The PWNA - approved by the Board

offdutyfireman · Apr 14, 2011

Biodude said:
I believe it is 7 years now. We were before when everything blew up back then, dropped out and waited for the dust to settle, and jumped back in. Maybe I'm a little spoiled since he is in my backyard, but Mike went along with us today when we met with Minnesotas branch of the EPA to discuss what they are expecting from our industry and see if anything has changed since we met with them the last time. It went well and they are a lot more educated on and willing to work with our industry compared to what is going on in Houston. We stressed to them that we ARE NOT POLLUTERS like the stigma that is unjustifiably attached to our industry but instead we clean up and dispose of pollution and went on to explain why. They said they had never looked at it from that direction but could certainly understand our points. Overall a very productive meeting and it opened new lines of communication. I appreciated Mikes help.

I believe that the Hilborn guy stated he was not going to be shopping the BMP around, he was just compiling info to help the contractors or some such nonsense. Now you tell us he was meeting with the EPA in your state.

Doug Rucker · Apr 14, 2011

CarolinaProWash said:
Honestly, you'd think that at this point, the national orgs would think again about implementing LOCAL chapters to distribute the fuss where it needs to be.

I have all the sympathy in the world for the contractors in Houston but I've only seen a tiny handful posting about it. The rest of the country seems more upset about it than them. If the BOD of either org is so smart about what needs to be done, maybe they should stop trying to train washers and train BUSINESS people - to run chapters and handle local issues before they turn into a national rant.

Back to my coffee.....although reading this makes me wonder if cheese wouldn't be better!

Don't let the fact the we arent posting or voicing our concerns on this or any other board persuade you that we in Houston
are not upset. Believe me, there is NO ONE in the Country more upset than we here in Houston. Just understand there is a very good reason, (other than many are clueless) we do not participate in many of these discussions. But we ARE heavily involved and very active in discussions with who we feel can help us the most.

And by the way, Thank You to all that are helping us. Many have told us you can't fight City Hall and that we are wasting out time. Well #1, YES YOU CAN, and #2, this is not a fight against or about City hall, it's about COMMON SENSE. At least in my opinion it is.

AC Lockyer · Apr 14, 2011

Mike,

I support you! I think it is one thing to debate issues or critique ideas but the personal attacks are not only uncalled for but also the worst kind of dishonesty. Not everything you do is at 100% Mike............but its 90% and on a 10 point grade scale that is still an A. I honestly do not know how your or any of the other board members do what you do being business owners, family men and industry leaders all at once. I for one respect the efforts you and others are putting towards many good things you are doing for this industry.

Thanks!!!!!

AC

Biodude · Apr 14, 2011

offdutyfireman said:
I believe that the Hilborn guy stated he was not going to be shopping the BMP around, he was just compiling info to help the contractors or some such nonsense. Now you tell us he was meeting with the EPA in your state.

Wow! Somebody pee in your pool? Does the sun actually shine in your world or are you too busy sitting in your room with the shades pulled feeling sorry for yourself to know? I can see that you are definitely a "Glass is half empty" sort of guy. I have yet to see anything constructive in any of your posts over the years. It seems you are drawn to negativity which is sad. For your information, Mike was not shopping the BMP's like you are insinuating (again). Mike, like us, has a pressure washing business here in MN and is just as concerned about the EPA's attitude with regard to our industry. Maybe he should hide in the closet like you instead and hope Houston and other unjust regulations magically goes away?

offdutyfireman · Apr 14, 2011

You really don't get me, and I understand it is hard to get points across in words sometimes. I firmly believe Houston is the way it is because of meddling by vendors and orgs. I am not in the closet. The BMP's drawn up by the PWNA are detrimental to the washing industry so I want them nipped in the bud. Mike may be a great guy, but that is not the impression I got from him in our phone call. The exact opposite. I don't care what anyone else does as long as it does not mess with my little world. When it does, I want it to stop.

Ron Musgraves · Apr 14, 2011

Thats all great John, welcome to the industry.

