EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution

[Guy Blackmon]

Ok, honest question ...... is that a fact? I dont know? I am asking, not calling you out John, I just wonder if that is factual??? I have no idea!

Tell ya what Russ....I'll bet my bank account against John T's that it's many,many times that. In fact it's my understanding that Doug signed 20+ new (Paying) Members at AC's show this weekend.

Put your money where your mouth is John....I'm all in!!!!!

 

[Guy Blackmon]

How about You Guy answer this one question which should make some of your above questions easier to figure out yourself.

You belong to the UAMCC which is a National org. You tell anyone that's listens that your org represents the contractors.
So how does that make sense then when you only have 11 paid members??

John, I wasn't talking to you Buddy, I was talking to Robert. As soon as he answers my questions, I'll answer yours.

 

[Robert Hinderliter]

John, I wasn't talking to you Buddy, I was talking to Robert. As soon as he answers my questions, I'll answer yours.

Guy:

The best emotion that I can work up where you are concerned is to "Feel Sorry for You".

 

[offdutyfireman]

Robert, he was not asking for an emotion. He was asking for an answer. Maybe that has been the problem the whole time. He has not been asking in terminology simple enough for you to understand.

 

[Guy Blackmon]

Guy:

The best emotion that I can work up where you are concerned is to "Feel Sorry for You".

Thank you Mr. Hinderliter, I guess all I can say to that is...I feel sorry for those that actually think you have helped our Industry & it's image through your work with the EPA.

On a personal note...I think you're a good man & a nice person, away from our Industry.

 

[Tony Shelton]

Been gone most of the evening. Did I miss anything?

 

[Ohio pressure wash]

How about You Guy answer this one question which should make some of your above questions easier to figure out yourself.

You belong to the UAMCC which is a National org. You tell anyone that's listens that your org represents the contractors.
So how does that make sense then when you only have 11 paid members??

That doesn't even make sense....Are you saying the only members are the BOD?


If there are hundreds of PWNA members that agree with Robert, how come you are the only one here defending him?

 

[Clean County PW]

Tell ya what Russ....I'll bet my bank account against John T's that it's many,many times that. In fact it's my understanding that Doug signed 20+ new (Paying) Members at AC's show this weekend.

Put your money where your mouth is John....I'm all in!!!!!

I don't want your Bank account Guy so keep that. Somewhere in here Ron states that there are 11 paid members and something about Donor members and free membership(no clue what he's talking about here).

So since your an executive UAMCC BOD how many paid memberships do you currently have and why are you stressing that the UAMCC is an industry voice nationally when you have such a small membership?

 

[Clean County PW]

That doesn't even make sense....Are you saying the only members are the BOD?


If there are hundreds of PWNA members that agree with Robert, how come you are the only one here defending him?

There is at least 230 paid PWNA members when I went to their Convention this past October. Name a PWNA member that post on PWI much. They hardly ever do.

As for Robert he gave us both the PWNA and the UAMCC and to me he gets tons of respect for that and the new UAMCC guys don't want to give him at least that.. It's wrong. If they didn't think so then they shouldn't be a part of the org he created.

So you figure it out Barry.

 

[Ohio pressure wash]

As for Robert he gave us both the PWNA and the UAMCC and to me he gets tons of respect for that and the new UAMCC guys don't want to give him at least that.. It's wrong.

You still don't get it....His involvement with UAMCC was because he lost his credentials/podium at PWNA. He needed another Org to validate himself. I'm sure that if PWNA booted him....we'd suddenly need a third Org. It's simple capitalism...not benevolence.

If they didn't think so then they shouldn't be a part of the org he created.

I've been saying this since 2010. For at least two years, I pleaded with Ron to start a real contractor Org. I argued with several people that It was probably easier to start fresh with no baggage then to try and fix it. Many disagreed and here we are...they'll either pull it off or they won't. I hope they do simply because we cannot have PWNA as the only option. I feel so strongly about this that I offered to help even though I am not a member and disagree with some things.

