Formal request to add 2 more categories

Al Patterson said:
as a Born Again Christian....it is not imposable to know what the Truth really is.

Simply put the "Truth is God's Word"
some just pull things out of content for their own benefit.
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As a born again christian AL, may I ask how many times your able to sin and become born again with a clean slate, before GOD sends ya packin?

Seems real easy to be forgivin, but not as easy to not have sinned in the first place?
 
Yep, real easy to be forgiven all it took was a sinless and perfect life to be sacrificed.
 
Tony Shelton said:
Al, I don't know how gravity works. It would seem logical that a spinning object would throw things off of it rather than make things stick to it.

But I know this truth - - If I jump off a building, I'm going to fall to the ground - - That's basically all I really need to know.

I don't know exactly what God wants from us. I don't even know if God doesn't like smoking, some drinking, some drug use, some types of worship, other things his law never touches on, etc, etc, the list goes on and on. There was plenty of similar stuff going on in the old testament with some of his biggest characters in the Bible yet God seemed to still see fit to use them in his plan.

But I do know this truth. IF the bible is true (and I believe it to be true) God wants us to love and respect him, love and respect his son, and love and respect our neighbors. If we (as Christians) work towards those three things his spirit will not let us die in sins that we simply don't understand.

For example if I love my neighbor (18 yr old girl) I'm not going to conspire to have sex with her. First because that would not be showing love for my wife. Second that would not be showing love for my neighbor (with the chance of an illegitimate child) and rising on up to the Third level, that would not be showing love for God who (out of love for us) gave us the guideline that we should not commit adultery to keep us out of a LOT of EXTRA misery.

Can we know all truth? Or are the three truths above enough for us to make the right decisions that are pleasing to God?

I don't know all the truth Al. I don't think I need to know it all.
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You are misunderstanding my meaning of "What is the Truth" when it concerns Gods Salvation.
I by no means understand the everything in the bible and in Gods eyes....My understanding is not even close to what he expects it to be.
But the "Truth" I speak of is....I do know what it means to be saved by the grace of God.
So what is so simple as the plan of Gods Salvation and Gods Grace for forgiveness so that I can sin daily...weather a bad thought enters my mind or I actually physically sin..."God will never send me packin"

As for Nicks response to me....I know that I live in sin daily and I will die in sin and once I have been saved...I will always be saved by the Grace of God if I accept the gift of Salvation.
You can only be saved once and It can never be taken away.
 
Al Patterson said:
You are misunderstanding my meaning of "What is the Truth" when it concerns Gods Salvation.
I by no means understand the everything in the bible and in Gods eyes....My understanding is not even close to what he expects it to be.
But the "Truth" I speak of is....I do know what it means to be saved by the grace of God.
So what is so simple as the plan of Gods Salvation and Gods Grace for forgiveness so that I can sin daily...weather a bad thought enters my mind or I actually physically sin..."God will never send me packin"

As for Nicks response to me....I know that I live in sin daily and I will die in sin and once I have been saved...I will always be saved by the Grace of God if I accept the gift of Salvation.
You can only be saved once and It can never be taken away.
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So let me get this straight, if I am born again and I commit a horrible crime against another, I simply get born again, again or i'm covered from the first time?
 
Nick, when I was young I didn't swear at my Mom much because I was afraid of the trouble I would get in. My decisions were made based on fear of punishment.

Today I don't swear at my mom because I love her and appreciate the sacrifices she made for me. I am no longer in fear of the punishment because I am free from that fear now. (Just as I am free as a Christian from the fear of separation from God for eternity)

During those early years I swore at my mom more than a few times and got plenty of trouble for it. I was truly sorry afterwords many times and thank God she didn't disown me when I made those kinds of mistakes. If our own imperfect parents could still love us after the stuff we did imagine how much more a perfect parent like God could love us.

Now, I've graduated to NEVER swearing at her at all. It took years and LOVE to make that transition. I'm just glad she still kept taking me back each time.

I think we are all on our own timetable. Only God knows our hearts. Only God knows if we are on the path to graduating to a LOVE centered devotion to him or if we are still doing everything we do out of fear.

He's patient with us and gives us the time we need.

Sometimes God puts us in a certain place because, at the time, we need to be there. I think that is why I was raised in a church that believes that if you don't do everything perfectly to the best of your ability you will go to hell. I needed that fear as a young person. If I didn't have that fear I'm sure I would have been dead by now by an overdose or something.

If I didn't have that fear I don't think the true JOY of FREEDOM that I understand from God's word today would produce the happiness that our family enjoys now.

It's amazing to look back and see the maze our lives have been and how each turn has brought us to where we are.

I bet if you look back you could find something about your catholic upbringing that was beneficial to you in spite of how you feel about it now.
 
