Certification Question, Access Panels

dodsonish said:
Ed your a rebel, we get it. You might want to cool it before you get kicked off PWI too.
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That may be exactly what TGP wants. Ed, you certainly dont agree with there ways and there are others. Poeple wont rally behind you if we all dont act professional.

Matt Bryan and company have changed there posting style and now represent themselves in a completely professional manner.

Dont treat these guys like they are the reckless posters of the past. They have learned how to finally conduct themselves.( bravo)
 
I was clarifying an accusation. Keerist. I have no ax cept with you guys that read one or two posts and make a judgement call. Its like you jump in the middle of an arguement and experss an opinion. Without reading all the AVAILABLE INFO. And I was hoping for someone here to read the goddamn post. Just to see how things went and how they got out of control.
 
Przrat said:
I was clarifying an accusation. Keerist. I have no ax cept with you guys that read one or two posts and make a judgement call. Its like you jump in the middle of an arguement and experss an opinion. Without reading all the AVAILABLE INFO. And I was hoping for someone here to read the goddamn post. Just to see how things went and how they got out of control.
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I expressed no opinions and passed no judgement.I asked you to clean up some postings.The language was been deemed offensive by Russ and that is grounds enough for me to make the request.
Let's go ahead and clarify something else while we are here.I have read all the posts in this thread and other KEC threads,as well as,being fairly well read up on KEC,but far from being willing enough to to every clean a system on my own.

I have seen the foam used in person and while it may not be the solution for every system it is a a great tool for those who use it.
 
Look ED makes some good points and those that have been cleaning for a year or so could heaven forbid learn a few things.

First off he mentioned the cert. for cutting access doors – no response. I posted several posts regarding TGP going out and checking systems so that they would be the arbiters of the new found religion of the FOAM Master. All of my post have been lost-so be it-they were of limited value, because they were not in line with the new style.

Start a new organization and so the other new guys will step in – you are just changing faces-you then become the target of a new guiding light. This is nothing new-the old guys don’t know anything-until the young get old. You people think you invented ethics, code, honor, pride, quality & the good feeling ownership. You can only change yourself, don’t worry about everyone else.
 
As far as I know you have to have a contractors license to cut access doors, at least in California.

"Start a new organization and so the other new guys will step in – you are just changing faces-you then become the target of a new guiding light. This is nothing new-the old guys don’t know anything-until the young get old. You people think you invented ethics, code, honor, pride, quality & the good feeling ownership. You can only change yourself, don’t worry about everyone else."

What we are trying to do is completely different then what has been done before, an ongoing education process for cleaners that want to better themselves. On top of that we will be an enforcement agency that ensures that IKECA and NFPA 96 standards are being met. Please tell me who is doing this now, if you really thing that "This is nothing new" as you state above.

Who is making sure that NFPA 96 is enforced? Who is making sure that certified companies uphold the standards of their organizations? Who is finding new and better ways to clean exhaust systems?

Let me give you an example: Daryl Mirza really started the foam revolution. We had no idea that he was foaming, until we sat down with him and he showed us some pictures of his sweet foamage. He gave us pointers on how to improve our foamology. Once we perfected it, we started showing other guys how to do it and it has helped them to do their jobs better and faster.

What is so wrong with helping other guys to do a better job?

Why should we not help to uphold the standards that Phil Ackland and IKECA have layed down?
 
David Saulque said:
You can only change yourself, don’t worry about everyone else.
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Just last week I put a bid in for a job that had been cleaned once, 4 years ago, by a hack outfit in KY. The fan and 60' of horizontal ductwork had not been touched in over 20 years. I went in at $980, the propasoal was reviewd, and they decided to allow the previous service company a chance to rebid as well. The same comapny that ripped them off four years ago cut my price in half, and got the job again. If they were cleaning the system to the same standard as I would there would be no issue. I can accept a better value for an equal service, but that is not what is happening. This company will clean the hood, and maybe the fan, but the ductwork will not get touched. I am sick and tired of dealing with companies like these. With help from other cleaners like myself we can change this.