Clean County PW said:
Here;s a post I put on a different bb that pertains to this. I have also been in contact thru emails as to what is going on. I have offered my services to the PWNA if they need a Liason between Law Enforcement and the Power washers wether it be PWNA contactors or all contractors at large.

Besides that I have never said I was an expert in the Enviromental cleaning dep't. I do what I can & I learned it from Robert Hinderliter back in the day when I took his classes which I have taken many times. He has taught in those classes what the bare minimum is needed to be Compliant. So my Post and also an email to Robert was to help in a way that most here can not do. Since the Houston PD has a Liaison person to the Powerwashers I felt if needed I could be the Liaison person from the Powerwashers back to the Houston PD. This is all good and we should all help where we can.

My emails are private but this post wasn't. I've already been contacted by the PWNA that they feel they have what they need to talk to the proper AHJ's and they thanked me for my offer. So for now they are confident that they don't need me to be involved at this time and I am happy about that because I like to leave the expert stuff with the experts. But my offer stands to them that in any time they feel threatened or misunderstood I will fly there in a very short notice to be there to do what I do best when surrounded by brains. I am on your side and I also understand the Law Enforcement side because I'm living it.

Lets support each other whether your a PWNA member or not. As for the PWNA memberships level being low we did have around 500 members at one time. Its alot easier to get that number back and as times get tougher the more we need each other.

Anyway here is that post where I was responding to Jim Gamble and Jim Cooney who I personally like. I don't follow the norm when it comes to friendships. These guys have always been truthfull to me so I return the respect back to them. And yes I respect Scott Stone and Russ Spense no matter what they feel about these guys. OK to that post-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim and Jim thats great that you guys are doing what it takes to get those Parking garages and make the biggest bucks you can from cleaning them. Thats smart business on both ends since we all know most parking garages are the ultimate cash cows to there owners. I can't fault either one of you for that.

On a different note I am contemplating on going to Houston as a Police officer and not as a Powerwasher so that I may be a Liason from them to the Power washing community. This will all be on my dime if done because I am a believer in what cops love to say "Do the right thing" and in this case I may try to educate them with some heavy hitters on what the proper procedures are when it comes to "Environmental Cleaning" and a big money get up of course is one way of doing that but that is not the only way and it may not even be the safest way. I'm not knocking you and Jim Gamble for your beliefs because I know you two are some real smart dudes. What I do is I try to represent what I have learned the best way to clean and to also support those methods and sometimes these methods are extremely cheap.

I could write a chapter on this but I'll end it here. You to guys have found your nitch so run with it. Your bound to make a ton of money and thats the name of the business game. The reality of this is that there is other ways to clean and it will cost the garages far less money and the EPA enforcement agencies will be happy. Guys in the business trying to scratch out a living can't expect to compete with guys like yourselves and they shouldn't have to and with that being said they will not make the money you guys make per garage but they will and can be compliant and its an easy process.

As for me I have put it out there to the Houston PD and others that if asked I will be a Liason between them and the Powerwashers who want to bring forth the bare basics to the extreme on how to keep our waters safe. My goal is to always represent the plenty and not the few because the few like you and Jim don't need assistance because you have the deep pockets to do this on your own and make a ton of money in the process.

I hope you guys don't take this wrong. I am supportive of going the full monty when it comes to parking garage cleaning and who wouldn't be but where talking enforcement here and who should be fined and thats where I think I can possibly help in making a difference to keep the hard working brother/sister in this field gainfully employed. Now don't get crossed up and think for a second I;m talking Lowballers because I'm not even though there prices could be way below yours and Jims. What I'm talking about here is a much larger group then you guys who could be put out of business because of what some law Enforcement wants to fine them....and if that happens not only does it hurt these poeple it hurts......the whole country. Remember its the small businesses that carry this country and its not the Walmarts and the other big box stores. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I am a fighter and even though I am the law to some extent if I see a unfair injustice happening which may be going on in Houston some times you have to put the cards on the table and take a stand to show the ones who think they know the way the mistakes there making.
If one person ask me to do this and he is not one who frequents these boards... you can put your money on the table....that I'll be going. I have family commitments on July 21st but this is growing legs and if it grows anymore then in my good conscience I may have to go down there and do what I do best.... and NO its not shooting the most bullseyes but its being persistent to show what is right and what is wrong.

