Amerika the Beautiful

That second video was bull sh.. a mob attacking the cops is not the way to handle it. what you're saying is that we should all act brutally when the cops do. good way to descend into anarchy.
That first video the cops were dead wrong. in the second you couldnt see what the guy on the ground was doing. The one cop threw a couple short punches, I understand that, as Ive seen guys resisting and some force is necessary to make him stop resisting. but the crowd attacking like that was dead wrong.
ive seen a lot of idiot cops. my wife used to work in the PD of one of the cityies here and saw a lot more. She came away with the opinion that the majority were in it for the power it gave them over others. So Im not a big fan, but saying that to attack them is the right way to handle it is just stupid no matter what you think of cops in general.
 
Jon, why don't you tell this guy it's better to stand around and watch rather than descend into anarchy. Oh, wait, you can't. He's dead.

kellythomas.jpg


Here, you can listen to his last words calling for his Dad to help. While a bunch of good citizens (non-anarchists) listen to him die and just talk about it. Get real. If I see this I will intervene and it won't be pretty. I am teaching my children and grandchildren to do the same.

These are not the police of my youth. These are enemies of the people. They will eventually be stopped when we this worthless generation of selfish Bentley rapping wannabe/Jersey Shore addicted wimps die off and a new hardened generation emerges having grown up with this type of abuse.

I wonder if the Roman soldiers were yelling "stop resisting!" while they beat the thorns on Jesus' head. After all he was a criminal by the ruling Jewish leaders and deserved whatever he got right?

 
a lil while back I had a local officer pull me over for speeding as he reach the back bumper of my truck he pulled his weapon.I saw him do it in the side mirror and got pi$$ed off that he even consider that an option for a traffic stop that took place less than 100 ft from where he got behind me.
The moron actually told me he felt threatened by my truck and was just getting himself prepared in case I did something crazy.
1st he illegally pulled me over he was hidden and didn't have 500ft of visibility as required by state law, 2ND he unholstered his weapon for a traffic stop, 3rd he asked do you know why I pulled you over? ......really that is the dumbest question........Um,you pulled me over because you thought I had doughnuts.

There are very few officers who are fit to do the job the training the receive is geared toward harming anyone and everyone to stop a preceived non existing threat 95% of the time.I do know some good cops who know how to interact with the public they serve because they understand that is their job...to protect and serve.
 
All over the country concealed weapons permit instructors (mostly retired cops) are training people that you must never draw your weapon unless you have to undoubtedly have to use it.

Many states make drawing it and NOT firing it a misdemeanor or even a felony usually referred to as "brandishing" or other terms in other states.

Yet the police pull their weapons on us "subjects" on a daily basis in the name of "percieved threats".

Again I say this is poor training, combined with a lack of concern for the rights, concerns and fears of citizens along with a big dose of superiority complex topped off with the icing of a coward's heart that makes this so volatile and dangerous to us.

Police work is PUBLIC SERVICE. If you aren't willing to sacrifice then you aren't worthy to serve. Our military put their lives on the line ever day for pennies on the dollar for what cops get paid and do it in 140 degree heat and freezing nights. This might put it a little more in perspective. This question was put forth on a Gun forum with a lot of US Marines:

hammer45
Banned		Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 197

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Marine infantry danger vs State police job danger? Which is the smart choice?
Hey all. I am considering going into US MARINE CORPS Reserve infantry 03-11 as a rifleman for 6 years. I get my 4 year degree this year and want to be a state trooper. Will I be safer with the training that I will get in the infantry for the one time that I am in a bad spot (Such as getting called to bank robbery, traffic stop gone bad etc? Will I be in more danger going into LE work with no military or going to Iraq and afgan with an infantry unit? I also get the pref. points on the tests. I was consdiering marine corps fire rescue or 03-11 rifleman. Any ideas? I have allways wanted to join the Marines but my love for police work comes first.

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And here were some of the responses:


warmgun
Member		Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Central Florida
Age: 63
Posts: 152

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I hope you don't take this as mean sprited but...

Your reason for wanting to join the Corps isn't one that lends itself well to Corps values. I suggest you not join.

An old 0311.
__________________
Semper Fi

RVN 11-'67--12-'68


sophijo
Member		Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,470

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Usmc
....its not about safety.

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Brian48
Member		Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Moonbat city (Boston), MA
Posts: 1,599

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Quote:
Originally Posted by warmgun
I hope you don't take this as mean sprited but...

