Certification Question, Access Panels

P

Przrat

New member
Lets just say I went thru a certification school. OK? Now I am certified to clean grease exhaust systems, right? Seems to me that the exhaust cleaners here at this site do work that the school does not certify them for. Cutting access doors. Small thing right. But we as cleaners are not certified for sheet metal work. We like to point out all the greasy duct we find but..........there needs to be access doors. If everything is 'NFPA" we need to be certified to clean but not to install acccess panels? There are definitely some liability issues here. Plus safety issues, some skill, knowledge, and additional tools.
My thinking is........... my men can clean everything that is accessible. Cutting into duct , sheet metal work is not our responsibility. Should have been done when the system was fabricated. Does our liability insurance company know we could be doing this? Think it might add to our rates. You betcha. Heavy gauge duct requires a torch to cut. Nibblers are outclassed by some duct. Think the grease inside the duct might go up in flames when you are cutting with a torch? Ask a sheet metal guy to cut doors. Imagine what he would charge to cut and install doors if he hasn't already run like a jackrabbit.
We are cleaners, certified cleaners. Sheet metal work should be done by people in that trade. Not my men. I make it clear.
No work outside our area of expertise.
 
I have done shet metal for along time, Welding , Plasma Cutting , etc.. But Hey I always get a signed document saying we are not liable for fire do to grease laden vapors.... When I cut an access hole for a UL panel I use a big hole saw and electric metal sheers if there is alot of grease .. If it is fairly new construction I have one guy on the roof looking down the duct with a fire extinguisher close by and one guy inside with a fire extinguisher looking up the duct as well and I use the plasma cutter... But if you dont know what you are doing I would not cut into a duct.. Also we only INSTALL UL PANELS FORM HEISER OR BROOKS>>
 
My statement was, are we qualified? Are we certified. Should we be? Should we, as cleaners be cutting doors into duct? How much liability are we exposing ourselves to? Should we be doing this kind of work. What about when you are big enough to have employees doing the work, do you want them to be doing this without you there? How many people have done stuff that they "Know what they are doing" until it blows up in their faces? Leaving the owner of the company holding the bag.
 
If I did not think I could do something ,, I wouldn't do it.. I have employees but none that can weld worth a crap.. I would say you are right .. If you are not qualified to do sheet metal work .. Call a sheet metal guy.. Hecjk even though I am pretty good with metal and a wire welder believe it or not I still have a sheet metal shop make my roof and wall curbs.. as well as the duct work.. I usually just hang the hoods .. and weld it all into place... Of course you realize I am in Mississippi ( No welder certification ) I do have a general contractors license for permits and such as well as certification from pyro-chem..
 
It seems that we overlook this work we do. We give the impression, especially to newer people that installing access panels is next to nothing. There is defititely some information that needs to be shared. The nasty systems that are made examples of many times got that way because the duct was not accessible. We just say "install access panels". What do the certification schools teach, or do they just say the same thing. If this is an informative site we should go over in depth everything that is involved in bringing a system up to code. Explain the skill, the tools, the specs, the expense, and the dangers. Working within a door is another thing. Those damn holes are often sharp. They are also small and if you stick your head and shoulder in, it is considered confined space by OSHA. We don't talk much about that either.
Just something to talk about.
 
Przrat said:
It seems that we overlook this work we do. We give the impression, especially to newer people that installing access panels is next to nothing. There is defititely some information that needs to be shared. The nasty systems that are made examples of many times got that way because the duct was not accessible. We just say "install access panels". What do the certification schools teach, or do they just say the same thing. If this is an informative site we should go over in depth everything that is involved in bringing a system up to code. Explain the skill, the tools, the specs, the expense, and the dangers. Working within a door is another thing. Those damn holes are often sharp. They are also small and if you stick your head and shoulder in, it is considered confined space by OSHA. We don't talk much about that either.
Just something to talk about.
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There is tons of information on this stuff at TGP.:cool:
 
We clean a Japanese Restaurant that has 8 vent hoods ... each 2 hoods has one duct that is split off between the 2.. now I have gone in and installed access panels between each set of 2 hoods and now I can clean them easier.. The main thing to remeber when your are cutting out the holes for your UL panels is to go very slow , have plenty of extinguishers on hand and cut it the right size.. grease will burn and smoke while you are cutting out the hole so keep a spray bottle on hand... Dont fear grease and char will not explode in the duct work like unleaded gas or something.. .. I have installed over 40 access panels in my 17 years of cleaning and fire protection and no fires yet.. (((( Take your time and do it right)))) If you think cutting a hole in a duct is hard ,, We cut out a whole duct and curb at a BK one time and then rewelded new ducting .. Cutting with a plasma cutter.. We had smoke and fire and all kind os stuff but thats where the fire extinguishers and water come in... It was a little hard to weld because of the moisture left from my guys spraying the damn water hose everytime I would start cutting...
 
dodsonish said:
There is tons of information on this stuff at TGP.:cool:
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So you spent 5 years at the institute learning this stuff and now your not willing to share it here.

Most TGP guys met and networked here first.

The guys that remain here are the vetrans. I would have hoped that TGP guys would not have forgotten where they came from.