I am busy as hell but for a certain individual and more importantly the industry I will fight that fight. An injustice may be happening because of AHJ's may be blindsided. I hope I'm not needed but this is what I do best if I can gather all the facts and have some brains around me. Will see what happens. Until then I still plan on keeping my business busy at all cost because the next generation which includes my 2 girls are going to have it way tougher then my generation ever did so in that sense its all out war to make the bucks now -----------------

jlpressure · Apr 15, 2011

Clean County PW said:
Here;s a post I put on a different bb that pertains to this. I have also been in contact thru emails as to what is going on. I have offered my services to the PWNA if they need a Liason between Law Enforcement and the Power washers wether it be PWNA contactors or all contractors at large.

Besides that I have never said I was an expert in the Enviromental cleaning dep't. I do what I can & I learned it from Robert Hinderliter back in the day when I took his classes which I have taken many times. He has taught in those classes what the bare minimum is needed to be Compliant. So my Post and also an email to Robert was to help in a way that most here can not do. Since the Houston PD has a Liaison person to the Powerwashers I felt if needed I could be the Liaison person from the Powerwashers back to the Houston PD. This is all good and we should all help where we can.

My emails are private but this post wasn't. I've already been contacted by the PWNA that they feel they have what they need to talk to the proper AHJ's and they thanked me for my offer. So for now they are confident that they don't need me to be involved at this time and I am happy about that because I like to leave the expert stuff with the experts. But my offer stands to them that in any time they feel threatened or misunderstood I will fly there in a very short notice to be there to do what I do best when surrounded by brains. I am on your side and I also understand the Law Enforcement side because I'm living it.

Lets support each other whether your a PWNA member or not. As for the PWNA memberships level being low we did have around 500 members at one time. Its alot easier to get that number back and as times get tougher the more we need each other.

Anyway here is that post where I was responding to Jim Gamble and Jim Cooney who I personally like. I don't follow the norm when it comes to friendships. These guys have always been truthfull to me so I return the respect back to them. And yes I respect Scott Stone and Russ Spense no matter what they feel about these guys. OK to that post-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim and Jim thats great that you guys are doing what it takes to get those Parking garages and make the biggest bucks you can from cleaning them. Thats smart business on both ends since we all know most parking garages are the ultimate cash cows to there owners. I can't fault either one of you for that.

On a different note I am contemplating on going to Houston as a Police officer and not as a Powerwasher so that I may be a Liason from them to the Power washing community. This will all be on my dime if done because I am a believer in what cops love to say "Do the right thing" and in this case I may try to educate them with some heavy hitters on what the proper procedures are when it comes to "Environmental Cleaning" and a big money get up of course is one way of doing that but that is not the only way and it may not even be the safest way. I'm not knocking you and Jim Gamble for your beliefs because I know you two are some real smart dudes. What I do is I try to represent what I have learned the best way to clean and to also support those methods and sometimes these methods are extremely cheap.

I could write a chapter on this but I'll end it here. You to guys have found your nitch so run with it. Your bound to make a ton of money and thats the name of the business game. The reality of this is that there is other ways to clean and it will cost the garages far less money and the EPA enforcement agencies will be happy. Guys in the business trying to scratch out a living can't expect to compete with guys like yourselves and they shouldn't have to and with that being said they will not make the money you guys make per garage but they will and can be compliant and its an easy process.

As for me I have put it out there to the Houston PD and others that if asked I will be a Liason between them and the Powerwashers who want to bring forth the bare basics to the extreme on how to keep our waters safe. My goal is to always represent the plenty and not the few because the few like you and Jim don't need assistance because you have the deep pockets to do this on your own and make a ton of money in the process.

