Where are we heading ?

Clean County PW said:
Scott point well taken. What do you do when these guys zone in on one of your accounts?? Besides maybe educating your customer what do you do when they undercut the heck out of ya on a commercial account?? I lost my biggest account years ago when I was doing a bunch of Best Buy stores a month. Somebody comes in and undercuts me by 50% and my prices back then stayed the same for 5 yrs up to that point. Needless to say I lost the whole account and even today the stores I did still look like crap after the new guys took over.
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there's nothing you can do. from my experience both residential and commercial the underbidder usually gets the job. not to get off track , i was just under bid on a strip mall by a contractor whose main focus is construction. this business does tend to keep individuals on edge wondering if that same account will be there next year.
 
MIKE FP said:
new york is the same situation just a different state.
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Hey Mike, i lived in the Bronx half my life, than out in Long Island before comming here. I dont remember ever seeing P/W rigs like mine or some of the other guys and gals on this site?

Maybe i just was'nt looking for them because i was not in the BIZ at the time.I travel as far as New York and New Jersey to do accounts from down here, which tells me 1 either they dont have many people doing it up there or 2 the people who are doing it up there are not set up for large commercial accounts?


I hope that all the new companies out there that are thinking of starting up a P/W co in the near future investigate a little on pricing before taking the plunge into an industry that is already plagued with lowball incompetant companies that will further bring down the industry as a whole..
 
Great thread.

Several factors have lead to the downfall of this industry. IMO!

I would say the most prevalent issue, AS OF LATE, is the internet. Before you shake your head no read on...

First off, this WAS a handed down trade. Folks would learn by experimenting and making mistakes. Not saying the noobie isn't going to make mistakes, he basically gets a bike with training wheels on it now.

Now, anybody with a puter and a connection can get a step by step education on what to buy and how to use it. Some may say "well that’s autonomy in action" I disagree. When people read "we did 1200 yesterday" and then realize they can get into the biz for less than 5k...and gross 1200 in a day it is very appetizing. The whole time companies are launching internet marketing campaigns trying to "make a name" and hit every possible search engine with endless posts HANDING OUT THE TRADE in exchange for "ranking." So, now it’s no longer a passed on trade with "secrets". It is seen as FREE MONEY, just buy your eqpt and read the posts on how to and your set! Couldn’t be further from what it takes to run a successful business. Blame no org for that...our own stupidity.

This brings in folks that HAVE NO IDEA how to run a business. The hunger for success and reading how much money x made yesterday complimented with a free education on how to clean x, makes it appear as an easy catch. But, not a damn one of these new folks can price anything correctly with the intentions of doing biz in five years so far from what I have seen. I am one of these "new folks" btw (just under 5yrs old)....but I know how to price! Why you ask? Because I am educated and I came into this market with analysis and a well written plan. The trade was “passed down” to me and I learned to love it. I left a very good career but was unhappy.

This in turn, creates a market to sell eqpt to these "hungry" mislead business ignorant noobies. Now, you are the sheep and guess who has the crook? I think you all know how deep this rabbit hole goes....I'll save time here for the folks with a short attention span.

So now, we are at a point where we have endless noobies getting into the "mix" and being targeted to get them into the mix.
Back in the day all you needed was hot water and a tank and bam, you are in the top 10% of your industry and can sell your service on proper eqpt etc... Now, it is all about your ability to give yourself a chance at a sale. How much money can you pay per month to have a "chance" at a sale? Word of mouth still is the way to go, but with all of the brand new well epuipped entities if 1% is doing good work with that noobie price tag..who do you think is GOING TO HAVE the local WoM? You just GAVE IT AWAY you dummy. All how to forums should be for professional contractors IMO and should be an invited or an earned privilege. Hate to say it but that’s the current state we are in. Also,
I feel you can’t learn jack shiot about a persons character or morals on a forum. I made a few mistakes on a forum or two but it is about 1% of who I am. Looking at ones company and people they are acquainted with is how you learn about character. All of which you cannot see on a forum. You will see what the poster wants you to see. Remember the shepherds crook phrase I said earlier????

I really have to agree with the poster Big chaz. The only reason why I am still here washing for a living is because I STRIVE TO BE THE BEST and can SELL, NOT UNDERCUT! I am that way with anything I do. I'm sure we can all say that to some extent, but some more than others I feel.

Coming in second a cat’s whisker under the above....

