EPA Enforcement in 2012 Protects Communities From Harmful Pollution

810f250 said:
I have wondered why some fuel stations were not built this way.

Some fuel stations have an OWS, some have more elaborate systems than an OWS, the ones I have encountered were not designed for pressure cleaning operations of the fuel pads as detailed by their design engineers and the treated run off goes to storm.

I would be nice to have a "built in" on site system the when we arrive to clean we turn a directional flow valve that would send the wash water to a adequately designed system then to sanitary sewer.

even simple things like drive thrus, at least built and designed to run to one or two particular low points, it would be so much easier, cost effective and possibly reduce storm drain discharge form cleaning activities.
Click to expand...

All through the 80 and part of 90 the gas station industry attempted this, does anyone remember car wash Craze on fuel stations? We wondered how they made money? The government through a program tested this on service stations. The bond money was lost and the program was not cost effective.
 
Thanks Ron seen most of your videos , that gas station gravity remediation setup in the last video, is most likely designed for incidentals from rain events.

Interestingly my local walmart just did a renovation, I had pics of the BMP's that were implemented during construction, but what was interesting is the new permanent parking lot remediation areas that were installed.
Another interesting thing is the last one they renovated in the next county over in the past 10 months did not have the remediation design.

Not sure if you saw this Shell gas station cleaning demo I did in Maryland.

The fuel station I did the demonstration for I believe has a much more advance storm water protection system than your Germantown Maryalnd video, and still the design engineers of the underground unit said it is not designed and should not be used for pressure cleaning of the fuel pad, in addition the water leads off site to a intercepting storm pond.
 
Last edited:
Ron Musgraves said:

This Gas station Located in Maryland is built to handle its own Pollution. Watch the video with open mind set that water is being clean here prior to even Bio remediation. The difference in this system is that its above ground. Notice the oil collecting at the opening from he pavement.

Maryland is the most compliant built real-estate in the country per clean water act regulations. (PERIOD)
Click to expand...

that looks like a nice setup. what would you do just replace the dirty sand when it has its full?
 
Tony Shelton said:
Other industries have found perfectly legal ways to filter runoff without the use of complicated pumping or vacuuming machines that require more use of small engines pumping exhaust into the air.

Failing to push for simple gravity filtration and the full implementation of the built-in systems that already exist to deal with rainwater runoff such as detention basins and nature filtered areas is treason to our industry.

Our industry is LOW IMPACT with a NET POSITIVE effect on the environment. We are not polluters. We are cleaners.

What's next when vacuums, bulky filter systems and sump pumps fail to bring in enough revenue?.....A campaign against the very small engines that run them? I can hear it now:

"Get rid of all small engines.........Don't IMPAIR the AIR".

This is ridiculous.

The entire approach is flawed as proven by the march down to Houston to bend over, pull down our pants and say "Do what you like, regulators, just tell us what you want us to do".

Thank God for Ron educating them on the fact that retention systems exist and were built for a reason, allowing Houston contractors to get back to work.

No other industry on the planet would allow one of their own to lay down and make policy that confuses it's own contractors and the public.

And an industry org that would allow it would be blackballed.

It's appalling.
Click to expand...



Tony, In your opinion where would a complete full blown reclaim system NEED to be used?
 
810f250 said:
Thanks Ron seen most of your videos , that gas station gravity remediation setup in the last video, is most likely designed for incidentals from rain events.

Interestingly my local walmart just did a renovation, I had pics of the BMP's that were implemented during construction, but what was interesting is the new permanent parking lot remediation areas that were installed.
Another interesting thing is the last one they renovated in the next county over in the past 10 months did not have the remediation design.

Not sure if you saw this Shell gas station cleaning demo I did in Maryland.

The fuel station I did the demonstration for I believe has a much more advance storm water protection system than your Germantown Maryalnd video, and still the design engineers of the underground unit said it is not designed and should not be used for pressure cleaning of the fuel pad, in addition the water leads off site to a intercepting storm pond.
Click to expand...


Forgot to mention, the crazy thing is the underground unit at my shell station, is much bigger and better than almost all mobile wash water filters in our industry,

if it can be utilized during routine pressure cleaning (not spill clean up) and its water redirected to sanitary sewer, this would be great.
 
810f250 said:
Thanks Ron seen most of your videos , that gas station gravity remediation setup in the last video, is most likely designed for incidentals from rain events.

Interestingly my local walmart just did a renovation, I had pics of the BMP's that were implemented during construction, but what was interesting is the new permanent parking lot remediation areas that were installed.
Another interesting thing is the last one they renovated in the next county over in the past 10 months did not have the remediation design.

Not sure if you saw this Shell gas station cleaning demo I did in Maryland.

The fuel station I did the demonstration for I believe has a much more advance storm water protection system than your Germantown Maryalnd video, and still the design engineers of the underground unit said it is not designed and should not be used for pressure cleaning of the fuel pad, in addition the water leads off site to a intercepting storm pond.
Click to expand...

Any discharge of a rain event off property would be a violation of Cwa. I have found this information is wrong. Most water authority have no clue at the private systems. In fact they ignore the questions when asked in public, then behind closed doors the memory comes back. Doug actually saw this happen I'm Houston.


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
 
junker1 said:
Tony, In your opinion where would a complete full blown reclaim system NEED to be used?
Click to expand...

Any place where excessive contaminants exist that would reach the MS4 and cannot be sufficiently neutralized, removed by gravity, natural, or built-in existing filtration.

