Las Vegas Environmental Garage Cleaning Event hosted by Jim Gamble 2013

Tony Shelton said:
Thanks for that well thought out response Pat.

The problem is there are two prevailing views that are polar opposites. Two entirely different philosophies.

On the one hand you've got guys who believe some or all of the following:

1) We don't need to be afraid of competition, the market and quality of work will set the prices.
2) We don't need to be afraid of local contractors. There's enough work to go around.
3) We don't need the government to scare us into caring about the water quality for our kids, we already care about it and do our work accordingly, responsibly and within the law
4) We don't need to turn in other contractors to gain more business because our quality stands on it's own, and they will eventually fail anyway.
5) We don't need to make environmental rules tailored to the way we work to push others out of business. Somebody might come along with a better idea later and we can all prosper from it.
6) We don't need to continually try to raise our prices. We get paid fairly for what we do.

On the other hand you've got guys who believe some of all of the following:

1) Competition must be crushed any way possible because they keep making them have to improve to keep customers.
2) Local Contractors are the enemy. They have to be banned from coming to any schools they might teach or any other learning situations.
3) The government it there for them to use as a tool to destroy other contractors (like coming down from San Francisco and Texas and calling in a report to the Las Vegas Code enforcement that hazardous waste and chemicals are at my house, yes, I have the report right here, normally I would have told them to get off my property, but this time I invited them to look for themselves, and of course, there was nothing there to find)
4) They believe that no contractor could ever be environmentally responsible because they themselves are not. Satellite photos and the lack of manifests for waste tell the whole story. It is impossible for them to believe that every one is not like them. That is why they always call us liars, because they can't fathom the idea that someone could function in this world without lying.
5) They believe that prices are always in need of rising. Nevermind the fact that the country is broke, millions are out of work and suffering, It's too hard to buckle down, reduce expenses and streamline procedures, it's much easier to use the government to scare the crap out of customers to make them pay what they already don't have.

There are other differences also.

The fact is, Pat, this is what is wrong with our entire country. For decades we have tried to work together, Democrats and Republicans. No one would take a stand and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! One side is right and the other is wrong. If we had done that years ago our country wouldn't be in the mess it is in.

We don't need to work together as an industry. We need to draw battle lines, put ourselves to work fighting for what we believe in and may the side that is right win.

You mention the window cleaners and hood cleaners. There have been some virtual bloodbaths in the Hood cleaning fights. Maybe you just don't know about them. I don't know so much about the window cleaners, but I know the roof cleaners are divided also.

Your idea about dividing up into all the different types of cleaning has a lot of merit. You are right, they are all very different.

The one thing the UAMCC is doing that has never been done before is relying on local contractors to deal with local problems. When they need help, the UAMCC plans to be there to try to help them.

That is a far cry from going to cities where there are no problems and introducing new problems like what happened here with Jim. He went to the EPA guy in Carson City and they presented a false, (as usual) perception of what cleaning a garage really is. Most of what comes out of garages is tire rubber. There is some oil, but the black stuff Jim shows on his videos is mostly tire rubber, easily taken care of with simple filtration. Yet he presents it as some kind of arsenic just waiting to kill everyone within miles.

This time it backfired and the Permit issuer would not allow him to clean the garage. That is exactly what should have happened and is poetic justice for his misrepresentation of the facts.

The problem is, Robert and Jim plan to do the same in Tennessee, Pat. And Mississippi, and Florida etc, etc. They are a rolling wrecking ball for the industry that puts food on our table. And for no good reason. Our impact on the environment is already minimal and most contractors worth their salt are already doing what they need to in order to keep the environment safe. That is why we have the wash water control training. It's not that difficult.

No, we don't need to work together. Some of us need to come together and crush the forces that would starve our families in order to make 24 cents a foot and take yachts to a ballgame just to make themselves feel important.

But we don't need to resort to their tactics. All we need is a few good contractors willing to give up some of their time to help others.
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Thanks Tony you are right, there will not be a coming together of the minds.

Yeah I am aware of the blood baths but IKECA has come out as the top org for the kitchen cleaning. There is also a divide for the window cleaners but the IWCA has come out on top in that industry.

I believe that the way they were able to do this is because they had one thing to focus on. That is why I suggested dividing up the different aspect of pressure washing.

