Pwna refund response!
- Thread starter Matthew Norman
- Start date
Christopher
Moderator
Anyone read the new Cleaner Times?
Not sure if the PWN* paid for all that advertising or if the cleaner times just wanted to be their cheerleader with all the stuff that is in there. Wow.
Not sure if the PWN* paid for all that advertising or if the cleaner times just wanted to be their cheerleader with all the stuff that is in there. Wow.
Call it pressure washing resource , copy exactly what Chris did.
I actually thought you would have by now!
Ron Musgraves text me for
questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute.com
Thad
WCR Sales & Founder PWRA
Clean County PW
Active member
What Month are we talking about Chris? As much as the Cleaner times does I wish they can do a little more. Thats probably just me.
Matthew Norman
Moderator
I thought the same thing Chris but I think it's the bitterness I get every-time I see the PWN* logo.
Christopher
Moderator
In the magazine the PWN* says that they have been helping the industry for the past 20 years.
I DON'T SEE HOW THEY HAVE HELPED ANYTHING BUT SHOP BMP'S TO CITIES OUT THERE MAKING OUR JOBS HARDER AND CALLING US POLLUTERS.
I could be wrong, please tell me if I am.
I would like to see a list of EXACTLY HOW THEY HAVE HELPED THE INDUSTRY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS. Not general comments, statements or heresay but actual things they can take credit for that they did by themself, not what contractors did, started or notified them about so they can jump in the last minute and try to claim full credit for what eventually happened with or without them.
I know I am not the only person that would like to see what this list consists of, lets see a list of their accomplishments for the past 20 years of how they have helped the contractors out there. This will be interesting if they even bother to respond.
I DON'T SEE HOW THEY HAVE HELPED ANYTHING BUT SHOP BMP'S TO CITIES OUT THERE MAKING OUR JOBS HARDER AND CALLING US POLLUTERS.
I could be wrong, please tell me if I am.
I would like to see a list of EXACTLY HOW THEY HAVE HELPED THE INDUSTRY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS. Not general comments, statements or heresay but actual things they can take credit for that they did by themself, not what contractors did, started or notified them about so they can jump in the last minute and try to claim full credit for what eventually happened with or without them.
I know I am not the only person that would like to see what this list consists of, lets see a list of their accomplishments for the past 20 years of how they have helped the contractors out there. This will be interesting if they even bother to respond.
Clean County PW
Active member
I'll give you one... I could give you 10 but I'm out of the blame game... So here's the one.. 20 years ago--They "Organized".. 20 years later there still "Organized". That alone is a huge accomplishment... You want 9 more Chris?? Hopefully you get what your looking for but I doubt it since most of there members aren't on the bulletin boards much except for maybe reading a few threads.
Hey Chris let me ask you something. You have alot of close friends you support from the UAMCC. I support Ron and I know you do also.. Out of curiosity I am a member with the UAMCC.. are you?
John, the PWNA has maybe been around 13 out of the Last 20..
Christopher
Moderator
After the fiasco, scams, bad leadership, Bod members investigating members, and other nonsense in both the orgs in the past few years, I am currently not a member in either.
I had won a membership in the pwna but after numerous calls and messages left besides the emails not returned, I decided not to renew with the pwna since they could not respond to my calls and emails. I know they don't have but a secretary but when she is passing messages and phone calls and they are not returned to me then that is sending a very clear message about the leadership, a leadership that is not leading by example, not leading down a good path and letting things happen either by ignorance or by will (shopping bmp's to cities after it was stated and told to me that the bmp's would not be shopped to cities) so either way it happened, and is probably still happening, maybe even out there in arizona for all we know. That to me along with a lot of other examples is not true leadership and it letting a cancer to develop again that will cause problems down the road, probably another org embarassment or worse probably if it is not stopped.
If you can name some things that they have helped the industry, please list them John, I would really like to know.
I don't call "organizing" the industry an accomplishment as they are currently dividing the industry with the things that they are letting happen like the shopping bmp's that they stated and told me that would not happen, the "secret" meeting in arizona with city officials that was not told to to the locals so they could attend, it was not told to the members so they could go out there if they wanted to and why would bod members meet "secretly" with city officials if it has to do with this industry?
The last time I checked, you, myself, Ron, and most others on these bbs's are members of this industry, not necessarily of those orgs but members of this industry and when people out there are acting like they are representing this industry, I besides probably hundreds of others in this industry would like to know, some of us would like to attend to see what is going on, hear what is being said and participate if possible.
It is kind of like a meeting there in New York, I am sure you would like to attend to give your input, opinions and help out if possible but when it happened a couple of weeks ago without you knowing about it, you might have wanted to attend if you knew about it.
