Jeff LeCours Reply from PTstate

Well I agree with educating the comp. There is power in #s. Just last monday I was working and a hack was cleaning a gas station next door to the building i was working on. 6 guys ,one boss ,1- 4gpm hot water rig brand new.1- 24" steel eagle SC and a 2 gun set up + 2 HD PWs. the old man wanted to know if I knew how to connect the 2 guns, I showed him how to do it, and gave him some old tips i was going to throw away. They had been cleaning for 7hrs straight and it looked like crap! He had guys pouring muratic acid straight outta the gallon on the crete. I BS with them for a while to find out they are in my hometown. and i had gotten lowballed by the owner on another contract I was already servicing and lost it to them. I set up, DS my chems and let it dwell. when i started cleaning the guys were all tripping out @ how clean it was getting, they went to wake up the old man to see it, jaw dropped he asked if he could buy some of my chems and for me to stop because they were not gonna get paid when they saw how i cleaned the crete. Before the man left he cam to shake my hand and told me i was very nice and why i helpped him if he was comp? I told him that its better to have a friend than an enemy. He was happy. next day i get a call from the contact of the chain i was working for and he says this guy called and tried to steal your acct.for 1/2 of you price. But I told him i had looked for a PW that did a good job for so long then i found you and will never change no matter how low the bid is. Hes like, after that the man said good that guy is the best Ive seen and thats why I was really calling. He taught us a lot and never disrespected us, hes a good guy.
Long story short, He tried to stab me in the back but my work spoke for itself. The work that the hacks have done in the past spoke for itself too. and I won this one. only education will help the industry raise the bar one hack at a time
 
Jeff Robison said:
The internet has lowered prices by making every one compete against everyone in the printing business. It is no longer a regional or city competitor thing. When buying anything now I go straight to the web and are comparing companies from NY to CA.

In my other profession the two biggest retailers for our products are only on the internet and did not exist 10 years ago. Pioneers came in saw the opportunity and changed the industry.
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No China Changed your industry, the web made it easy to find them to order what I need.

Cheaper manufacturing changed it, you retooled your plant and are still competitive? YES
 
Jeff Robison said:
The internet has lowered prices by making every one compete against everyone in the printing business. It is no longer a regional or city competitor thing. When buying anything now I go straight to the web and are comparing companies from NY to CA.

In my other profession the two biggest retailers for our products are only on the internet and did not exist 10 years ago. Pioneers came in saw the opportunity and changed the industry.
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Jeff, i deal with two guys in the printing business. Both are 35 year in, the kid got ahold of new technology and now they make stuff cheaper faster and more profit. They print items cheaper but make more profit per piece. Not volume...INK changes and equipment. Bottom line they are richer
 
Ron, we've spoke about this before. I don't need to discredit the hack if the system rejects the hack.
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Never ever would ask you to discredit anyone, we are talking about customer awareness programs!!!!

Doing them alone SUCKS, I have been for 20 years
 
What a great discussion. I make it point to get to know every mobile guy or gal I can. I don't feel I have any competition I have 6 other guys that I can call if I get in a bind, we all charge about the same money and each has an area of this industry we specialize/prefer to work at. If anybody wants to come and play with us they are more than welcome. I told the last newcomer I'll never say anything bad about you, you don't knock me, or lowball bid and we will get along fine. Start knocking me or the other guys we'll start bidding jobs for $50.00 and run your a$$ off fast. That was 8 months ago. We have sent a few jobs back and forth since. Education benefits all of us, personally, professionally, and financially. Just my humble little opinion.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Never ever would ask you to discredit anyone, we are talking about customer awareness programs!!!!

Doing them alone SUCKS, I have been for 20 years
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I'm sure every commercial pressure washing company has some form of a customer awareness program. By that I mean they probably educate every customer they come in contact with.

In 2008 I had to educate the facility mgr, then the asst mgr and ultimately the general manager of a water park.....went over pretty well, we landed a good sized job. We were working on proposal for a monthly maintenance cleaning contract plus a potential contract for 11 other 50k sq ft locations. Then he left before we had a signed contract and took several key people with him. We tried to follow up but Corp was handling the duties till they hired a new facility manager. After 2 months, we met with the new guy and had to go thru the demo/cost/benefit again (all the knowledge left with the old staff). We were again successful with the first hurdle but crashed and burned with the asst mgr. They went back to the crappy lifeguard + wand + 4 gal cold water cleaning and wand mark galore.