 

[Tony Shelton]

There is at least 230 paid PWNA members when I went to their Convention this past October. Name a PWNA member that post on PWI much. They hardly ever do.

As for Robert he gave us both the PWNA and the UAMCC and to me he gets tons of respect for that and the new UAMCC guys don't want to give him at least that.. It's wrong. If they didn't think so then they shouldn't be a part of the org he created.

So you figure it out Barry.

Hello John, The Pwna BOD notes show there were 211 members in September 2012 and 224 in December 2012.

As of the last board meeting in January 2013 there were 220.

The most interesting thing is the trend line. The trend line shows an approximate 20% loss of members over the past two years.

Another curious thing you might want to take a look at is the boost that came in 2010 when Ron started promoting the PWNA. He promoted membership for a few months priot to the Tampa Roundtable. July 30 was the date of the Tampa roundtable. That was the roundtable where Ron was so excited about the PWNA that he made a bet with Daryl Mirza that 50 new members would join. I was standing there when he made it.

Interestingly the Board did not post the membership numbers again till November. But the jump from right before the Tampa roundtable till the November count went from 197 to 220 to 254 in November.

But now the Ron boost is gone. A 20 year old org is just about back where it was three years ago.

I don't know for sure where the UAMCC is for numbers right now. But I'd bet you that same golf game at Pebble Beach that Daryl bet Ron that the trendline for the UAMCC this year dwarfs the Pwna.

 

[Tony Shelton]

Tony:

When you do that type of thing there is a formal procedure to follow, it was published. If I remember right we only received one suggestion, which was not from you.

Posting attacks on PWI did not count.

Robert, You wrote the above in response to my claim that I tried to get the BMP's changed to something sensible when you presented them to the membership and I WAS A MEMBER OF THE PWNA AT THAT TIME.

Please allow me to refresh your memory:

From the Pwna conference call April 2011, you were there:

Environmental BMPs – We’re still working on these. Mike Hilborn put a call into Bill Booz
yesterday regarding why he doesn’t like them. Mike will follow up with him. These BMPs are
just a guide, not a law. Mike spoke with Tony Shelton and he’s had some positive feedback for
us. It was agreed upon that we will extend the deadline on the comments for the BMPs another
7 days, and open it up to the public for comment.

And from the May 10 meeting which you were also in attendance:

The Environmental Committee met yesterday. We went through Tony Shelton’s comments and added
some of those. We would like to vote on the proposed BMPs and the Model Ordinance. Robert
Hinderliter and Mike Hilborn will then write the curriculum, Powerpoint, and test for the certification
course. That class will be taught at the convention for free and the certification will be an additional
$50.

So, Mr. Hinderliter, you don't remember right.

A lot of time and effort was put into trying to get the message across that this BMP was more restrictive than most AHJ's already have, but there was no getting past the hot water issue, your mind was made up. That was the only way you could guarantee that every power washer would have to dump in the sewer.

Gentlemen, please listen to Ron trying his best to work with the PWNA for you CONTRACTORS. These are the BOARD MEETING notes on the PWNA's website for a special meeting called on 3/24/11.

