Some months ago, I explained that this was happening....

Jim,
I believe that Ron is referring to the fact that 99% of the contractors that visit these BBS Don't clean garage's on a regular basis. Many read your posts and transfer the rhetoric to their own industry, i.e. sidewalks, fast food, fleets, buildings, etc. Many will go out and invest big $$$ on equipment they don't need, in the hope that the regulations will be enacted in their industry, and put them in a position to cash in. I am guilty of this myself, but not directly because of your posts. I purchased recovery equipment long before you came on the scene on these BBS. For the most part, the equipment gathers dust. I now lean towards the views Tony shares with us regularly. Less meddling by government entities, is the path we should all be endorsing, and pushing for. Our mantra should be "we are part of the solution, not the problem".

I know you'll never be swayed because of your large investment in equipment and licensing. But the MAJORITY of contractors would not benefit from greater restrictions on their operations. Just because a company has good equipment, doesn't make them automatically better. Quality service with quality results will make money, no matter what.
 
Big Mike said:
Jim,
I believe that Ron is referring to the fact that 99% of the contractors that visit these BBS Don't clean garage's on a regular basis. Many read your posts and transfer the rhetoric to their own industry, i.e. sidewalks, fast food, fleets, buildings, etc. Many will go out and invest big $$$ on equipment they don't need, in the hope that the regulations will be enacted in their industry, and put them in a position to cash in. I am guilty of this myself, but not directly because of your posts. I purchased recovery equipment long before you came on the scene on these BBS. For the most part, the equipment gathers dust. I now lean towards the views Tony shares with us regularly. Less meddling by government entities, is the path we should all be endorsing, and pushing for. Our mantra should be "we are part of the solution, not the problem".

I know you'll never be swayed because of your large investment in equipment and licensing. But the MAJORITY of contractors would not benefit from greater restrictions on their operations. Just because a company has good equipment, doesn't make them automatically better. Quality service with quality results will make money, no matter what.
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+100


I fully agree that on most maintenance accounts we are only washing away what mother nature would. If its a dumpster pad then most of the time there is a grease trap inside there as well (restaurants) for sidewalks around restaurants that is what dry-wells are for however most washwater doesn't make it to them. Were not using 1,000,000 gallons of water on a Chillis or Cracker Barrel but its a different world on a 5 story parking deck. If your washing sidewalks and using only hot water and at best 10 oz. of detergent reclaiming the whole amount of wash water is hogwash in my opinion.

Fuel stations are on the same level as garages and should be filtered for the most part but not to the extent your pushing for Jim
 
mobilewashpros said:
+100


I fully agree that on most maintenance accounts we are only washing away what mother nature would. If its a dumpster pad then most of the time there is a grease trap inside there as well (restaurants) for sidewalks around restaurants that is what dry-wells are for however most washwater doesn't make it to them. Were not using 1,000,000 gallons of water on a Chillis or Cracker Barrel but its a different world on a 5 story parking deck. If your washing sidewalks and using only hot water and at best 10 oz. of detergent reclaiming the whole amount of wash water is hogwash in my opinion.

Fuel stations are on the same level as garages and should be filtered for the most part but not to the extent your pushing for Jim
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It was good talking with you in length.
 
Big Mike said:
Jim,
I believe that Ron is referring to the fact that 99% of the contractors that visit these BBS Don't clean garage's on a regular basis. Many read your posts and transfer the rhetoric to their own industry, i.e. sidewalks, fast food, fleets, buildings, etc. Many will go out and invest big $$$ on equipment they don't need, in the hope that the regulations will be enacted in their industry, and put them in a position to cash in. I am guilty of this myself, but not directly because of your posts. I purchased recovery equipment long before you came on the scene on these BBS. For the most part, the equipment gathers dust. I now lean towards the views Tony shares with us regularly. Less meddling by government entities, is the path we should all be endorsing, and pushing for. Our mantra should be "we are part of the solution, not the problem".

I know you'll never be swayed because of your large investment in equipment and licensing. But the MAJORITY of contractors would not benefit from greater restrictions on their operations. Just because a company has good equipment, doesn't make them automatically better. Quality service with quality results will make money, no matter what.
Click to expand...


Nice post, Jim still knows it.
 
I guess it's time for me to give up.

I've been saying the same exact thing for almost three years now.

I read the CWA in it's entirety back then and grasped the concept right away.

Almost three years have passed and Jim and the PWNA are still on the same course they started on. Jim states in here that he believes sidewalk wash water didn't need to be filtered, but his boss, Robert Hinderliter says in his videos that ALL washwater must be filtered if your use more than 110 degrees (which is far below the temps needed to get up gum)

We are screwed because no one is willing to fight. We are all brainwashed into believing that all the children in town will die if a little sidewalk water goes into the storm drain behind the gallons of petroleum washed off the streets by a rainfall.
 
Don't give up, sometimes it takes time for people to change, maybe these new messages will help open their eyes and help pull their heads out of their butts so they will see what is happening around the country.
 
I just realized my "pre-stroke" posts were much less pessimistic. Once I realized how quickly our lives can end I became a little frustrated as some of the stupidity and plain old corruption that permeates our industry.