I hope you guys don't take this wrong. I am supportive of going the full monty when it comes to parking garage cleaning and who wouldn't be but where talking enforcement here and who should be fined and thats where I think I can possibly help in making a difference to keep the hard working brother/sister in this field gainfully employed. Now don't get crossed up and think for a second I;m talking Lowballers because I'm not even though there prices could be way below yours and Jims. What I'm talking about here is a much larger group then you guys who could be put out of business because of what some law Enforcement wants to fine them....and if that happens not only does it hurt these poeple it hurts......the whole country. Remember its the small businesses that carry this country and its not the Walmarts and the other big box stores. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I am a fighter and even though I am the law to some extent if I see a unfair injustice happening which may be going on in Houston some times you have to put the cards on the table and take a stand to show the ones who think they know the way the mistakes there making.
If one person ask me to do this and he is not one who frequents these boards... you can put your money on the table....that I'll be going. I have family commitments on July 21st but this is growing legs and if it grows anymore then in my good conscience I may have to go down there and do what I do best.... and NO its not shooting the most bullseyes but its being persistent to show what is right and what is wrong.

I am busy as hell but for a certain individual and more importantly the industry I will fight that fight. An injustice may be happening because of AHJ's may be blindsided. I hope I'm not needed but this is what I do best if I can gather all the facts and have some brains around me. Will see what happens. Until then I still plan on keeping my business busy at all cost because the next generation which includes my 2 girls are going to have it way tougher then my generation ever did so in that sense its all out war to make the bucks now -----------------

John you could screw up a wet dream, you may be best staying home LOL. Hi John!!!!

Ron Musgraves · Apr 15, 2011

I think John Should get on the BOD of the PWNA and co chair with Robert. John could then travel to Houston, this will be good. I nominate John to assist the PWNA in Houston.

I think anyone willing to help should and John I want to thank you for helping the PWNA. Go get them buddy

jlpressure said:
John you could screw up a wet dream, you may be best staying home LOL. Hi John!!!!

Clean County PW · Apr 15, 2011

jlpressure said:
John you could screw up a wet dream, you may be best staying home LOL. Hi John!!!!

Wet Dreams??? How come I never get those... well except one time at Band Camp....Hi Jeff hope I didnt pop into your wet dream because you know I would screw that up for ya....lol

Clean County PW · Apr 15, 2011

Ron Musgraves said:
I think John Should get on the BOD of the PWNA and co chair with Robert. John could then travel to Houston, this will be good. I nominate John to assist the PWNA in Houston.

I think anyone willing to help should and John I want to thank you for helping the PWNA. Go get them buddy

Ron I think back to your phone call when you said I just want to be liked by everyone. Yea I'd rather be liked but when it comes to business and controversial stuff like this being liked is at the bottom of my list. Reason why I never could be a politician or a suck up. I had more problems with bosses then most people did including disrespecting and getting written up in the Navy for calling our Legal officer in front of many a fat **** Piece of ****. The odd thing there and its hard to tell it in a post so I'll just leave it at this..My legal officer was asking me to do something that was disrespectful to the ship next to ours which was an aircraft carrier with an Admiral on board. He was wrong but I was in deep trouble for disobeying a lawful order. Thankgod my New ship Captain was from Hells Kitchen NY. He exonerated me in Captains mass but with a stern warning which I won't repeat what that was here. The guys loved it though that I called the LT(Our legal officer) what he needed to be called.

I support Robert H. as I do with the PWNA. I don't agree on everything they do and some of them probably despise most of what I do which is entertaining these bulletin boards. You Know Ron I also support what your doing here but I think your misunderstanding my point which was if the law Enforcement was going to have a Liaison between them and the Power washers I could at least try to offer to help the Powerwashers by being a Liaison back to Law Enforcement. Obviously that apparently is not needed so that takes me off the hook but I was going to go if needed.

Thats the difference between guys like myself and guys Like William Page who's all about crapping down anyone's boot he can when they offer any kind of help. Good for him. He's fine on his own but He'll never understand or refuses to understand that him alone doesn't help others where groups can help many. Thats fine and like I said good for him. Guys like him can never knock the spirit out of guys like myself no matter how low they go.