I think that an org may be needed but instead of fighting with others maybe the efforts need to be put into generating these different BMPs so that when a contractor calls for help there is ammo to put in the gun. A professionally written BMP based on the CWA regulations will go a long way with local officials. The org needs to now be premptive instead of reactive.

Most contractors do not have the skills, as you know, to effect change with local officials. Confrontation is only going to raise the hackles on those officials.

I see a lot of this infighting coming down to jealousy on one side or the other and sometimes both. You can not do anything about that.

I suggest that people volunteer to help with the BMPs within their area of expertise. There should also be a CWA master that can attempt to clarify those hard to interpret regulations (it may take a lawyer). Maybe someone that can contact the EPA and get a clarification to help with the BMP. (not writing it but clarifing regulations)

Then if the org gets wind of some local regulation changes coming they can step into the discussion with a well prepared BMP to propose to them. I know that is what you are all trying to do, but you are trying to eat the elephant whole instead of one bite at a time.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Someone "called in" a report last week on me saying that I "Have Hazardous chemicals stored at the property" and "hazardous waste" and that I "might be running a business out of a private residence"

There were a few things that were strange right off the bat:

1) This neighborhood is full of Home occupation permits, one if which, for ten years, is mine. There are some with semi trucks, pool cleaning companies, office cleaning companies, construction companies, and various others within a block of my house. The fact that I have had marked trucks parked in my driveway for the past ten years might have been a clue to my neighbors that yes, I am in fact, one of those who have a home occupation permit. So, like the inspector said, it's extremely rare to get the complaint that "they might be running a business out of a private residence" and it usually comes from new residents from California who can't understand the concept that a home occupation like we have is legal. But we have no new residents in our neighborhood.

2) Less than 10% of the complaints come by phone. Most complaints come by internet where they THINK they will be anonymous (but are not). This one came by phone. Also very unusual. This complaint, as reported, came from an out of state number which is almost unheard of in these situations according to them. It is being researched as we speak by them.

3) The only truck I have in view of the public is the coil cleaning truck. Most of my neighbors know that we are a "green" company because we clean with only water. No one outside our industry would have any knowledge of transportation of waste or even have any idea that it would be possible for us to pick up waste even if we wanted to. We do not have a waste tank on any of our rigs. Our reclaim rig is always parked in the back behind the wall and people have no idea what that thing is anyway. Many of them think its a big barbeque.

4) There was no mention of my lift being parked in the driveway. Usually when a neighbor calls in and complains they will mention something they think is an eyesore. I did get a call once during the election when I had the McCain sign up 60 ft on the lift and they told me to take it down after the election and park it back where I park it now. The lift was not mentioned in the complaint.

So Steven, you tell me. Ten years, four businesses, never a complaint like this. The same week Jim and Robert are here I get a complaint about "hazardous waste", a term which no one in their right mind would associate with coil cleaning which is all my neighbors ever see.

Welcome to Jim and Robert's future for our industry.
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Am I surprised? This whole thing is nearing pretty scary territory.
 
All of Jim's problems were of their own doings. The reason he ripped off contractors advertising a full garage cleaning when he provided even less demos than go on at most events was because of his own ego thinking that the same BS he pulls in California was going to work here.

Robert was involved in all of it also. Hundreds of miles from his own state.

Whoever you are, where ever you are. You are next. They have no boundaries, no cares for what they might do to contractors in their wake.

If either of them has any integrity left they will speak up and let everyone know which of them did it before the information comes back from the City of Las Vegas.

Don't hold your breath.
 
TheCleaningDoc said:
Thanks Tony you are right, there will not be a coming together of the minds.

Yeah I am aware of the blood baths but IKECA has come out as the top org for the kitchen cleaning. There is also a divide for the window cleaners but the IWCA has come out on top in that industry.

I believe that the way they were able to do this is because they had one thing to focus on. That is why I suggested dividing up the different aspect of pressure washing.

I think that an org may be needed but instead of fighting with others maybe the efforts need to be put into generating these different BMPs so that when a contractor calls for help there is ammo to put in the gun. A professionally written BMP based on the CWA regulations will go a long way with local officials. The org needs to now be premptive instead of reactive.

Most contractors do not have the skills, as you know, to effect change with local officials. Confrontation is only going to raise the hackles on those officials.

I see a lot of this infighting coming down to jealousy on one side or the other and sometimes both. You can not do anything about that.

