sounds when your in an executive position in an organization that he created?

Doesn't that one thing alone tell you anything? Does it tell you right there he has done something positive or will this just fall on deaf ears once again so we can instead of helping Robert along we can pick apart everything he has done because where business people and we know everything??

All due respect to you Guy because like you I will ask the tough questions as well and not knowing your complete background but I was in a position for years on my other job where I had to ask the tough questions on all sides of the coin---
What is it with Robert your not seeing and why can't you give him the credit he deserves and if your smart enough and a good leader enough then take what he has done and help fine tune it?

Why not take that approach instead of this bizaar and so wrong of an idea that all Robert did was promote us a polluters.

Your a good man Guy and since where public right here I don't think you really believe that Robert did all this to promote us as Polluters. You see that for what it is because your a down to earth person. To paint Robert as a man who promotes his own industry as polluters is not only wrong it's viscous...and to top it all off it's a sales pitch. And you being grounded I think you can see the division that causes. It's classless,it's counterproductive and it's wrong to do that for a person who has done so much...including giving you an opportunity to serve as an Executive Director with the UAMCC which Robert created. That alone says he did something positive for....Guy Blackmon.

So now you have some answers to your question as to what has Robert done... How about this Guy

Do you truly believe Robert thru all his hard work for all these years, he has a son who is a big time contractor along with his other business, Robert having numerous friends that are contractors, he himself being like us Guy' a contractor..

Do you truly believe that what he does is paint us as polluters? Do You?

 

[Ron Musgraves]

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[Guy Blackmon]

Easy-- where do I start. Industry insiders know you can pretty much write a book on Roberts career. I'll give you a quick outline of his life and what separates what he has done that has positively affected 1000's of contractors over the years.

First off Robert is obviously intelligent. He has a Master degree and he started in this industry at least 40 yrs ago if not longer. In that era it was common for people to protest the Vietnam war, boo our war veterans who were lucky to come home alive, and to just drop out and get high--- not Robert.

This can get long so I'll try to keep it short because I researched Robert when I went inside to try and get this Industry recognized thru a well known name first which was Roberts.(had this locked up but lost it on a technicality)

So to get to the meat and potatoes of what your asking.

This is what some of the things Robert has done:
He not only studied up on the EPA and learned how powerful they really are he also learned who some of the regulators were in his area and other area's and he did what most people only talk about doing-- he sat in with them. If it meant traveling to a different state-- Robert did that. He is no doubt a doer to go along with being an innovator(this term separates Robert from just about all others)

Robert sat in and learned first hand what the restrictions are or were going to be. He articulated back along with idea's from others(because Robert is smart & never pretends to know it all) on ways to be compliant that can still keep certain types of contractors(mostly in the commercial sector)out of harms way as in being ticketed. He always stated that there is a very minimum that can be done here which is to divert by maybe just using a $5 berm or whatever the cheapest way you can do that.

He came up with some reasonable,rational and logical ways to be compliant. He's not an AHJ. He is an innovator who gave contractors choices that they didn't know they had.

Speaking of choices he gave us the PWNA. At first he started the PWNA as a for profit because once again Robert is smart. At the forefront of this non profit was Delco. Once again thru listening and knowing he never takes the approach he is always right and it's his way or the highway, he gives the PWNA up to let it become eventually a non profit. Why would Robert do that? Being in the business world where we all own our own businesses and our Ego's on average will be more bloated then your every day Joe because we are all bosses-- Robert gives the PWNA away to anyone and everyone. Why? Because he saw thru doing what works and doesn't work. He is an innovator that does things that are positive and against the norm.

Yrs later Robert is pretty much forced almost all the way out of the PWNA so he starts another soon to be non profit which is the UAMCC.

This Guy has me perplexed with you. You are not afraid to speak your mind freely. That's an admirable trait in my book.
Knowing nobody is perfect there are some things about Robert that maybe others would do differently. But this man deserves the respect because he has done a lot. At the 70 yr range in age he is still out there in this country creating and still staying on top of the current issues and still sits in with people of knowledge and still tries to help more then the 1000's of contractors he already has.

So you ask in your words "meaning no disrespect towards Robert H- but in your words John what has he done?"

Do you know how hypocritical that sounds when your in an executive position in an organization that he created?

Doesn't that one thing alone tell you anything? Does it tell you right there he has done something positive or will this just fall on deaf ears once again so we can instead of helping Robert along we can pick apart everything he has done because where business people and we know everything??

