Certification Protocol Kitchen Exhaust Cleaners

First off I was certified under PWNA before you started your school, and I thank you-let's don't compare backgrounds you might come up short.

I took the IKECA test because they have a credible program and a program that merits the on going training so that your cert. maintains it eligibility. Unlike yours that is for "LIFE".

David
 
David
With all due respect, you seem to have lost your objectivity here. Agree or disagree it doesn't matter, all rusty has tried to do here is defend his right to offer a certification program, I don't think he has personally attacked you in any way. We as a group jumped all over him for his first hood cleaning school post. A post that is still active today, but he has hung in there when most people would have run the other way. You have to give him some credit for that.

Rusty
You seem to be asking for or are trying to prove your credibility here, but you don't participate in any discussions that don't in some way involve your interests. (i.e. certification and your hood cleaning school) If you think about it that practice does not help your cause at all.

My two cents for what it's worth.
 
Dear David,

I know that you were certified with PWNA first and now you have chosen IKECA, and one day you might choose CHDCA :) (I had to throw that in, sorry David just kidding with you)

I think that you are confusing some details.

First our members have a lifetime membership, that's not to say that their certification lasts a lifetime. Their certification is active one year at a time, and each year they prove that they are still actively cleaning exhaust systems, and then their certification is good for another year. Once they stop cleaning hoods and ducts, then their certification goes into an inactive status. If they then in some distant future decide to reactivate their certification, then we have a procedure to handle this (bring them up to speed on all of the latest changes.) This way we only people who actually are cleaning kitchen exhaust systems are certified by CHDCA. But all of our members (active & inactive) are participatory in our group.

David, we are just trying to improve kitchen exhaust cleaning nationwide. We aren't saying that we are better or have more years of experience. What we are saying is that we have just as much right as IKECA to certify our members as IKECA had to certify you.

We provide updates via online bulletin board, quarterly newsletters, annual meetings and email updates when immediate dissemination of information is required. We are there for our members who are actively building thriving kitchen exhaust cleaning companies; cleaning hoods just like you and the others are always preaching should be cleaned. We are running honest to god, insured, licensed, proper equipment, proper technique, all accessible areas to bare metal kind of companies. Just like you say that you do and you wish everyone else did as well. We do this with such enthusiasm that it puts perpetual grins on our faces.

So excuse my audacity at thinking that we (CHDCA) can certify our members. We trained them, we support them, it's only logical that we certify them to be the best that they can be.

When I go to Toyota to buy a Certified Used Car, I don't expect to see a Mazada or a Chevrolet Certified Used Car sticker on the window. I expect to see a Toyota Certified sticker. Because they made the car and have verified it's parts.

Now why would I certify our members IKECA or PWNA members when we were the ones that trained them, monitored them, tutored them, and helped them along the way to build a successful business? I expect to see a CHDCA sticker on their business as a symbol of pride. To indicate what they have accomplished. So whether you think that CHDCA is worthless or not, we are still going to build a nationwide network of INDEPENDENT certified hood & duct cleaners. And there are those out there everyday that are seeing the light that they can be certified and run the type of business that we all want to run.

What bothers you so much that you can't admit that we have just as much right as IKECA, PWNA or Phil to certify our members?
 
cert

I believe the reason many people on this board are upset about ‘certification’ seem to stems from credibility and substantiation. Yes we can use the argument, who is Phil Ackland and who gives him the right to teach; The same argument has been applied to PWNA and IKECA on who are they to certify?

The one factor to all three of the entities mentioned above that gives credibility is collaboration and consensus. Credibility is gained through many avenues. Acknowledgement through the AHJ’s, NFPA 96, and non-for-profit trade associations. Consensus is through board and membership approval based on experience with AHJ’s, industry experts, and NFPA 96.
 
What certification does, is that it set a bar and those who take there chosen line of work with a serious competence level,choose to have a document that shows basic competency. This all ties into ongoing training and updates.

Until the States take on the task everything is up for grabs.

If I have lost objectivity with regards to Rusty, I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

I find it odd that not one student has come to any bb with words of favor regarding his program. He need his students to sell the program and jump into the hot tub, join the party. With Rusty selling the program with every post he looks like crew leader in "Tin Men".

David
 
The question has been asked several times. What gives anyone the right to certify someone else? I have thought about this for a while, and my answer for now is, nothing gives anyone that right, however nothing says they can't do it either. As we all know those certifications don't mean much for most of us at this time. In my mind that fact that Phil has stepped up, and is trying to make it work puts him out front for all of us.
Who would you rather have doing it?
A government official who does not have a clue, or some one who has made a living at this and seen all of the inherent problems that we face each day.
My feeling is that eventually for this thing to work there will have to be one standardized test, administered by whom? I don’t know, or should that be WHO, oh I don’t know that either.
Another question was asked about a on site test to prove you can actually do the work, not that I think that could be worked out either, but for the sake of argument. Who would pick the restaurant?
 
I am posting my new Exhaust Cleaners Certification Protocol. See link at bottom.

This is a “BIG” document and requires study and thought to digest. But I think it is important for all of our futures, so take the time to read it and get back to me.