I suggest that people volunteer to help with the BMPs within their area of expertise. There should also be a CWA master that can attempt to clarify those hard to interpret regulations (it may take a lawyer). Maybe someone that can contact the EPA and get a clarification to help with the BMP. (not writing it but clarifing regulations)

Then if the org gets wind of some local regulation changes coming they can step into the discussion with a well prepared BMP to propose to them. I know that is what you are all trying to do, but you are trying to eat the elephant whole instead of one bite at a time.
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Pat, this is exactly what we are doing at the UAMCC. We already have volunteers from almost half the states that are sending in local BMP's from their states for compilation into a searchable database so that contractors can figure out exactly what the rules are in THEIR area of work.

We can't make a BMP that is nationwide. There are too many egos involved from the regulators who don't care at all to the radical ones who want to make a name for themselves, just like in any industry. The only sensible thing we can do is compile all the information we can and make it available to contractors.

In the process the state directors are learning more about their regions and the environmental mindset there locally. That will help them should problems come up like what happened in Houston and we are asked to help. Most of the time it isn't a regulator who is out of control and out to get businesses, but it is a situation where they have been fed false information like all those powerpoints Robert puts up showing worst case scenarios or sometimes even staged fakery like Jim's 'Black stuff coming out of a filter" videos (tire marks).

There is no need for retaliation when they are doing things like they did to me or even what they have done to other contractors. All we need to do is keep our heads set towards the goal of educating contractors and regulators to the fact that we are CLEANERS and not polluters and our industry will be the better for it. One day the most efficient, trustworthy, and effective contractors will take over and the conniving users of the government will fail. It just takes time and effort.
 
And Steven, there are no bounds and the truth means nothing to these guys.

Here is the latest from John T and his enabler, Beth.


http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/club-house/25125-industry-internet-cowboys-vs-truth.html


I expect the local police to barge into my home at any time based on these false rantings.

I am sure someone will be able to look up my former posts where I have said that true child molesters should be executed immediately. I have also publicly stated that my friend in Tennessee was caught urinating on the side of a dirt road late at night drunk and was charge with exposure and is now forced to register as a sex offender wherever he moves. Three of my high school friends witnessed the whole thing. There was no one one the road but them and the cop. John knows this whole story, and the fact that he is willing to twist it into a lie like this sends a chill down my spine to think of all the citizens he encountered or testified against during his tenure as a police officer.

Further he chooses to lie about what I have shared with both him and the other cop from New Jersey. I have nothing to hide. I went into detail with them about why I am mistrustful of the police. When I was just a young man, well over 20 years ago I was a licensed private investigator with a permit to carry a weapon in two states back when getting a permit was near impossible. I was in a foreign city to me with $3000 in my wallet for our trip, that did not allow concealed weapon permits. Someone spotted the weapon. I committed the misdemeanor of carrying a concealed weapon, a $600 fine that I had thoroughly researched before going there. I knew it was a misdemeanor, but I wasn't about to walk around a dangerous city unarmed. I was told that they were going to make an example of me for carrying a weapon in their city by using testimony of an informant making false charges. This informant eventually went to my wife outside the courtroom and offered to recant his testimony for $500. She went to the police to ask them to put a recorder on her and they laughed at her and told her to pay him the $500. I still believed in justice so I told her not to pay the scumbag a dime. I was in jail for 58 days before I was finally released. Hardly an ex-con.

Those 58 days changed my life. I had grown up in a very strict religion that had produced a feeling of constant guilt and hopelessness. During those 58 days I kept to myself and read the bible almost in its entirety in seven different versions and for the first time in my life I had hope reading about others wrongly accused or on the wrong track who had returned to God. And I discovered God's grsce

The ideas of becoming rich no matter what the cost faded away. The idea of cheating, lying, or hurting others to benefit myself became despicable to me. I hated my old mindset. No, I wasn't a criminal before that, but I had little problems lying or taking advantage of others prior to that experience.

I got out to find my wife had moved in with another man in that short time. I moved into a home for the down and out provided by a church and run by the sheriff, who, ironically, got my concealed weapons permit reinstated.

On the first morning I walked almost 20 miles in the snow filling out applications. I got a job offer that day.

I worked for that company for about four years and advanced from cleaning printers to singlehandedly opening and running an office for them that covered three states.

I enlisted the help of a local minister to help with reconciliation of my marriage. Chris was not much more than an infant then. We reconciled but she never embraced my new lifestyle, continued with the affairs and the marriage didn't last in the end.