Like this moron:

http://www.washonwheels.net/about/denver-pressure-washing-blog/

What kind of psycho revels in the idea that a fellow pressure washer has been caught by OSHA for violations? Especially when Osha has been known to go on witch hunts looking for anything to justify their existence?

Any good information this guy has ever put out on a blog is rendered worthless by this kind of underhanded grade school type tactics designed to convince the stupid that just because they can tattle on other companies, that somehow makes them the better choice for hiring.

Here's a hint guy, if you have to use the government to prove you are worth hiring, you aren't worth hiring! HINT: Chevy VOLT.

Colorado has some restrictions that are over and above the CWA. I am familiar with contractors who work well within the parameters of the law in Colorado and don't have to resort to tattling on other contractors to make themselves look better than other contractors who don't have to shut down in the winter and make all their money when it is warm (see their "now that it's warm, we can work" video)

Hint, failing contractor, if you don't want this type of negative posting in regards to your blog, then don't put stuff out on the internet that tries to make every other guy trying to make a living the way you claim you have look like an ass just because they got caught up by the government. Your blog could have easily been a private email to that company. It could just as easily be you. And it might be you next time. Some might even make it a quest to make sure you are under the microscope.

Stand together with your fellow contractors guys, and if they are out of line let them know and try to get them to straighten out. Bragging about the fact that you are "better" than them just makes you look petty, like this guy.
 
Did you see the link on his page - 'how to avoid lot lizards' ?
 
tomtucson said:
Did you see the link on his page - 'how to avoid lot lizards' ?
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I believe that article is for truckers.

He can blog about flying saucers for all I care, but to promote your own business by trying to cast everyone else in the same industry in a bad or even illegal light is irresponsible and the sign of someone whose work alone isn't of a high enough quality to entice repeat customers.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
If he did an article on "How to attract better lot lizards with more teeth" he would get more hits.
 
I wouldn't normally call out a contractor like this without at least talking to him first. But he's already been approached on here about putting out videos that attempt to make the entire industry (but him) look like buffoons.

He knows exactly what he's doing and it's not just an honest mistake.

He can't be stopped, but everytime he does one I'm going to use the power of the internet to let people know that most contractors who have to resort to that kind of sales technique aren't doing good enough work or are charging too much to survive any other way but by scare tactics.
 
Are we talking about the round mound of confound in San Francisco, or the WoW guy?
 
Scott Stone said:
Are we talking about the round mound of confound in San Francisco, or the WoW guy?
Click to expand...

It's the wow guy.

It's the equivalent of me putting up a blog about how great my wife is compared to all the skank ho's you guys are married to.

See how offensive that is?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
Hey Ron, I am interested in knowing more about the BMPs that were developed that were impossible to comply with, and what types of specific BMP requirements is the PWI working to prevent in future regulations. Thanks!
 
Ryan.Hebrink said:
Hey Ron, I am interested in knowing more about the BMPs that were developed that were impossible to comply with, and what types of specific BMP requirements is the PWI working to prevent in future regulations. Thanks!
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Ryan we are working at the UAMCC with a Standards and practice committee. www.uamcc.org

We want to work with professional like yourself throughout the country who seek help to build responsible compliance. Ryan we met in houston?

Please call me if you need more details please 4805225227
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Ryan we are working at the UAMCC with a Standards and practice committee. www.uamcc.org

We want to work with professional like yourself throughout the country who seek help to build responsible compliance. Ryan we met in houston?

Please call me if you need more details please 4805225227
Click to expand...

This sounds like a very good idea.

Thanks for what you guys are doing over at the uamcc.
 
Tony Shelton said:
I wouldn't normally call out a contractor like this without at least talking to him first. But he's already been approached on here about putting out videos that attempt to make the entire industry (but him) look like buffoons.
Click to expand...

Worse than that....his article reads more like a plaintiffs/prosecutors case summery. He even numbers the exhibits. If I were the PM or the restaurant owner, I'd be livid.
 
Ryan, we are working towards a common sense approach to the problem.

I am in the process or touring a number or West Coast cities and will be making a report of some of my findings once I'm done.

We provide a needed service for our communities. We provide a safe and clean environment fit for human habitation. Cleaning of sidewalks, plazas, and other areas where we walk, sit or stop is driven by economics.

There are two economic forces that affect this type of cleaning. The first force is just regular market forces. For example, Chinatown is one of the filthiest areas of San Francisco. Why? Because the mindset is that their customers don't care enough about clean sidewalks to justify the expense of doing anymore than rinsing them down when the owner of the shop slips and falls on his butt. The most filthy area I could find in San Francisco was the Tenderloin district where vomit, feces, urine and every other thing you can imagine was prevalent. Owners of shops and hotels there couldn't care less because the market doesn't justify spending one red cent to keep things sanitary.

The second economic force that affects this type of cleaning is the government. In the restaurant industry the government puts fear in the pocketbooks of owners who don't keep things clean and will shut them down if the inside of their restaurants don't meet standards. On the opposite end of the spectrum restaurants are being told that if they make a mistake with their washwater when cleaning their sidewalks they can be fined thousands of dollars. This economic force creates an environment where buildup occurs and makes unsanitary and many times unsafe circumstances.

