mbryan
New member
You have to get a permit to clean the hood ($35) and wait for the Fire Department to inspect every job. I wonder if this is the direction our industry is going in.
HOOD CLEANING PERMIT
HOOD CLEANING PERMIT
Imagine if you lived in this city
- Thread starter mbryan
- Start date
David Saulque
Senior Moderator
The fee is one thing, but the after cleaning inspection is simply ridiculous. That would turn a $350 job into $800 in second. Another issue is that is $35 per hood. Three hoods in a account, just $105
I am just glad that we don't have account in that city. Coming to a city near you. Just another example of government going out of control.
In a large city I would think that the Fire Inspectors would be overwhelmed by the number of jobs to inspect.
David
I am just glad that we don't have account in that city. Coming to a city near you. Just another example of government going out of control.
In a large city I would think that the Fire Inspectors would be overwhelmed by the number of jobs to inspect.
David
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Douglas Hicks
Member
In theory this sounds like a good idea, inspections by a knowlagable third jparty. But, How long before the inspector shows up, is he qualified, will he actually look at all areas, will he show upon time? When defieccies are pointed out, will there be any follow-up?
Has any one in this city thought about the extra cost to the resturant owner? The cost has just increased by $35.00 + the increased time because of the 2nd call to the resturant, the waiting time and the cost of opening access panels twice. Don't forget the down time while the inspection is going on. The time to clean the exhasust system just went up because of the increase in clening standards. That burned on carbon is a real time factor, and does not increase the fire danger.
I expect this came about there just may be some hood cleaners who are not doing a good job.
Anybody on the board who works in this area that can report the results of this action by the city?
Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
Has any one in this city thought about the extra cost to the resturant owner? The cost has just increased by $35.00 + the increased time because of the 2nd call to the resturant, the waiting time and the cost of opening access panels twice. Don't forget the down time while the inspection is going on. The time to clean the exhasust system just went up because of the increase in clening standards. That burned on carbon is a real time factor, and does not increase the fire danger.
I expect this came about there just may be some hood cleaners who are not doing a good job.
Anybody on the board who works in this area that can report the results of this action by the city?
Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
David Saulque
Senior Moderator
This would be like having the Highway Patrol check new brake jobs on trucks. This is simple government job building.
Michael T
Member
Are there any PW associates who frequent these boards who have done business in Brooklyn Park MN? How about someone in Minneapolis? Im just interested. There is easier $$$ to be made.
What about the restaurant owner who cant get service because no contractors want to go thru the Burocratic BS.
What about the restaurant owner who cant get service because no contractors want to go thru the Burocratic BS.
David Saulque
Senior Moderator
From what I can tell, the town is very small with under five food service units. Still not a good idea.
David Saulque
Senior Moderator
They need one or even two-single man????
John is right. The 'certifications' I have seen indicate cleaning to NFPA Standards. I am not sure I have ever seen a restaurant completely in compliance with the NFPA Standards, and yet that is the level of expectation. Only Rusty's 'grads' have that ability. The demands in the permit are impossible - i.e., they expect the "appliances" serviced and "seven working days prior..." notice! How many of you schedule with certainty 1&1/2 weeks prior? We 'calendar' a given week and then call the location on the afternoon of the day we decide to do the job. It works for us.
Richard
Richard
David Saulque
Senior Moderator
I am unclear as to why this has anything to do with certification-it has to do with government growth and the total self absorbed idea of protection from everything.
David,
They go hand-in-hand. The minute certifying requirements are imposed you give license to the regulatory body to stipulate whatever requirements they desire. I have been licensed (in another field) multi-state and spent more than 30 years in my practice. I know what it is to see the bar raised higher and higher each passing year. It becomes unbearable, and serves no purpose other than to discourage superior people. The same thing easily could happen in our field. You won't like it. I am glad that I am at the nether end of work life, but still I would resist both licensing and certification.