Special Called PWNA Board of Directors and Environmental Committee Meeting
3/24/2011
In Attendance:
Charlie Arnold
Robert Hinderliter
Dan Galvin
Ron Musgraves
Daryl Mirza
Mike Hinderliter
Eric Clark
Steve James
Scott Stone
Paul Horsley
John Nearon
Jackie Tacheny
Mike Hilborn
BMPs issue:
Robert Hinderliter gave an update of Phase 2 from the EPA
o Regardless of size, systems must be put in place to reduce polution
o Houston is 16 years late on this, now environmental crimes unit is
involved
o Fort Worth has BMPs in place
o Houston decided to go in a different direction than Fort Worth
o Politics has a large role in this process. City Council, etc. will react to
politics.
Basically there are two choices as to where waste water will go: into storm drains
or sanitary sewer. If waste water goes through screens and/or booms, waste water would
be okay going into a sanitary sewer if approved by the city. Political pressure is a big
problem for our industry. It is important to agree on an avenue for the PWNA.
Region 6 EPA - Fort Worth is operating illegally according to Houston Police Officers.
Ron Musgraves comments:
The extent of this is that Houston is a big problem. EMP vs BMP?
No hot water, no chemicals, and no waste transported off property.
Why? Ordinances and laws are keeping people from operating.
Ron believes we should just stay out of their jurisdiction on private property.
Law Enforcement issues: There are training camps to criminalize Power Washing
contractors.
Full closed looped systems are being cited. They are giving citations and letting
the judge work out what they are being cited for. Contractors are being cited with
the hope that they will just pay the fines. Contractors will need to operate on a
basis of how many tickets they will get per month.
If using chemicals, they will not just cite you, they will prosecute you. Judgment
of $17,000 for the cleanup has been issued on one contractor already.
Teach how not to violate the Clean Water Act. Violation in Phoenix is a rare
occasion. Are there times we must go beyond? Yes. In Houston, you must:
o Have an independent hauler come in and take water off site.
o No chemicals will be used in any cleaning process.
o Full reclaimers have been cited.
o Ron’s suggested action – Video to help education of enforcement because
they are confused, or do not care. They are not about permits, but stiffer
and harsher fines.
Robert Hinderliter remarks: He and Ron have different opinions on the issue.
EPA is about BMPs not brands, processes, or equipment. They are looking for
specific measurements. Two entirely different approaches with results similar in
Houston and Fort Worth.
Ron Musgraves remarks: The city cites and asks questions later. Contractors are being
cited regardless of process. Four years ago, Gwinnett County began to shut down Power
Washers.
Ron Musgraves got off the call.
Robert Hinderliter states there is jealously between regulators and discrepancy amongst
them as well.
Objectives: Get the BMPs completed so we can have several organizations (UAMCC,
IKECA, IWCA, and carpet cleaners) to adopt these BMPs as their own.
PWNA Board of Directors will vote on BMPs on Wednesday, March 30, 2011 at 10:00
a.m. eastern time, then ask other organizations to approve these BMPs as well.
At our next regularly scheduled board meeting on April 12, 2011 at 10:00 a.m. eastern
time, Robert and Mike Hilborn will have ordinances and enforcement suggestions for the
board to approve as well as a model workshop for education of enforcement people.
On these two conference calls we will accomplish the following:
1- BMPs to be approved and then seeking out other national organizations to
approve them as well. This will give more political clout for a City use.
2- At the next Board of Directors’ call on April 12, we will vote on suggested actual
City Ordinances and Enforcements to address enforcement officers who have
cited people without looking to see if companies are within compliance before
sighting someone as a violation.
3- Vote at the next Board of Directors’ meeting a suggested Workshop for education
of Enforcement officers.
The Minutes will be emailed to the board today for approval and votes will be submitted
by email back to Jackie by 10:00 a.m. eastern time tomorrow (Friday, March 25).
Meeting adjourned at 10:03 a.m. by Eric Clark.
Respectfully submitted,
Jackie Tacheny

 

[Clean County PW]

You still don't get it....His involvement with UAMCC was because he lost his credentials/podium at PWNA. He needed another Org to validate himself. I'm sure that if PWNA booted him....we'd suddenly need a third Org. It's simple capitalism...not benevolence.





I've been saying this since 2010. For at least two years, I pleaded with Ron to start a real contractor Org. I argued with several people that It was probably easier to start fresh with no baggage then to try and fix it. Many disagreed and here we are...they'll either pull it off or they won't. I hope they do simply because we cannot have PWNA as the only option. I feel so strongly about this that I offered to help even though I am not a member and disagree with some things.

Barry you just don't understand. It doesn't matter what Roberts reasons were as to why he created the UAMCC.. The bottom line is he did indeed create the UAMCC. So your not getting it. What is it that you don't understand there?
So you argued and pleaded with the new guys that run the UAMCC today to start there own org.. And they didn't listen to you. So what does that tell you?

 

[Clean County PW]

Hello John, The Pwna BOD notes show there were 211 members in September 2012 and 224 in December 2012.