This is the direct result of municipalities micromanaging pollution sources to the point where the micromanagment is more detrimental than the miniscule contamination that "may" occur.

This is exacerbated by manufacturers of vacuum and filtration systems who's success depends on their ability to frighten public servants like yourself and business owners alike into believing that their way is the only way to "save the children". They have a vested interest in lobbying for the use of their products. Contractors who have bought systems from these manufacturers also need to justify the thousands of dollars they have spent on the equipment and go around lobbying for more restrictions to justify the purchase rather than just realize they made a big mistake in buying equipment that cannot ever be economically feasible to operate especially in an economy such as this. If one wants proof of this all they have to do is look around Houston as I did last year and witness the neglected algae encrusted concrete around many retail establishments that cannot afford to pay "thousands" (as quoted by one Northern California contractor) per month to clean the dumpster behind a fast food restaurant.

These traitors to our own industry are a big part of the problem. They put their own personal interest ahead of the interest of the general public. To them it is preferable to charge a fortune to the 1 out of 10 high end restaurants that can afford to clean rather than allow the market to bring prices into a range where all restaurants and other retail establishments can afford to remain clean.

The answer is economical cleaning that can be completed frequently enough to allow for the use of zero or minimal soaps. It takes hot water to clean things such as soda spills, ketchup, etc. This hot water can reach ambient temperature in as little a distance as 20 ft from the source. The heat of the water is of no consequence by the time it reaches the curb.

BMP's are being proposed around the country by an organization that allows for filtered water from sidewalk cleaning to enter the storm drain "unless" hot water is used. The author of the BMP argues that "hot" water emulsifies better than cold water and therefore the water must be vacuumed when hot water is used. This author is the former owner of a company that sells vacuum and recovery equipment and has now passed it on to his son. He knows that hot water is a requirement for most commercial cleaning and a requirement to vacuum up only "hot" water is effectively a requirement to vacuum up ALL water used in commercial concrete cleaning. I'll allow you to draw your own conclusions as to what, if any impact the ownership of a company that sells the very equipment required to comply with the BMP's had on the final draft of them.

I recently had the privilege of visiting one of the cleanest downtown city areas I have ever visited. The city is Seattle. Even the alleys were clean as a whistle. There was very little gum on the streets if you can believe that. What is the difference? Do the business owners there clean more often? Are they spending a fortune on cleaning since everyone knows the drains go into the Puget Sound and must be vacuumed? I was curious so I asked some business owners. ...... The answer may surprise you. They don't clean much at all. The rain washes it away on a regular basis. (must be hot rain.lol) No, the rain isn't hot, it is FREQUENT!!!!! That is the difference. And Puget Sound is not overflowing with sludge from the streets. As a matter of fact the sound is well within limits and is very clean.

You might be surprised how little water it takes to clean plazas and entrances. At 6 gallons per minute a dirty Walg#een's entrance can be cleaned using less water than a child would use to take a bath. Pressure cleaning is a very efficient method of cleaning. Vacuuming more than triples the cost and dumps more and more exhaust into the environment because it requires a second or third small engine to run it. Filters made out of man made materials must be disposed of on a regular basis. The risk of traveling around with CONCENTRATED waste on a trailer behind the cleaning truck because of requirements to remove it from the property invite even more lawsuits and cross contamination.

The common sense answer to this is not more restrictions on contractors and business owners. The answer lies in evaluating the risks vs the advantages of cleaning frequently and at less cost. The simplest way to accomplish this is to allow exemptions for frequent cleanings that use less than a reasonably set amount of water per day.

Contractors have very good natural filtration media that soaks up oils and filters other contaminants through gravity filtration that requires zero in gas powered equipment and keeps the cost down so that every business owner can afford to keep their storefronts clean. Chasing down contractors and businesses to fine for the minor amounts of water that gets into the storm drain system through cleaning is the equivalent of going after RC plane hobbyists to cure the smog problem in LA.

Furthermore, contract cleaners are not deep pockets. Municipalities are wasting their time trying to fine these small operations if their intent is to increase revenue. If that is the case a more reliable source of income would be go after the stores who DON'T clean on a regular enough basis to avoid using soaps to clean.
 
My computer messed up and I couldn't finish my post.

We need to work towards a common goal of keeping the environment around us clean while doing what is economically feasible to keep water sources clean using Best management practices.....and common sense.

I am not representing anyone here. I clean condenser coils and air filters. The proposed BMP's have little to no effect on my business whatsoever. My son, Chris, does clean concrete. If the current trend towards attacking plaza cleaning contractors as "polluters" continues, I will welcome him into my realm and we will avoid all this micromanagement. In other words, I really don't have a dog in this fight. Unless that dog is the desire to keep honest and hard working contractors in business.

I am not speaking for any org or forum or anyone else other than myself. If anyone wishes to join me in my quest to keep our industry thriving I welcome any allies.

Thank you.
 
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