The Master Mind Principle - Think and Grow Rich

offdutyfireman said:
You are not following me. That is the polar opposite of what I am saying. The Bible is the ultimate guide and God's words for us to follow. It is not, however, a self-help book. Man cannot help himself. Stone, and others like him promote the idea that it is within our ownself to be a better person. That is not true. We cannot change ourselves. God can change us. Self help is and new age thinking is a direct contradiction to the Bible.
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If we follow biblical principles we will enjoy more success in life than any of these so-called "life coaches" can provide.

The Bible shows us that we have infinite self worth even when we fail.

The Bible holds the final, permanent, unfailing key. The knowledge, acceptance and implementation fills all voids.

All these self help programs are like cocaine. That is why people keep looking for more all the time like junkies. In the end it is just like cocaine. Once the ride is over and you've wasted your soul you are left with the same thing you started with.

Nothing.







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We can't simply read a "guide to life" and depend on its author to perform the transformation for us. We need to get the knowledge, meditate on the meaning and application and decide to do the right thing. Then God will support us in our conscious efforts.
"Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason. 2 And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God." Romans 12:1,2
 
Wow thanks guys, I appreciate you hacking my thread with all of the bible hoop la!

The commandments are basic rules for a modern civilization. With out them we would all still be barbarians.

You don't need to "follow" the bible to be a good person and I am personally offended when I read I do not come from a place of "good moral up bringing"

That couldn't be further from the truth! I lead an integrity based life. As far as I am concerned that is all one needs to be at peace with their self.

I do not need some "Holy" book to tell me how to lead my life. I can think for my self.

My father raised me on the golden rule - treat others as you would want them to treat you!

Now if we could get off this holy roller discussion and get back on the topic of a mastermind group I would greatly appreciate it!
 
DJ Carroll said:
Wow thanks guys, I appreciate you hacking my thread with all of the bible hoop la!

The commandments are basic rules for a modern civilization. With out them we would all still be barbarians.

You don't need to "follow" the bible to be a good person and I am personally offended when I read I do not come from a place of "good moral up bringing"

That couldn't be further from the truth! I lead an integrity based life. As far as I am concerned that is all one needs to be at peace with their self.

I do not need some "Holy" book to tell me how to lead my life. I can think for my self.

My father raised me on the golden rule - treat others as you would want them to treat you!

Now if we could get off this holy roller discussion and get back on the topic of a mastermind group I would greatly appreciate it!
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Well, the mastermind himself has spoken and set us all straight. I thought this entire discussion was relevant to the thread but I guess I was wrong.

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You do realize that the Bible is the basis for the Golden Rule?

Incidentally, The reason the Bible came into it is because Off Duty said that the writer of your book was an evil person. Since I feel that anyone that follows biblical precepts at least is making an attempt to be moral and ethical, I felt that was an unrighteous and unfair assessment. For whatever reason, it appears that you have a problem with me defending the very ideas that you were putting out. It won't happen again, no matter how wrong someone may be. Maybe...

As for denigrating the Bible, or any other "Holy Book", you need to mature a little bit, because you do not understand how deeply ingrained those books, and the precepts they teach, are ingrained in the life of an agnostic, or an atheist, let alone someone that purports to adhere to their precepts.
 
The wisest and wealthiest human to ever walk this earth said this:


Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

And this:

Ecclesiastes 12:11The words of the wise are like cattle prods—painful but helpful. Their collected sayings are like a nail-studded stick with which a shepherd drives the sheep.

12But, my child, let me give you some further advice: Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out.

13That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty. 14 God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad.

I would imagine these words of Solomon would have more impact on your and and my ability to succeed in business than any mastermind group. I'm not saying there is no value in it at all. I'm saying that if there is any value in it, it can only come to full fruition with the foundation of faith. Just like bread, without leaven it will never be anything but flat and one dimensional, add the leaven and it grows to it's full potential.
 
This is another reason I like this site, there are guys out there that will share valuable information and there are guys out there that think they know a lot but are open to learning more once they put their ego's aside so the learning can happen and there are guys that rise above them all to share the truth that is above everything even though there are non-believers, the truth is always right. Thanks guys.
 
DJ. I apologize. My point was not to disparage your upbringing. Our rearing is something that we have no control over for the most part. If anything, I meant to motivate you. It is great to make money and be a success in something. It should not be your sole/soul defining attribute. The morals I refer to are those that surface in our interactions with other men and women. Showing equal repect to both. Knowing that we as are not self possessing in and of ourselves. Our best ambitions will fall short if God lets them. Not meaning to hijack your thread, but the title is "Think and grow Rich". I "think" that believing we are in total contol of ourself and our destiny is erroneous thinking. Just my thoughts. I know it is easy to think we are resonsible for our own success sometimes. I have done it in the past and been painfully reminded for it.
 
we will have to agree to disagree. . . .I have seen too much pain and sorrow in my short years to believe in a loving "god"

There is too much suffering in this world for me to swallow that pill.

