Old topic, but good information about BLEACH

Ralph Q said:
Hey Red, I understand what you are saying. If you have a 10% injector, and use 12% SH straight out of the jug then you are shooting 9:1 12% It doesn't break down to 1.2% right? It's 9 gallons water /1 gallon 12% or 10%- 12% SH. hitting the surface. Does that make sense?
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Bingo.
 
Guys, maybe I'm really missing something, but it seems like you're almost saying SH is not water soluble.
Of course the total oz. of actual sodium hypochlorite remains the same, but the strength, dilution, concentration (what have you) has changed if you mix in more water.

This is a quote from chemistry.about.com:
Dilutions You dilute a solution whenever you add solvent to a solution. Adding solvent results in a solution of lower concentration. You can calculate the concentration of a solution following a dilution by applying this equation:

SH is the solute and water is the solvent in this subject.
 
I suppose dilution can be appropriate, but only in regards to the volume. Nicholas correctly identified that the % represents "weight". I incorrectly used the word concentration. Concentration refers to the volume or ratio, not the weight of SH.

As I mentioned before, the % (of dilution) is in regards to volume, the actual quantity that is being applied to the surface (20% of the mix is SH), not the % (weight) of the chemical (i.e. 12% SH).

Diluting the mix to 1:9 (SH:water) means 10% of the mix hitting the surface is SH. The SH is still the same weight [12%].

I seriously doubt that the "weight" of SH can be altered much by mixing it with water. But for a very small amount, the "weight" (7.5%, 10%, 12.5%) of the SH remains unchanged. The illusion that the SH is weaker is due to it being spread much thinner (less SH at any given point - not weaker SH). Think parts per million (PPM). The PPM may be lower but the actual chemical remains the same. There's just a lower concentration at any given point.
 
[h=2]Weight Percent (Wt. %) of Sodium Hypochlorite[/h] The weight percent of sodium hypochlorite is the weight of the sodium hypochlorite per 100 parts of solution. It can be calculated by converting the weight percent of available chlorine into its equivalent as sodium hypochlorite by multiplying the ratio of their respective molecular weights:
Note: When measuring the specific gravity, measure it at the same temperature as the temperature of the bleach sample used in the bleach strength test.
Weight percent available chlorine x NaOCl/Cl[SUB]2[/SUB] or x 74/71 or 1.05 weight percent NaOCl
Weight percent sodium hypochlorite
= (gpl available chlorine x 1.05)/(10 x specific gravity)
or = (trade % Available Cl[SUB]2[/SUB] x 1.05)/specific gravity
or = weight percent available chlorine x 1.05
Since sodium hypochlorite is sold based on the strength of the product, it is critical to specify exactly which term is used to define the strength of the product.
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Pete Marentay said:
I have really missed teachin' and preachin' like in the old days, so I thought I'd like to chime in on something.

In the world of cleaning and sanitizing, bleach has been a “go to” product for years.

Many people have asked me about using industrial bleach and its advantages over bleach bought at the grocery store or Clorox Outdoor. The answer has always been that bleach is essentially the same in any form and only the concentration changes.

Grocery store bleach used to average around 5.75% concentration Today you can buy more concentrated bleach in the grocery stores that delivers around 7.5% as well. You have to read the label carefully, but seeing words like “33% stronger” and “super concentrated” are a good tip-off to the stronger concentration. Industrial bleach is rated between 12% and 15% concentration and Clorox Outdoor averages around 7.5% concentration.

Why do so many contractors prefer industrial bleach? The triple cost advantage to using bleach at that concentration is huge. Let me share some examples. We will start with the cost of buying the bleach.

Suppose you wanted to clean a house using 5.75% bleach. If your goal is to use a final concentration of 1%, which is typically strong enough for killing the mold and algae if combined with a good detergent that delivers some cling, then each gallon of bleach can be cut with 4.75 gallons of water – creating 5.75 gallons of 1% bleach.

If you start with 7.5% bleach, then each gallon can be cut with 6.5 gallons of water to get the same killing power (notice I didn’t say “cleaning power” because bleach doesn’t clean, it sanitizes).

If you pay $3 for the 5.75% bleach and $10 for the 7.5% bleach, then the $5.75% bleach cost you $0.52 per usable gallon. The 7.5% bleach actually cost you $0.75 per usable gallon – over-priced a bit.

Using 12.5% bleach, which many contractors can buy in bulk for around $3.50 per gallon actually delivers 12.5 gallons of usable 1% liquid for about $0.28 per usable gallon. The savings are obvious.

The second part of lower costs using industrial bleach is the cost of transportation. A gallon of 5.75% bleach weighs the same as a gallon of 12.5% industrial bleach, so you can haul less than half of the amount of bleach to get the same amount of power. That translates into more MPG and fewer brake pad changes over time. It can even mean using a smaller truck since you carry less weight, but most won’t count that as a real saving.

The third element of savings comes into play when you need volume for your work. You are limited to carrying about 115 gallons of bleach at a time by DOT regulations – NO MATTER WHAT CONCENTRATION THAT BLEACH IS. That means that you can carry 115 gallons of 12.5% bleach instead of 115 gallons of 5.75% bleach and get more than twice the bleach power. This is very important to contractors who clean roofs, for example.