There are many ways to look at this situation but back to the list, I would like to see accomplishments, you don't have to single-handedly make up a list John, there are plenty of other members out there that can handle this, I know you are busy out there working.
Again, I don't call what they are doing "organizing", some might but I think if there was a poll started here on pwi (not other bbs sites as there are the biases there, mindless cheerleaders that will not look at corruption when it is staring them at the face and will always take org sides no matter what as they have not only drank the coolaid but taken it in from both ends and still think that there is nothing wrong out there since they have their heads in the sand) I think that you will see that there are a lot of people that will give unbiased opinions here and give their true feelings where other sites the threads will be watered-down, posts changed, deleted, etc.... instead of good, honest opinions and feelings being let out there.
Not trying to argue here, just would like to see list of what the pwn* has done for the industry over the past 20 years like they say they have helped.
I personally think that these bbs's sites have done many, many, many times more for the industry for contractors and vendors than the pwn* has done in the past years, sites like Dave's board, the old Delco bbs, PWN, PWI, TGS, PressureTek, Steve Rowletts site, and there are probably a few others that I cannot remember right now but they have helped hundreds if not thousands of contractors in many, many, many ways like networking, helping with chemicals, equipment, contractors helping others and more!
These sites have taught a lot of things, talked about events all around the country, helped contractors network with others all around the country, posted events that were short day long events up to several day long events, gave vendors the opportunity to show their equipment, do demonstrations in front of crowds of contractors, do demonstrations of chemicals of how they work, how to use them safely, etc....
There are so many things these sites have done for the contractors, that list is huge compared to what the pwn* is claiming that they have helped contractors for 20 years but I would like to see what the list is for the pwn* as they claim to be helping contractors for 20 years, I would like to see a list of how they have helped contractors.
One or two or even 5 things would not be a list to be proud of for helping contractors for 20 years, I would expect a huge list like over 100 things, that comes out to only about 5 things a year which is not asking a lot for an org that says they have been helping the industry for 20 years.
I had won a membership in the pwna but after numerous calls and messages left besides the emails not returned, I decided not to renew with the pwna since they could not respond to my calls and emails. I know they don't have but a secretary but when she is passing messages and phone calls and they are not returned to me then that is sending a very clear message about the leadership, a leadership that is not leading by example, not leading down a good path and letting things happen either by ignorance or by will (shopping bmp's to cities after it was stated and told to me that the bmp's would not be shopped to cities) so either way it happened, and is probably still happening, maybe even out there in arizona for all we know. That to me along with a lot of other examples is not true leadership and it letting a cancer to develop again that will cause problems down the road, probably another org embarassment or worse probably if it is not stopped.
If you can name some things that they have helped the industry, please list them John, I would really like to know.
I don't call "organizing" the industry an accomplishment as they are currently dividing the industry with the things that they are letting happen like the shopping bmp's that they stated and told me that would not happen, the "secret" meeting in arizona with city officials that was not told to to the locals so they could attend, it was not told to the members so they could go out there if they wanted to and why would bod members meet "secretly" with city officials if it has to do with this industry?
The last time I checked, you, myself, Ron, and most others on these bbs's are members of this industry, not necessarily of those orgs but members of this industry and when people out there are acting like they are representing this industry, I besides probably hundreds of others in this industry would like to know, some of us would like to attend to see what is going on, hear what is being said and participate if possible.
It is kind of like a meeting there in New York, I am sure you would like to attend to give your input, opinions and help out if possible but when it happened a couple of weeks ago without you knowing about it, you might have wanted to attend if you knew about it.
There are many ways to look at this situation but back to the list, I would like to see accomplishments, you don't have to single-handedly make up a list John, there are plenty of other members out there that can handle this, I know you are busy out there working.
Again, I don't call what they are doing "organizing", some might but I think if there was a poll started here on pwi (not other bbs sites as there are the biases there, mindless cheerleaders that will not look at corruption when it is staring them at the face and will always take org sides no matter what as they have not only drank the coolaid but taken it in from both ends and still think that there is nothing wrong out there since they have their heads in the sand) I think that you will see that there are a lot of people that will give unbiased opinions here and give their true feelings where other sites the threads will be watered-down, posts changed, deleted, etc.... instead of good, honest opinions and feelings being let out there.
Not trying to argue here, just would like to see list of what the pwn* has done for the industry over the past 20 years like they say they have helped.
I personally think that these bbs's sites have done many, many, many times more for the industry for contractors and vendors than the pwn* has done in the past years, sites like Dave's board, the old Delco bbs, PWN, PWI, TGS, PressureTek, Steve Rowletts site, and there are probably a few others that I cannot remember right now but they have helped hundreds if not thousands of contractors in many, many, many ways like networking, helping with chemicals, equipment, contractors helping others and more!
