Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
If you will read, that is exactly what is written.
The problem is people have their minds made up before reading, or trying to understand.
Guess that is why my table got thrown out.
EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution
- Thread starter Robert Hinderliter
- Start date
If you will read, that is exactly what is written.
The problem is people have their minds made up before reading, or trying to understand.
Guess that is why my table got thrown out.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
What is UAMCC's Current BMPs. Do they even exist?.
Who is the Environmental Chairman?
Who is the Environmental Chairman?
Ohio pressure wash
New member
This was pretty much the topic of my ranting in 2010-2011.
As I said back then, and you hit on here in your post...is that the entire plan, the EPA and that of Robert's and the Orgs was and is built on a dysfunctional model. As regulations get stiffer....there is less cleaning. As there is less cleaning, there are fewer cleaners. The system as designed, makes "doing nothing" the smarter option for the property owner. They cut out the revenue stream and target the solution not the problem.
So, what happens to the pollution if a pressure washer isn't around to be monitored, validated, verified, ticketed and fined?
It's still there.
It's not only still there but it's also transferred to different places by people and mother nature. The oil still makes it to the "waters of the US". The silt, litter and suspended solids still run down the drain. The oil still get tracked on shoes, into cars, into homes.
These Reg's and BMP's do not address maintenance. Since there is no "requirement under the CWA" to keep the area clean, nobody gets a ticket. These areas can get as bad as Tony's pics and even worse. The oils run off and down the storm drain every time it rains. The EPA has basically made polluting the least expensive option.....it's free! Yea...totally bass ackwards from the intent. This is what happens when a bunch of bureaucrats and lobbyists punch their time cards, draw their checks and dream of retirement. People have to live with their stupid ill thought out ideas.
It's simple math and economics
If the property owners were required by the same reg's to have maintenance cleanings (calling it cosmetic cleaning was stupid), there would be a revenue stream. Everything would then make sense. There would be not only a demand for cleaning but a demand for regulation compliant cleaning.
This is why I laugh at the phrase "rational, reasonable and logical". Nothing about this entire thing is rational or logical. It's a knee jerk reaction allowed to survive common sense and grow to adulthood....sprinkle in a bit of ego and greed from the industry "leaders" and what you have is our regulations and BMP's.
We need to start fresh...disavow the premise and begin from the ground up. We are not polluters...we clean pollution.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Great points Barry.
We can't forget there is another factor at work here. Those who make the rules are often the ones who have no qualms whatsoever about breaking them because they have no morals in the first place.
Just like this guy:
Do as I SAY, not as I DO!
And these guys:
Do as I say!! Pick up all your water! Use vacuums and sumps!! Help us stop those evil polluting powerwashers! Put stickers on your tanks to let people know you are a water reclaimer! (Doesn't matter if you have any reclaim equipment or not on the trailer, all that matters is that it says you do!!!
And oh yeah, make sure your PWNA sticker is prominent so they will all know that Robert Hinderliter has your back!
Go PWNA! (the black arrow is pointing to an enlargement of the PWNA sticker that is on the corner of the PW trailer. This is cleanup of concrete dust from brand new construction with not so much as a screen to capture debris. Maybe this is a 25 percenter Robert is talking about. Maybe he has his orgs mixed up.
Go Robert Hinderliter, uhm, excuse me, Go Michael Hinderliter, PWNA Board member, with your "AC condensation!"
Why are we still having this conversation.
Let's fish or cut bait.
We can't forget there is another factor at work here. Those who make the rules are often the ones who have no qualms whatsoever about breaking them because they have no morals in the first place.
Just like this guy:
Do as I SAY, not as I DO!
And these guys:
Do as I say!! Pick up all your water! Use vacuums and sumps!! Help us stop those evil polluting powerwashers! Put stickers on your tanks to let people know you are a water reclaimer! (Doesn't matter if you have any reclaim equipment or not on the trailer, all that matters is that it says you do!!!
And oh yeah, make sure your PWNA sticker is prominent so they will all know that Robert Hinderliter has your back!
Go PWNA! (the black arrow is pointing to an enlargement of the PWNA sticker that is on the corner of the PW trailer. This is cleanup of concrete dust from brand new construction with not so much as a screen to capture debris. Maybe this is a 25 percenter Robert is talking about. Maybe he has his orgs mixed up.
Go Robert Hinderliter, uhm, excuse me, Go Michael Hinderliter, PWNA Board member, with your "AC condensation!"
Why are we still having this conversation.
Let's fish or cut bait.
Ohio pressure wash
New member
How many angles can dance on the head of a pin?
What does this have to do with your BMP's? Are you suggesting a bad BMP is better than none?
Clean County PW
Active member
Never blind Charlie never. Which is why I'm conflicted with.... Well you can figure that one out. I'm no different then any other contractor. I was actually talking to a contractor tonight and I purposely brought up you name and said "I wish I was doing this tue age Charlie Soden is" Gods honest truth.. 24 I was hanging out in places like Haifa Israel waiting for the enemy to attack....
