Delco price list hurting the industry,

When most people get into this field, they have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to how to price. A baseline list will give them atleast an idea. This isn't an exact list that tells you exactly how to price, it's gives them a number to adjust up or down.

All the list needs is a big message at the beginning that says "These numbers are a starting point, adjust your price according to market conditions, competition and cost of doing business in your area."
 
ckingclean said:
When most people get into this field, they have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to how to price. A baseline list will give them atleast an idea. This isn't an exact list that tells you exactly how to price, it's gives them a number to adjust up or down.

All the list needs is a big message at the beginning that says "These numbers are a starting point, adjust your price according to market conditions, competition and cost of doing business in your area."
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WOW, instead of having them stuble around at the bottom?

Sounds like a great idea, I would have thought everyone would have seen it like that.

I guess i just shouldnt take anything for what its worth. thanks for saying that.

So lets keep helping Robert by sending the e-mails please.

Everyone here has bitched about the list. no more, if you dont e-mail dont ever complain about that guy who chose the delco list agaist ya.
 
bump. We need to do what we can do get this changed.
 
Answers

Note the areas in red. They will respond to misconceptions. This guide was designed for those who had no idea of what to charge. The wording tells those who might use it that it is only a guide. Nothing is etched in stone. Robert is still waiting for suggestions on pricing. He has spent a lot of money trying to help people get started right. For those who have responded with helpful posts "Thank You", For the rest if you are really interested email Robert with your suggestions. He will listen. I promise you.

Pwkid said:
I have a question , How much was fuel, and chemical when that price list was made up ?
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Last Updated: June 05, 2007
Prices were a lot lower!

Pricing is more of an art than it is a science. Salesmanship plays a major role in the amount you can get for a particular job. Some Contract Cleaners can get 10% to 100% more for the same job than their competitors. Pricing becomes even more confusing because people are entering the business with consumer quality pressure washers without insurance, workmen's compensation, office, or overhead expenses because they are operating from their homes on a part time basis. They do not have normal business expenses. But the customer liability is greater because a lack of insurance and workmen's compensation. And often poorer quality work.

This price guide should be used as a reference point. It is not a recipe that will guarantee that you will get every bid. It will have to be modified to fit the economic conditions of competition in your area. You will have to decide if you are going to bid on quality or price, or somewhere in between. The economic realities are that you cannot deliver a Cadillac for a Volkswagen Price. Companies that do end up in bankruptcy.

Every time you lose a bid ask the customer who they went with, what was the price, and why they did not buy from you. This will give you the information to start modifying this price guide to fit your market area. Often the customer will not give you this information but most people will give you some information. This is the start of your market survey so that you can adjust this price guide for you in your market area. If you are getting 100% of your bids you are too low. You need to be rejected about 20% of the time to assure that you are getting for most for your time and effort (what your market will bear).After a competitor has completed a job go by and see what kind of work he did and if possible the price he charged for it. Try to determine if your competitor has insurance, or workmen's compensation. You should include insurance and workmen's compensation certificates with your bids and explain the liability that people have if they choose a contractor that does not have this coverage.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Thats not going to happen, so whats next best? Fix it
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You keep saying this... But there is no fix for something that isn't beneficial to anyone. The fix is to replace it with the truth. The truth is that Business 101 dictates that your price can only be determined by your expenses and profit margin expectation for a given production rate. The truth is that the advice should be to take some Business related training from a school of some sort. The truth is that if a person can't figure out how to price thier work then, they probably need to step back and re-think being in business.

Giving a guideline to folks that don't undestand how to price, is only hurting them and the rest of us that do know how. I have said it before... That guide line has been producing low-ballers and fly-by-nights for years.

Pricing my work is the easiest thing I do. It is elementary math.
 
FCPWLLC said:
You keep saying this... But there is no fix for something that isn't beneficial to anyone. The fix is to replace it with the truth. The truth is that Business 101 dictates that your price can only be determined by your expenses and profit margin expectation for a given production rate. The truth is that the advice should be to take some Business related training from a school of some sort. The truth is that if a person can't figure out how to price thier work then, they probably need to step back and re-think being in business.

Giving a guideline to folks that don't undestand how to price, is only hurting them and the rest of us that do know how. I have said it before... That guide line has been producing low-ballers and fly-by-nights for years.

Pricing my work is the easiest thing I do. It is elementary math.
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Mike, you can recite all the 101 on this you want. Its not changing, they are there and always will be.


What you have to ask yourself is would you rather have a closer price or the ridiculous wrong prices for stupid people to adopt and find out after they hurt you it was wrong?

Truly, it doesnt matter to me anymore because I educate the contractors in my area and we dont have nuts charging to little. The contractors in my area do the job to educate and teach each other about this and pass this info on to customers.

I see this list hurting alot of folks in other areas because guys use these ridiculous price list. Its bad, no question about it.
 
That list is a tool for newbies it helps them in the begining so with the proper knowledge so they will not drive prices down and go out of business. Just think to when you started did you know to charge xxx for a truck or XXX for a bus. I doubt it you most likely searched and found what others where charging and that was a starting point till you could do it on your own!
 