The Cleaner said:
So let me get this straight, if I am born again and I commit a horrible crime against another, I simply get born again, again or i'm covered from the first time?
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Personaly ...I believe if one confuses that they are saved and they committed a horrible crime against another...I think they would have to question weather they have really accepted God's Salvation
Mathew 6:43 ¶ For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
He says you cannot serve two masters...
Matthew 6:24
24No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

You cannot ride the fence...you are either saved by the grace of God or not.
Once Spiritually Born Again 'you' are then "Sealed" by The Holy Spirit and cannot fall out of Salvation but you can fall away from Relationship to Him such as "The Prodigal Son".( Jesus Promised He would Never Leave nor Forsake His Own and does not lie to HimSelf.)
 
Nick, when I was young I didn't swear at my Mom much because I was afraid of the trouble I would get in. My decisions were made based on fear of punishment.

Today I don't swear at my mom because I love her and appreciate the sacrifices she made for me. I am no longer in fear of the punishment because I am free from that fear now. (Just as I am free as a Christian from the fear of separation from God for eternity)

During those early years I swore at my mom more than a few times and got plenty of trouble for it. I was truly sorry afterwords many times and thank God she didn't disown me when I made those kinds of mistakes. If our own imperfect parents could still love us after the stuff we did imagine how much more a perfect parent like God could love us.

Now, I've graduated to NEVER swearing at her at all. It took years and LOVE to make that transition. I'm just glad she still kept taking me back each time.

I think we are all on our own timetable. Only God knows our hearts. Only God knows if we are on the path to graduating to a LOVE centered devotion to him or if we are still doing everything we do out of fear.

He's patient with us and gives us the time we need.

Sometimes God puts us in a certain place because, at the time, we need to be there. I think that is why I was raised in a church that believes that if you don't do everything perfectly to the best of your ability you will go to hell. I needed that fear as a young person. If I didn't have that fear I'm sure I would have been dead by now by an overdose or something.

If I didn't have that fear I don't think the true JOY of FREEDOM that I understand from God's word today would produce the happiness that our family enjoys now.

It's amazing to look back and see the maze our lives have been and how each turn has brought us to where we are.

I bet if you look back you could find something about your catholic upbringing that was beneficial to you in spite of how you feel about it now.
 
The beauty of the Grace vs. works conundrum. Perhaps, salvation comes through a combination of both? For instance, you need to accept the atonement of Christ, but in order to accept that atonement, you really need to become one with Christ, since in the Bible it says, "if ye are not one, ye are not mine." Meaning we all need to be intent on becoming like Christ, yet, we know that, in reality, it is impossible, because we are imperfect. So, we also have the gift and blessing of repentance. Mind you, repentance is a work, and is required, if it wasn't then Christ would not ask for people to repent. It also allows us to make restitution for those things that cannot simply be replaced, and in my mind, pure grace would not require any effort on our part.
 
Scott Stone said:
The beauty of the Grace vs. works conundrum. Perhaps, salvation comes through a combination of both? For instance, you need to accept the atonement of Christ, but in order to accept that atonement, you really need to become one with Christ, since in the Bible it says, "if ye are not one, ye are not mine." Meaning we all need to be intent on becoming like Christ, yet, we know that, in reality, it is impossible, because we are imperfect. So, we also have the gift and blessing of repentance. Mind you, repentance is a work, and is required, if it wasn't then Christ would not ask for people to repent. It also allows us to make restitution for those things that cannot simply be replaced, and in my mind, pure grace would not require any effort on our part.
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Good post Scott.
 
Enjoyed reading this thread!!

As a Born-Again Christian I am elated to see how this thread has evolved since it began. Went from many nay-sayers and grew to the point where several of you have shown true leadership and been teaching others. WOW!!

Seems as if this thread has become exactly what you had envisioned the new catagory to be. I'd say from the posts I've been privledged to read that the catagories presented would certainly have their place here despite the "Doubting Thomas's".

Thanks Al for being 'Bold as a Lion' with your faith. May God bless you with a double portion!!
 
Thanks

Wanted to say thanks to Tony and Scott as well for their teaching and sharing of the Word. As for me, business is soooooo much better when I let Jesus take the reins of my company. "He's the best business man I ever met." (a para-quote from Norville Hayes)
 
:deadhorse:
 
:banghead: Gotta love organized religion ! :deadhorse: I am with Lou on this one!
 
Oasis said:
:banghead: Gotta love organized religion ! :deadhorse: I am with Lou on this one!
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In a way I agree with you! People need less "religion" and get back to more Jesus. Religion, organized or what have you, is based on "man-made" rules and regulations. Being a Christian isn't about religion, it's really quite simple.