Or, if the customer requests it.

Those instances are few and far between.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
junker1 said:
Robert, I am a 2nd year start up power washer doing mostly residential work. I am uneducated in the post that you made. Please explain to me in laymans terms what it is that you are trying to accomplish with this post. whats its purpose?
Click to expand...

The purpose is to know the attitude and direction of the Federal EPA which enforces their policies on the states; which enforce their policies on the Municipalities; which enforce their policies on their local communities and businesses. Contract Cleaners are on the bottom of this chain.

Congress set the Attitude and Budgets. Democrats are more aggressive on enforcement than Republicans. Hand writing is already on the wall, read it!
I have been watching this since 1969, and have been 80% accurate on timing.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so sharp!
 
Robert Hinderliter said:
The purpose is to know the attitude and direction of the Federal EPA which enforces their policies on the states; which enforce their policies on the Municipalities; which enforce their policies on their local communities and businesses. Contract Cleaners are on the bottom of this chain.

Congress set the Attitude and Budgets. Democrats are more aggressive on enforcement than Republicans. Hand writing is already on the wall, read it!
I have been watching this since 1969, and have been 80% accurate on timing.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so sharp!
Click to expand...

Thanks Robert, I have been trying to make heads or tails of this, lol, isnt easy though. when you say that contract cleaners are at the bottom of this chain how far down are we ? should I as a residential cleaner be worried about the federal epa? Should i pick up a reclaim system to have on board if the epa does show up?
 
junker1 said:
Thanks Robert, I have been trying to make heads or tails of this, lol, isnt easy though. when you say that contract cleaners are at the bottom of this chain how far down are we ? should I as a residential cleaner be worried about the federal epa? Should i pick up a reclaim system to have on board if the epa does show up?
Click to expand...

Picking up water and improperly disposing is a larger problem.


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
 
junker1 said:
Thanks Robert, I have been trying to make heads or tails of this, lol, isnt easy though. when you say that contract cleaners are at the bottom of this chain how far down are we ? should I as a residential cleaner be worried about the federal epa? Should i pick up a reclaim system to have on board if the epa does show up?
Click to expand...
Hey Steven I'm no Robert or even close considering what he knows here but for residential Cleanings since we still do alot ourselves there really isn't to many reasons why you would need a reclaim setup. Look at it this way. If the AHJ pulls up on you and your not using your reclaim system and dirty water is running down the street and into a storm drain it maybe a little to late at that point. If you were maybe trying to keep the water from running down the street with some berms but now water gets past them and heads down the storm drain then maybe you can show them your reclaim vac and possibly get a break..

In almost all cases so far it's really the Commercial cleaners who could run into some problems depending on what their doing. Deliberately letting Muriatic acid for example run down a storm drain and you get caught there maybe some problems.. If your cleaning a parking garage and the sludge and dirty water gets out and starts traveling down the street you may have some problems. On a different bb someone who post here has shown the AHJ in his area pulled up on him while cleaning a gas station. He was prepared and doing it right so they let him be.

Residential maybe stock a couple of berms at most and carry them in case you need them.. Reclaim system would take up way to much space and considering you'll probably never need or use it on residential it would be a waste to own one.
 
In case I haven't mention above there are a few guys that know a ton about this stuff because if your into it,it's interesting and also at times challenging. Guys that come to mind here on PWI besides Robert, are Guy Blackman,Nigel, Jerry McMillen and of course Ron Musgraves.
Just when I think I know more then most, these guys start chiming in and I realize there is a heck of alot more I need to study up on and learn from these guys.

Great topic.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Any discharge of a rain event off property would be a violation of Cwa. I have found this information is wrong. Most water authority have no clue at the private systems. In fact they ignore the questions when asked in public, then behind closed doors the memory comes back. Doug actually saw this happen I'm Houston.


Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227
Click to expand...


Ron, which information is wrong,...........just to be clear
 
junker1 said:
wouldnt that be the propertys built in filtration system?
Click to expand...

yes for incidentals, and most likely they had to have it installed during construction or renovation, that city has some of the strictest construction and storm water management practices.

Depending on the age of the fuel station, that surface absorption system may no longer be solely sufficient to obtain a fuel station construction permit today.
 
Last edited:
810f250 said:
yes for incidentals, and most likely they had to have it installed during construction or renovation, that city has some of the strictest construction and storm water management practices.

Depending on the age of the fuel station, that surface absorption system may no longer be solely sufficient to obtain a fuel station construction permit today.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you are saying (incidentals) that the sand trap area is capable of handling thousands of gallons of rain and washed off oil, antifreeze, transmission fluid, etc during a storm, but is somehow incapable of handling the runoff of a few hundred gallons of washwater after being dry cleaned and swept as per all bmp's.

It is absurd to and intellectually dishonest to suggest that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
Tony Shelton said:
It sounds to me like you are saying (incidentals) that the sand trap area is capable of handling thousands of gallons of rain and washed off oil, antifreeze, transmission fluid, etc during a storm, but is somehow incapable of handling the runoff of a few hundred gallons of washwater after being dry cleaned and swept as per all bmp's.

It is absurd to and intellectually dishonest to suggest that.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...





My intention is not to be absurd or to make intellectually dishonest suggestions.

My comments are based on supplied information by AHJ's and design engineers of similar systems and even more advanced units within the same state but different locals.

Tony it may handle what you speak of, but on the few I have inquired about, I was advised that it would be considered a violation to be utilized for other than what it was intended.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top