Larry Hinckley said:
Note the areas in red. They will respond to misconceptions. This guide was designed for those who had no idea of what to charge. The wording tells those who might use it that it is only a guide. Nothing is etched in stone. Robert is still waiting for suggestions on pricing. He has spent a lot of money trying to help people get started right. For those who have responded with helpful posts "Thank You", For the rest if you are really interested email Robert with your suggestions. He will listen. I promise you.



Last Updated: June 05, 2007
Prices were a lot lower!

Pricing is more of an art than it is a science. Salesmanship plays a major role in the amount you can get for a particular job. Some Contract Cleaners can get 10% to 100% more for the same job than their competitors. Pricing becomes even more confusing because people are entering the business with consumer quality pressure washers without insurance, workmen's compensation, office, or overhead expenses because they are operating from their homes on a part time basis. They do not have normal business expenses. But the customer liability is greater because a lack of insurance and workmen's compensation. And often poorer quality work.

This price guide should be used as a reference point. It is not a recipe that will guarantee that you will get every bid. It will have to be modified to fit the economic conditions of competition in your area. You will have to decide if you are going to bid on quality or price, or somewhere in between. The economic realities are that you cannot deliver a Cadillac for a Volkswagen Price. Companies that do end up in bankruptcy.

Every time you lose a bid ask the customer who they went with, what was the price, and why they did not buy from you. This will give you the information to start modifying this price guide to fit your market area. Often the customer will not give you this information but most people will give you some information. This is the start of your market survey so that you can adjust this price guide for you in your market area. If you are getting 100% of your bids you are too low. You need to be rejected about 20% of the time to assure that you are getting for most for your time and effort (what your market will bear).After a competitor has completed a job go by and see what kind of work he did and if possible the price he charged for it. Try to determine if your competitor has insurance, or workmen's compensation. You should include insurance and workmen's compensation certificates with your bids and explain the liability that people have if they choose a contractor that does not have this coverage.
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Larry, truthfully i see these prices respresent many year prior to 2007. The details need to be more specific driven. Scopes need to be listed, people can take these literal when they are broad.
 
Kory said:
That list is a tool for newbies it helps them in the begining so with the proper knowledge so they will not drive prices down and go out of business. Just think to when you started did you know to charge xxx for a truck or XXX for a bus. I doubt it you most likely searched and found what others where charging and that was a starting point till you could do it on your own!
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Actually, yes Kory. From day one I have known exactly what to price to be profitable and to cover my expenses. The only adjustments we have made were to keep raising those prices. Raising the prices won't cause me to lose money. Not knowing my costs upfront and pricing too low would have cost us dearly. How can a person not know his costs? If they know thier costs, then they can determine a price.

The problem with the list is that if the prices shown are below the operators costs, then yes they are pricing too low and will go out of business while hurting the rest of us trying to get realistic prices that are based on true numbers and not what some list said was a "going rate"

What is wrong with "going rate"? 9 out of 10 businesses fail. Most fail due to under capitalization. They fail from lack of funds. ie.. they did not price enough. So my answer to the question- What is wrong with charging the "going rate"? is this..... Because it is highly likely that it is the "going out of business" rate!

I am not trying to be an ass to all the new guys. I am merely stating that this guideline won't truly help them. They need to go to night school or take online classes to learn the basics of business if there is that much difficulty in figuring a price.

At best... they could change it to a guideline that shows average production rates cleaning different surfaces with different methods. That would be the hardest variable for a new guy to figure if he hasn't ever done a "truck" or "bus" etc. This would help better than stating a price to charge if insured versus not insured. That shouldn't even be considered.
 
I personally don't care if the new guys just starting out have problems or not. I started in 1996, and didn't have the internet to hold my hand while I got rolling. Didn't get it until 2003. I still have local guys call me looking for ideas, I have a ton of hours in learning this business, including pricing,..and I'm not interested in giving it away. Sharing with others who've been around is one thing,..giving info to the next hack is different. To me they need to earn their stripes first. Just because they register a name on a BBS doesn't give them instant credentials. If a list is to be made available at all,... make it available to those who at least complete a series of classes,... show proof of insurance or,......something.

And I actually think most guys probably price what they need to , to make a profit, and how much profit each is happy with can vary greatly. Giving the knuckle head down the street even an idea on what to charge is out of line. Because I think the target for this list is "qualified" new business's, the reality is this service is often looked at as a get rich quick business and to do anything to help them out is just stupid and really hurts the others who do it for "real".
Jeff
 
Hey Jeff I agree with you. There's way too much on the www now about how to start a company, pricing, methods, marketing ect. Unfortuanetly it's too late to do anything about it. That's why a lot of guys don't share much on the BBS's. I still give out some info but not NEARLY as much as I used to. If someone wants to come out with one of my crews for a day I'll help them all I can. But, if they just sit back and expect me to feed them everything I learned in 20 years of power washing their going to have to pay for it!
 
