Jeff LeCours Reply from PTstate

Ron Musgraves

Ron Musgraves

Exterior Restoration Specialist
Staff member
The way I look at it is we share WAY to Much info in our industry, we are killing ourselves. We have been doing it now for several years. I think I have heard hardly any other industry shares like we do. Basically cutting our OWN throats. BBS, RT's NETWORKING I think we all fed ourselves a bunch of crap thinking its helping the industry. I think its creating more competition for ourselves. All the lookers who never post are taking our ideas strategies everything and getting work we could have gotten. People on these BB's and RT's can learn it all.

Tell you the truth if there was never another RT and all BB's were taken off I think we would all be better off, even new companies, because only the smart new companies would survive and grow and there would be HALF as many people starting in PWing biz, because they couldn't find the right way to do things at their finger tips.

So many wouldn't try and so many more wouldn't last but a few months

Mike you teach how to get better web ranking I showed people how to target condos, others show how to clean faster, better the list goes on. All us big mouths have cut our own throats I see now. Why is it that we help others, is it the good thing to do?
huh.gif
It sure isn't the smart thing to do.
Click to expand...


Jeff,

We disagree on this one, to prove my point I will find competitors that have called me and only together we have better the market. I win some and loose some, but we all have raised the standards together.

Its a shame we as independant business people have to carve our own market and we dont have a real org after 20 years.

Plus Jeff, I have learned from you and you have bettered yourself from stuff i have shared.

I can tell you about one thing that was stupid you said in Bama and its made me way more money than any hack has beaten me out of. ( thanks)

It sucks educating the customers on our own, I do because it has to be done. Its and important proccess about my selling. Its the hack card if you want to call it that.

Thats kinda funny, pull the HACK card on the customer. LOL

Everything I do in a roundabout way says heres my service better and superior than anyones. ( best part the price is FAIR)

Why because we explain that your buying time, our methods are better and cost effective. Best part is our costs analization show them our HACk will not complete the job they are promising. We do not bash we just give them the black and white numbers.

I print pricelist for my phx competition and tell GM's please give them this pricelist when they come in. I truly want them to see it. If I hear of a new guy that is cutting or slashing prices i will mail him mine. I want him to know he can get more for his work. Mostly that if he keeps it up he will be gone in when the money runs out from his 401k.

I will educate anyone that wants to listen and tell them how to do it.

competition I can beat, lowballer that run below profit until they run out of money hurt the industry. ( some customers prey on them) I have this list!!

I have less problems with this now than 10 years ago....I changed my attitude. Make your own market, work with new guys and at least clue them in on what it takes.
 
I can see both sides to this argument.

Ron, do you think there's a difference in opinions due to a difference in business?

For instance, if you loose a contract due to competition that you may have "educated" in some way - it's probably not a huge deal because of the amount of work you own.

That may not be the case for everybody. There's people who simply lurk on forums - they only take - and give nothing in return. These people then use the information they've learned (information that maybe took years to learn for the original poster through trial and error) to compete.
 
WeWashConcrete said:
I can see both sides to this argument.

Ron, do you think there's a difference in opinions due to a difference in business?

For instance, if you loose a contract due to competition that you may have "educated" in some way - it's probably not a huge deal because of the amount of work you own.

That may not be the case for everybody. There's people who simply lurk on forums - they only take - and give nothing in return. These people then use the information they've learned (information that maybe took years to learn for the original poster through trial and error) to compete.
Click to expand...

Whos easier to compete with? Ask yourself that question...
 
I think more along the lines of Ron.. thus my site.. (I'm not going to put it so you know I'm not going for link juice)

Most of the guys I help with my site seem to want to help others do the right thing and so on. There are a few things that I don't share, but other than that, somebody paying $20K to learn what I can teach them in a short video for $39.. please! If it weren't for help I received from Matt, I would have never been the cleaner I have become. He took a big chance on me since I'm in his backyard, but all it did was raise the quality around here and raise the prices in the area. Win/win.
 
But for every "GOOD" contractor that comes from the great information on these boards, how many "not so good" contractors are taught how to cut throats? Is there anyway of knowing?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.. I'm personally all for the forums. But I've personally decided to really restrict what information I freely distribute to people I don't know.
 
Great info guys!

Thanks.
 
If one is worried of information getting out, I got news for you the cat is out of the bag already.

I would concede that BB's have made it easier for many.

I've got calls from many thanking me for something I posted that helped them. More times than not I've done nothing more than regurgitate what I've picked up here (meaning BB's).
 
HotShot_Anthony said:
I think more along the lines of Ron.. thus my site.. (I'm not going to put it so you know I'm not going for link juice)

Most of the guys I help with my site seem to want to help others do the right thing and so on. There are a few things that I don't share, but other than that, somebody paying $20K to learn what I can teach them in a short video for $39.. please! If it weren't for help I received from Matt, I would have never been the cleaner I have become. He took a big chance on me since I'm in his backyard, but all it did was raise the quality around here and raise the prices in the area. Win/win.
Click to expand...

Yes, and the more guys at a higher level the easier it is to eliminate hacks. If more than one contractor telling customers the right way they buy it.

Pravo!!
 
WeWashConcrete said:
But for every "GOOD" contractor that comes from the great information on these boards, how many "not so good" contractors are taught how to cut throats? Is there anyway of knowing?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.. I'm personally all for the forums. But I've personally decided to really restrict what information I freely distribute to people I don't know.
Click to expand...
Bad business people will exist regardless. Again if we can out number and the message is clear from the pros they carry no weight. Hacks truly have no effect on my model. It's a solid teaching and education machine.