So Ron I know your cracking about me getting on the PWNA BOD... I've done that and it probably wasn't for me...well maybe not but if I had time I would like to join you guys in Houston to see first hand whats going on there.....but like I said...Its best to leave the experts there to iron this out with whoever they have to iron it out with. I'll sit back and learn from what you guys do and I support anyone who wants to help show the way to the AHJ's the proper way to do things so Contractors can keep on keeping on. If William could pull his head out of his Azz because I know he;s smart and he had a good idea and went there to help out I would support him to. Thats just me. There's so much other stuff going on in peoples everyday lives that its darn near impossible for them to go to Houston so for them and myself I wish all of you guys luck.....and Like Michael Hillborn said we should all try to work together on this or at the very least not beat each other down....because that screws it all up.
Good Luck

offdutyfireman · Apr 15, 2011

John, you are misunderstanding me not wanting someone to do something detrimental as not wanting to help. You going to Houston as a cop who happens to be a pressure washer is not going to help. The BMP's from the PWNA are not going to help. I have a good idea but most don't see it. As long as people who have or do stand to profit from BMP's are involved in their creation, it can be no good for us. We are both fighting the same thing, just from different approachs. My approach is to either let municipalities slowly begin enforcement, to work with them locally, by myself, like I did in my own area or Jeff L did in his, or pay for professional representation if the need occurs. I can assure you that the answer is not more BMP's from the very people that are supposed to be helping the "industry".

Tony Shelton · Apr 15, 2011

John, if you met William you'd realize what an intelligent thinker he really is. William offers a perspective that gets overlooked when emotions come up on a frenzy and everyone jumps on board something without thinking of the consequences. When that happens, just take off your boot - William will poop in it. And rightly so - someone has to help steer the ship when it starts taking the wrong course.

Many years ago William would have been respected as a man of his convictions. In todays "post Alan Alda" world guys like Carlos who communicate well (by today's standards) are held in higher esteem than solid individuals like William who just simply say what they mean.

John, you fit in that category too. You just say what you mean. If everyone did that we'd probably be able to find more common ground.

Ron Musgraves · Sep 10, 2012

Lets see where this goes Years later

Ron Musgraves · Nov 23, 2012

Any Changes

Ron Musgraves · Jan 1, 2013

Stand together and do whats wrong for our children

PWNA HQ said:
 This letter was written by Mike Hilborn, PWNA Executive Director. It was reviewed and commented on by the PWNA Board of Directors. This letter has been approved for distribution by the PWNA Board of Directors.

The Problem Facing Us All

Houston could be the tip of the iceberg. I have yet to read a BMP that is as contractor friendly as the BMP/Guide/Paper submitted for review by the PWNA (changes are being made to improve it). Read any of the following already published BMPs and you will learn how potentially dark the future of our industry could be.
· http://www.saws.org/conservation/ordinance/PowerWash/Power_Washing_Guide.pdf
· http://www.ci.springfield.or.us/esd/bmp powerwashbook.pdf
· http://www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/41/sb/publications/powerwash.pdf
· http://phoenix.gov/streets/bmps.html
· http://ci.st-helena.ca.us/images/city/Docs/SurfaceCleaner Guide12.04.pdf
· http://www.sbprojectcleanwater.org/powerwashing.html
· http://www.cabmphandbooks.com/documents/industrial/mobilecleaning_surfacecleaning.pdf

BMPs will be written and enforced by municipalities across the country. We the contractors need to be involved in that conversation (please see previous letter for what the BMPs are and what they are not). We more than anyone know how to protect our waters. If we do not lead, well intended politicians and bureaucrats will write the policies and rules which will have unintended consequences therefore increasing the pollutants in our waters. An example:
· A recent bulletin board post described (as I understand it) a customer that has suspended all fleet washing because of the liability associated with the Clean Water Act. The customer was having their fleet washed by a PWNA contractor that was preventing waste water from entering the storm drain using their reclaim system. The customer is now going to have their vehicles washed on a much less frequent basis by their drivers. The result will be dirty trucks driving down the road with rain water washing contaminants into storm drains. The exact opposite of the intent of the Clean Water Act.

