Pay to Read

As contractors should we ask the PW Forum owners to Require payment to read bbs. Fee

  • no

    Votes: 19 59.4%

  • yes yearly fee 50.00 all bbs

    Votes: 7 21.9%

  • yes yearly fee 100.00 all bbs

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • yes yearly fee 250.00 all bbs

    Votes: 5 15.6%
  • Total voters
    32
Most things that make it big are free. Once they try to start charging money people start to leave. If facebook was $1 a month I would be outa there. If you were to charge money you would find that a new forum would be started up tomorrow that wold be free and they would have all the members and all the discussions.
 
Jeremiah said:
One final question-- If you guys are so tired of us "newbies" learning so easily because of these bb's- then why do you keep posting on here? Create your own club and make it for all your "special" "professional" friends. --- Sorry, don't mean to rant.
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You'd be surprised what isn't posted on the boards. I quit reading and posting in these BB's for 2 years. Recently came back....did quite fine without them, besides.....what could be worse than your customers googling and finding their house pic's on a forum with a request for help on cleaning or pricing.

I found a handful of other PW's that I liked and respected and when I had an issue I called them up.
 
Greg Rentschler said:
Good to see the benefits.... just one question. Your all three are new to the business at this point and the boards have allowed you to tackle projects larger established companies are bidding on. Are you guys full time or is this a part time business for you to supplement your income (as in do you have another full time job)?
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Greg-
Don't be fooled by the "freshman undergrad" tag. I've been in this biz over 4 years, with over 10 years in other areas of real estate. Through my years as a PM and RE agent, I realized and felt a need for a business like mine in this area. I'm from PA where union rates are paid for quality workmanship, however here in FL cheap labor and fly-by-nite shops hurt the marketplace. I would have gained the same knowledge in the field or working with other crews over time. This board has helped me gain the knowledge without the trial and error and costly mistakes of wingin it. The natural instinct is to protect what is yours, I get that. However, the lowballers won't be spending the vast amount of time reading and learning the way that most of us have. I would not be opposed to a paid member section to discretely share info since I know it would be worth it.
 
welder said:
That's exactly how I started my welding business in Jersey in 1983. Face time / Phone time with other welders. Hanging at the supply house. Trial and error. Al Gore didn't get the internet figured out yet.
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Welded, erected, estimated, designed, drafting board-CAD detailer......done the steel business for 20+ years. There wasn't an internet when I taught myself steel detailing or when I hung up the powered eraser, tossed out the mylar and figured out AutoCad.

I love the internet but I wouldn't run my business based on what a bunch of avatars and smileys told me.
 
welder said:
I belong to a couple of different boards in a totally different trade.

Their rules are simple.

NEW to board,,, access to this area.

250 posts and time on board, access to another area. Posts are reviewed before access is given.

500 posts and time on board with review and full privileges are bestowed.

Hacks and wannabees don't make it. These boards are free and full of detailed technical info. You just have to prove you are a full blown tech to get in. Not just trying to steal info.
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I know it's not going to happen but I personally like that format.
 
Actually I find this topic a bit comical being what has happened between Mike and Lou. I have nothing against either party but can completely understand a particular side of it as I've been through it. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
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Could have been worse, the guy who was half the price could have gotten it instead of Lou.

Lou was in the right Ballpark, Dj was to high and will learn how to price or not be in the commercial market long.

More money in commercial, more frequent work. The projects are larger and will demand the right price. Its completely different than residential. The production rate however is the same. DJ has not learned that he can move faster. He takes that part of his business not serious enough. He in books to much, he needs to perfect the production rate. He bids jobs around what it will take him instead of how long the fastest contractors can work. you will loose alot of those jobs.
 
This is a great discussion guys.

Thanks.
 
welder said:
When you are full time and your entire life is on the line, family, food, clothes, etc. then will you understand. Those that can fall back on their "day job" just won't get it.
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That is so far from the truth at times. If a guy is starving and does this fulltime he may drop his rates thru the floor to put food on his family's table where guys like myself can keep my rates up because I'm not as desperate...but I do have a couple of employees that work fulltime sometimes 6-7 days a week.

So that story Welder goes right out the window for some. Its all in the individual. I keep my guys busy but on top of that I have to make a good buck and yes at times I can get a little desperate to keep my guys busy so I may lower a deal so they can keep there famly happy but I still will not let them make much of nothing for all the hard work they do.

So the fulltime partime arguement to me means nothing. Same with the lowballing. Fulltime and partime guys alike do that so like I said it depends on the individual and most times the guys with other jobs arent starving so they dont have to drop there rates where some of the fulltime guys do.

One more thing. I powerwashed probaby 5 times this year does that make me a partimer because of that and also I have another fulltime job??

Its the individual that determines the price and if there motivated there not going to want to work for "Beer Money" when they know they can make alot more per hour.

Just food for thought.
 
Clean County PW said:
That is so far from the truth at times. If a guy is starving and does this fulltime he may drop his rates thru the floor to put food on his family's table where guys like myself can keep my rates up because I'm not as desperate...but I do have a couple of employees that work fulltime sometimes 6-7 days a week.

So that story Welder goes right out the window for some. Its all in the individual. I keep my guys busy but on top of that I have to make a good buck and yes at times I can get a little desperate to keep my guys busy so I may lower a deal so they can keep there famly happy but I still will not let them make much of nothing for all the hard work they do.