This is just one example but my point is that customer awareness is really just manager awareness or with bigger companies maybe it's purchasing agent awareness.

Teaching the lower rungs of the ladder is a full time job. It's a bottom up mentality. Poor ROI if that is the extent of your "awareness" plan.

I do customer awareness just like everyone else, it's impossible not to since it's a part of sales. But it's not the awareness plan I mentioned. I said "public awareness" was the key.....not customer awareness.

I wish I could share everything we are working on but it would be self defeating and as of yet it is still in it's infancy.

I will say this much.....there are an abundant number of examples of how public awareness has impacted the growth of specific industries. Our leaders and pioneers seem to be stuck inside the box and all we get is the same repeated message.....we are inside the echo chamber.


A few posts back, you told me to "lead". Considering there isn't any tracks in front of me, I suppose that's what I'm doing. I have me and my business partner, a blank canvas and the 24th largest metropolitan area in the US......a perfect laboratory.
 
RandyB said:
What a great discussion. I make it point to get to know every mobile guy or gal I can. I don't feel I have any competition I have 6 other guys that I can call if I get in a bind, we all charge about the same money and each has an area of this industry we specialize/prefer to work at. If anybody wants to come and play with us they are more than welcome. I told the last newcomer I'll never say anything bad about you, you don't knock me, or lowball bid and we will get along fine. Start knocking me or the other guys we'll start bidding jobs for $50.00 and run your a$$ off fast. That was 8 months ago. We have sent a few jobs back and forth since. Education benefits all of us, personally, professionally, and financially. Just my humble little opinion.
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What I do....
I whip off the road any time I see a PW'er cleaning. I never criticize his process or his equipment. I offer a card and a few minutes of who we are and what we do, call us if you need help and let them get back to work. The more the merrier.....

What I don't do...
I have no intention of pushing CWA compliance to other PW'ers. If the vendors/Org's want to press those buttons then they can mail or call them. I also don't call their customer and sell on fear. It's a personal thing for me, we all start somewhere. I do mention reclaim but I don't mention the lack of it with the other guy. I sell what "we do" not what he "can't do".....the customer can figure that out on their own without my help.
 
This is why we are alone , we should have our brothers helping in these efforts.


Ohio pressure wash said:
I'm sure every commercial pressure washing company has some form of a customer awareness program. By that I mean they probably educate every customer they come in contact with.

In 2008 I had to educate the facility mgr, then the asst mgr and ultimately the general manager of a water park.....went over pretty well, we landed a good sized job. We were working on proposal for a monthly maintenance cleaning contract plus a potential contract for 11 other 50k sq ft locations. Then he left before we had a signed contract and took several key people with him. We tried to follow up but Corp was handling the duties till they hired a new facility manager. After 2 months, we met with the new guy and had to go thru the demo/cost/benefit again (all the knowledge left with the old staff). We were again successful with the first hurdle but crashed and burned with the asst mgr. They went back to the crappy lifeguard + wand + 4 gal cold water cleaning and wand mark galore.

This is just one example but my point is that customer awareness is really just manager awareness or with bigger companies maybe it's purchasing agent awareness.

Teaching the lower rungs of the ladder is a full time job. It's a bottom up mentality. Poor ROI if that is the extent of your "awareness" plan.

I do customer awareness just like everyone else, it's impossible not to since it's a part of sales. But it's not the awareness plan I mentioned. I said "public awareness" was the key.....not customer awareness.

I wish I could share everything we are working on but it would be self defeating and as of yet it is still in it's infancy.

I will say this much.....there are an abundant number of examples of how public awareness has impacted the growth of specific industries. Our leaders and pioneers seem to be stuck inside the box and all we get is the same repeated message.....we are inside the echo chamber.


A few posts back, you told me to "lead". Considering there isn't any tracks in front of me, I suppose that's what I'm doing. I have me and my business partner, a blank canvas and the 24th largest metropolitan area in the US......a perfect laboratory.
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Ron Musgraves said:
This is why we are alone , we should have our brothers helping in these efforts.
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Our brothers sounds too union'ish to me.....

I think the PW'ing owners will follow any path to a sustainable relationship with property owners. It's going to take a successful example before they step outside of the echo chamber.