Your reason for wanting to join the Corps isn't one that lends itself well to Corps values. I suggest you not join.

An old 0311.

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+1. In the Corps, its' not about you. I don't suggest joining either.
__________________
Proud to have served.

[URL="http://forums.1911forum.com/member.php?u=50703"]wccountryboy

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I tend to agree with those that think you need to re-think your motives for entering military service. The recuring theme I see in your posts is "what's in it for me"... will it make ME a better cop in the future, what are
the risks to ME, preferance points on testing, can I get into the black belt program, etc. Military service is not about the individual, its about sacrifice and being part of something larger than self.
I wouldn't want somebody with the attituides you've demonstrated on my teams or in my company. Its a liability on the battlefield.
Prior to enlisting, I would do some serious soul searching. Find out what your motivations are. As a Marine, those you work with may very well have to put their lives in your hands. Is that a burden you're willing to bear, and are you worthy of it?
__________________
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast

tmbrwolf40
Member		Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: michigan
Age: 44
Posts: 458

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seems less and less people focus on the hole duty honer and commitment! instead its either a ticket punch, or career enhancement.
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Madcap72
Member		Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mill Creek Wa
Posts: 1,304

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I guess it didnt click. Stay the ever loving hell away from the Marines!

I think some one already touched upon this, but your primary concern is not f'ing yourself up so bad you jeopardize your LEO career.

Well you can do that just going to Marine Corps boot camp!

My main concern is you get in a gun fight in Iraq, and subconsciously sandbag not wanting to endanger your career in law!
__________________
0311 Primary
0331 Secondary
0351/0352 OTJ
Semper.

Noklue3
Administrator		Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,165

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammer45
Hey all. I am considering going into US MARINE CORPS Reserve infantry 03-11 as a rifleman for 6 years. I get my 4 year degree this year and want to be a state trooper. Will I be safer with the training that I will get in the infantry for the one time that I am in a bad spot (Such as getting called to bank robbery, traffic stop gone bad etc? Will I be in more danger going into LE work with no military or going to Iraq and afgan with an infantry unit? I also get the pref. points on the tests. I was consdiering marine corps fire rescue or 03-11 rifleman. Any ideas? I have allways wanted to join the Marines but my love for police work comes first.

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Don't join then. You will not be well received to put it mildly. I would not want you and that attitude as my OIC or the guy next to me..
USMC is First aways and forever. If you can't buy that, you don't qualify.
__________________
Semper Fi 1968-1972
Goodnight Chesty Puller, where ever you are !
Last edited by Noklue3; 12-27-2008 at 03:24 PM.

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Noklue3
Administrator		Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,165

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This is done.

You have no idea what it is to be a Marine or an LEO for that matter, it seems.

Please consider another career choice.
__________________
Semper Fi 1968-1972
Goodnight Chesty Puller, where ever you are !
Last edited by Noklue3; 12-28-2008 at 04:16 PM.

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I said the second video. Those cops weren't out of control, but the mob did get out of control. What the cops did in the first video was uncalled for and should have cost them their jobs and maybe some jail time.
What the mob did should cost some of them jail time. What Nick said is that this is how these kind of cops should be dealt with. That is wrong. They should be dealt with with criminal charges. but the polititians and city managers are too cowed by the unions to take real action.
More and more you read and hear about people calling for killing cops, including media darlings like Occupy Oakland. we had 4 cops killed last year in my county. Don't you think they may be a little skittish about some big redneck in a truck? JK squirtgun.
Society is wrong when they allow people to call for the killing of cops. Cops are wrong when they react that way to traffic stops. but this whole issue isnt going to be stopped by a mob beating up cops like in the second video.
Read what I said, many cops go into the field for the power it gives them. We need to weed them out so that only ones that want to serve and protect, serve.
 
Hey Jon or is it John? Maybe your french I dont know. I did not say anywhere in my post to Kill cops, so dont streach the truth here. All I said is they should get what they dish out all across the USA, I have 4 family members who are NYC police officers and they know just how I feel about this.

You obviously are a Non Combatant which works for you, but most people cant stand buy while these criminals with badges get away with brutality and murder. I just read in the NY Times about a few NYC cops who were just caught running illegal guns into the very city with the stricktest gun laws in the country. They are corupt and they could give 2 shits about you or your family.

So you can call 911 and wait for one of these scumbags to come and help you, I prefer to protect myself and my family the way I see fit. I always thought you were a little strange JON but now theres no doubt.