A few points to remember when reading it.
1) I intend to offer this to all levels of government that deal with Fire Safety. (Such as the State of Texas (or wherever) Fire Code requirements)

2) It is called "Phil Ackland" only at the moment to identify it during its evolution and transition from a draft to a more formal (refined) document. It is also copyrighted. Both of these are an effort to protect the integrity of the whole during the development phase.

3) What do I get out of this? -- I sell education. I hope that this protocol will encourage people to see the value of being consistency “trained and qualified”

4) The definitions of “trained and qualified” are debatable and that is one of the reasons I am posting this -- I am asking for your feedback.

5) I am not trying to hurt associations. I am trying to enhance this field for everyone. I have asked both major associations to participate in this refinement process. This Protocol will be available to ALL CLEANERS regardless of any affiliation.

6) As stated above (2) this Protocol is in an evolutionary phase. For the time being I will offer Certification (to these standards) but as time goes by and other groups (possibly associations) join in this process they too may be offering this program.

7) I am developing “distance education or on-line training” for experienced personnel to keep the costs down. But I hope there will also be training available through ISO licensed instructors (see the Protocol). This training will be available in a number of locations. I understand that for this protocol to succeed we have to be able to provide it at a reasonable cost. That is a primary consideration.

8) This Protocol is not a finished document, I am looking for help and opinions from ALL interested parties. So please provide your feedback.

9) and finally, I think all knowledgeable cleaners know that if the government creates a program of what is required to be an exhaust cleaner, they will take little interest in what cleaners really want or need. So it is my hope that by being pro-active and united we might, just might, have a chance to get something to government that will reflect some of the criteria that we (collectively) think defines a “Trained and Qualified” tradesman.


http://www.philackland.com/Certification.html

How you been Phil
 
Hi Ron I am fine and thanx for asking.

I have however been saddened lately by the workmanship I am seeing from some of the fires we have been investigating.

So called "Certified" Cleaners and "Association members" are demonstrating that they are not following the "Standards of Care" that they agreed to within the particular group they ascribe to belong.

I told someone recently that a person could learn the exhaust cleaning trade in reasonably short order but training and testing doesn't give them a conscience to do the job properly.
 
Hi Ron I am fine and thanx for asking.

I have however been saddened lately by the workmanship I am seeing from some of the fires we have been investigating.

So called "Certified" Cleaners and "Association members" are demonstrating that they are not following the "Standards of Care" that they agreed to within the particular group they ascribe to belong.

I told someone recently that a person could learn the exhaust cleaning trade in reasonably short order but training and testing doesn't give them a conscience to do the job properly.

Tell us about the work you have been doing recently, we all want to Know.

Please start another thread my friend and explain the issues if your allowed?
 
What certification does, is that it set a bar and those who take there chosen line of work with a serious competence level,choose to have a document that shows basic competency. This all ties into ongoing training and updates.

Until the States take on the task everything is up for grabs.

If I have lost objectivity with regards to Rusty, I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

I find it odd that not one student has come to any bb with words of favor regarding his program. He need his students to sell the program and jump into the hot tub, join the party. With Rusty selling the program with every post he looks like crew leader in "Tin Men".

David

Tin men is right...forget about it.
 
Hello Doc
I believe the reason many people on this board are upset about ‘certification’ seem to stems from credibility and substantiation. Yes we can use the argument, who is Phil Ackland and who gives him the right to teach; The same argument has been applied to PWNA and IKECA on who are they to certify?

The one factor to all three of the entities mentioned above that gives credibility is collaboration and consensus. Credibility is gained through many avenues. Acknowledgement through the AHJ’s, NFPA 96, and non-for-profit trade associations. Consensus is through board and membership approval based on experience with AHJ’s, industry experts, and NFPA 96.
 
I am posting my new Exhaust Cleaners Certification Protocol. See link at bottom.

This is a “BIG” document and requires study and thought to digest. But I think it is important for all of our futures, so take the time to read it and get back to me.

A few points to remember when reading it.
1) I intend to offer this to all levels of government that deal with Fire Safety. (Such as the State of Texas (or wherever) Fire Code requirements)

2) It is called "Phil Ackland" only at the moment to identify it during its evolution and transition from a draft to a more formal (refined) document. It is also copyrighted. Both of these are an effort to protect the integrity of the whole during the development phase.

3) What do I get out of this? -- I sell education. I hope that this protocol will encourage people to see the value of being consistency “trained and qualified”

4) The definitions of “trained and qualified” are debatable and that is one of the reasons I am posting this -- I am asking for your feedback.

5) I am not trying to hurt associations. I am trying to enhance this field for everyone. I have asked both major associations to participate in this refinement process. This Protocol will be available to ALL CLEANERS regardless of any affiliation.

6) As stated above (2) this Protocol is in an evolutionary phase. For the time being I will offer Certification (to these standards) but as time goes by and other groups (possibly associations) join in this process they too may be offering this program.