As of the last board meeting in January 2013 there were 220.

The most interesting thing is the trend line. The trend line shows an approximate 20% loss of members over the past two years.

Another curious thing you might want to take a look at is the boost that came in 2010 when Ron started promoting the PWNA. He promoted membership for a few months priot to the Tampa Roundtable. July 30 was the date of the Tampa roundtable. That was the roundtable where Ron was so excited about the PWNA that he made a bet with Daryl Mirza that 50 new members would join. I was standing there when he made it.

Interestingly the Board did not post the membership numbers again till November. But the jump from right before the Tampa roundtable till the November count went from 197 to 220 to 254 in November.

But now the Ron boost is gone. A 20 year old org is just about back where it was three years ago.

I don't know for sure where the UAMCC is for numbers right now. But I'd bet you that same golf game at Pebble Beach that Daryl bet Ron that the trendline for the UAMCC this year dwarfs the Pwna.

So what's your point? Ron won the PWNA "VENDOR OF THE YEAR AWARD" that yr and deservedly so. He still hasn't come close when I was a Board of director with the PWNA along with Michael Hinderliter and we were at 475 members but he did good.
Oh by the way he won the Joe Walters award that Jean Hendrix and myself and a couple of others were involved in naming there awards The PWNA Joe Walters (VENDOR OF THE YR) Award & The PWNA Robert Hinderliter Contractor of the yr award.

So in essence he won the award that I had a hand in naming... Got to love that. Also 475 members in this industry is pretty darn good. The UAMCC had 145 paid members The first yr before we blew it up.. If I was involved with the UAMCC this past yr they would have had at least 10x the membership they have now but it's your turn Tony to do something... Alienating doesn't seem to be working from your end but the laughs are great.

 

[Tony Shelton]

So what's your point? Ron won the PWNA "VENDOR OF THE YEAR AWARD" that yr and deservedly so. He still hasn't come close when I was a Board of director with the PWNA along with Michael Hinderliter and we were at 475 members but he did good.
Oh by the way he won the Joe Walters award that Jean Hendrix and myself and a couple of others were involved in naming there awards The PWNA Joe Walters (VENDOR OF THE YR) Award & The PWNA Robert Hinderliter Contractor of the yr award.

So in essence he won the award that I had a hand in naming... Got to love that. Also 475 members in this industry is pretty darn good. The UAMCC had 145 paid members The first yr before we blew it up.. If I was involved with the UAMCC this past yr they would have had at least 10x the membership they have now but it's your turn Tony to do something... Alienating doesn't seem to be working from your end but the laughs are great.

You're funny John. Especially since the only source of information you have regarding the number of UAMCC members comes from the same two sources that are feeding you all the other BS you believe. When that is proven wrong will you realize they are wrong about just about everything else too? Nevermind, probably not.

John, you are too nice of a guy to be pulled around by the nose like you are. The day is coming when you will have the same epiphany you had when the UAMCC blew up before and you realize how you've been used. We'll be here for you when that day comes.

And what is it with all the award stuff?

I've got an award for playing piano when I was nine. I've got another one for track at 13. Going way back I think there is one for "participation" when I was clumsy and had two left feet. I've got all sorts of awards somewhere in a box. Shelly's got some awards for humanitarian work in Russia and Romania, also, somewhere in a box.

I always wondered why some people like to live on their past achievements.

If I wanted to put a memory on my wall of past achievements I'd much rather have pictures of old nightclub sluts from back in my heathen days. It might not be as important as "Vendor of the year", but I will guarantee you the memories would be much more pleasant. lol.

The award fetish must be a cop thing, or just a John thing. Either way, have fun with it, but in reality, ten awards and a quarter will get you one round on the gumball machine.
.

 

[Guy Blackmon]

So since your an executive UAMCC BOD how many paid memberships do you currently have and why are you stressing that the UAMCC is an industry voice nationally when you have such a small membership?