With the influx of new co's coming and going with zero prereq's besides a couple of hoops to jump through with the state and obtaining insurance, the business practice ethics of the industry practitioners has suffered. This is a cutthroat say anything to get the job industry now. This is the largest obstacle I face today. I have even sought and obtained legal advice to combat some of the scandalous, unethical sociopaths that infect and degrade my market. You absolutely would not believe the crap that I must deal with on a daily basis now that I am advertising aggressively. Everything from I steal employees to I have worked for company x……
I would be here typing all night to explain the pathetic levels people have lowered to gain
A job over me. I can honestly say I conduct business in a professional manner and when I am confronted with a mislead potential customer I just shake my head, keep to myself, and wonder what the new lie of the week is…

Last but not least...

It’s the part timers. For self explanatory reasons. Joe blow is trying to get his boat etc... I am trying to pay my mortgage. This industry could become be a part timer industry for the whole I feel for the above mentioned reasons. You don't see plumbers etc feeling the need to use "instruction" in a mass marketing atmosphere to gain biz. Hence, the reason
why you don't have the problems we have in industries that parallel ours.

With that said...

I feel there is still some of the market left for professional ethically ran businesses. There are still customers out there that can recognize a con man, or a hack...leaving some of the market "untouchable" for those that are still whole.

-Thomas
 
Kory said:
Big Chaz our area is overwhelmed with contractors the greater Tampa area has about 290 PW co. not exadurating. Some good some bad. With this many contractors prices do go down. Im not crying just stating the facts supply & demand!
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Yes, FINALLY we are all owning up to the truth, and the reality.
Business is saturated here in Florida, with more coming all the time!
Case in point.
We just had a referral in Cheval from a pressure washing friend, a good guy.'
He, sight unseen, agreed to clean a tile roof for a lady who is a friend of his wife.'
He gave her a real deal because she is his wife's friend.
He tried to clean the roof, it was too steep.
He called us, and we had to bump the lady a bit since we use chemicals not pressure.
My roof man, who is on commission, flat out refused to clean a 2 story barrel tile roof for the agreed on price.
The lady informed me she SHOULD have just went with the company who cleaned her neighbors 3000 sq ft 2 story 10/12 for 350.00!

I THOUGHT she was lying, but she faxed me the invoice she got from her neighbor.
Now, this company is a well known roof cleaning company too!

I was shocked!

THAT is how bad it is here in Tampa right now.

We still managed to get 700.00 from her, but only because we were there already, and she needed it done.

That SHOULD have been a 1000.00 roof all day long,

Pressure cleaning here in Tampa has long been a whores market.
It WAS my hope in teaching roof cleaning methods that the smart would get into roof cleaning, maybe even make some kind of living.

Unfortunately, the whores and lowballers read these boards too.

Lacking any semblance of sales skills, they sell only on price.

As long as free and easy access to our trade secrets is availiable to them, this will continue to be a problem.

Wake up guys, we are putting ourselves right out of business.

IMHO, we MUST find a way to stop this.

Just like America can compete if all things are equal,, so can we.

But all things Are NOT equal.

We are up against those with pensions, with second incomes, illegal aliens, or even those on Public Assistance.

We are NOT on a level playing field.

Though this IS our main business, it is NOT for much of our competition.
Tampa Electric employees and Firemen are on 4 day work weeks.
They make from 40 to 60 grand a year, working 4 days a week.

This gives them 3 whole days to CUT OUR THROATS ?

Any questions ??
 
Peerless said:
Great thread.

Several factors have lead to the downfall of this industry. IMO!

I would say the most prevalent issue, AS OF LATE, is the internet. Before you shake your head no read on...

First off, this WAS a handed down trade. Folks would learn by experimenting and making mistakes. Not saying the noobie isn't going to make mistakes, he basically gets a bike with training wheels on it now.

Now, anybody with a puter and a connection can get a step by step education on what to buy and how to use it. Some may say "well that’s autonomy in action" I disagree. When people read "we did 1200 yesterday" and then realize they can get into the biz for less than 5k...and gross 1200 in a day it is very appetizing. The whole time companies are launching internet marketing campaigns trying to "make a name" and hit every possible search engine with endless posts HANDING OUT THE TRADE in exchange for "ranking." So, now it’s no longer a passed on trade with "secrets". It is seen as FREE MONEY, just buy your eqpt and read the posts on how to and your set! Couldn’t be further from what it takes to run a successful business. Blame no org for that...our own stupidity.