There for I believe in my self and I believe that with determination, aspiration, and perspiration all things are possible - not through "god" but through you and the life you chose to live!
 
DJ Carroll said:
we will have to agree to disagree. . . .I have seen too much pain and sorrow in my short years to believe in a loving "god"

There is too much suffering in this world for me to swallow that pill.

There for I believe in my self and I believe that with determination, aspiration, and perspiration all things are possible - not through "god" but through you and the life you chose to live!
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DJ, sadly there are many millions who have your determination and still live a life of futility.
This earth as a planet could not possibly have come into existence due to anyone or thing but a loving creator. It is very hospitable and self-sustaining. It's not God's fault that man is ruining it. There are no principles in the Bible that when followed cause pain and sorrow and suffering.
 
danwagner said:
DJ, sadly there are many millions who have your determination and still live a life of futility.
This earth as a planet could not possibly have come into existence due to anyone or thing but a loving creator. It is very hospitable and self-sustaining. It's not God's fault that man is ruining it. There are no principles in the Bible that when followed cause pain and sorrow and suffering.
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Exactly my point ... "There for I believe in my self and I believe that with determination, aspiration, and perspiration all things are possible - not through "god" but through you and the life you chose to live! " Some people choose not to live a good life, or to follow the golden rule. My statement was gear toward this. If "god" is so powerful and such a "merciful" god, then why would he let millions of innocent children in Africa starve? Why is there such a thing as a child rapist? If he is so powerful why would he let these things happen? The answer is bc it isn't real. Religion in a whole has caused more death and despair than anything else in this world since the beginning of time. Think for yourselff guys. . . there is just too much that doesn't make sense! Hell people thought the earth was flat until Christopher Columbus came along! LOL
 
DJ Carroll said:
Exactly my point ... "There for I believe in my self and I believe that with determination, aspiration, and perspiration all things are possible - not through "god" but through you and the life you chose to live! " Some people choose not to live a good life, or to follow the golden rule. My statement was gear toward this. If "god" is so powerful and such a "merciful" god, then why would he let millions of innocent children in Africa starve? Why is there such a thing as a child rapist? If he is so powerful why would he let these things happen? The answer is bc it isn't real. Religion in a whole has caused more death and despair than anything else in this world since the beginning of time. Think for yourselff guys. . . there is just too much that doesn't make sense! Hell people thought the earth was flat until Christopher Columbus came along! LOL
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I do truley believe that religion has had a great deal to do with the attrocities that go on world wide. I truley believe that the Vatican is one of the wealthiest corporations in the world, and the pope should get off his throne and be more like Mother Theresa was. Know one alive knows for sure which one of these religions will be the right one, but were all going to find out. So believe in what you want and live your life a good man or woman, sorta like doing the right thing, even when no one is watching ya? Oh yah and Lock & Load because I'm not going to see GOD alone.
 
Daniel 4:28“All this happened to Nebuchadnezzar the king. 29“Twelve months later he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon. 30“The king reflected and said, ‘Is this not Babylon the great, which I myself have built as a royal residence by the might of my power and for the glory of my majesty?’ 31“While the word was in the king’s mouth, a voice came from heaven, saying, ‘King Nebuchadnezzar, to you it is declared: sovereignty has been removed from you, 32and you will be driven away from mankind, and your dwelling place will be with the beasts of the field. You will be given grass to eat like cattle, and seven periods of time will pass over you until you recognize that the Most High is ruler over the realm of mankind and bestows it on whomever He wishes.’ 33“Immediately the word concerning Nebuchadnezzar was fulfilled; and he was driven away from mankind and began eating grass like cattle, and his body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair had grown like eagles’ feathers and his nails like birds’ claws.

34“But at the end of that period, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High and praised and honored Him who lives forever;
For His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
And His kingdom endures from generation to generation.

35“All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
But He does according to His will in the host of heaven
And among the inhabitants of earth;
And no one can ward off His hand
Or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’

36“At that time my reason returned to me. And my majesty and splendor were restored to me for the glory of my kingdom, and my counselors and my nobles began seeking me out; so I was reestablished in my sovereignty, and surpassing greatness was added to me. 37“Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise, exalt and honor the King of heaven, for all His works are true and His ways just, and He is able to humble those who walk in pride.”
 
The age old debate about faith, religion and beliefs... without getting too deep, as I know I could write a few paragraphs about my thoughts and feelings. I'll probably get heat for this, while I respect others beliefs and guiding principles - I believe that the bible acts as a moral and ethical guide to us all, however, I can not take it as the sole guiding principle in my life.