Your light yrs ahead of me with this Industry. The one thing I do is research. I look for people that IMHO can help things. If Carlos saw this post, I brought up his name and supported him to take the UAMCC off of Roberts hands. I had a committee setup and conversations before Carlos came in(still and hopefully will always be my biggest mistake in what happened down the road here and no one wants to take that blame with me and that's ok.. Live and learn)
I know Robert is a good soul. He's getting pounded now for money being his main reason for doing what he did. That's always the end all when people want to argue... My only answer to that is this.... Why are you in business Charlie??
I don't wear knee pads like Tony Shelton likes to say to try and bend my will. Heck your A UAMCC BOD. Call Guy Blackmon and ask him what the gist of our two phone calls were Saturday night.. He's a warrior. I like fighters. He's passionate and gives a dam. I like that as well even if me & Guy disagree whole heart-idly with each other.. Some fights are worth having.... But even in the worst of them and the person is not a piece of shizz.. I can go out with them afterwords and share a drink.... Because we tried..
If you want to say I follow Robert Blindly... That's fine. I can only tell you I follow nothing blindly... Never have and never will.. Well maybe for that last one because that's a battle I can't win.... If you understand that.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
This is a three bay semi-truck fuel filling station at a petroleum plant.
Right in the middle of each of the lanes is a big grated hole, right behind where Chris is standing in this picture. The entire thing is covered by a huge roof. There is no rain event ever going to get a drop of rain inside this area unless it comes in on the wheels of the trucks.
I'd like to ask Robert, what the big hole is for? It is for floods in case God ever gets angry with us again and floods the earth? Because that is the only way this system will ever see rainwater.
Or, is it for US to be used when washing down the lanes?
Tony I cannot believe you would ask that! Obviously you have not been reading what I have been posting; or not understanding. Here I will make it easy for you:
"Discharge to the Sanitary Sewer - Preferred
- Discharging to the Sanitary Sewer is allowed with a Cosmetic Cleaning permit.
- Discharge must be in compliance with local regulations and limits (Solids less than 250 mg/L, Petroleums less than 250 mg/L), and may require pre-treatment, sampling, and possibly other measures.
- The city of Fort Worth has never been able to detect wash water from Cosmetic Cleaning in their POTW (Publicly Owned Treatment Works).
- Ensure pH of the wash water is between 5.0 and 12.0 (use pH test strips) and below 150˚F.
- Filter using the best available method that removes the largest amount of contaminants.
- If these options are not available then discharge to a mop sink, utility sink, kitchen sink, toilet, inside floor drain, or Sanitary Sewer clean-out stub.
- Never remove the Sanitary Sewer or Storm Drain manhole cover as these are City Property and require authorization to open."
You said reading was better for you than understanding a picture; apparently not. Do you need me to explain what those holes as you call them are.
On PowerWash.com there is a video that explains what they are, what they are for, and how to use them. Do I need to lead you there?
You might learn something if you had an open mind.
You need to go to PWNA.org, click on the environmental tab, for a new learning experience. If you would you would not be asking the stupid question above.
Is that how you are suppose to trick me up? Ask me about my own work to see if I understand my own work?
You answer is in the videos, which are understandable for most people.
You would also learn that almost every statement you have made is false; or maybe you cannot understand the information. Jim Gamble said he would be glad to tutor you. (My Daddy always said that it you told a tall one, it was not a lie.) (Do I need to explain that?)
I am waiting: Next Trick Question.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Obviously you do not understand SWPPP or the concept it is based on.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
You sir, have just proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no business whatsoever instructing anyone on anything to do with environmental issues.
I knew the answer to this question before I ever put it out to you. And yes, Sir, it was a trick question and you failed.
But just for good measure (and because I was unaware of the nomenclature used on these systems) I called the head of maintenance at this facility who has used us for cleaning for over a year. He told me he was VERY aware of where this runoff goes because he is responsible for it.
This runoff goes into what he called a "slop tank". They have a service come out and remove and service the slop tank monthly or quarterly. (we clean it monthly and have for almost two years). He said under NO CIRCUMSTANCES could this go into the municipal sewer system and that NONE of these types of facilities nationwide are allowed to flow into the sewer system. I asked him "you mean the storm sewer?" (because I knew you would say something like that) and he replied "no, the storm sewer is an entirely separate issue, this cannot be put into the SANITARY sewer under any circumstances because of the the large undiluted spills that happen at places like this on a regular basis.
No, Mr, Hinderliter, the best way to educate the contractors on environmental compliance is to remove your videos, instructions, courses and virtually everything else you have spouted over the years, put it in a pile and burn it, and retire to Jim's Villa.
Christopher
Moderator
You are right like always Tony, those drains go to slop tanks.
At the refinery I worked at for 12 years, our gasoline loading rack had the similar setup, all the spills went to a slop tank, the difference was that the one I worked at was part of the refinery so it would automatically pump to a larger slop tank when the level got to a certain level, we had to check it twice per shift to make sure the pump did not go out and cause puddles in the loading rack area. Then that liquid would go to the wastewater dept. of the refinery and got processed and the hydrocarbons made it back to the crude oil tanks to go back through the system.