Meanwhile I was able to convince her to go with me so I could attend a seminary in Memphis. During that time we gave birth to my daughter

I don't know what else John has illegally researched about my past, but in another post he mentions my ex, so I suppose he found a police report where she alleged that I pulled her down to the bed and hurt her as she was packing to leave at one point. Perhaps he chose to ignore the fact that not only were the charges dismissed but she was fined for making a false report.

The final straw was later after I was out of the seminary when she left me again and moved another man into my house.

I moved into a friend's basement. On my way to pick up the kids for visitation 30 miles away I got a call from the police telling me not to bother coming for visitation. She had a new boyfriend there and they said no matter what I do when I come there there will be trouble and for me to take up the visitation issue with the judge on Monday.

I have never believed in divorce. I always wanted to keep my family together. But at that point I gave up. I pulled over on the side of the highway and cried myself to sleep. I woke up four hours later and even though I wasn't a drinker at the time I decided I wanted to get drunk.

I went to a bar and shortly saw a girl I had known from church who had just gotten off a two year mission trip to Russia. She was also the former girlfriend of my best friend who's basement I was living in. She was the designated driver for a drunk girl from her work who had just been jilted by a long term boyfriend.

Then a few weeks later I saw her at the drug store, then Kmart. Then, when my divorce was almost complete I asked her out.

That girl was Shelly. Anyone who knows her will have no problem agreeing that she is a direct gift from God. I like to believe he was pleased in the changed direction my life took and my efforts to keep my family together.

John wants resume. Here's mine.

I have a son who spent all but three years of his life with me. You all know him. He would give anyone the shirt off his back. He is kind and good, an honest and good father and husband and a successful business owner.

I was only able to spend less than a year and a half raising my oldest daughter. All she gas been exposed to is lies, cheating and dishonesty. She is in jail now about to start a two year prison term.

My youngest, Fayth is a joy without a selfish bone in her body. I have raised her from birth.

My resume on a personal level, if John wants to know so much about my personal life, consists of 20 plus years of an honest living, a concern for others, freedom from any legal entanglements, four businesses, topped off by good, honest associates near me and Shelly, Chris and Fayth and now great honest God fearing grandkids too

There is my personal resume. I am proud of all if it because it brought me to where I am today.

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And John pulled a Jim and sanitized his post after I linked it. Here is the original.

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And for you guys who think John is just a rogue, where do you think he gets his ideas from? There is only one other person who has called me an "Internet Cowboy" and insinuated I am some sort of criminal and that would be your industry icon Robert Hinderliter.

Robert, John, Jim, they are three of a kind.

You guys know me, I don't act one way in public and totally different in private conversations.


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Maybe a little more light on the kind of reasonable and rational conversation that comes from our "Industry leaders" and their "resumes" is in order.

Ever wonder what Robert is looking up when he isn't posting pictures made to make us all look like environmental criminals?

Here, take a look at what he sent me during the event. (Yes, my response is harsh, but Ron is my friend and my fingers went faster than my mind.

Maybe a mental background check is in order for "industry leaders"

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Great posts Tony! Help others see the truth in things always.

It is a shame that others would do dishonest things to further their businesses, spread lies about others and get people new to the bbs's out there to help them spread lies and mis-information by being their little puppets.

I am grateful that You, Ron and the others in this industry have helped so many get on the right track, especially with the help Ron gave to help the Houston situation slowly start to get back to normal so contractors are not afraid to do the work they have been doing for years without the fear of getting fined illegally.

It is with truth that Ron showed the city officials and others in charge that these contractors are working correctly on most of the properties but with the officials and police believing that the only way is to "just fine them and let the judge figure out what is going on" instead of using some common sense, seeing what is happening, actually talking to the contractor and with his own eyes, see if there is actually a problem or if they are just listening to complaints only and wanting to hit their unofficial quota of fines for the month.

It is great what Ron has accomplished in the city of Houston and how contractors are working again and without the fear of getting fined out of existence due to years of mis-information by vendors and those with certain agendas as how it was proved there in Houston. It is nice that the city officials welcome Ron there and with his help got the situation back on track to be contractor friendly and focus on more important things than illegally fining contractors.

Thanks guys!
 
Scott Stone said:
I can't honestly say that I am impressed with the cleaning that was done. I could give you a list of things, but maybe it was simply because they were demoing equipment, and not intent on cleaning the garage.
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Should we Mess with Garage Cleaning at the Phoenix Event ?
 
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