I do need your help...keep answering my calls, you help more than you may realize.
 
good arguments.
Example for both: Ive been preaching Seal N Lock in this area for several years now. Great product and I get a premium price for it. But that preaching has led lots of others to use it. While preaching the product I proclaim the price I command. It has brought up the real rate contractors are charging for paver sealing with any product. There are still lots of hack sealers with low prices but I compete more and more with contractors using Seal N Lock and with similar pricing. That's where it becomes a trust issue with the customer and my winning smile sells the job. I have people I now trust to pass customers to because of meeting and talking to them at RTs.
Except for you Kory. You have to raise your price above $.20/sf man. You can do it, buddy. Just keep trying. :D
 
jon chapman said:
good arguments.
Example for both: Ive been preaching Seal N Lock in this area for several years now. Great product and I get a premium price for it. But that preaching has led lots of others to use it. While preaching the product I proclaim the price I command. It has brought up the real rate contractors are charging for paver sealing with any product. There are still lots of hack sealers with low prices but I compete more and more with contractors using Seal N Lock and with similar pricing. That's where it becomes a trust issue with the customer and my winning smile sells the job. I have people I now trust to pass customers to because of meeting and talking to them at RTs.
Except for you Kory. You have to raise your price above $.20/sf man. You can do it, buddy. Just keep trying. :D
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.20 for what????
 
jon chapman said:
good arguments.
Example for both: Ive been preaching Seal N Lock in this area for several years now. Great product and I get a premium price for it. But that preaching has led lots of others to use it. While preaching the product I proclaim the price I command. It has brought up the real rate contractors are charging for paver sealing with any product. There are still lots of hack sealers with low prices but I compete more and more with contractors using Seal N Lock and with similar pricing. That's where it becomes a trust issue with the customer and my winning smile sells the job. I have people I now trust to pass customers to because of meeting and talking to them at RTs.
Except for you Kory. You have to raise your price above $.20/sf man. You can do it, buddy. Just keep trying. :D
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So thru info sharing you have made alot of money. I know your responsible for alot of revenue to Richy....Sealnlock has made a few dollars through networking. All started with you Jon
 
This is all a mixed bag for me..... the "sharing and caring" is good to an extent and there's no doubt I've both learned from some and taught others over the years. IMO however the information is WAY TOO easily accessible. You don't see "how-to" websites out there on various other "normal" trades. With the pressure washing industry anybody that wants in it can damn near learn everything they need to learn from these forums anymore which no doubt has initiated a large number of startups over just the past few years.

Fact is the more competition you have the sharper your going to need to be in your business. It's certainly not going to make life easier and odds are your going to be working a little bit harder for the money. Educating the customer only goes so far when in relation to price. For me personally I had to change up the way I market my business entirely to make things work and close work for what I feel its worth. At this stage it's far for the better but it wasn't without alot of headaches along the way.
 
Back around 2006, Chris Tucker said: "This is insanity" Talking about free information. I think it was on The Grime Scene.
I have commented on this subject many times. My feeling on this is about "TRADING" information, not just educating(AKA: Giving Away Information) to those who I have no idea of their character. I honestly haven't any interest helping someone get started in this business. I think alot of these guys wouldn't do this work if they had to learn it on their own.
In an ideal setting, only those who have started their business and ran it for a year or two would be able to read these boards.(Not possible I know). I visit these boards to SHARE information with others,..and I guess lurkers are always gonna see this stuff. But hey,what do ya' do.

I personally don't believe in the whole educating everyone aspect,..I couldn't care less if the "other" guys are doing it wrong,..my only concern is my own service and making a name for myself and my business as,.."the guy to call because he knows what he's doing". I've seen many cleaners come and go in my region because they didn't provide an acceptable service,..and I'm glad they're gone,..it's up to me to make MY business an accepted service in my region.

Jeff
 
814jeffw said:
Back around 2006, Chris Tucker said: "This is insanity" Talking about free information. I think it was on The Grime Scene.
I have commented on this subject many times. My feeling on this is about "TRADING" information, not just educating(AKA: Giving Away Information) to those who I have no idea of their character. I honestly haven't any interest helping someone get started in this business. I think alot of these guys wouldn't do this work if they had to learn it on their own.
In an ideal setting, only those who have started their business and ran it for a year or two would be able to read these boards.(Not possible I know). I visit these boards to SHARE information with others,..and I guess lurkers are always gonna see this stuff. But hey,what do ya' do.

I personally don't believe in the whole educating everyone aspect,..I couldn't care less if the "other" guys are doing it wrong,..my only concern is my own service and making a name for myself and my business as,.."the guy to call because he knows what he's doing". I've seen many cleaners come and go in my region because they didn't provide an acceptable service,..and I'm glad they're gone,..it's up to me to make MY business an accepted service in my region.