I wont let ya,

Thanks Josh for your past help. I can see you demand the members at tgp to help you but no help outside TGP.

I'm getting a clear picture..
 
Id be willing to bet theres more experienced KEC techs on TGP than here. Hell, what Ive learned there in the past year I would even put my limited experience up against some "veteran" members here. And TGP DEMANDS NOTHING FROM ANYONE. Membership and participation is voluntary.
 
Roger, its only a few months old. I'm certain they are the same members Roger.

So what your saying is that you spent a little over a year here & shared nothing. OK

I said i get the picture, your intent is not to share anything with anyone here.

Thats ok because if we direct people to the best place and that TGP, then PWI has done its job.

Could it really be that because of PWI you found TGP?

I glad that PWI has help you so much.
 
Dont get me wrong, we will send guys to TGp to learn and assorb information.

As you guys say lets get rid of the hackers out there doing poor work.

I may disagree with some pricipals and ideas but the main one objective i will not.

Lets not forget TGP started here and thats a straight fact. Some may not like that but its true.
 
Gawd, talking to RMEDDLERBERRYs like talking to a teen ager who already knows everything there is to know. He need a really big hat.
 
This is my 1st post on this board in over a yr. I do not have enenys here & always got along wth most. I helped form TGP & FOUND MOST FROM THIS SITE which I used to enjoy being on.There has been so much bashing & unprofessional name calling that I just lost interest in the bs over here. I do not want one of my accts coming on here or TGP & see the unprofessional BS & think I'm part of it. When people come over here & start calling us a bunch of pussies I take offense. If you promote this as a free board & the 1st amendment thats cool & I will respect that. But when people who call thereselves professonal come back over here because they had problems & start bashing I question this persons intent.Maybe they are looking for pity, myself I'm looking for the betterment of my trade & to share my knowledge with the next generation that are hungry for the trade. Not the lurkers looking for a free ride. Look at the activity this board has lost just because all the bashing & bad mouthing. Who gained a damn thing from that. Did it or has it made a single member here any money or new accounts or a better way to do things? Change is tough to a lot of people & to become complacent is easy. The bottom line is the hatchet should be buried & lets quit with the petty bs & childish schit & act like true professionals. If someone from this board or TGP have a problem with each other those individuals should deal with it & let the spin doctors get a life.
 
Hey Ed, why dont you come on down south a few states well have a party for ya. We could show ya how to install an access panel without blowing yourself up. Of course with access panels there will be no more excuses for not cleaning the whole system to bare naked metal. Ive got no beef with you Ed, youve been doing this for many years and you are set in your ways. Change can be painfull and unwanted but inevitable. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
 
4dc or who ever you are.

We ar enot bashing anyone, because a few individuals disagree with TGP does not mean we cant be freinds.

PWI doesnt advocate bashing of anyone. Matt Bryan was one of the founding members of PWI.

TGP and PWI are freinds from what we know, all mends have been restored on this end.

Also 4dc, stay at tgp if you like it. The truth is what the customer will see.

I dont have to agree with your beliefs about TGP. No one does, this is america and the last time i checked we were free to believe and speak how we want.

You misunderstand, Eds got a beef and we have asked Ed to leave the toilet at home.

There are real issues with the TGP site and the proposal of being enforncement for the industry.

Some believe that all in all the idea is good it could create a liabilty for those involved.

If you would like to debate and not hate i would be happy to start with the next post you need your ID.

PLEASE FILL IN YOUR SIgnature, Russ, Grant, Mike and Myself and all others experts on this site do not want anyone unknown comedians.
 
RMedbery said:
Hey Ed, why dont you come on down south a few states well have a party for ya. We could show ya how to install an access panel without blowing yourself up. Of course with access panels there will be no more excuses for not cleaning the whole system to bare naked metal. Ive got no beef with you Ed, youve been doing this for many years and you are set in your ways. Change can be painfull and unwanted but inevitable. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
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Both you guys need to follow your mentor 4dc.

Truthfully we could have a great discussion but it seem representive from TGP wants to act unprofessional and Ed keeps firing back.

Mr. Redbery, your customers are watching. I have freinds from the national rest assoc. that tune in regular. Mr. Berrie is the regional purchasing agent for a large chain in your area. actually he is VP of essential service witch hires and gives large contracts for this chain.

So you cna keep dancing with Ed or debate some of the problems folks have with the ideals of TGP.
 
I do not want one of my accts coming on here or TGP & see the unprofessional BS & think I'm part of it. When people come over here & start calling us a bunch of pussies I take offense.
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I apoligize for Ed behavior and look forward to debating and proving to the customers TGP is a great start up org.
 
Ron Musgraves said:
Mr. Redbery, your customers are watching. I have freinds from the national rest assoc. that tune in regular. Mr. Berrie is the regional purchasing agent for a large chain in your area. actually he is VP of essential service witch hires and gives large contracts for this chain.QUOTE]

Ron your threats mean ABSOLUTLY NOTHING to me. Call away, say what you want, I have no worries. Youve made threats to others that Im sure are as hollow as the one you just leveled against me. Now, if you would care to face me as a man and make some threats I will gladly provide you with a plane ticket to do so.

Im done
Good day
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