All due respect to you Guy because like you I will ask the tough questions as well and not knowing your complete background but I was in a position for years on my other job where I had to ask the tough questions on all sides of the coin---
What is it with Robert your not seeing and why can't you give him the credit he deserves and if your smart enough and a good leader enough then take what he has done and help fine tune it?

Why not take that approach instead of this bizaar and so wrong of an idea that all Robert did was promote us a polluters.

Your a good man Guy and since where public right here I don't think you really believe that Robert did all this to promote us as Polluters. You see that for what it is because your a down to earth person. To paint Robert as a man who promotes his own industry as polluters is not only wrong it's viscous...and to top it all off it's a sales pitch. And you being grounded I think you can see the division that causes. It's classless,it's counterproductive and it's wrong to do that for a person who has done so much...including giving you an opportunity to serve as an Executive Director with the UAMCC which Robert created. That alone says he did something positive for....Guy Blackmon.

So now you have some answers to your question as to what has Robert done... How about this Guy

Do you truly believe Robert thru all his hard work for all these years, he has a son who is a big time contractor along with his other business, Robert having numerous friends that are contractors, he himself being like us Guy' a contractor..

Do you truly believe that what he does is paint us as polluters? Do You?

I asked the question not of disrespect but of not knowing John, that's why I asked you....you would know. I have met Mr. H 3 times in my life, he is a nice Man and smarter Businessman. And no I don't believe what he does paints us as polluters....I believe what isn't done paints us as polluters.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Then I ask a Simple question, why is owning reclaim the only way you can get certification at the PWNA.

Lets face it, in BMP's reclaim is not listed as practice.

I can practice reasonable rational without Reclaim. Been doing it for 28 years


By the way you have to provide a receipt to belong to this program from a distributor. Yes thats a Fact not BS


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[Clean County PW]

I asked the question not of disrespect but of not knowing John, that's why I asked you....you would know. I have met Mr. H 3 times in my life, he is a nice Man and smarter Businessman. And no I don't believe what he does paints us as polluters....I believe what isn't done paints us as polluters.

Right... So what do you suggest should be done then?

 

[junker1]

Right... So what do you suggest should be done then?

Start by finding a leader or a voice that does not say:

No matter what I do or others, you are not going to change the direction of the EPA; it is too strong. You will have to work within their structure

 

[Doug Rucker]

Start by finding a leader or a voice that does not say:

No matter what I do or others, you are not going to change the direction of the EPA; it is too strong. You will have to work within their structure

+100....

 

[Ron Musgraves]

Start by finding a leader or a voice that does not say:

No matter what I do or others, you are not going to change the direction of the EPA; it is too strong. You will have to work within their structure

How about we just find one that has our interests, theres nothing wrong with the current way they look at us. We keep painting the polluter aspects we are all in trouble.

 

[Ohio pressure wash]

Right... So what do you suggest should be done then?

As a start....don't let vendors that would profit from equipment, represent the Org's to the AHJ's or write the BMP's.

 

[Guy Blackmon]

Right... So what do you suggest should be done then?

I suggest we change the way the officials view "Us" this is a quote from Mr. H. "When I challenged this their answer was that Contract Cleaners were not a very professional group and they wanted every drop to be discharged to Sanitary Sewer".

This is kind of the view that some of our Customers have of us too...yes?

When Charlotte N.C. had their "Workshop" the room was full of Contractors Celeste G., Roger G., Michael K., Carlos G., Jeff L., Josh W., Robert H., & Myself were there to help support the Charlotte area Contractors, which if I remember numbered about 50. The officials there were at first kind of nervous, but as the day went by and questions were asked and answered in a Professional manner by both parties. The officials were surprised at the amount of knowledge Pressure Washing Contractors had and I feel gained respect for our Industry, and even complimented the group on how Professional everyone acted.

Maybe we need to have our own "Contractor Workshops" and invite City officials to sit down with us so that we can work together. I'm sure once we educate these officials about what we do and who we are they will gain some respect for our Industry....We can find common ground.

It still gets on my nerve when people say "No Really, What Do You Do?" when I tell them I'm a Pressure Washing Contractor, or Business Owner. Or "Yea My Cousin Does That".....No He Doesn't!!!!!

We need more education, we need better education, we need the right education.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

YES.....