7) I am developing “distance education or on-line training” for experienced personnel to keep the costs down. But I hope there will also be training available through ISO licensed instructors (see the Protocol). This training will be available in a number of locations. I understand that for this protocol to succeed we have to be able to provide it at a reasonable cost. That is a primary consideration.

8) This Protocol is not a finished document, I am looking for help and opinions from ALL interested parties. So please provide your feedback.

9) and finally, I think all knowledgeable cleaners know that if the government creates a program of what is required to be an exhaust cleaner, they will take little interest in what cleaners really want or need. So it is my hope that by being pro-active and united we might, just might, have a chance to get something to government that will reflect some of the criteria that we (collectively) think defines a “Trained and Qualified” tradesman.


http://www.philackland.com/Certification.html


Phil the Industry has a New Sheriff in Town United association of mobile contract Cleaners
 
Get certified Today www.uamcc.org
I am posting my new Exhaust Cleaners Certification Protocol. See link at bottom.

This is a “BIG” document and requires study and thought to digest. But I think it is important for all of our futures, so take the time to read it and get back to me.

A few points to remember when reading it.
1) I intend to offer this to all levels of government that deal with Fire Safety. (Such as the State of Texas (or wherever) Fire Code requirements)

2) It is called "Phil Ackland" only at the moment to identify it during its evolution and transition from a draft to a more formal (refined) document. It is also copyrighted. Both of these are an effort to protect the integrity of the whole during the development phase.

3) What do I get out of this? -- I sell education. I hope that this protocol will encourage people to see the value of being consistency “trained and qualified”

4) The definitions of “trained and qualified” are debatable and that is one of the reasons I am posting this -- I am asking for your feedback.

5) I am not trying to hurt associations. I am trying to enhance this field for everyone. I have asked both major associations to participate in this refinement process. This Protocol will be available to ALL CLEANERS regardless of any affiliation.

6) As stated above (2) this Protocol is in an evolutionary phase. For the time being I will offer Certification (to these standards) but as time goes by and other groups (possibly associations) join in this process they too may be offering this program.

7) I am developing “distance education or on-line training” for experienced personnel to keep the costs down. But I hope there will also be training available through ISO licensed instructors (see the Protocol). This training will be available in a number of locations. I understand that for this protocol to succeed we have to be able to provide it at a reasonable cost. That is a primary consideration.

8) This Protocol is not a finished document, I am looking for help and opinions from ALL interested parties. So please provide your feedback.

9) and finally, I think all knowledgeable cleaners know that if the government creates a program of what is required to be an exhaust cleaner, they will take little interest in what cleaners really want or need. So it is my hope that by being pro-active and united we might, just might, have a chance to get something to government that will reflect some of the criteria that we (collectively) think defines a “Trained and Qualified” tradesman.


http://www.philackland.com/Certification.html
 
Ok Phil,

First let me relate my experiences with organizations over the past decades. They offer hood cleaning training but are careful not to expose themselves to any potential liability. Understandable but restrictive. After working on hundreds of systems there always seems to be another one I haven't seen. New or Old. So hood cleaning training usually is a bust as far as I am concerned. Secondly there seems to be an inordinate amount of time spent or selling the participants stuff. Machines, chemicals, manuals, further training, all kinds of stuff. Makes me crazy. Then some organizations have meetings only big companies employees can afford to attend. They have meetings in Las Vegas and other resorts. A small business owner has difficulty carving out the time and money to afford plane fare, lodging, transportation and meals.
There are representatives there from many non practical companies that waste our time.
So, after paying a membership fee whats in it for us? More fees? Some suggestions are Safety in the vehicle and on the job. Not only ladder but health, noise, building security, truck security, How to handle emergencies. Awareness of the other agencies that come into play that can hurt us. EPA, OSHA for example. How to realistically deal with Fire Inspectors. Who is in charge, local, state? Within the local fire departments each fire inspector may have different interpretations of the codes. Are the NFPA codes treated as recommendations or laws? If you are penalized by the AHJ how to handle it. Can you appeal it?
Understanding of how a fire advances in the system. They do not start in the duct. Why don't the employees pull the manual activation on the fire suppression? Do they even know where it is and what it is for.
There can be many variables in type of pressure washers, types of trucks, what insurance to get for liability and vehicle. Group purchases might prove financially beneficial. Some type of group representation during the appeal process. When speaking as a viable group the code enforcers may pay attention. It is much easier for them to intimidate a lone business owner than a group.
Just to clarify I am from Massachusetts where the NFPA codes have been incorporated as laws. The Fire Inspectors are covering their butts by blaming us for their years of lack of enforcement. We must notify them for code violations and if we do not do a perfect job we can be fined and lose our hood cleaners license. Oh thats something, in this state we must qualify to take a test , then pass a test to become a certified hood cleaner. With that hanging over our heads it is difficult to figure our which fire inspector is by the book and which allows some gray areas. When we inform the fire inspector we lose the customer. So my attitude is based on these facts. A Hood Cleaners organization could be viable if it were practical and beneficial. Keeping in mind that, a least in this area, hood cleaning businesses are small and cannot afford to throw money away for frivolous trips that offer a lot of talk that doesn't really apply to day to day work.
 
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