Those customers that buy a hacks lower pricing will be back. My theory is I try to prevent them from making the mistake. The hillbilly hack will always exist. Thru all of us sticking together we can beat them easier.

It's s shame our orgs don't have better awareness campaigns. This has to be Done by a few in a market. But if contractors stick together the market can stay strong. It doesn't require a 100 %
 
Kory said:
It's the Internet as a whole, look at printing companies the Internet has driven the price way down.
Click to expand...

Nothing to do with web except the web allowed the communication to allow the technological advances of printing out faster to the public. What has lowered prices in printing are better machines and ink prices being reduced. These machines has taken labor costs away by being automated.

Super information highway , get on it or be wiped out.,
 
The internet has lowered prices by making every one compete against everyone in the printing business. It is no longer a regional or city competitor thing. When buying anything now I go straight to the web and are comparing companies from NY to CA.

In my other profession the two biggest retailers for our products are only on the internet and did not exist 10 years ago. Pioneers came in saw the opportunity and changed the industry.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
It's s shame our orgs don't have better awareness campaigns. This has to be Done by a few in a market. But if contractors stick together the market can stay strong.
Click to expand...


I agree.....100%

The saddest part is that we are not really talking about a huge expense. In fact, it's just a matter of focusing the attention of the army of environmentally conscience consumers....a nudge here, a donation there, a bit of community service over there.....

The combined efforts of the Gov agency's, our orgs, the vendors and piles of regulation can't accomplish 1/100th of what a profit motive will......public awareness is the key. Right now, all the energy is focused on educating and policing the pressure washer.....and it's like a broken record Hey, I GET IT!!!

Personally, I don't have any interest in spawning my own org but since there isn't one doing what needs done, I'm forced to go it alone in my market. Time will tell.......
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Nothing to do with web except the web allowed the communication to allow the technological advances of printing out faster to the public. What has lowered prices in printing are better machines and ink prices being reduced. These machines has taken labor costs away by being automated.

Super information highway , get on it or be wiped out.,
Click to expand...

Let me clarify a little better. Business is easier as knowledge is readily available for any industry not just ours. The web makes it easier to get into and get more business faster than ever. You can't beat it get a head of it or get left behind.

You can learn to work on your truck and fix everything on ford forums. Do you think mechanics like that.
 
Ohio pressure wash said:
I agree.....100%

The saddest part is that we are not really talking about a huge expense. In fact, it's just a matter of focusing the attention of the army of environmentally conscience consumers....a nudge here, a donation there, a bit of community service over there.....

The combined efforts of the Gov agency's, our orgs, the vendors and piles of regulation can't accomplish 1/100th of what a profit motive will......public awareness is the key. Right now, all the energy is focused on educating and policing the pressure washer.....and it's like a broken record Hey, I GET IT!!!

Personally, I don't have any interest in spawning my own org but since there isn't one doing what needs done, I'm forced to go it alone in my market. Time will tell.......
Click to expand...

Your alone, if you team up with responsible business people like other tradesmens of cleaning arts together your efforts can be strong.

If your the only contractor blowing the horn the hack will discredit you. Together we stand and divided will fall.

If you only have three or four of the guys you bid with saying the same message the hack will not stand a chance.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
If your the only contractor blowing the horn the hack will discredit you. Together we stand and divided will fall.
Click to expand...


I don't plan on blowing any horn.....

Ron, we've spoke about this before. I don't need to discredit the hack if the system rejects the hack.

Parent's won't buy a used crib if they are not 100% sure that it doesn't have lead paint. this came from public awareness. Look around.....the whole nation is being greened. Hell, we are right in the middle of NBC Green Week.

I know it sounds like pushing a mountain but it's not.....the momentum is there, the desire is there, there are already legs on the ground.

Like I've been saying.....PW'ers need to step outside of the box and flush the groupthink. We are not the problem, we are the solution. We need to purge the words "cosmetic cleaner" from every org, website and publication. According to the EPA, we are in the pollution cleaning business......a promotion up from janitor....oops, I mean cosmetic cleaner.
 
Education is key to improving our industry and the bottom line. I would say every industry has a standard price, those that are good at selling and that offer a great service will sell above the standard, everyone else will be at or below.

For example, I would say that ON AVERAGE most legit pressure washing companies will hit around $100 an hour. I also sweep as well and I would say that ON AVERAGE most sweeping companies are hitting around $55 an hour.

The sweeping industry had lots of info but not many people participate in the forums or contribute to furthering education. Look at this forum that Ron created. I am sure that this site has made Ron and all of us a great deal more.

I for one am all about eduacation. We need to educate our customers, our competition, and ourselves.
 
Thanks Adam , if you take one idea or thought your ahead of the curve. Setting standards is what I like to do. If it helps the rest of the industry that's great.

dbgpowerwash said:
Education is key to improving our industry and the bottom line. I would say every industry has a standard price, those that are good at selling and that offer a great service will sell above the standard, everyone else will be at or below.

For example, I would say that ON AVERAGE most legit pressure washing companies will hit around $100 an hour. I also sweep as well and I would say that ON AVERAGE most sweeping companies are hitting around $55 an hour.

The sweeping industry had lots of info but not many people participate in the forums or contribute to furthering education. Look at this forum that Ron created. I am sure that this site has made Ron and all of us a great deal more.

I for one am all about eduacation. We need to educate our customers, our competition, and ourselves.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top