Ignoring the problem of hacks in our industry helps no one, including yourself. By helping educate the people that make decisions in our industry, we are making our industry a better one. Which means a better more secure business future for legit KEC companies.
 
Why are yall so against foaming? I really dont care (and doubt anyone at TGP does) how you get the ENTIRE system to bare naked metal...............as long as it gets there. If you choose to use 409 and a tooth brush...........who cares, its the end result that matters. But please dont be so pretentious to tell me that MY method (correctly foaming with the best foamer,chems, foaming agents out there) is such an insignificant part of my cleaning process that its hardly worth mentioning.
 
OK guys I don't have anything against foaming - just show me a hard job and film it-not easy grease-go to the you tube post and I posted the same a few days back. We can't go to your bb but you can come here and post-now that's fair-kinda like the US & Mexico.
 
I used 409 one time .. I siphoned it thru my machine and believe it or not when you siphon 409 HOT.. It works pretty good... I have also used Commercial Dishwasher powder... Ok I forget to fill the caustic jug up every once and a while.. but hey I always clean it to bare metal,, and I always have plastic , haven't forgot that yet.. And you know me I will probably try the foam. Hey it doesn't matter to me the best way to get the best result in the least amount of time to save my customers money that's the way I'll do it..
 
dodsonish

dodsonish said:
Ignoring the problem of hacks in our industry helps no one, including yourself. By helping educate the people that make decisions in our industry, we are making our industry a better one. Which means a better more secure business future for legit KEC companies.
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Sounds like a catch 22 to me.

To start off I will say that I am not a KEC, but like Scott looked into it and decided to refrain.

I agree with you as to the access panals to ventilation. I have 13 years of cleaning large air duct systems and know how it is done, and access is required to clean these ducts. The rules say that accesses will be available to ensure access to all ducts or access will be made by removal of sections to ensure proper cleaning. PO numbers will be immediatly given to impliment new accesses as needed.

The kitchen systems in this area are mostly partially completed for the reason of insuficiant access. I know on a lot of them I could do better jobs than are being done but that is another story. Some of this I am about to print is hearsay and if it untrue I apoligize. When I asked the resteraunt people and the KEC why more access was not made they gave various reasons but the lawful one was "As long as I list the sections I clean and state the rest is NOT ACCESSABLE (and is a true statement) I don't have to worry about it. I have cleaned the system to the best of my ability and can not access the rest."

If this is all that is required to do to call a complete clean and anything further is on the shoulders of the cleaner then something is wrong. If you are, and it sounds like you are, trying to plug this hole than :D .

Again this is only toward access not cleaning itself. But my opinion on that is- that if an owner does not hold the KEC company accountable for a proper clean and inspections show no discrepencies than someone other than the KEC is not doing their job.
 
Josh , Hey man I get outbid all the time by HACKS....... I love it when someone undercuts my bid by half or more... But I make what is called a repay visit to the lost customer after the hood has been recleaned by the HACK Company .. I usually go in like this... " I may be able to reconsider my bid for the next service ,, but in order to do that I will need to take a look at the hood and system again... They will usually say ok .. Simply go in and remove a filter ,""" After it has been cleaned by the HACK """ then pull down some grease ,, then say.. " I cant clean for the price this company is cleaning it for , but as you can see they are not cleaning it , and then give him your price again... Works for me everytime.... Keep repeating over and over and over in your head """ I AM A GREAT SALESPERSON"" ....
 