These sites have taught a lot of things, talked about events all around the country, helped contractors network with others all around the country, posted events that were short day long events up to several day long events, gave vendors the opportunity to show their equipment, do demonstrations in front of crowds of contractors, do demonstrations of chemicals of how they work, how to use them safely, etc....
There are so many things these sites have done for the contractors, that list is huge compared to what the pwn* is claiming that they have helped contractors for 20 years but I would like to see what the list is for the pwn* as they claim to be helping contractors for 20 years, I would like to see a list of how they have helped contractors.
One or two or even 5 things would not be a list to be proud of for helping contractors for 20 years, I would expect a huge list like over 100 things, that comes out to only about 5 things a year which is not asking a lot for an org that says they have been helping the industry for 20 years.
Really no argument , unless giving a few people a Plaque counts after 20 years.
I'm sorry John, I still can'y let go that was the main focus at our national Convention.
Here's why I say this, we have people in Houston being shut down un fairly. My org who I almost single handedly pumped money into does about nothing.
You can say I have a large head all you want, the truth the truth. No one wishes the PWNA ill will, we are just sick of the BS.
I'm sorry John, I still can'y let go that was the main focus at our national Convention.
Here's why I say this, we have people in Houston being shut down un fairly. My org who I almost single handedly pumped money into does about nothing.
You can say I have a large head all you want, the truth the truth. No one wishes the PWNA ill will, we are just sick of the BS.
Clean County PW
Active member
These threads will go down hill in no time at all. So I'll list the facts that I know them.
1-Robert Hinderliter along with his son Michael, Joseph Walters, and a few others are founding members. Larry Hinkley might also be a founding member.
2-Since this org was originally a "For Profit org" as it looks like the UAMCC may have been also, Robert had the vision to see that he should step away and also let the PWNA become a "Not for Profit". Now the question is when was it done officially. There are records of the PWNA filing earlier but the one that sticks out was around 2005 when Michael Beudry the ED at the time filed correctly for the PWNA to become a non profit which they do there taxes as such as there BOD minutes as explained in "Roberts Rule of order"
3-The PWNA was way ahead of there time by doing certification classes so there members can market that. Those certification classes where backed by the most popular Powerwashing organization the PWNA as they are today. There are no fly by niters in there.
4-The Distributors that were PWNA members discounted there fellow PWNA members anywhere from 5-20% at times such as going to a convention.
6-The PWNA was the first org. in this industry to hold 2 conventions a year before 9-11 hit.
7-Robert Hinderliter stepped it up in Fort Worth and was able to get the Powers to be there to listen to him when it came to cosmetic powerwashers. This was a huge step in the national history of Power washing. Just to get them to listen and not think the Powerwashers are nothing but wingnuts was huge. Probably the biggest accomplish yet that's been recorded. What others have to do before they mock the man is to find out why he did what he did... and he did it for us back then.
8- the PWNA has been in full operation for 20yrs now with some years pretty outstanding and some years like in the 2008-2009 they were the lame years but never the less they've been in business all those years without stoppage.
9-Henry Bockman created the Clean Accross America Campaign that was a huge hit and became a nationally known event. If you ever call Henry he will tell you that some others really helped him to reach this hight goal and most of those members where his fellow PWNA members,
10-I have IMHO the nations strongest committee in this industry with strong characters and all of them are innovators. Along with them where going to bring to the table a tremendous benefit to the PWNA members and also to the less fortunate ones who needed some type of free or low cost services that Impacted them greatly. So that one is a huge benefit all the way around.
I'm laying the ground work there but these guys will be the ones who make it work. If you look at the file I'm going to attached here you can see that I am helping my brother-in-law with a charity to fight ALS. You see Linda's name on it amongst others. This is at a bar right by my house and right up my allery.. So I will carry on some of the traditions that the PWNA has taught me.
Most of the stuff I listed about are benefits but I expect them to get all knocked down here on PWI because instead of being civil about it the finger pointing is going to come from others here.
There are more benefitis the PWNA has done of its members over the years such as all of us having a chance to get the TREX deck work from there class action lawsuit.
Lastly if you really can stand org's why bother to criticize all the time when you do nothing Chris. You keep saying how great Ron is, Doug ect but yet you wont join them to show your support. Monday night quarterbacking from the nose bleeds seats is not going to get the job done. So since your obviosly not a PWNA fan because you cant even spell them on the net like the PWN* one
1-Robert Hinderliter along with his son Michael, Joseph Walters, and a few others are founding members. Larry Hinkley might also be a founding member.
