If you had a magic????

ron p/tim

are you a pro bike builder?
In NJ if your not it's a HUGE pain in the butt to get a handbuilt bike reg.
Cant say that i like your choice of chrome over billet alum.
I hate chrome but i also live 3 blocks from the sea and 1 block from the salt water inlet.
Brown's is the only co. that still dose good quality plateing.
I will give you 2 big thumb's up for building your own bike.
Harley has sold out all the guy's that kept them in buiss. in the lean years.
Over 60% of a new harley is made in japan.
If you ever get a look at the part's catolog in a harley dealership
you will see the diffrent prices and an letter after or before each part. One is the cheapo jap crap,one is better quailty jap crap,and one is US[if they even have it in US].
$75 PER HOUR TO WORK ON A BIKE AND $30 TEE SHIRTS.
$18,000.00 FOR A 2 CYL.
I own 3 custom shovels and dont have $18,000 invested in all 3.
Have you see the bike where the guy invented a bike with NO SWINGARM! Looks like the rear wheel is held on by the just the belt.
Ever hear of EXILE motorcycle co.
That's my style if i had the money.
check it out. use google.com.
 
You guys are making my cry. I had to sell my 97 custom road king two years ago due to financial difficulties, custom from head to toe. I agree that Harley isn't what it used to be. There are many other American Made bikes out there now so, it doesn't have to be a Harley anymore.
check out www.bigbearchoppers.com
 
NO it doesn't have to be a Harley any more. Victory is coming on hard as is American Ironhorse. The new motor for the Indian Chief is something to look at!

here, hopefully will be my new Victory in March.

Reed
 

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Mike hit the nail right on the head. The PWNA is made up of volunteers that have businesses to run also. What are they supposed to do? They hav eno choice but to prioritize and use what time may be left to do volunteer work. This is exactly why I say waht I do when I say that it will take all of us working together for the betterment of the organization to make a difference. If everyone donated a few hours of time, or volunteered to serve on a committee or to do something, then we would be a whole lot farther down the road than we are.

Sitting back and expecting to not have to participate is kind of like expecting the contry to remain in good shape if you don't vote and are not an active citizen.

Just my .02 worth...

Beth
 
Ok Harley guys I have my insurance in order so ready for your attack here.

Harley's like all bikes are no longer 100% American made, American assemblied yes, but check where lots of those parts are manufactured, overseas.

Not knocking the bike, it will probably be around forever.

But let me say not even the American auto is totally American anymore, more and more parts are imported, such a shame but at the same time look at all the Japanese auto companies building cars here now.

Let me see, Chrysler is not even American owned, Ford owns Jag, Volvo and other companies.

That is part of our countries problem, more and more businesses are no longer owned by Americans but overseas corproates, that should not be allowed.

What ever happened to the saying " built by Americans for Americans"? no longer can that be said.

Enough of my ramblings here.
 
Jon,

Unfortunately there are a lot of sides to that story.
Americans also own and run a lot of business all over the world.
You can't have a one way street. I think we tried that during the Isolationism Era and it didn't work well at all. Besides, you think prices are expensive now - without Japan, Europe and South America along with 3rd world country products, our prices would be double or triple on a lot of things. Competition keeps costs down.

American manufacturing refused to heed the Deming philosophy.
Deming went to Japan where the Japanese took it head on, understood it and used it to surpass American product quality. America's response to quality was increased import and excise tax to make the Japanese products higher priced figuring the public would go for the fake.
People wanted quality, not just low cost. I owned at least 3 American made auto's that the engines failed before 90K miles due to poor engineering and manufacturing practices. Took the American auto industry 15 years (kicking and whinning to adapt stricter quality controls in manufacturing). Low and behold they are now the biggest advocates of Deming philosophies (like it was their baby) along with ISO 9000, etc..

Harley is the same way - 25 years ago you asked most of the bikers what their major gripe was and the common answer was leaking oil. Most of the bikers in my area HAD to work on their bikes every winter just so it would run thru the summer.

From '69-'81 AMF owned Harley. Harley ownes American Rambler motor homes and Buell motorcycle company. In '60 Harley purchased Aeronatica Macchi of Europe for their single cycle engines. Harley Davidson is now manufacturing and assembling bikes and components in 11 other countries besides the US.
I would think that was an equitable trade off for the US.
They could have turned it around sooner, but going public and the competition kept it from going out of business.

Who do you think makes the lowest quality portable telephones - American MA Bell - The highest quality is Panasonic, parts made in Asia units assembled in the US.