If Others are to Respect Us, We Must Respect Ourselves

If we want to protect and grow our industry we have to have the best ideas of everyone. Right now if someone makes a post on a bulletin board that is not to the liking of a select group, that person is insulted, intimidated or bullied. Ewelyn Beatrice Hall once said "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I talk to some of the sharpest people in our industry that do not post their thoughts and ideas on the bulletin boards because they choose not be mocked and disrespected. Or worse yet, they fear they will be made a target of intimidation and bullying. An example:
· I think it is safe to say that the Board of Directors leadership on the BMPs has been controversial. I would humbly submit that as Executive Director of the PWNA, I am the primary face and voice of the PWNA. During the past two weeks I received a quick flurry of annoying texts before I had that number blocked. The Board of Directors received an unprofessional and vulgar email letter referencing me (Jackie reads these emails). In addition a You Tube video posted on 2 bulletin boards was addressed specifically and only to me. I would suggest a phone call would have allowed for a conversation and given me the opportunity to explain my position. If a phone call didn't seem comfortable, then emailing me the You Tube link would have been an appropriate choice. However, I don't believe that was really the purpose of the video being posted on a bulletin board for all to see. It is my opinion (and the opinion of others) that the purpose of the video was to send a message to everyone that if you disagree with this person that he might make you a target.
Bullying and intimidating me is one thing:
1. The Executive Director is an unpaid, volunteer position - I don't lose any money if I'm fired or resign
2. I don't have a store or sell anything on the internet
3. I discontinued my franchise program
4. I don't feel like I have a lot to lose in this matter
5. I kind of like the attention
However, it will upset me greatly if I see this being done to someone else. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone where this is happening to them. With that said, a recent post compared a letter I wrote last week to have been written by Carlos. I received that as a great compliment. I was always impressed with how well Carlos could write. My writing compared to Carlos; again, I appreciate the compliment.

I'm not suggesting we sit around a camp fire singing Kumbaya. I am suggesting that we allow people to express their ideas without fear. If you disagree with me all the time, I would guess you will be right at least 50% of the time. Allow for the opportunity to have a conversation, don't make it personal. The exchanges we have between each other should be positive and build each other up, even when we disagree.

It is Time for All of Us to Stand Together

It is my opinion that there has never been a more urgent time than now where we all stand together as contractors to defend our industry. I can guarantee that we will not all agree on every issue. However, we can take the best ideas from everyone to form our decisions. John Dickinson said "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". The BMP issue has not yet been decided, you may not see value in our Certification Program, you may not agree with our Water Reclaimer Program, you may not like the history of the PWNA, and I can understand it if you don't like me. Do not let any of those things get in the way of protecting your family, the life you have created, and the business you have built.

SIMA Snow and Ice Management Association 1,500 members
ICPI Interlocking Concrete Pavement Institute 1,000 members
NCMA National Concrete Masonry Association 8,400 members
LMCCA Low Moisture Carpet Cleaners Association 2,500 members
ACCA Air Conditioning Contractors of America 4,000 members
PDCA Painting and Decorating Contractors of America 2,000 members

UAMCC/PWNA 300 members

How can it be that an industry as large and diverse as ours has only 300 members between the two organizations? I was recently at a meeting with the Twin City Sewer Department (Metropolitan Council) with another PWNA member when the director asked how many members our organization had. When I told him that we had 250 members, he asked if our organization was brand new. All of us as members is what will make us strong. With a large membership comes a loud, powerful, clear voice.

One Last Thing

It would be my privilege to work together with the leadership of the UAMCC. I'm quite confident that we can accomplish much more together than apart. The past is behind us, let's work together to build the future of our great industry.

If anyone would like to talk to me about this post, please call me directly at 612-868-7312 or email me at mike.hilborn@pwna.org. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Mike Hilborn and the Board of Directors of the PWNA

Ron Musgraves · Jan 1, 2013

Stand together and do whats wrong for our children

PWNA HQ said:
 This letter was written by Mike Hilborn, PWNA Executive Director. It was reviewed and commented on by the PWNA Board of Directors. This letter has been approved for distribution by the PWNA Board of Directors.