2-Since this org was originally a "For Profit org" as it looks like the UAMCC may have been also, Robert had the vision to see that he should step away and also let the PWNA become a "Not for Profit". Now the question is when was it done officially. There are records of the PWNA filing earlier but the one that sticks out was around 2005 when Michael Beudry the ED at the time filed correctly for the PWNA to become a non profit which they do there taxes as such as there BOD minutes as explained in "Roberts Rule of order"
3-The PWNA was way ahead of there time by doing certification classes so there members can market that. Those certification classes where backed by the most popular Powerwashing organization the PWNA as they are today. There are no fly by niters in there.
4-The Distributors that were PWNA members discounted there fellow PWNA members anywhere from 5-20% at times such as going to a convention.
6-The PWNA was the first org. in this industry to hold 2 conventions a year before 9-11 hit.
7-Robert Hinderliter stepped it up in Fort Worth and was able to get the Powers to be there to listen to him when it came to cosmetic powerwashers. This was a huge step in the national history of Power washing. Just to get them to listen and not think the Powerwashers are nothing but wingnuts was huge. Probably the biggest accomplish yet that's been recorded. What others have to do before they mock the man is to find out why he did what he did... and he did it for us back then.
8- the PWNA has been in full operation for 20yrs now with some years pretty outstanding and some years like in the 2008-2009 they were the lame years but never the less they've been in business all those years without stoppage.
9-Henry Bockman created the Clean Accross America Campaign that was a huge hit and became a nationally known event. If you ever call Henry he will tell you that some others really helped him to reach this hight goal and most of those members where his fellow PWNA members,
10-I have IMHO the nations strongest committee in this industry with strong characters and all of them are innovators. Along with them where going to bring to the table a tremendous benefit to the PWNA members and also to the less fortunate ones who needed some type of free or low cost services that Impacted them greatly. So that one is a huge benefit all the way around.
I'm laying the ground work there but these guys will be the ones who make it work. If you look at the file I'm going to attached here you can see that I am helping my brother-in-law with a charity to fight ALS. You see Linda's name on it amongst others. This is at a bar right by my house and right up my allery.. So I will carry on some of the traditions that the PWNA has taught me.
Most of the stuff I listed about are benefits but I expect them to get all knocked down here on PWI because instead of being civil about it the finger pointing is going to come from others here.
There are more benefitis the PWNA has done of its members over the years such as all of us having a chance to get the TREX deck work from there class action lawsuit.
Lastly if you really can stand org's why bother to criticize all the time when you do nothing Chris. You keep saying how great Ron is, Doug ect but yet you wont join them to show your support. Monday night quarterbacking from the nose bleeds seats is not going to get the job done. So since your obviosly not a PWNA fan because you cant even spell them on the net like the PWN* one
The PWNA prior to this year couldn't tell you who the members where much less who was or is certified. Its embarrassing, I know I just started fixing another Model org the hinder liters created.
Don't lie john, you know its true. You had no clue who was certified, much less the members.
John you didn't know I was a Distributor member for years, yes John the Truth comes out. Why you never seen me listed as a regular member is I was listed as Pressure Washing Institute. My business was never a Member until they gave me a membership.
Please do not attempt to start bashing the PWNA into the ground again John, I'm thur with the LIES here.
Its been around John, tell us what we don't know.
Don't lie john, you know its true. You had no clue who was certified, much less the members.
John you didn't know I was a Distributor member for years, yes John the Truth comes out. Why you never seen me listed as a regular member is I was listed as Pressure Washing Institute. My business was never a Member until they gave me a membership.
Please do not attempt to start bashing the PWNA into the ground again John, I'm thur with the LIES here.
Its been around John, tell us what we don't know.
Henry Was Great Thats why he also hold the most esteemed award in the industry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxb3DADV7Kg
Here's the Other guy who got the Award http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CSqILuo4mw
You will get it Next year for Dead Ball players Photos
Christopher
Moderator
John, go and re-read what I posted up in #27, here it is again:
I would like to see a list of EXACTLY HOW THEY HAVE HELPED THE INDUSTRY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS. Not general comments, statements or heresay but actual things they can take credit for that they did by themself, not what contractors did, started or notified them about so they can jump in the last minute and try to claim full credit for what eventually happened with or without them.
I know I am not the only person that would like to see what this list consists of, lets see a list of their accomplishments for the past 20 years of how they have helped the contractors out there. This will be interesting if they even bother to respond.
What you posted are not things that the PWN* (I do this because I am not out promoting the org, if I was one of their mindless cheerleaders then I would add the last letter) has done for the industry for the most part.
#1 a group of people formed an org, that is not helping the industry.