FCPWLLC said:
Actually, yes Kory. From day one I have known exactly what to price to be profitable and to cover my expenses. The only adjustments we have made were to keep raising those prices. Raising the prices won't cause me to lose money. Not knowing my costs upfront and pricing too low would have cost us dearly. How can a person not know his costs? If they know thier costs, then they can determine a price.

At some point you had to know what the going rate was or a ball park of what to charge other wise how or why would you have gotten into PWing.

The problem with the list is that if the prices shown are below the operators costs, then yes they are pricing too low and will go out of business while hurting the rest of us trying to get realistic prices that are based on true numbers and not what some list said was a "going rate"

What is wrong with "going rate"? 9 out of 10 businesses fail. Most fail due to under capitalization. They fail from lack of funds. ie.. they did not price enough. So my answer to the question- What is wrong with charging the "going rate"? is this..... Because it is highly likely that it is the "going out of business" rate!

I am not trying to be an ass to all the new guys. I am merely stating that this guideline won't truly help them. They need to go to night school or take online classes to learn the basics of business if there is that much difficulty in figuring a price.

At best... they could change it to a guideline that shows average production rates cleaning different surfaces with different methods. That would be the hardest variable for a new guy to figure if he hasn't ever done a "truck" or "bus" etc. This would help better than stating a price to charge if insured versus not insured. That shouldn't even be considered.
I agree it should only be a guideline! also there should be a regional price for cost of living type equasions.
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Most of the hacks are guys that left thier $12 an hour job and are happy they just gave them selves a 100% raise not knowing that they really just took a pay cut. They dont calculate the labor,chems, Ins., marketing, repair, supplies and the long list of other things. It used to take me an hour and a half to do the work I can do in 20 min. now but I still charge the same or more. I guess my thoughts are If "DELCO" or any others like my local guy that says charge $50.00 an hour ar going to tell new guys this stuff it should at least point them in the right direction. If not for their sake for the industry's sake.
 
Henry Bockman said:
Hey Jeff I agree with you. There's way too much on the www now about how to start a company, pricing, methods, marketing ect. Unfortuanetly it's too late to do anything about it. That's why a lot of guys don't share much on the BBS's. I still give out some info but not NEARLY as much as I used to. If someone wants to come out with one of my crews for a day I'll help them all I can. But, if they just sit back and expect me to feed them everything I learned in 20 years of power washing their going to have to pay for it!
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Henry, if you want to know anything? just call me, I will tell anyone the info. If they know what they are worth its better.
 
I have had a few local competitors talk about the price guide from Delco and they know that it is an old price list but we all agree that the prices need to be raised so anyone new finding it will be charging better prices instead of the lowball prices.

I have not had a customer mention that site's prices so far, so good.

If I did, I would mention that those prices were made many, many years ago when gas was under a dollar a gallon, milk was $2.00 per gallon and chemicals were 1/2 the price of today's prices. I think that will help them understand a little bit.

Also it really depends on your business and how much you need to make to survive and stay in business, not what a company thinks that sells equipment and chemicals. If you charged those prices you would not stay in business too long to keep buying from them.

Just my opinion.





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Kory said:
Most of the hacks are guys that left thier $12 an hour job and are happy they just gave them selves a 100% raise not knowing that they really just took a pay cut. They dont calculate the labor,chems, Ins., marketing, repair, supplies and the long list of other things. It used to take me an hour and a half to do the work I can do in 20 min. now but I still charge the same or more. I guess my thoughts are If "DELCO" or any others like my local guy that says charge $50.00 an hour ar going to tell new guys this stuff it should at least point them in the right direction. If not for their sake for the industry's sake.
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Kory... We got into pressure washing because we saw a need for a professional service. Going rate NEVER enters my mind because it has no bearing on MY business. Like I said earlier, going rates are quite often "going out of business" rates. It is of no concern to me what company A prices his work at when its Owner is only taking a $40K salary. I am taking a $110K salary so in no way can I price with that company. I have to price based on my comanies expenses and margins. This is where the list comes in as damaging. If my company had used those numbers to price, we would not make payroll. If Company A uses those numbers, they may not make payroll either but not know it until it is too late. How does Comapny A losing money affect me? I have to overcome all the customers objections to our pricing because they have been getting good service for less in the past. We, as legitimate, knowlegable businesses have to work harder to secure the accounts at the proper rate because of lists like this or advice from local vendor. That local Vendor has no stake in keeping Company A in business. Company B and C will start up and buy more equipment/chems and they will advise them on "Going" rate and cycle starts again.

I started a Business that I felt there was a need for. I didn't wake up one day and think I'd like to spray water. It is business! We would start any other business if we see a need for the service. I am not in water spraying business. I am in the marketing and managing a service company business. That is the largest difference in most of the comanies out there that look to a list like this for guidance. They should be looking to the Library or taking a Night class on accounting or economics etc. Instead they are buying a Home Depot special and then asking "What's the going rate?"

All I am really trying to convey is that No price that is given in that guideline will help. Even if those rates were the same $300/hr I shoot for, they would be wrong advice to a guy that doesn't understand Business fundamentals. The guy would only make it work for so long. Especially if he can't SELL. So it isn't that the guideline is too low on numbers but that it doesn't help at all.
 
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