PS
Dont put words in my post unless you can back it up !!
 
Scott Stone said:
Here is the deal. I am all for officers using force, when necessary. I did not play the video with sound, because it muddies what is going on for me. From what I could see, it looked like someone that was not combative at all, that the officers drug out of the car, and then he had five officers on top of him handcuffing him. I never saw the guy throw a punch, or put up any kind of resistance. I am still trying to figure out why the one coward was kicking the guy in the head, after he was down, and thoroughly subdued. It just defies logic and common sense.

John, nothing personal, but most of us live in an area where law abiding citizens are allowed to have a gun, vs. New York, where only criminals own a gun. In my opinion, it is my responsibility to protect my family, and I will. If I had to rely on the Police department to come out when I felt threatened, to protect me, then I would be dead. It takes a minimum of 3 minutes to respond to a call for aid. There are a lot of things that can happen in those three minutes that could make it so that minutes matter no more. I refuse to put myself in that position.
The other cases that you through out on why we should have PD are red herrings. They are distracting from the original discussion. Cops do not typically stop crimes in action. They usually resolve crimes after they have occurred.
Click to expand...
There's one word Scott that is critical in policing that deters crime and if your trained on this you would know it. It's called omnipresence(probably spelled wrong). That is something that law abiding towns all over the country including yours need. The mere presents of a police officer can deter a crime from happening. If in your town you have a 100 officers assigned to it and then suddenly the powers to be what to take a high percentage of these cops and assign them to a different town (as long as its within the same Police Dep't your community would be outraged because the safety and security of your town drops. Another thing that the untrained do not realize is the part of policing that most people hate but there towns love it. Ticket revenue. There's alot of dynamics Scott then just thinking you'll take a firearm to defend your family which is honorable... But what do you do if your out Ppwerwashing and a love one suddenly goes into cardiac arrest?? Over here we carry defibrillators in our cars and we have all used them at one time or a other.

So there is no red Herring.. These are the facts. You can make the argument that there are some bad cops but to generalize that the majority of them is not needed or there just bad dudes in general.... Go back to that word "Omnipresence" without that the local street punk will drive recklessly, the gangs will come in, the undesirables will appear....and what you have now is a lawless society.
 
The Cleaner said:
Hey Jon or is it John? Maybe your french I dont know. I did not say anywhere in my post to Kill cops, so dont streach the truth here. All I said is they should get what they dish out all across the USA, I have 4 family members who are NYC police officers and they know just how I feel about this.

You obviously are a Non Combatant which works for you, but most people cant stand buy while these criminals with badges get away with brutality and murder. I just read in the NY Times about a few NYC cops who were just caught running illegal guns into the very city with the stricktest gun laws in the country. They are corupt and they could give 2 shits about you or your family.

So you can call 911 and wait for one of these scumbags to come and help you, I prefer to protect myself and my family the way I see fit. I always thought you were a little strange JON but now theres no doubt.

PS
Dont put words in my post unless you can back it up !!
Click to expand...
Hey Nick I wasn't posting anything that came from what you said except for the ah oh part because people get fired up over policing. Any of those above bad cops you mentioned should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law...and then some. Cops should be held to a higher standard no doubt which is for example let's say the get bagged for a DWI.. And it does happen.. The end result they at least here get fired upon conviction.. If a cop smokes pot and fails a urinalysis test-- fired. They should be held to a higher standard..

I know cops who got punched out by other cops away from a scene..and you know what? They deserved it.

Yea your right I'm probably a bit strange because I practice what I preach. I didn't write many tickets because I was no angel myself. The majority of young Dwi's I dealt with I Impounded there cars and took them home to there parents so they can get spoken to by them.. I didn't ever pretend to do things exactly by the book.. Yet I think I was a good cop when I served.
 
Tony your generalizing. Hey look I retired from this life. In the 80's the money was garbage for cops. My parents wanted me to stay in school and get an engineering degree. I wish I could have stayed that course but school work wasn't for me. The Military life I liked and Policing I fell into. I wanted to be a fireman but I did so much better out of all the civil service test I have ever taken(took quite a few) on the Police test and the highest grade I ever received was for the Air Traffic controllers civil service test.. And that one I turned down because I wanted the ability to be outside.