#2 talking about the orgs is not the pwn* helping the industry, that is just talking about them, no benefit to contractors
#3 certification classes for marketing your business, I guess that one would help some businesses out there if customers cared, ok, 1 thing so far.
#4 a discount of 5% to 20% is ok, at the 2004 event in Dallas, I asked about 6 vendors if they offered a discount to pwn* members and they told me that at that time there are no discounts, but there are some small discounts for the convention. I asked about when the convention is over will the pwn* members get a discount and they told me to call them later on to discuss this. I am guessing that they did not want to say anything with other people there present. It is a shame, I did buy a lot of window cleaning stuff as they gave me a big discount right then and there, I guess their org really knows how to treat people.
#5 no number 5, you jumped to #6
#6 2 conventions a year before 9/11, that is possible but why only 1 convention in the past many years? I guess that one will do, I guess. There are many people and vendors that put on events for anyone that will travel to the event so nothing really special there, any given year there are at least 4 to 10 events all around the country but not by orgs, by vendors and people wanting to help contractors.
#7 finally something that they can take credit for doing but it was mostly robert, not the pwn* so it could go either way as it directly benefitted his company
#8 talking about how the pwn* is around for 20 years is not something, just talking about them, not mentioning something that they did to help the industry, just rambling
#9 Henry Bockman, great idea with the clean across america.....remember....I am asking what the pwn*, not what anyone else did and the org helped them, only what the org has done to help the contractors out there. This is Henry's idea and whether the pwn* helped or not does not matter, it was Henry's idea so this does not count as something that the PWN* came up with or their idea, it was Henry's. try again
#10 this is just more talking about the org, not mentioning something that they have done to help the industry
Re-read what I was looking for, things that the org has done to help the industry, not just blanket statements, not generalizations, not heresay, and mostly no b.s., just the provable facts that they have done to help the industry as they are out there promoting that they are doing, I would like to see a list of what they have done.
You have tried John and thanks for trying.
I would like to see someone else in the org try to list things, maybe there are some things out there that the org did to help the industry in the past 20 years as this list so far is but a few things, not a lot considering it has taken 20 years to do that little bit.
Sure, conventions are hard to schedule, takes time and effort for the many volunteers, takes time out of everyone's day to help out and I see and understand that.
I would have been impressed if they did 1/20 the work that Ron did to help out the city of Houston. Why didn't the pwn* want to help out there instead of trying to shop them bmp's?
Houston is one of the largest cities in America, I did not say the largest, I said one of the largest and that would have really been impressive if the org had gone there to help out, talk to city officials, get things going in the right direction and help contractors get back to work instead of being scared of being sued for possibly doing something wrong. Turns out that Ron M. did a lot, helped the city officials to see how things are, how they should be and how to get things to be normal. This should have been done by the org but the members in the org were more concerned with how to talk to them about bmp's and calling us contractors polluters, that is not a benefit for contractors no matter how closed your eyes are and if your ears are closed also, that is not helping contractors get back to work.
I am deeply disappointed with the org for not helping with the city of Houston, they could have been a hero but instead they just hid and did nothing but try to talk about bmp's and try to videotape the events.
I was there for one of those meetings and saw in person how backwards they were, I saw how the vacuum trucks were there to earn off the backs of contractors and I saw how some back-room deals were being made, not good in my eyes. What a shame!
In the end, it was a guy from across the country to help out with the city of Houston, not even a person living in Texas but a guy from Arizona to get the city of Houston back onto track and doing this all out of his pocket with no org helping him, he did it with his own money and sources. Very sad that the org would hot help out there at all.
It would be nice for the Cleaner Times to do an article on how Ron M. helped out the city of Houston so the contractors there could get back to work, how he did it without the help of any org and how the org would not do anything to help the situation. This would be a great article, especially to give out to the contractors in the city of Houston because most of them will never know the man that helped them out in their time of need.
If I did not want to support Doug or Ron, I would not have driven 4 hours each way to Houston and attend one of the meetings that the city had. I don't live in Houston but try to support them. I do have an account about 40 minutes outside of houston so in a way things that affect Houston can affect me in a way.
You have done a lot of great things John and I am not trying to take anything away from you, I just want to see how the pwn* justifies saying that they have helped the industry for 20 years, you don't have to defend them or stick up for them, nobody is holding you responsible for them, their actions or what they say in magazines but I would like to know more of how they have "helped the industry" for 20 years.
If a contractor here in Texas was in the same situation as they were in Houston, I would try to support them and help them in any way that I could, just like I know you would John there where you live, we all would help out our friends and contractors, we are those kind of people, we try to get along and help each other.