Jeff
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+1000 There is so much information our there if the "new " guy would use the search button!
i have read and talked with other contractors who say they don't mind helping some one if they are not in their area. Well guess what they are in someones area.
A couple of years ago a helped a contractor out who was getting into roof cleaning. Talked to him on the phone for almost a hour,
a few days later he was on the boards asking way the roof wasn't coming clean when he down streamed his solution on. This is after I explained he needed a dedicated pump to aplly the mix. Yes i even told him what brand of pump and where to buy one.
After that I stopped giving out information, if they are to lazy to do some research and search the boards.
 
It seems to be a cleaning industry thing to hate on the new guys. Some come in and have an arrogant attitude so they bring it on themselves but we were all there at one time and I'm betting we had people who shared with us to shorten our learning curve. The problem with the "let them figure it out on there own" mentality is that in the mean time it damages the reputation of the industry. And if it happens enough in your area no one will give you a chance to "prove" you aren't like the others. They begin to lump all together and figure it's better to do it themselves. Helping new ones helps you in the long run.
 
Hey Tony, yes I was there when I had information to share, not by design but because I didn't have the internet until 2005 and I started my business in 1996. So yes, I did come on the sites to gain information, but I was also able to share with others instead of just take. The industry argument is the one that always comes up, but trying to put a good image on the industry also makes for alot of guys with good intentions knowingly doing it wrong anyhow.

The industry isn't going to be saved by these boards,..the members on these boards make up a small percent of the actually out there doing it. If the industry fails as a whole, then it fails,..but my service as it stands will be fine, as I'm sure many others' here will be no matter how the service is looked upon.

But I sure as heck don't want to be partially responsible for putting guys into business that wouldn't be doing it otherwise,...we just make it convenient for people to jump in and say,.."Ah, what the hey, seems simple enough" Then because due to lack of "quality control" they cause a lot of bad feelings amongst their customers (AKA: victims). By the number of people who have come and gone, I'm sure there has been as many people doing damage to the industry as it has helped. For someone only interested in making fast money, these boards provide enough information for them to be dangerous,...is that good for the industry?

I benefit by the guys who start up and fail, A little competition is good,..but after while it would be saturated and then we would all be bottom feeders.

Jeff
 
814jeffw said:
Hey Tony, yes I was there when I had information to share, not by design but because I didn't have the internet until 2005 and I started my business in 1996. So yes, I did come on the sites to gain information, but I was also able to share with others instead of just take. The industry argument is the one that always comes up, but trying to put a good image on the industry also makes for alot of guys with good intentions knowingly doing it wrong anyhow.

The industry isn't going to be saved by these boards,..the members on these boards make up a small percent of the actually out there doing it. If the industry fails as a whole, then it fails,..but my service as it stands will be fine, as I'm sure many others' here will be no matter how the service is looked upon.

But I sure as heck don't want to be partially responsible for putting guys into business that wouldn't be doing it otherwise,...we just make it convenient for people to jump in and say,.."Ah, what the hey, seems simple enough" Then because due to lack of "quality control" they cause a lot of bad feelings amongst their customers (AKA: victims). By the number of people who have come and gone, I'm sure there has been as many people doing damage to the industry as it has helped. For someone only interested in making fast money, these boards provide enough information for them to be dangerous,...is that good for the industry?

I benefit by the guys who start up and fail, A little competition is good,..but after while it would be saturated and then we would all be bottom feeders.

Jeff
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Its not easy, you shouldn't get in unless your serious about perfecting the Craft and holding standards. I agree in the past we all said its just squirting water.

Truthfully this business isn't easy to be a huge success, yeah a guy can get in low over head use junk to work with. Reality is that he will only attract those type of consumers and lower the standards and price over all.

We all should shoot higher than to be a Billy Bob or a Jimbo. Please no offense to either guy with that name. Or the South

I train all the guys in my area give them leads and jobs. Not once has this had any bad effect, I have lost Jobs to all of them I'm sure of it.

If I lost the job I deserved to loose it, or I got it back if they couldn't maintain it as well as I did.

I can't win every customer or every Battle.

Together we have built a market, I even get calls from competitors thanking me. they say hey thanks for making all these places realize they need regular service. They say often but us on the program propowerwash Says we need. I love hearing that.
 
I would be curious to know how many thousands over the years have come on these boards for info then quit because they realize you can't have a sustainable business without a substantial investment in time and money. Many of the guys who invested the money never invested the effort as proven by the hundreds who have been on the boards who are no longer in business.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk
 
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