There may be an up-date in the board minutes (UAMCC Forum) on Membership and it's no big secret but before I (Or anyone else) could say the Ex. Board would have to ok it since we don't anything unless we're all notified and in agreement. No "Lone Guns" around here.

The other part of your Quote is just you saying "Stupid" stuff like you have for a while now. John why do you constantly made stuff up out of thin air? Do you think that people believe your dribble?

Tell ya what Johnny, show me in this thread where I say that and I'll donate $1000.00 to the charity of your choice, if you can't you donate the same amount to the charity of my choice......Deal?

Of course you won't take it because I never said it in this thread, and if memory serves correct I haven't said anything like that since I accepted this board seat.

Dribble, Smoke & Mirrors, & Deception Johnny, that's all you got.

 

[Clean County PW]

There may be an up-date in the board minutes (UAMCC Forum) on Membership and it's no big secret but before I (Or anyone else) could say the Ex. Board would have to ok it since we don't anything unless we're all notified and in agreement. No "Lone Guns" around here.

The other part of your Quote is just you saying "Stupid" stuff like you have for a while now. John why do you constantly made stuff up out of thin air? Do you think that people believe your dribble?

Tell ya what Johnny, show me in this thread where I say that and I'll donate $1000.00 to the charity of your choice, if you can't you donate the same amount to the charity of my choice......Deal?

Of course you won't take it because I never said it in this thread, and if memory serves correct I haven't said anything like that since I accepted this board seat.

Dribble, Smoke & Mirrors, & Deception Johnny, that's all you got.

Everybody is stupid to you Guy but you apparently don't read the Post thru or you just can't comprehend what's written. I never said that you boasted about the UAMCC membership. You need to read and understand more whats written.

Also stop making promises you can't keep. You were all over the net a yr or so ago about the "Houston fiasco" and how you were going. Then suddenly you couldn't make it but your going to donate a $1000 to whatever cause was going on down there. Did you ever do that? Of course not.

Don't make promises you can't keep. Calling people names and telling them how stupid they are all the time is not getting you any points except for being one of the drama queens.

Talk facts will talk. You want to bet bank accounts... Well then get your reality show going...

 

[offdutyfireman]

I am lost at to what either one of your are talking about, but John, really, Facts?. You have been caught in three lies in the last few days and you want to talk facts. If we have got Robert shut down for awhile we should all consider it a small victory for the contractors and move on to try to undo what he has done. That is what this whole thread has been about. Robert exposing himself and all the contractors uniting to stop him.

 

[Ohio pressure wash]

Barry you just don't understand. It doesn't matter what Roberts reasons were as to why he created the UAMCC.. The bottom line is he did indeed create the UAMCC. So your not getting it. What is it that you don't understand there?

That is beyond ridiculous...First, it assumes that there is/was only one man that can create an Org. Second, it suggests that nobody else did anything. Personally, I think the world of Pressure washing would have been better off had it never happened. If there was a chance that other people might have created an organization or association, Robert probably prevented it as people rallied behind the "new PWNA".

No matter what happens in the future....the UAMCC was used as a tool to promote regulations. Why you think that deserves praise is baffling. Anything gained is offset buy the damage and labor to undo it.

So you argued and pleaded with the new guys that run the UAMCC today to start there own org.. And they didn't listen to you. So what does that tell you?

Oh well golly gee Gomer...since you put it that way, I suppose I should just join PWNA.

Do you really think people in the pressure washing industry are that stupid that 3rd grade rationalizations like that work?

Your drunken Babe Ruth posts at least had a comedy value....your boot licking hero worship posts in this thread are beyond annoying.

 

[Ohio pressure wash]

Objectives: Get the BMPs completed so we can have several organizations (UAMCC,
IKECA, IWCA, and carpet cleaners) to adopt these BMPs as their own.

This is pretty damning. I can't believe they'd leave this open to the public. I'd think getting it "right" would be the primary objective. It appears from this statement that the primary objective is to co-opt the other Org's and control the agenda.

Tony...It also shows the concerns I expressed about how the importance of the Org trumping everything else. When people put their Org in front of the industry, especially the leaders, nothing good can result.