This brings in folks that HAVE NO IDEA how to run a business. The hunger for success and reading how much money x made yesterday complimented with a free education on how to clean x, makes it appear as an easy catch. But, not a damn one of these new folks can price anything correctly with the intentions of doing biz in five years so far from what I have seen. I am one of these "new folks" btw (just under 5yrs old)....but I know how to price! Why you ask? Because I am educated and I came into this market with analysis and a well written plan. The trade was “passed down” to me and I learned to love it. I left a very good career but was unhappy.

This in turn, creates a market to sell eqpt to these "hungry" mislead business ignorant noobies. Now, you are the sheep and guess who has the crook? I think you all know how deep this rabbit hole goes....I'll save time here for the folks with a short attention span.

So now, we are at a point where we have endless noobies getting into the "mix" and being targeted to get them into the mix.
Back in the day all you needed was hot water and a tank and bam, you are in the top 10% of your industry and can sell your service on proper eqpt etc... Now, it is all about your ability to give yourself a chance at a sale. How much money can you pay per month to have a "chance" at a sale? Word of mouth still is the way to go, but with all of the brand new well epuipped entities if 1% is doing good work with that noobie price tag..who do you think is GOING TO HAVE the local WoM? You just GAVE IT AWAY you dummy. All how to forums should be for professional contractors IMO and should be an invited or an earned privilege. Hate to say it but that’s the current state we are in. Also,
I feel you can’t learn jack shiot about a persons character or morals on a forum. I made a few mistakes on a forum or two but it is about 1% of who I am. Looking at ones company and people they are acquainted with is how you learn about character. All of which you cannot see on a forum. You will see what the poster wants you to see. Remember the shepherds crook phrase I said earlier????

I really have to agree with the poster Big chaz. The only reason why I am still here washing for a living is because I STRIVE TO BE THE BEST and can SELL, NOT UNDERCUT! I am that way with anything I do. I'm sure we can all say that to some extent, but some more than others I feel.

Coming in second a cat’s whisker under the above....

With the influx of new co's coming and going with zero prereq's besides a couple of hoops to jump through with the state and obtaining insurance, the business practice ethics of the industry practitioners has suffered. This is a cutthroat say anything to get the job industry now. This is the largest obstacle I face today. I have even sought and obtained legal advice to combat some of the scandalous, unethical sociopaths that infect and degrade my market. You absolutely would not believe the crap that I must deal with on a daily basis now that I am advertising aggressively. Everything from I steal employees to I have worked for company x……
I would be here typing all night to explain the pathetic levels people have lowered to gain
A job over me. I can honestly say I conduct business in a professional manner and when I am confronted with a mislead potential customer I just shake my head, keep to myself, and wonder what the new lie of the week is…

Last but not least...

It’s the part timers. For self explanatory reasons. Joe blow is trying to get his boat etc... I am trying to pay my mortgage. This industry could become be a part timer industry for the whole I feel for the above mentioned reasons. You don't see plumbers etc feeling the need to use "instruction" in a mass marketing atmosphere to gain biz. Hence, the reason
why you don't have the problems we have in industries that parallel ours.

With that said...

I feel there is still some of the market left for professional ethically ran businesses. There are still customers out there that can recognize a con man, or a hack...leaving some of the market "untouchable" for those that are still whole.

-Thomas
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I do like all the analogies. :D :D
 
I think we should start a union. Then find all these Lowballers and start breaking some wands !!
 
It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less.
Those of us established who have paid our dues and good at what we do will survive, the rest will die.

No one has talked about another problem, the near drought conditions here in Florida for the past two years!

We NEED rain to make mildew for the future.
THINK it is slow now, just wait till next summer .... LOL

Better hold on tight guys :eek:
 
"leave the guns & take the cannoli...."
 
great post, i dont feel bad because im part time, i have a four year enlistment left in the army and just cant quit. The MPs would find me and lock my butt up. i do take this industry seriously. i read about part timers using this for extra income buying boats ect,,. and they have no intentions of ever becoming full time. my wife saw all the extra money i made and thought i was gonna play big shot. i put every penny back into equipment. i plan to do this for the next four years untill my enlistment is up. i know its gonna be a long hard road. as far as image, when i told my friends and family that i was powerwashing houses, 9 out of 10 laughed at me. in there mind a power wash guy is i kid whos mother loaned him 300 bucks for a washer and he washes houses for beer and dope money. ill roll all my equipmet off a cliff before i ever become a cheap PT/ wash anything for 50buck whore.
 
oh by the way nick, i was born and rasied in brooklyn n.y. i remember when BFI tried to pick up gabarge in my neighbor hood everyone chased the guy out with baseball bats. and if you were a non union truck driver you better be stopping just to pick up a sandwich. only the public can help, by asking for proof of ins. and license and stop paying the dope head 50 bucks for a wash. cause when he runs out of money he sells his washer, then next he might come back and rob your house. and then again maybe us part timers need to shake down the ilegals kick in some out of our pocket, and send the money to Russ, RON, Chris, REEf. hotwaterwizard. and the rest of the guys that helped us.
 