I would like to see a list of EXACTLY HOW THEY HAVE HELPED THE INDUSTRY FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS. Not general comments, statements or heresay but actual things they can take credit for that they did by themself, not what contractors did, started or notified them about so they can jump in the last minute and try to claim full credit for what eventually happened with or without them.
I know I am not the only person that would like to see what this list consists of, lets see a list of their accomplishments for the past 20 years of how they have helped the contractors out there. This will be interesting if they even bother to respond.
What you posted are not things that the PWN* (I do this because I am not out promoting the org, if I was one of their mindless cheerleaders then I would add the last letter) has done for the industry for the most part.
#1 a group of people formed an org, that is not helping the industry.
#2 talking about the orgs is not the pwn* helping the industry, that is just talking about them, no benefit to contractors
#3 certification classes for marketing your business, I guess that one would help some businesses out there if customers cared, ok, 1 thing so far.
#4 a discount of 5% to 20% is ok, at the 2004 event in Dallas, I asked about 6 vendors if they offered a discount to pwn* members and they told me that at that time there are no discounts, but there are some small discounts for the convention. I asked about when the convention is over will the pwn* members get a discount and they told me to call them later on to discuss this. I am guessing that they did not want to say anything with other people there present. It is a shame, I did buy a lot of window cleaning stuff as they gave me a big discount right then and there, I guess their org really knows how to treat people.
#5 no number 5, you jumped to #6
#6 2 conventions a year before 9/11, that is possible but why only 1 convention in the past many years? I guess that one will do, I guess. There are many people and vendors that put on events for anyone that will travel to the event so nothing really special there, any given year there are at least 4 to 10 events all around the country but not by orgs, by vendors and people wanting to help contractors.
#7 finally something that they can take credit for doing but it was mostly robert, not the pwn* so it could go either way as it directly benefitted his company
#8 talking about how the pwn* is around for 20 years is not something, just talking about them, not mentioning something that they did to help the industry, just rambling
#9 Henry Bockman, great idea with the clean across america.....remember....I am asking what the pwn*, not what anyone else did and the org helped them, only what the org has done to help the contractors out there. This is Henry's idea and whether the pwn* helped or not does not matter, it was Henry's idea so this does not count as something that the PWN* came up with or their idea, it was Henry's. try again
#10 this is just more talking about the org, not mentioning something that they have done to help the industry
Re-read what I was looking for, things that the org has done to help the industry, not just blanket statements, not generalizations, not heresay, and mostly no b.s., just the provable facts that they have done to help the industry as they are out there promoting that they are doing, I would like to see a list of what they have done.
You have tried John and thanks for trying.
I would like to see someone else in the org try to list things, maybe there are some things out there that the org did to help the industry in the past 20 years as this list so far is but a few things, not a lot considering it has taken 20 years to do that little bit.
Sure, conventions are hard to schedule, takes time and effort for the many volunteers, takes time out of everyone's day to help out and I see and understand that.
I would have been impressed if they did 1/20 the work that Ron did to help out the city of Houston. Why didn't the pwn* want to help out there instead of trying to shop them bmp's?
Houston is one of the largest cities in America, I did not say the largest, I said one of the largest and that would have really been impressive if the org had gone there to help out, talk to city officials, get things going in the right direction and help contractors get back to work instead of being scared of being sued for possibly doing something wrong. Turns out that Ron M. did a lot, helped the city officials to see how things are, how they should be and how to get things to be normal. This should have been done by the org but the members in the org were more concerned with how to talk to them about bmp's and calling us contractors polluters, that is not a benefit for contractors no matter how closed your eyes are and if your ears are closed also, that is not helping contractors get back to work.
I am deeply disappointed with the org for not helping with the city of Houston, they could have been a hero but instead they just hid and did nothing but try to talk about bmp's and try to videotape the events.
I was there for one of those meetings and saw in person how backwards they were, I saw how the vacuum trucks were there to earn off the backs of contractors and I saw how some back-room deals were being made, not good in my eyes. What a shame!
In the end, it was a guy from across the country to help out with the city of Houston, not even a person living in Texas but a guy from Arizona to get the city of Houston back onto track and doing this all out of his pocket with no org helping him, he did it with his own money and sources. Very sad that the org would hot help out there at all.
It would be nice for the Cleaner Times to do an article on how Ron M. helped out the city of Houston so the contractors there could get back to work, how he did it without the help of any org and how the org would not do anything to help the situation. This would be a great article, especially to give out to the contractors in the city of Houston because most of them will never know the man that helped them out in their time of need.
If I did not want to support Doug or Ron, I would not have driven 4 hours each way to Houston and attend one of the meetings that the city had. I don't live in Houston but try to support them. I do have an account about 40 minutes outside of houston so in a way things that affect Houston can affect me in a way.