I attended church as a child with my adoptive parents (from age 9 years old and attended until 13 years old), didn't get too deep in understanding it all - but I do recognize religion's place in people's lives and can not dispute their faith.

I would argue that an individual can lead a fulfilling life without God or Jesus - just as followers of Christ may see fault in not sharing their faith, these same people have faults too. The bible may say otherwise, but it also says a lot of other things that I think go against a sense of humanity and equality (not in a social engineering sense, but in our rights to be happy and to have the opportunity to lead a life equal to our peers).

What do I make of it all - we all are made of the same stuff, bleed the same blood and 'are born without sin'. We are brought into this world as innocent children - the end product is a result of upbringing and outside influences. While Christianity (and other religions) may offer a profound guiding ethos - it is possible to still be a good person without it.
 
... I'd like to add.

When Holly and I took our son, Innis, back to Scotland in January we had him Christened. It was a great moment that we shared with many friends and family in Holly's childhood church, and Innis was Christened by the same minister that Christened her as a child. While we do not 'practise' - we felt that it was important for him to be afforded the same opportunity to have faith in his life that we had as children.

There may be an element of hypocrisy in doing this and not being religious - but we do recognize its place in society and individual's lives.
 
"....and 'are born without sin'. We are brought into this world as innocent children..."
" Look! With error I was brought forth with birth pains,
And in sin my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5.
Unfortunately sin is passed on genetically. No sinner can produce someone sinless.
"If "god" is so powerful and such a "merciful" god, then why would he let millions of innocent children in Africa starve? Why is there such a thing as a child rapist? If he is so powerful why would he let these things happen?"
"Therefore, YOU men of heart, listen to me.
Far be it from the [true] God to act wickedly,
And the Almighty to act unjustly!" Job 34:10

"When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.”
For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone." James 1:13
God did not create robots. He gave us laws and principles which if we follow to a T, we would never abuse, hurt, or take advantage of others.But it's our choice, he doesn't force us. Still, He doesn't approve of the atrocities and pain and suffering or cause it. He allows it for now, while promising to alleviate all this in his set time (soon in my belief!) and give relief and a new start to those who have died in such a sad condition.
"..people thought the earth was flat until Christopher Columbus came along!"
"There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers......"Isaiah 40:22
"He is stretching out the north over the empty place, Hanging the earth upon nothing;" Job 26:7
True believers knew several scientific facts before the others did!

 
I'm a skeptic.

I will get on a quest and won't stop till I know as much as I can stuff in my mind about it.

Mine started with a variation of this logic:

I can sit on my couch, in my professionally built home typing.....words....concepts....ideas...on a piece of equipment that takes that information through the air and transmits it thousands of miles away for others to look at, understand, digest, and even respond.

The nearest creature to us is a chimp. He still throws his own poop and can't even build a fire to warm himself. There is no creature who can build a fire, yet I have a furnace, and even a stove and a microwave.

That is a gulf that no amount of evolution could ever jump. If that were the case then shouldn't there be some "superbirds" that build cities or a "superfish" blogging under the sea by now? I mean, aren't we all "evolving"? How did we make the leap from throwing poop to splitting the atom?

There is only one explanation for that. There is something in us that isn't in them. It is the spirit of our creator. It can't be anything else.

IF the spirit of our creator is in us, then why did he create us? What are we here for? What are we supposed to do? When does our spirit "end"?

I looked in the sky in amazement at the sheer size realizing that my realm of existence is limited to a band a few thousand feet thick surrounding a planet that is less than an electron in the scope of the universe. And after years of scientists searching the skies, it appears we are the only ones.

That is how it started. For me. And hundreds of millions of others.
 
The Cleaner said:
I do truley believe that religion has had a great deal to do with the attrocities that go on world wide. I truley believe that the Vatican is one of the wealthiest corporations in the world, and the pope should get off his throne and be more like Mother Theresa was. Know one alive knows for sure which one of these religions will be the right one, but were all going to find out. So believe in what you want and live your life a good man or woman, sorta like doing the right thing, even when no one is watching ya? Oh yah and Lock & Load because I'm not going to see GOD alone.
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PERFECT!!! +a million!
 
The Cleaner said:
I do truley believe that religion has had a great deal to do with the attrocities that go on world wide. I truley believe that the Vatican is one of the wealthiest corporations in the world, and the pope should get off his throne and be more like Mother Theresa was. Know one alive knows for sure which one of these religions will be the right one, but were all going to find out. So believe in what you want and live your life a good man or woman, sorta like doing the right thing, even when no one is watching ya? Oh yah and Lock & Load because I'm not going to see GOD alone.
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And the religion is atheism. Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Hitler etc etc etc etc. The carnage of the 20th century was incalculable Nick, and you know it wasn't wars but these governments of men. Without a higher authority there is no difference between crushing a rock and crushing a child, there is just chemistry and physics.
 
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