In the end, nothing beats the economy of using industrial bleach. This is great information for the guys who can get their hands on the stuff, but what about the guys who cannot? Well, remember where we started out? All bleach is the pretty much the same except for the concentration. So if your only source of bleach is laundry bleach, go to Wal-Mart or some store where the bleach moves fast and is always fresh and use that. You can kill just as many germs or just as much mold – it just takes twice as much and will cost you twice as much per gallon. In the big scheme of life, the difference for most house wash jobs comes down to a few dollars on a $250 job, so don’t sweat the little things.

Next, take care of your bleach. Keep it out of sunlight and away from excessive heat. Bleach is pretty unstable and will break down fast enough without sunlight and heat, but adding sunlight and heat can affect bleach – and lower its effectiveness – in just a few hours. Learn from this and only buy enough bleach at one time that you will use in a week or two. Hold on to bleach longer that, and its performance drops dramatically. A lot of people think their soap isn’t working right when the truth is they are trying to use stale bleach. Just like fresh gas, fresh bleach packs the punch and stale bleach does not.

PS – Watch out when you buy bleach in a local store. Most bleach is sold in containers that look like gallons but really aren’t. Some are as small as 3 quarts. Be sure to check the size of the jug when you are mixing cleaners and when you are calculating costs.

PPS – why is Clorox Outdoor so expensive? Simply put, Clorox Outdoor is formulated a little differently for several reasons. One of the primary reasons is that it moves a lot slower off the shelf because it is perceived as a specialty product. They formulate it with a small amount of sodium hydroxide to keep it a little more stable that ordinary bleach (which is incredibly unstable and can go bad in 30 days or less). Clorox Outdoor is sold in home improvement stores and hardware stores instead of grocery stores, and that affects the price too. Now that you can get 7.5% bleach in grocery stores, Clorox Outdoor doesn’t really seem worth the cost for a contractor.
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Great to see you Pete, hope you and Mary are well. You get out west call


Maryland event Dec 7th free free
 
tigerwash said:
Great info! I am still using 8.25%, the problem being the huge sizes of 12% you have to order just to get the stuff. I can't justify that at this time.
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Now that your website is ranking well, I'm sure that's going to change!

fyi, I found the Kroger brand is the only store brand that's 8.25%, although I think Costco's stock of Clorox has a high rotation rate.
 
danwagner said:
Red, I see what angle you are coming from now and I'm convinced this whole discussion is semantics. In the end you either use too weak a mix, just right, or too strong!
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I was trying to wrap my head around it and what Red said makes sense. I tried to reverse engineer the situation and if what everyone else is saying is true, then you should be able to make a solution stronger. Take a 5 gallon bucket and dump a gallon of 12% in then fill the rest with water. Now say you wanted to get the same concentration with 6%. Would you dump 2 gallons of 6% in and fill the rest with water. I'm not sure, but I don't think you get 12%. 12% is 12%. I think if you changed the name to SH super, instead of 12% SH then it makes more sense. 10% of SH super hitting the surface. Everyones caught up in the math of it. Maybe it is semantics. :unsure:

Ok Ok dump 1 gallon of 6% in and fill the bucket up halfway
 
Ralph. .both of those solutions would dissolve to 2.4% by weight..or in pressure washer guy terms if you put that in a pump up sprayer you would applying a 2.4% sh mix if you stirred appropriately of of course. ...now thats whether you have 1/2 a gallon or 2 gallons in the pump, as long as its poured from one or those 5 gallon buckets you mixed
 
palm beach said:
Ralph. .both of those solutions would dissolve to 2.4% by weight..or in pressure washer guy terms if you put that in a pump up sprayer you would applying a 2.4% sh mix if you stirred appropriately of of course. ...now thats whether you have 1/2 a gallon or 2 gallons in the pump, as long as its poured from one or those 5 gallon buckets you mixed
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How did you come up with that %?
 
Or look at it this way. Fill a 5 gallon bucket up with 5 gallons of Pool Shock at 12% Now another bucket with 5 gallons of Clorox at 5%. No matter how many times you do it one is 12% the other is 5%
 
This is the biggest headache thread I've seen in a while.


Take two shot glasses of whiskey and put them in 12 oz glasses . fill one glass with coke . which glass has a stronger content of booz? now do the same with bleach ?
 
Diamond Jim said:
This is the biggest headache thread I've seen in a while.

Take two shot glasses of whiskey and put them in 12 oz glasses . fill one glass with coke . which glass has a stronger content of booz? now do the same with bleach ?
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Take a 8oz glass and put 4oz 100 Proof Rum in it, now add 4oz of water... does the rum magically become 50 Proof?
 
"Red" said:
Take a 8oz glass and put 4oz 100 Proof Rum in it, now add 4oz of water... does the rum magically become 50 Proof?
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The percentage of Sodium Hypochlorite is by weight….. not fluid measurements! If the Weight is 10% than the remaining 90% weight is Two hydrogens and One Oxygen.. .Likewise for 12% weight and 88% weight respectively. If you take a fluid measurement of your(SH 12% plus 88% water) and add a fluid measure of 100% water. The 12% will be diluted by adding more weight of water. The stronger the initial weight, the less water is needed to dilute to get your active SH solution. Remember your can't "look at a gallon of 12% SH and say 15.3ounces of that gallon is Sh and 112.7 ounces of that gallon are water" The SH is measured in weight not fluid measurements. We dilute the stable SH with water for our mixes. You can't make 6% SH stronger just as your can't make 12%SH stronger. But you can dilute both the 12% and 6% to make them weaker!
 
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