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I suspect it different for all of us. We each probably have different situations. I, by the way, am new to the board and this is my first post. I'm glad to add my comments.
I began self-employed work pressurewashing over 3 years ago. One of the first houses I did was a 2500 sq ft house with pool and cement to clean. I did the job for 250.00. Lady was very pleased. She called me last week to come back. I looked at the house, gave her a price of $225.00 to do it this time. It wasn't nearly as bad this time. She complained because she thought it would be must less expensive because it wasn't as dirty. I said: "It still takes time to clean it."
This she said: "All I know is that 4 years ago I hired a high school kid to clean the house for $100.00.................."

Well, I shoke her hand, and left.................
She compared me to a 16 year old with a little pressure washer in the trunk of his Mom's car carrying a gallon of walmart bleach in his hand.

Belive me, that is not the image I project.

Many people look upon us as nothing more than hired labor. Not professionals
 
Sports.. et al.. People don't percieve this as any kind of real business for a hundred different reasons. One is that there are guys (the majority it seems)that charge $225 or less for a housewash. A 2500 square foot house goes for $200K-$750K depending on where you live. To side that house may be $8K. A new roof.. $15K. And we are giving away housewashes for $225? No thanks. You know what? I can pick up three guys from the local shelter, give them ladders, brushes and paint and have them paint my exterior. It might cost me $750 to have it done. Do I want to do that? No f'in way. Does that mean that the guy that quoted me $8500 is a rip off? His list of references sure do not think so.

We spray water and chemicals on a person's largest investment. We take a huge risk doing that. If people wanna play that Russian Roulette with some hack, let them. Instead I choose to target people that shop at Nordstroms and pay for QUALITY. I speak clearly and intelligently and show them I an equal, not a hack that cannot do anything else with my life. It all about selling yourself.. no revelation there. I choose to value myself higher and not let customers dictate the price of my service. Few and far between I still get cheapskates. They are not my customers nor will they ever be.

If you are seriously seeing the decline in job price of which some of you are speaking.. its time to move on. Take what you have earned and get into a different business.

Peer, I want to lastly address your concerns. I respect your thoughts and opinions but I think you are offbase. I can teach you how to paint a straight line, make vinyl shine or make a deck look new. That leaves about 800 other things you will still need to know to run a successful business. This business, internet existing or not, is what it is.. a low startup that attracts wannabe business owners. You have been around just long enough to know what it costs to stay operating. Let these clowns come and go with their lowball mentalities. They will be busy and broke and will dry up and blow away like other dogsh*t that shows up around town.
 
pressurepros said:
Sports.. et al.. People don't percieve this as any kind of real business for a hundred different reasons. One is that there are guys (the majority it seems)that charge $225 or less for a housewash. A 2500 square foot house goes for $200K-$750K depending on where you live. To side that house may be $8K. A new roof.. $15K. And we are giving away housewashes for $225? No thanks. You know what? I can pick up three guys from the local shelter, give them ladders, brushes and paint and have them paint my exterior. It might cost me $750 to have it done. Do I want to do that? No f'in way. Does that mean that the guy that quoted me $8500 is a rip off? His list of references sure do not think so.

We spray water and chemicals on a person's largest investment. We take a huge risk doing that. If people wanna play that Russian Roulette with some hack, let them. Instead I choose to target people that shop at Nordstroms and pay for QUALITY. I speak clearly and intelligently and show them I an equal, not a hack that cannot do anything else with my life. It all about selling yourself.. no revelation there. I choose to value myself higher and not let customers dictate the price of my service. Few and far between I still get cheapskates. They are not my customers nor will they ever be.

If you are seriously seeing the decline in job price of which some of you are speaking.. its time to move on. Take what you have earned and get into a different business.

Peer, I want to lastly address your concerns. I respect your thoughts and opinions but I think you are offbase. I can teach you how to paint a straight line, make vinyl shine or make a deck look new. That leaves about 800 other things you will still need to know to run a successful business. This business, internet existing or not, is what it is.. a low startup that attracts wannabe business owners. You have been around just long enough to know what it costs to stay operating. Let these clowns come and go with their lowball mentalities. They will be busy and broke and will dry up and blow away like other dogsh*t that shows up around town.
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Amen to that !!:D
 
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