Besides helping people, some friendships I made... I never wanted to be a PD boss. Didn't even bother taking promotional test. Most Police officers I knew were the good ones. As for the bad cops Tony... We already have a family member that dealt with them. My uncle Pete who was a boss in the IAD division locked up the bad cops..

And this may be biased but the best PD in this country and they don't get paid anywhere in line from PD's around them is the Police Dep't I did 2 yrs with..NYPD. Who also was known to have the best Police academy in the world.

The other states I couldn't tell ya but NYPD was top notch during the raging crack days of the 80's. Yes there were some bad cops then to.... But I'm honored I served the USN and NYPD... Beats any college paper degree.. To me.. Back then.
 
The Cleaner said:
Hey Jon or is it John? Maybe your french I dont know. I did not say anywhere in my post to Kill cops, so dont streach the truth here. All I said is they should get what they dish out all across the USA, I have 4 family members who are NYC police officers and they know just how I feel about this.

You obviously are a Non Combatant which works for you, but most people cant stand buy while these criminals with badges get away with brutality and murder. I just read in the NY Times about a few NYC cops who were just caught running illegal guns into the very city with the stricktest gun laws in the country. They are corupt and they could give 2 shits about you or your family.

So you can call 911 and wait for one of these scumbags to come and help you, I prefer to protect myself and my family the way I see fit. I always thought you were a little strange JON but now theres no doubt.

PS
Dont put words in my post unless you can back it up !!
Click to expand...

Your exact statement was "this is how they should be dealt with!" and you posted the video of the mob. I fail to see how that is putting words into your mouth. No where did I say you advocated killing cops.
take the time to read what I said. As for me being French or strange, that is as stupid as statement as you have ever posted, Nick. Take the time to actually read what is said and stop reacting to what you skim over. I feel the same way as you do about the way to protect my family. This wasn't personal about you. Your name was mentioned because you posted the statement and the video.
 
What Nick said is that this is how these kind of cops should be dealt with. That is wrong. They should be dealt with with criminal charges. but the polititians and city managers are too cowed by the unions to take real action.
More and more you read and hear about people calling for killing cops,

This statement made in this thread is directed towards people? What people are you refering to? I am not going to waste my time talking to you about your liberal stance on how other people should deal with this. You are the typical wuss that stands by and expects someone else to deal with it, this is a free country and I dont need a Douche like you to tell me how or what I should feel about the Atrocities brought on by the very people we hire to Protect & Serve.
 
the people mentioned were people in general, not you. My mistake. I should have separated the sentences better. I didn't realize that placing two sentences between the mention of your name and the sentence with people was a compositional error. You apparently need liberal douches like me to point out your lack of reading skill.
Wow. all my life I've thought that liberals were the people I argued with, now I find i'm one of them because I don
t like mobs beating on cops. Don't like cops beating on anyone either but failed to comment on what I thought of the first video. I better not or I'll have Tony threatening me too.
 
I wouldn't threaten you Jon.

As much as the majority here will hate to believe this, the kind of beatings and abuse that we are now seeing on these videos has been going on with minorities for a long time. Nobody cared. All minorities are guilty anyway, right?

I'm trying to raise awareness of this. We need to start talking to our friends and family about this and generate some mainstream discontent.

It's happening here in Las Vegas. Even the older generation is talking to the news disgusted with it.

And John T, the biggest deterrent to crime is this right here:

2011-02-06_14-05-01_807-1.jpg


No real criminal gives a crap about police presence. That's just more propaganda spread around to raise taxes for the police union to spend. I used to live on Columbus St, and in the Tenderloin in San Francisco, and off Fruitvale Ave in Oakland. Believe me there was a LOT of police presence and nobody I was around gave a damn. And they were all strapped.

If America would wake up and decriminalize activity that harms no one but the person doing the activity we might be able to work in this problem and the police could actually perform a service that is worth something.

Imagine if all drugs were legal as long as you ingested them inside and kept off the streets driving or harassing other people. Then the police could concentrate on criminals who actually do harm to others.

If they didn't spend so much time hiding out around corners worrying about some guy getting his **** ****** in a seedy hotel by a hooker they could spend more time trying to catch the burglar that they don't even bother to look for now. Did you know that they don't even take fingerprints anymore for burglaries!!!!! WTH???? But they have plenty of time to hide out in a hotel room with surveillance equipment waiting for some poor John to give up $20 to some skanky undercover police d**e.