Regards,
 
Beth,

Have you looked at the PWNA web site?
If you have, what's missing from it?
And what do you think about it?
I think it has some major basic flaws. In my opinion it does more harm than good right now the way it sits.

I also agree with Ron P. that $250 entry fee is somewhat on the steep side for a lot of P/W's, especially since most might only use it once a year for the convention and a few misc. things. Most trade shows and conventions offer free or low price invitations. I get FREE tickets from the Masonry and Converting shows all the time. They make the booths and advertisers pay for most of the cost.
- Food and drinks are money makers.
- Need to have some merchandise to sell - books, videos, money making tips, etc., etc., etc..
- Need to find sponsors and solicit donations (tit for tat).
- Get vendors to donate products that can be traded for donations. Vendors can write off donations

We belong to a builders association that reduces our Worker's Comp. rate, offers low cost health and life insurance, we also get free advertising and referrals plus customer lists, vendors offer discounts to members, etc. all for $125 a year.

- As for the volunteers - everyone should be working off a priority list that was agreed to and generated by the entire group. The priority needs to follow the 20/80 rule. Address only the most impacting issues first. Schedule all tasks and have teams working items. Try to create teams by regions rather than accross country.
I hope the volunteers get some free perks like free membership, or free convention admittance.

- I think Joe Walters alone should have a list of P/W names for a decent size mailing list. Trading with a few vendors can increase that list. (It would help to get the correct targets - next to last mailing was for a window washing and safety seminar - wasted papers on me and how many others.)
- A newsletter is a must - it can generate a large sum of money from advertisers. The subscription rate can and needs to be kept very low to obtain high circulation rate - which advertisers like.

Regards,
 
Mike H.

I think you missed the messages from both Tim and Mike C. and a few others.

- The benefits are not clear for most - check out the PWNA web site. Look in detail for what PWNA offers. Look at the photos from a 3rd party perspective.

- $1000 is not pocket change for most people and $250 can purchase a lot of products that are tangible.
($1000 will buy me a round trip ticket, meals and drinks for 4 days 3 nights in the Bahamas.) or ($1000 will buy me a decent surface cleaner an X-Jet and 55 gallons of detergent cleaner).

- Most people would like to have their business grow but how will that come from the PWNA in what format other than rubbing elbows with the same people that they now communicate on the BB's. The sellers have 6:1 or more benefits - is their membership cost $1500+?

Until you can understand the customers you are trying to reach, you will struggle to succeed.


Regards,
 
Paul ..... aka "sly-fox"

I agree with ya man I agree. ... You said in your post what I have been thinking all-along .... but I cant word it quite like you ... well said ....... I think it's all a hipe and a money getter ... for some-body ..................... and it's really okay if people dont agree .............really it is ~!~
 
Until people (customers) start to realize that power washing is more than just someone buying a powerwasher and cleaning their house, is when being a member of an orginization will mean something. I don't think people take power washing as a trade like other home improvement contractors.

I don't see someone picking me over someone else because of a PWNA logo on their business card.

Most people just want the best price.

Maybe one day people will see that it takes more than just owning a washer to be legitimate contractor.

The PWNA needs to get the word out that their members are the best in the business.

Maybe by showing the customer that you had to take a test or showing a certificate of some sort will help spread the word that being a member means the difference between you and someone who is not a member.
 
Have you ever asked the ones you have LOST to why you did? Is it always price?

I'm not saying we have won business due soley to the PWNA logo, but I will say it has helped. I have seen the looks, gotten questions, etc.

Now Paul, you ought to know better than to ask me about a web site. :)

I agree that $250.00 is high. And, I agree about the conference fees.

Beth
 
The customer needs to know the difference between not being a member and being one.
Untill than, I dont see being a member really makes a differance.

I'm not putting down the PWNA. I just need more for my money.

I think in time it will, but give me something to work with now, I need something to show for my $250.00.
 
Paul B. I understand well all what you have said about quality etc. When we used to buy Japanese cars we insisted it be a 100% import and not one made here, there are a few ways to tell, one check the battery, if Japanese it is imported, if American it is not, then the plate on the door has all the codes, ask the salesperson to tell you by that code where the car was built, he will say in Japan, ask for proof and he changes the subject.

As for AMC owning Harley, yes and they screwed it up so bad they were more then happy to sell it back to the family and since then it has become a much better bike, but it has to vibrate or the females won't ride on it!! I am not knocking the fact a lot of the parts are imported, it makes for a better machine indeed as do those imported parts in other products.