JohnB said:
Josh , Hey man I get outbid all the time by HACKS....... I love it when someone undercuts my bid by half or more... But I make what is called a repay visit to the lost customer after the hood has been recleaned by the HACK Company .. I usually go in like this... " I may be able to reconsider my bid for the next service ,, but in order to do that I will need to take a look at the hood and system again... They will usually say ok .. Simply go in and remove a filter ,""" After it has been cleaned by the HACK """ then pull down some grease ,, then say.. " I cant clean for the price this company is cleaning it for , but as you can see they are not cleaning it , and then give him your price again... Works for me everytime.... Keep repeating over and over and over in your head """ I AM A GREAT SALESPERSON"" ....
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The problem is they get away with it. Usually payment is made in cash, or a check has already been processed by the time the customer realizes they have been ripped off.
 
The account must be empowered to check the work. I stress that with my accounts-the job will be redone if there is a problem. This is the key. This goes for any service industry-we take pictures and leave the filters out if need be and leave a condition report.

I will be at the IKECA show at Derby. See Ya
 
I went to a store today on a sales call .. Small hood quote $300.00 .. I was asked by the owner if I could inspect the fire system.. I went and looked at the system... Suprise.. the system was down, and looked as it had been down for sometime..(Aqua Blue System pre 1994 ) Non UL 300 Compliant.. I told the manager that in order to make the sysem compliant I would have to install a new PCL 300 ( in this case) The manager says that the fire inspector says as long as you can get someone to tag it you should be ok.. OMG wtf... Someone did have a tag on it I cant say who... they inspected it 5 months ago and no it was not me.. Anyhow the manager says That system has never been set off and it is a perfectly good system and I am not paying to have it fixed I will just find someone to tag it again like the fire inspector said.. I once again told her it is down and will not work.. She said the building is old and if it catches on fire so be it... I said you do realize that by not having an up to date and compliant fire system if the fire starts in the kitchen your insurance company will not cover a fire... Then she said what if I dont have Fire insurance... I dont know what the deal is here.. As I was leaving I could not help but think why a fire Inspector ( she gave me the name ) would have ever said that as long as you get it inspected it will be OK...The guage is on 0 ( Recharge ) and the system is non UL300.. I still cant believe a company that I am Familiar with inspected this system... You live and learn... Once again OMG
 
I saw a system last month that was out of service and it was so clean it looked like it was clean last night. The AHJ wanted it clean because they the customer was new. They didn't even pull the filters-just clean it-but its clean as new- we don't care clean it. 48 foot island.
 
Why are yall so against foaming? I really dont care (and doubt anyone at TGP does) how you get the ENTIRE system to bare naked metal...............as long as it gets there. If you choose to use 409 and a tooth brush...........who cares, its the end result that matters.
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Roger, I'm clearly not agaist Foaming. I have been foaming more and more. I love foam.

I started using foam for more and more things.

Foam foam foam foam faom faom foam.

I have been using it for year in graffiti removal and just never realized it was foaming.
 
4dc said:
This is my 1st post on this board in over a yr. I do not have enenys here & always got along wth most. I helped form TGP & FOUND MOST FROM THIS SITE which I used to enjoy being on.There has been so much bashing & unprofessional name calling that I just lost interest in the bs over here. I do not want one of my accts coming on here or TGP & see the unprofessional BS & think I'm part of it. When people come over here & start calling us a bunch of pussies I take offense. If you promote this as a free board & the 1st amendment thats cool & I will respect that. But when people who call thereselves professonal come back over here because they had problems & start bashing I question this persons intent.Maybe they are looking for pity, myself I'm looking for the betterment of my trade & to share my knowledge with the next generation that are hungry for the trade. Not the lurkers looking for a free ride. Look at the activity this board has lost just because all the bashing & bad mouthing. Who gained a damn thing from that. Did it or has it made a single member here any money or new accounts or a better way to do things? Change is tough to a lot of people & to become complacent is easy. The bottom line is the hatchet should be buried & lets quit with the petty bs & childish schit & act like true professionals. If someone from this board or TGP have a problem with each other those individuals should deal with it & let the spin doctors get a life.
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Doug Come to the Event in Charleston, hope to see ya There
 
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