You have done a lot of great things John and I am not trying to take anything away from you, I just want to see how the pwn* justifies saying that they have helped the industry for 20 years, you don't have to defend them or stick up for them, nobody is holding you responsible for them, their actions or what they say in magazines but I would like to know more of how they have "helped the industry" for 20 years.
If a contractor here in Texas was in the same situation as they were in Houston, I would try to support them and help them in any way that I could, just like I know you would John there where you live, we all would help out our friends and contractors, we are those kind of people, we try to get along and help each other.
Christopher
Moderator
I was there in Tampa, we raised a lot of money for the make a wish foundation, it was a great time, my son had some fun and I learned some good things.
Clean County PW
Active member
First off Chris where friends so if this turns ugly because they always do we'll call it a day or at least I will and go back to discussing vacs and things with you that are always interesting.
First off yea I could have skipped #5 because I was typing pretty fast. I could give you a few more examples. You can't discredit the Clean Across America campaing because it wasnt the PWNA's idea... That doesn't work. I was on the board of directors when Henry came in with that. Don't forget the PWNA is a bunch of contractors and distributors and we all make up the "Whole" so Henry was PWNA just like I was and so on and so forth.
The PWNA loved Henry's idea and it became the PWNA's Clean Across America because Henry gave them that one.
Me and Ron are buds to but Ron has a way of not telling the whole truth.. Jean Hendricks came up with the idea of naming the awards in the PWNA if I remember correctly as the Robert Hinderliter and the Joseph Walters awards for best conctactor and the best distributor. So that award has only been around for 8-9yrs... Of the many things that Ron doesnt know and I'll tell you a couple right here is that Everett Abrams won one of those awards. So there goes Rons theory that no one besides RON MUSGRAVES and Henry won it.
So there are two things that Ron is inaccuratly reporting. Here's another--- Yes we knew plenty of guys who were certified. Brian Penney was certified in wood restoration as was Matt Johnson, Myself, Tony Szabo and many many others. So we knew who was. Ron is incorrect there.
The Houston thing if you look back on that Chris, Michael Hinderliter showed the videos he took there and that was extremely helpful for many of us that werent there. That SGT.(Hitting a blank on his name was it SGT Walsh??? I have to look it up) said right on the Video to support your Orgs. amonst other things and some guys came out of there clobbering the industry orgs.
If you also remember last year there were a certain few here who asked only contractors go to Houston with them. There doing that again where there also asking only contractors appear... and these guys doing this are the UAMCC leaders and there as it says in there signature on every bulletin board that there NCE CERTIFIED INSTRUCTORS So what is that Chris?? What does that mean??
Ron loves bringing up how I didnt see his name as paid with the PWNA because he was a distributor with PWI... OK that's Ron's story it has no meaning to me. I only looked who the paid members and who weren't are as what my position as a treasurer called for including looking up company names which alot of members were listed as.
Ronny boy loves to bring me down over The "Ruth" thing because I am trying to give it to the industry with Linda's blessing so Ron loves bringing up I take the dead mans photo's..lol I laugh at that everytime he does that. I never saw Ruth dead or alive..
Chris what I learned is that you try to do something that is genuine and real to give back and there are ones who will forever try to beat you down for it... Doesnt make sense to me. Henry went thru this.... and he succeeded as did the PWNA which there forever greatful that he succeeded with his idea. Read the last Cleaner Times Article and Henry gives credit to who helped him come up with the name. Henry wanted to and will be able to another time give out alot more names as to who helped him a ton but this article was about bringing two things together..
Look do I agree with everything the PWNA does.. of course not. Nothing is perfect and I am not using that for an excuse. What I don't see is why you Chris who all over the net support your pals but you wont join there org? You guys did great things down in Tampa. I;ve been to Conventions and Rounds in the past that did stuff along those lines like in the PWNA Covention in Memphis when the 50/50 award which half went to a winner which was close to a $1000 and the other half went to a hurricane fund that was there because Memphis was hit.. was it as much money as you guys raised in Tampa... no but it doesnt mean it meant nothing.
I can go all day with Ron with things on this because I was there back then for a few years and I know what the "Facts" were. I don't make things up to cause anytype drama....shiz I'm a boring and humble person who just happens to like to powerwash. I'll show you guys soon a nice job I recieved once again thru guys like yourself because I network within this industry. I give back there to when I can..
Nothing to hide or make up.... and you should join the UAMCC to show your undying support you show on the net to back up what your saying.. I don't agree with the UAMCC or the PWNA on everything yet I support them because they have some great idea;s and in the PWNA's case they already implemented many of those idea's over the last "20" years.