As to American companies vs. foreign companies owning businesses here, I understand that too but if things keep up as they are almost all major businesses will be owned by them. I do believe there has to be a limit as to how many and what types can be sold to other then American people.

One of the largest super markets in the West is owned by one of the wealthiest Mexican families. Auto Nation is too but he lives in Florida now.

As to the PWNA web site, the old one listed all members and sponsors, also state by state pressure washers, the new one list NOTHING and that should be the very first thing they change and change it now.

The cost to go to a convention is high yes, I would think it should be an all inclusive price, meaning pay the cost to go and it includes any and all seminars you want to attend.

Reason they charge is the speakers get paid to speak, if I am right they get free room and food too but don't quote me on that.

Another rule should be on the raffle give away no sponsor should be allowed to win a prize, sure they can buy tickets and if their number is drawn they would throw the prize back in for another to win.

I did see that happen at the last convention in Las Vegas, at least one did anyway, I think the other kept his prize.

I have said before and will again, if they lower the cost to join I think more would join, say $100 a year and if they get 1000 or more members it is more money for them.

Joe Walters has a list but would he share it?

The IRS wants a list so we can all get audited, what other reason would they be there for? Tax advice, well we have accountants for that, or most of us do anyway.

Don't get me wrong they might be there for a worthy cause, I just don't trust them personally is all.

Ok enough for now.

Ramblin Jon
 
On the price thingy I wouldn't join nomatter if it was 25 or 5 dallors,I have no need for its importances.Also I think the 250 is to keep out the riftraft,anybody that cann't afford to atten aren't in the big circle or do not want to be in that circle,they have what they want or can get what they want.

I can read the epa rules for each area,I do not think they need someone in our trade telling how to do their jobs,making the customer aware of the rules as to your way of washing is more important than someone telling me I need to tell the customer.I see the pwna doing more damage to the small business man as to helping him,I'm not againest the group and their needs.Altho several groups have make a hurt on our life as it is today which may be the reason why so may how days are againest any group hallowering we can make it better.Guess we could all go to Mexico as others have left the groups behind as their voice in bettering things ran the business south with our money.

A farmer gets 3 cents for the amount of grain it takes to make a loaf of bread,they are to many groups inbetween him and us as the bread is to high as in the cost of the grain,do you recken he gets enough to cover the cost in growing the grain,they are saling out by the 100's ever year b/c the answer is no.Their group is only getting bigger as the small guy loses his way of life as the bread will get higher as in biggger groups eating smaller groups as in its the way of life in America.
 
Jon,

The speakers are NOT paid. I am not being paid. We are paying to attend. We are paying our room and food etc. I received a letter from PWNA today which reads and I quote:

"Thanks for volunteering your time and talents to make a presentation at the 2002 Fall Technical."

From there it tells us where to go to register and where the rooms are for our presentations.

Just wanted to share. :)

Beth
 
paul B,you are a very intelligent individual,you derived from my post that i as a consumer have the money to spend as obvious from all the money i distribute on a monthly basis,but somehow feel motorcycle parts (tangible products) are more important than attending a pwna convention.
as a standpoint from the PWNA to make the contractor feel there money would be better spent on a tangible product such as a TV versus something that is beneficial to there buisness is an issue they need to take seriously.
 
Paul B.-
Very well said.
Also, do you mind me asking which buiders assoc. it is. I would like to join one also here in N.E. Ohio, maybe you can get referal points?
 
Paul,
It is awesome to know that someone else knows about Deming. I believe that most Americans and American Companies STILL don't understand his philosophies. Japan doesn't name their top business award after him for nothing. Before he went to Japan and led that revitalization , we in America rejected his ideas. Basically, the Japanese believe in "Kaizen", which means , "continuous improvement." Unfortunately I still believe that most American companies still believe in innovation and invention. Japan, always look for ways to improve. United States, "if it ain't broke"

I am a member of the PWNA and recognize and agree with most of the oppinions shared here. Hopefullly other members will read these type of responses and collectively make up their minds to find ways to improve. I personally believe waiting for it to "break" is the wrong path and in the long run will hurt the industry instead of what I believe they want which is to help the industry.

Just to back this up I have previously corresponded to Michael Hinderliter and will see him in Pittsburgh to discuss a plan that I believe will make a difference.These were bruoght together by a collection of individuals at our roundtable meeting. Individuals , members, and non-members voices are what make up the whole and should be heard. My two cents.
 
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