Richard
They go hand-in-hand. The minute certifying requirements are imposed you give license to the regulatory body to stipulate whatever requirements they desire. I have been licensed (in another field) multi-state and spent more than 30 years in my practice. I know what it is to see the bar raised higher and higher each passing year. It becomes unbearable, and serves no purpose other than to discourage superior people. The same thing easily could happen in our field. You won't like it. I am glad that I am at the nether end of work life, but still I would resist both licensing and certification.
Richard
David Saulque
Senior Moderator
Cut me a little slack, I live in the most regulated state with the highest worker comp rates and I have been fighting government regulation all my life. Knowledge and government rules are not the same issue. What would our roadways be without basic laws and regulator instruments of policy.
Our problem is that we are in the middle and we are nether fish nor fowl. We service a customer so that his insurance company will not have to pay for a fire event. The insurance company should give us a rebate not a bill.
The California State Contractor License is a state public reference system and a basic bench mark of standards. Certification in hood cleaning is just a basic standard and nothing more. It says to me that this person has certain basic skills and knowledge. Nothing more and nothing less, and those questions should be asked at the get-go.
If you were a cleaner in that town, you could turn that program into gold. But first you need a plan and way to market your skills and knowledge to the AHJ.
Our problem is that we are in the middle and we are nether fish nor fowl. We service a customer so that his insurance company will not have to pay for a fire event. The insurance company should give us a rebate not a bill.
The California State Contractor License is a state public reference system and a basic bench mark of standards. Certification in hood cleaning is just a basic standard and nothing more. It says to me that this person has certain basic skills and knowledge. Nothing more and nothing less, and those questions should be asked at the get-go.
If you were a cleaner in that town, you could turn that program into gold. But first you need a plan and way to market your skills and knowledge to the AHJ.
Douglas Hicks
Member
David is right, certification , or lisensure is a bench mark of what the certificate holder knows. Certifacation or lisensure is not an indication of what the certificate holder actually does.
But I am still in favor of a meaningfull certification or lisence. But that needs to be followed up by meaningfull & realistic inspections, by people who know and care what is being inspected. My experience is that most inspectors do not have the knowledge to inspect my work. In fact, very little of my suppression work is inspected by knowlegdable inspectors. I do not expect exhaust system service would be any different.
Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastertn Oregon, Inc
But I am still in favor of a meaningfull certification or lisence. But that needs to be followed up by meaningfull & realistic inspections, by people who know and care what is being inspected. My experience is that most inspectors do not have the knowledge to inspect my work. In fact, very little of my suppression work is inspected by knowlegdable inspectors. I do not expect exhaust system service would be any different.
Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastertn Oregon, Inc
I certainly would agree with both viewpoints - IF we lived in a perfect world. Problem is - the appointed inspector (probably by the DOI) would be given a hat reading something like 'Chief Inspector'. If you have ever done servicing after a fire, with fire inspectors hovering over you, you then have some idea of what can happen. When an ordinary man, who previously may have been barely mediocre, is suddenly appointed 'Chief', you then have a monster. It may be the only place in life in which he has both respect and authority. Now he is the 'Chief'. A dangerous combination. All you can do is pray that such a person is not appointed in your area.
There is an alternative already in place. An insurance carrier cannot give a rebate - rebating is an illegal practice in all 46 states and 4 commonwealths, which has been upheld in all 13 circuit courts, however all large carriers do have saftey engineers and inspectors. Why not implore the DOI (Dept of Ins) in your state to include exhaust systems in their insections? They really do not now do so - the work we do is considered a minor component of operations and has slipped through the cracks. If the burden were placed upon them we would not then be bothered with all the froth coming from all these 'certification schools'. They can do it - they have the money!
Richard
There is an alternative already in place. An insurance carrier cannot give a rebate - rebating is an illegal practice in all 46 states and 4 commonwealths, which has been upheld in all 13 circuit courts, however all large carriers do have saftey engineers and inspectors. Why not implore the DOI (Dept of Ins) in your state to include exhaust systems in their insections? They really do not now do so - the work we do is considered a minor component of operations and has slipped through the cracks. If the burden were placed upon them we would not then be bothered with all the froth coming from all these 'certification schools'. They can do it - they have the money!
Richard