The Problem Facing Us All

Houston could be the tip of the iceberg. I have yet to read a BMP that is as contractor friendly as the BMP/Guide/Paper submitted for review by the PWNA (changes are being made to improve it). Read any of the following already published BMPs and you will learn how potentially dark the future of our industry could be.
· http://www.saws.org/conservation/ordinance/PowerWash/Power_Washing_Guide.pdf
· http://www.ci.springfield.or.us/esd/bmp powerwashbook.pdf
· http://www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/41/sb/publications/powerwash.pdf
· http://phoenix.gov/streets/bmps.html
· http://ci.st-helena.ca.us/images/city/Docs/SurfaceCleaner Guide12.04.pdf
· http://www.sbprojectcleanwater.org/powerwashing.html
· http://www.cabmphandbooks.com/documents/industrial/mobilecleaning_surfacecleaning.pdf

BMPs will be written and enforced by municipalities across the country. We the contractors need to be involved in that conversation (please see previous letter for what the BMPs are and what they are not). We more than anyone know how to protect our waters. If we do not lead, well intended politicians and bureaucrats will write the policies and rules which will have unintended consequences therefore increasing the pollutants in our waters. An example:
· A recent bulletin board post described (as I understand it) a customer that has suspended all fleet washing because of the liability associated with the Clean Water Act. The customer was having their fleet washed by a PWNA contractor that was preventing waste water from entering the storm drain using their reclaim system. The customer is now going to have their vehicles washed on a much less frequent basis by their drivers. The result will be dirty trucks driving down the road with rain water washing contaminants into storm drains. The exact opposite of the intent of the Clean Water Act.

If Others are to Respect Us, We Must Respect Ourselves

If we want to protect and grow our industry we have to have the best ideas of everyone. Right now if someone makes a post on a bulletin board that is not to the liking of a select group, that person is insulted, intimidated or bullied. Ewelyn Beatrice Hall once said "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I talk to some of the sharpest people in our industry that do not post their thoughts and ideas on the bulletin boards because they choose not be mocked and disrespected. Or worse yet, they fear they will be made a target of intimidation and bullying. An example:
· I think it is safe to say that the Board of Directors leadership on the BMPs has been controversial. I would humbly submit that as Executive Director of the PWNA, I am the primary face and voice of the PWNA. During the past two weeks I received a quick flurry of annoying texts before I had that number blocked. The Board of Directors received an unprofessional and vulgar email letter referencing me (Jackie reads these emails). In addition a You Tube video posted on 2 bulletin boards was addressed specifically and only to me. I would suggest a phone call would have allowed for a conversation and given me the opportunity to explain my position. If a phone call didn't seem comfortable, then emailing me the You Tube link would have been an appropriate choice. However, I don't believe that was really the purpose of the video being posted on a bulletin board for all to see. It is my opinion (and the opinion of others) that the purpose of the video was to send a message to everyone that if you disagree with this person that he might make you a target.
Bullying and intimidating me is one thing:
1. The Executive Director is an unpaid, volunteer position - I don't lose any money if I'm fired or resign
2. I don't have a store or sell anything on the internet
3. I discontinued my franchise program
4. I don't feel like I have a lot to lose in this matter
5. I kind of like the attention
However, it will upset me greatly if I see this being done to someone else. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone where this is happening to them. With that said, a recent post compared a letter I wrote last week to have been written by Carlos. I received that as a great compliment. I was always impressed with how well Carlos could write. My writing compared to Carlos; again, I appreciate the compliment.

I'm not suggesting we sit around a camp fire singing Kumbaya. I am suggesting that we allow people to express their ideas without fear. If you disagree with me all the time, I would guess you will be right at least 50% of the time. Allow for the opportunity to have a conversation, don't make it personal. The exchanges we have between each other should be positive and build each other up, even when we disagree.