I suggest we change the way the officials view "Us" this is a quote from Mr. H. "When I challenged this their answer was that Contract Cleaners were not a very professional group and they wanted every drop to be discharged to Sanitary Sewer".

This is kind of the view that some of Customers have of us too...yes?

When Charlotte N.C. had their "Workshop" the room was full of Contractors Celeste G., Roger G., Michael K., Carlos G., Jeff L., Josh W., Robert H., & Myself were there to help support the Charlotte area Contractors, which if I remember numbered about 50. The officials there were at first kind of nervous, but as the day went by and questions were asked and answered in a Professional manner by both parties. The officials were surprised at the amount of knowledge Pressure Washing Contractors had and I feel gained respect for our Industry, and even complimented the group on how Professional everyone acted.

Maybe we need to have our own "Contractor Workshops" and invite City officials to sit down with us so that we can work together. I'm sure once we educate these officials about what we do and who we are they will gain some respect for our Industry....We can find common ground.

It still gets on my nerve when people say "No Really, What Do You Do?" when I tell them I'm a Pressure Washing Contractor, or Business Owner. Or "Yea My Cousin Does That".....No He Doesn't!!!!!

We need more education, we need better education, we need the right education.

 

[Ron Musgraves]

As a start....don't let vendors that would profit from equipment, represent the Org's to the AHJ's or write the BMP's.

I disagree, we need all people accountable to the industry. Loan gun men we do not need, Robert is a Loan person. Everything he has is based on himself, it really actually has no merit. He will attempt to get stormCom help, the big money here will shut it down. We need everyone helping including contractor , educators ,manufactures, authorities and Dist.

 

[Clean County PW]

I suggest we change the way the officials view "Us" this is a quote from Mr. H. "When I challenged this their answer was that Contract Cleaners were not a very professional group and they wanted every drop to be discharged to Sanitary Sewer".

This is kind of the view that some of our Customers have of us too...yes?

When Charlotte N.C. had their "Workshop" the room was full of Contractors Celeste G., Roger G., Michael K., Carlos G., Jeff L., Josh W., Robert H., & Myself were there to help support the Charlotte area Contractors, which if I remember numbered about 50. The officials there were at first kind of nervous, but as the day went by and questions were asked and answered in a Professional manner by both parties. The officials were surprised at the amount of knowledge Pressure Washing Contractors had and I feel gained respect for our Industry, and even complimented the group on how Professional everyone acted.

Maybe we need to have our own "Contractor Workshops" and invite City officials to sit down with us so that we can work together. I'm sure once we educate these officials about what we do and who we are they will gain some respect for our Industry....We can find common ground.

It still gets on my nerve when people say "No Really, What Do You Do?" when I tell them I'm a Pressure Washing Contractor, or Business Owner. Or "Yea My Cousin Does That".....No He Doesn't!!!!!

We need more education, we need better education, we need the right education.

I agree with 99% of this except I would never remove Robert from the Mix. If you look at the above people you mentioned Robert was there. He's way to valuable and his history is to important to be cast aside and I'm not suggesting that your saying that.

Robert knows how to open doors.. You want to negotiate?? You need people to open doors when your talking about a potentially massive group thing. Use all your available resources and Robert, like us, is a resource. A valuable one at that.

 

[Clean County PW]

As a start....don't let vendors that would profit from equipment, represent the Org's to the AHJ's or write the BMP's.

Sounds good on a post but it's wishful thinking. Jerry McMillan,Pete Marentey, even a Ron Musgraves and Doug Rucker could fall into a Vendor category..so do you eliminate them? Use all resources..because your going to need it.. IMHO.

 

[Clean County PW]

I disagree, we need all people accountable to the industry. Loan gun men we do not need, Robert is a Loan person. Everything he has is based on himself, it really actually has no merit. He will attempt to get stormCom help, the big money here will shut it down. We need everyone helping including contractor , educators ,manufactures, authorities and Dist.

Agree with most of what Ron is saying here except once again to depict a valuable resource in Robert now as a "Loan Gun man" doesn't work. See post above to Guy as to why that is... And these are opinions only on my part. Being in the negotiating positions in the past and when you think about this you are in a sense going to end up meeting somewhere in the middle if your lucky....you need every resource you have that gives a darn..

This is the philosophical difference guys like Ron and people like myself have. Ron wants to be the smartest guy in the room.. He very well maybe.. I would rather have the smartest people all around me..and You hit "them" with that.

Use your resources.