Shelly had an accident a few years ago. It took them over 3 hours to show up. There were injuries and one woman was taken to the hospital by ambulance. Shelly didn't want to leave because she was worried that one of the other parties would try to make it to look like it was her fault and she thought leaving was against the law. THREE HOURS!!! At least 5 police cars drove by her while she waited. When they arrived they gave her a sheet of paper and told her to write everything down and give it to the insurance company. No investigation, no report. Just a ticket for the one lady who caused it. This is insane.

Too much time is wasted harassing people for NON crimes. It's time to shake off the yoke the government has burdened us with and enjoy the freedom that was intended for the citizens of this country.
 
Yea play nice Tony..lol. Bad cops should be prosecuted to the full extent the law allows.. Cops aren't the enemies but I can tell you this. One bad Cop hurts more good cops then most can imagine. Your jaded because of these bad cops and not saying your wrong about that. Cops are expected to do there job and most cops I know did there job. That's to be expected and good cops know there public servants. Bad cops are always the news stories as they should be but it's unfair to think most cops are like that..

If your suggesting to advocate that people should take the law into there own hands... Personally I think thats extremely dangerous. I support the right to bare arms and to defend yourself at all times but to hand out justice is a tough pill to swallow.. Maybe your not saying that... To tell you the truth I'm not clear what it is your trying to say here.. So I'll back out now.. It was fun killing some time.
 
Hey Nick I think I crossed up if you were posting to me or Jon.. But it's all good bro.. Maybe I'll catch up with you in Florida down the road since my parents have now have purchased a home there and I may do the same within the next few years.. I love Florida!!
 
The law IS in our own hands John.

Unless you can find a cop to follow my family around 24 hrs per day to protect us.

JUSTICE is a responsibility that falls on our government.

God always allowed self protection but did not always allow the personal dispense of justice.

We have a government that has criminalized actions that are moral issues, better monitored and punished by family and peers than the government.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
The most important thing for a citizen to realize is that cops don't carry weapons for your or my protection. They carry to protect themselves. So if you expect an officer to protect you before he protects himself you're in for an awakening.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
AP) – A sting operation resulted in the arrest today of five New York Police Department officers on charges that they smuggled firearms, cigarettes, and slot machines they thought were stolen, federal authorities said. The officers were among 12 people charged in a criminal complaint unsealed in federal court in Manhattan. Three retired NYPD officers and a New Jersey corrections officer are among the other defendants.

The arrests stem from an FBI-NYPD investigation that began in 2009 when an informant tipped off authorities that an NYPD officer was interested in making money by transporting stolen goods. The informant and an undercover officer began supplying the defendants and others cigarettes, purportedly stolen out of state, for resale, the criminal complaint says. Later in the alleged conspiracy, the defendants agreed to transport 20 weapons from New Jersey to New York using rented mini-vans, the complaint says. It's not the only NYPD scandal in the news.


Stuff like this has been going on for decades and we only hear about the ones that they cant cover-up !! Remember the late 70's earl 80's with these 2 beauties:

Two former NYPD detectives who doubled as hitmen for the mob are again waging a fight to appeal convictions that condemned them to life in prison – and late wiseguy John Gotti is playing a central role. Attorneys for ex-cops Louis Eppolito and Stephen Caracappa are arguing that former Luchese crime family underboss Anthony “Gaspipe”

The coruption is endless and they all feel that once they put the badge on they are no longer one of us, they are above the law and invinsible. I am willing to bet that more that half of the LEO across the country are corupt and should be in prison and not on the streets. I am also sure that me and a few others are on a list somewhere thanks to the Patriot Act, what a sham that was. 9-11 gave them the right to do whatever the hell they please to do and you have no say about it !!! All they need to do is say that you look suspicious and away you go for an anal probe. I need to chill out because I will be traveling soon to NY for a wedding and Chiquita Emanues is going to be checking my ID to make sure I'm not a terrorist.
 
jon chapman said:
the people mentioned were people in general, not you. My mistake. I should have separated the sentences better. I didn't realize that placing two sentences between the mention of your name and the sentence with people was a compositional error. You apparently need liberal douches like me to point out your lack of reading skill.
Wow. all my life I've thought that liberals were the people I argued with, now I find i'm one of them because I don
t like mobs beating on cops. Don't like cops beating on anyone either but failed to comment on what I thought of the first video. I better not or I'll have Tony threatening me too.
Click to expand...

Trust me little man I have no problem with my reading skills, and no one was threatening you, we all know that your no threat.
 
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