It is Time for All of Us to Stand Together

It is my opinion that there has never been a more urgent time than now where we all stand together as contractors to defend our industry. I can guarantee that we will not all agree on every issue. However, we can take the best ideas from everyone to form our decisions. John Dickinson said "United We Stand, Divided We Fall". The BMP issue has not yet been decided, you may not see value in our Certification Program, you may not agree with our Water Reclaimer Program, you may not like the history of the PWNA, and I can understand it if you don't like me. Do not let any of those things get in the way of protecting your family, the life you have created, and the business you have built.

SIMA Snow and Ice Management Association 1,500 members
ICPI Interlocking Concrete Pavement Institute 1,000 members
NCMA National Concrete Masonry Association 8,400 members
LMCCA Low Moisture Carpet Cleaners Association 2,500 members
ACCA Air Conditioning Contractors of America 4,000 members
PDCA Painting and Decorating Contractors of America 2,000 members

UAMCC/PWNA 300 members

How can it be that an industry as large and diverse as ours has only 300 members between the two organizations? I was recently at a meeting with the Twin City Sewer Department (Metropolitan Council) with another PWNA member when the director asked how many members our organization had. When I told him that we had 250 members, he asked if our organization was brand new. All of us as members is what will make us strong. With a large membership comes a loud, powerful, clear voice.

One Last Thing

It would be my privilege to work together with the leadership of the UAMCC. I'm quite confident that we can accomplish much more together than apart. The past is behind us, let's work together to build the future of our great industry.

If anyone would like to talk to me about this post, please call me directly at 612-868-7312 or email me at mike.hilborn@pwna.org. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Mike Hilborn and the Board of Directors of the PWNA

Christopher · Jan 1, 2013

offdutyfireman said:
I believe that the Hilborn guy stated he was not going to be shopping the BMP around, he was just compiling info to help the contractors or some such nonsense. Now you tell us he was meeting with the EPA in your state.

Mike Hilborn called me up and we talked about the several pages I typed that were wrong with the bmp's that they had written, why they were wrong and stated why they were wrong all in the info I typed up here on this bbs in response to their proposed bmp's that he told me on the phone several times that he swore that would not be shopped to any city, they were just for the pwna.

Even when several of us typed up changes (some of us typed up pages of changes) and why they needed to be changed in the pwna's bmp's, talked to Hilborn on the phone and told him why they needed to be changed, it still fell on deaf ears and they still used what they thought would be good for the industry, even though we took a lot of our own time and typed up changes and why they needed to be changed for the better for our industry.

I still cannot believe that Hilborn called me, swore to me that they would use the changes and would not shop the bmp's to cities but the org ended up doing so anyway.

Ron Musgraves · Jan 1, 2013

Christopher said:
Mike Hilborn called me up and we talked about the several pages I typed that were wrong with the bmp's that they had written, why they were wrong and stated why they were wrong all in the info I typed up here on this bbs in response to their proposed bmp's that he told me on the phone several times that he swore that would not be shopped to any city, they were just for the pwna.

Even when several of us typed up changes (some of us typed up pages of changes) and why they needed to be changed in the pwna's bmp's, talked to Hilborn on the phone and told him why they needed to be changed, it still fell on deaf ears and they still used what they thought would be good for the industry, even though we took a lot of our own time and typed up changes and why they needed to be changed for the better for our industry.

I still cannot believe that Hilborn called me, swore to me that they would use the changes and would not shop the bmp's to cities but the org ended up doing so anyway.

I never thought someone would ever be attempting to discredit me!!

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

Guy Blackmon · Jan 1, 2013

The thing about it is I agree with the "Spirit" of the letter....."We All Need To Work Together" I believe in this with all my heart....But.....I also believe this will never happen as long as the lies, misinformation & deception continue from Organizations, People or Contractors that claim to be working in the best interests of the Enviroment and/or the Contractor.

We as Contractors need to take the lead in this and stop the finger pointing, name calling & playing the blame game and start coming up with a solution to the damage that's been done.

Russ Spence · Jan 1, 2013

good news is that an "ATTEMPT" means they failed at doing so!

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