If you'd like to know more, PM me.... :welcome:
 
Religion, any religion, is just a belief system. Even my evil atheistic friend Lou has a religion because he has a belief. Just because people have differing views of the organization of religions does not make them wrong, right good or bad. It is how people implement what they believe that is far more important. My view is God, of you choose to believe in God is not a person or entity with a multiple personify disorder, but is a God of order and so can only have religion that represents truth and order.
Quite honestly, I can see how people can choose to believe there is no God, because there are so many confusing, amd contradictory views in the world that it boggles the mine. In just Christian religions alone there are over 900 belief systems. That does not sound like a God of order to me.
 
Hose Jockey said:
In a way I agree with you! People need less "religion" and get back to more Jesus. Religion, organized or what have you, is based on "man-made" rules and regulations. Being a Christian isn't about religion, it's really quite simple.

If you'd like to know more, PM me.... :welcome:
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Its stuff to stand up when you are a minority and you know you are going to catch a lot of flack.
Here is no different than the world we live in.
Christians can be at virtually any gathering with there is 5 or more people (in person or on the Internet)
and you will always have someone says its not the place or the time (to share the Gospel)
If it was up the the Carnal World we live in....The only place we should talk about God is our Home and our Church.
Unfortunately, God commanded us to Share his Gospel of Salvation to the world

Mark 2:17 And hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

1 Timothy 1:15
15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

This is not what I said.....its just the Word of God...
Its up to each individual to weather they want to Believe and Accept His Word or not.
 
God gave an organized religion to mankind years ago. It was called "The Law". It can be found in the first five books of the OT. It was so organized, it told the Israelites when they must work and when they must rest. It was so organized it specified meticulous sacrifices that had to be made at certain times. It told them who they could and couldn't have sex with and was pretty specific.

Was that what God wanted for mankind who he made in his image to walk with and talk with in the garden? Did he make us to hold the hammer over our heads with five books of rules?

What about the guys before Moses? What was their "organized" religion? I looked and looked and lo and behold they didn't have and organized religion.

How can that be? Isn't God just waiting to strike us down for not practicing religion to his satisfaction? How did he go 3000 years without ANY organization of his worship? How was it possible that he found Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses to be righteous when they DIDN'T EVEN HAVE ANY RULES????????????

It would be easy to be righteous if you didn't have any rules RIGHT??????

Why is it such a difficult concept to believe that THIS IS THE WAY HE ALWAYS INTENDED IT TO BE? Why is it so hard for us to believe that we no longer have any rules?

Is it possible that we, today, live under the same Law that allowed Noah and Abraham to be considered "good" or "righteous" in God's sight?

Is it possible that today we live under a law that says "Love God and Love your neighbor" and if you live your life with those two things in the forefront you can't help but please your maker?

How do you "Love God". It starts by looking around you and seeing the complexity of a city during rush hour and comprehending that what you are seeing is NOTHING compared to the complexity of your own body. That city had to have planners and creators to make it work. So did you.

Once you come to that realization then you have to ask yourself. "Why am I here"? and "What does he want from me"? That's where his word comes in. That's when you need to delve into it and find out the answers to those questions.

The book won't tell you the answers. But an acquaintance with the book will allow you to find out the answers to those questions on your own with the help of the Holy Spirit.

By the time you've found those answers you will have learned about a God that loves you so much that he was willing to give of himself to be born as a child, raised in this same world you live in and then allow sinful men to nail his body to the cross in a disgusting manner. Then with that information you can begin to learn how to love others in a similar manner.

Sometimes loving others in that similar manner means the we need to understand that it might take 900 kinds of organized religion to meet the needs of all the cultures, races, intellectual levels and spiritual levels of all who follow Christ. Some of those will reject me for even saying that. But I won't reject them. They are just at a different point in their walk with God than I am.

Maybe I'm the one who's wrong. But I don't have to worry about that. My God who sent his son to die for me knows where my heart is and he won't leave me stranded on my path.

If you have faith and trust in him, he won't leave you stranded either. Whether you're kneeling at a bench listening to a latin prayer, passing snakes around, singing acapella, dancing in the aisles or sitting on a quiet hillside praying alone - he won't leave you stranded.

Why do you think Christianity spread so fast? The "Good News" wasn't about a new method of worship or a new list of rules. It was the annunciation that all the new rules would be written on your heart, by the finger of God. Just like the original ten commandments were written on the two tablets of stone.

Do I believe in organized religion? I believe God has a slot for everybody that trusts in him. My slot is freedom in Christ. I chose to connect with other likeminded individuals at a Christian church. Scott's slot is LDS. Al (I don't know if Al's slot is Baptist or Methodist or something else) but Al's in a different slot. I believe organized religion offers a slot for everyone who trusts him.

Those are my thoughts.
 
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