The way this was poured, no rain would ever get onto that slab, the concrete before that area was sloped away and also had measures in place so no rain would ever get in there.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
We need more examples from Contract Cleaners.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Why, because even a broken clock is right twice per day?
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Ohio pressure wash
New member
Show me a EPA warning letter or fine to a gas station or restaurant for cleaning their nasty concrete. When all that drama in Houston was going on, I don't recall any mention of the police citing store owners for dirty concrete.
Ohio pressure wash
New member
This question is for you Robert and the Board of UAMCC....
If online "work" is formed or created in the name of UAMCC, by someone that is a member, director or chairman, is that "work" the exclusive property of the author or does the UAMCC have sole or even joint rights?
Specifically...
There are many online documents regarding these "BMP's" noting that they were "developed" in cooperation with the UAMCC
Example:
Mobile Power Washing Associations Unite to Develop A
Best Management Practices Model, Workshop and
Ordinance
News-Press Release
(Newsbox) 14-Aug-2011
http://newsbox.com/release/4162/
Summary
The Power Washers of North America (www.pwna.org) and United Association of Mobile Contract Cleaners (www.uamcc.org )
have joined together to develop a model cosmetic mobile power washing best management practices (BMPs), workshop, and
ordinance based on the EPA’s model ordinance.
IMHO...you cannot have your cake and eat it too, meaning that you cannot use the Org and title (for years) to validate yourself and produce work in their name and then, when it suits your fancy, withdraw your work and labors.
I'm no lawyer but I think the answer to your questions is, the BMP's you have promoted as having been "developed jointly" are also the UAMCC's BMP's and thus open to modification by the UAMCC board of directors at their discretion.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Barry Posted:
I'm no lawyer but I think the answer to your questions is, the BMP's you have promoted as having been "developed jointly" are also the UAMCC's BMP's and thus open to modification by the UAMCC board of directors at their discretion.
Barry:
Those BMPs can be modified by anyone at their discretion. They are up there as a starting point for anyone. Be my guest and write your own to your liking.
I'm no lawyer but I think the answer to your questions is, the BMP's you have promoted as having been "developed jointly" are also the UAMCC's BMP's and thus open to modification by the UAMCC board of directors at their discretion.
Barry:
Those BMPs can be modified by anyone at their discretion. They are up there as a starting point for anyone. Be my guest and write your own to your liking.
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Tony:
Those BMPs are not for Hazardous Waste, which is stated several times.
DO NOT USE THE EPA MODEL ORDINANCE COSMETIC CLEANING BMPs FOR HAZARDOUS WASTE.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
When we clean these pads they are no different than any garage. As a matter of fact, THEY clean up any spills immediately, so that when we come in to clean the only thing we have to deal with at all is a few drips near the buckets where they leave the connectors and the oil drips from the leaking semis.
For OUR PURPOSE we are doing the exact thing Jim is doing in a garage.
According to your BMP's we would have to pick this water up and put it in the sanitary sewer.
There are literally tens of thousands of places in this country that are perfectly capable of capturing our runoff onsite and dealing with is ON PROPERTY just like this one.
Your BMP's don't recognize that at all, and, in fact, work to convince the regulators that ALL washwater must be picked up and put in the santiary sewer. This is false. Period.
Please, go on and continue what you are doing. I've met with a lot of regulators who can easily see right through what you are doing. Keep on with it. In the end you will look just as foolish and defeated to them as you have looked in this thread. Only you won't have a clue because your ego glasses won't let you see.
The regulators you latch on to are the fringe, and they are the minority. They do not represent the good regulators who work hard to keep the environment clean and know that limiting health and safety cleaning is more detrimental than the tiny amounts of runoff that might make it past our gravity filtration equipment. They are also smart enough to know that coming down hard on us won't make our water any cleaner, nor make their coffers any larger, but will rather, simply, cause us to go on to different lines of work leaving the sidewalks of our nation filthy like a third world country.
Nostradamus almost eradicated the entire black plague by starting a program of cleaning the streets.
Now, your path is a trip back in time to where filth and garbage put our health in danger.
And for what? So a few large contractors can rule the market and you can sell a few vacuums and filters.
Sad and pathetic.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
We gave you an opportunity over a year and a half ago to write one to all our "liking". Why didn't you do it then?
Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
Tony:
It says to discharge your waste water to a sand trap, grit trap, and grease trap if available. It does not say anything about how you are to accomplish it. That is left up to the contractor.
Obviously if you are washing over one of these you do not need to pick up the waste water in order to accomplish the discharge.
To be honest Tony, you do not comprehend very well the written word.
What level is your academic training?
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Robert Hinderliter
Hall of Fame Member
No one ever answered what the UAMCC’s
Where is the leadership, just in Bulling everyone else?
- Environmental Chairperson is, so I assume you do not have one that will take on the responsibility and admit who he is!
- You have never published you BMPs as I have, so you probably cannot agree on these either.
Where is the leadership, just in Bulling everyone else?