So the fulltime partime arguement to me means nothing. Same with the lowballing. Fulltime and partime guys alike do that so like I said it depends on the individual and most times the guys with other jobs arent starving so they dont have to drop there rates where some of the fulltime guys do.

One more thing. I powerwashed probaby 5 times this year does that make me a partimer because of that and also I have another fulltime job??

Its the individual that determines the price and if there motivated there not going to want to work for "Beer Money" when they know they can make alot more per hour.

Just food for thought.
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+100 John...... Although I do it full time now, When I was doing it part time my prices would usually be higher because I didn't HAVE to have the money... WANTED it yes, but my family didn't depend on it like they do now!! With that being said my prices now havn't dropped off the map or anything but the profit margin is definitely shrunk in order to stay competitive on every job that I am pricing!!
 
Clean County PW said:
That is so far from the truth at times. If a guy is starving and does this fulltime he may drop his rates thru the floor to put food on his family's table where guys like myself can keep my rates up because I'm not as desperate...but I do have a couple of employees that work fulltime sometimes 6-7 days a week.

So that story Welder goes right out the window for some. Its all in the individual. I keep my guys busy but on top of that I have to make a good buck and yes at times I can get a little desperate to keep my guys busy so I may lower a deal so they can keep there famly happy but I still will not let them make much of nothing for all the hard work they do.

So the fulltime partime arguement to me means nothing. Same with the lowballing. Fulltime and partime guys alike do that so like I said it depends on the individual and most times the guys with other jobs arent starving so they dont have to drop there rates where some of the fulltime guys do.

One more thing. I powerwashed probaby 5 times this year does that make me a partimer because of that and also I have another fulltime job??

Its the individual that determines the price and if there motivated there not going to want to work for "Beer Money" when they know they can make alot more per hour.

Just food for thought.
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John, John, John, You are not in the same category that I was alluding to.
Your business is a full time business. Whether the owner works with his hands in the field or Does nothing but estimates or works another job. Your Co. is a full time co.

Different category all together John.
 
welder said:
When you are full time and your entire life is on the line, family, food, clothes, etc. then will you understand. Those that can fall back on their "day job" just won't get it.
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My point exactly.

That is so far from the truth at times. If a guy is starving and does this fulltime he may drop his rates thru the floor to put food on his family's table where guys like myself can keep my rates up because I'm not as desperate...but I do have a couple of employees that work fulltime sometimes 6-7 days a week.

So that story Welder goes right out the window for some. Its all in the individual. I keep my guys busy but on top of that I have to make a good buck and yes at times I can get a little desperate to keep my guys busy so I may lower a deal so they can keep there famly happy but I still will not let them make much of nothing for all the hard work they do.

So the fulltime partime arguement to me means nothing. Same with the lowballing. Fulltime and partime guys alike do that so like I said it depends on the individual and most times the guys with other jobs arent starving so they dont have to drop there rates where some of the fulltime guys do.
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I disagree... for the average guy coming into this business they're doing it because they see an opportunity to make "good money". Good money obviousely has many definitions depending on who you are are what kind of money you have made in the past. $35 an hour pressure washing is "good money" to a guy changing oil at the Jiffy Lube.

To me this topic isn't about charging for the boards it's about putting a leash on the information made available to the general public. It's ultimately all a matter of supply and demand folks..... the more guys in this industry the more competitive pricing will get and with that prices fall. It's EXACTLY what has happened to the lawncare and painting industry. If "we" want to maintain a fair price for our services there has to be some regulation on how easy it is to get into this business. Right now we're handing over a free start up manual with alot of bells and whistles for anyone who has the time to read it.



BTW: If your relying on your presence on the boards to get you work you have other issues...... your website should be doing that.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Could have been worse, the guy who was half the price could have gotten it instead of Lou.

Lou was in the right Ballpark, Dj was to high and will learn how to price or not be in the commercial market long.

More money in commercial, more frequent work. The projects are larger and will demand the right price. Its completely different than residential. The production rate however is the same. DJ has not learned that he can move faster. He takes that part of his business not serious enough. He in books to much, he needs to perfect the production rate. He bids jobs around what it will take him instead of how long the fastest contractors can work. you will loose alot of those jobs.
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I personally don't think DJ's price was out of line. Granted we don't rely on commercial but I have a complex booked for next spring half that size for just under $9K. This is also a little different situation with them.... we both know this isn't only about the price that was given.
 
Big Mike said:
DJ, does that make you a better business owner than them? And if so, how exactly?
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doesn't make me a better business owner it makes for an EASIER sale.


I can discredit a painter the same way I always do. AND it works EVERYTIME...

The only way for me to out sell Lou is to SLASH my prices. He does everything the same way I do. and Professionalism is not worth an xtra 2g to PM.

I am working on some stuff but its a hell of a lot harder to sell against some one that is just as qualified as you are BUT has less over head because they have a full time job that skews their numbers.

All things being equal it comes down to price. I don't want pressure washing to be a commodity!!!!
 
Greg Rentschler said:
I personally don't think DJ's price was out of line. Granted we don't rely on commercial but I have a complex booked for next spring half that size for just under $9K. This is also a little different situation with them.... we both know this isn't only about the price that was given.
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+1000 its simple the guy that wants a lesser salary per year from his company will ALWAYS be cheaper
 
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