One last thing Ron says the PWNA has only been in business for 13 of the 20 yrs.. that's Ron. So I been a member for around 11 yrs which is almost the whole time they been in business according to Ron.. Love where Ron Comes up with this stuff.. REALITY TV FOR POWERWASHERS is Ron's calling. He could make all the money he wants and have his name all over it and we can get more notice that way.. Common Ron... you know you can make it HUGE there...lol and I'm not joking..
First off yea I could have skipped #5 because I was typing pretty fast. I could give you a few more examples. You can't discredit the Clean Across America campaing because it wasnt the PWNA's idea... That doesn't work. I was on the board of directors when Henry came in with that. Don't forget the PWNA is a bunch of contractors and distributors and we all make up the "Whole" so Henry was PWNA just like I was and so on and so forth.
The PWNA loved Henry's idea and it became the PWNA's Clean Across America because Henry gave them that one.
Me and Ron are buds to but Ron has a way of not telling the whole truth.. Jean Hendricks came up with the idea of naming the awards in the PWNA if I remember correctly as the Robert Hinderliter and the Joseph Walters awards for best conctactor and the best distributor. So that award has only been around for 8-9yrs... Of the many things that Ron doesnt know and I'll tell you a couple right here is that Everett Abrams won one of those awards. So there goes Rons theory that no one besides RON MUSGRAVES and Henry won it.
So there are two things that Ron is inaccuratly reporting. Here's another--- Yes we knew plenty of guys who were certified. Brian Penney was certified in wood restoration as was Matt Johnson, Myself, Tony Szabo and many many others. So we knew who was. Ron is incorrect there.
The Houston thing if you look back on that Chris, Michael Hinderliter showed the videos he took there and that was extremely helpful for many of us that werent there. That SGT.(Hitting a blank on his name was it SGT Walsh??? I have to look it up) said right on the Video to support your Orgs. amonst other things and some guys came out of there clobbering the industry orgs.
If you also remember last year there were a certain few here who asked only contractors go to Houston with them. There doing that again where there also asking only contractors appear... and these guys doing this are the UAMCC leaders and there as it says in there signature on every bulletin board that there NCE CERTIFIED INSTRUCTORS So what is that Chris?? What does that mean??
Ron loves bringing up how I didnt see his name as paid with the PWNA because he was a distributor with PWI... OK that's Ron's story it has no meaning to me. I only looked who the paid members and who weren't are as what my position as a treasurer called for including looking up company names which alot of members were listed as.
Ronny boy loves to bring me down over The "Ruth" thing because I am trying to give it to the industry with Linda's blessing so Ron loves bringing up I take the dead mans photo's..lol I laugh at that everytime he does that. I never saw Ruth dead or alive..
Chris what I learned is that you try to do something that is genuine and real to give back and there are ones who will forever try to beat you down for it... Doesnt make sense to me. Henry went thru this.... and he succeeded as did the PWNA which there forever greatful that he succeeded with his idea. Read the last Cleaner Times Article and Henry gives credit to who helped him come up with the name. Henry wanted to and will be able to another time give out alot more names as to who helped him a ton but this article was about bringing two things together..
Look do I agree with everything the PWNA does.. of course not. Nothing is perfect and I am not using that for an excuse. What I don't see is why you Chris who all over the net support your pals but you wont join there org? You guys did great things down in Tampa. I;ve been to Conventions and Rounds in the past that did stuff along those lines like in the PWNA Covention in Memphis when the 50/50 award which half went to a winner which was close to a $1000 and the other half went to a hurricane fund that was there because Memphis was hit.. was it as much money as you guys raised in Tampa... no but it doesnt mean it meant nothing.
I can go all day with Ron with things on this because I was there back then for a few years and I know what the "Facts" were. I don't make things up to cause anytype drama....shiz I'm a boring and humble person who just happens to like to powerwash. I'll show you guys soon a nice job I recieved once again thru guys like yourself because I network within this industry. I give back there to when I can..
Nothing to hide or make up.... and you should join the UAMCC to show your undying support you show on the net to back up what your saying.. I don't agree with the UAMCC or the PWNA on everything yet I support them because they have some great idea;s and in the PWNA's case they already implemented many of those idea's over the last "20" years.
One last thing Ron says the PWNA has only been in business for 13 of the 20 yrs.. that's Ron. So I been a member for around 11 yrs which is almost the whole time they been in business according to Ron.. Love where Ron Comes up with this stuff.. REALITY TV FOR POWERWASHERS is Ron's calling. He could make all the money he wants and have his name all over it and we can get more notice that way.. Common Ron... you know you can make it HUGE there...lol and I'm not joking..