Water wash systems

kmjt1021

kmjt1021

Member
Water wash systems

I don't know if this is going to be a question, or I have just reached wits end and need to blow of steam
I have a large airline caterer, with two 65 ft non working water wash hoods who told me it would cost him $10,000 to get it working properly. These systems can be a real pain especially when the wash system doesn't work. This system has clogged drains and I can get easily 40 gallons of liquid grease from the section over the flat grills bi-monthly. I have tried many way to resolve this, I even on my own time spent a night unclogging the drains, but without a nightly wash down they just clog up again. They don't want to spend any more money and are even thinking about moving the service to every 3 months. This system has about 75 ft of horizontal duct (3'dia round) that requires crawling through with wand in hand to clean, and I am reasonably sure that if the grease would not collect in the hood (clog drain) it would not get pulled into the ductwork like it does. Therefore hopefully cutting down on the clean time, as it is I can't lower my price, which I have been asked to do repeatedly, they haven't gone to another company so I must be doing something right I guess. This job takes two nights with two crews, and third night with one crew to complete so it is pricey. They keep telling me that the last company cleaned it for half what I charge, which I just ignore, from the shape of the system when I first got there they did half the work too. Anyway if there is any water wash guys out there does that $10,000 dollar amount sound remotely possible, they tell me that most of the system needs redone if that helps. I have bent over backwards for these people and every time I talk to them they act like I am getting one over on them, and it is kind of getting under my skin. WOW I feel better already.
I not whining am I?
 
Instead of $10,000 on replacing the water wash, they could spend less than half of that for conventional hoods with baffle filters (might need a new or at minimum a redesigned fire system). The benifits are for both, virtually no maintenance on the kitchen staff, easier cleaning for you.
You said bi-monthly service...airline catering kitchens prepare more meals than most 24-hour restaurants and monthly service is more in line with the norm.
 
First off I need to know what is the maker of the panel and the hood and then what city. I should be able to help with the problem.

David
916-663-3033
 
Bryan,

The first thing that you need to try to understand is the basic design principle of well engineered water wash systems, operating at the proper air velocity they will extract 95% of the grease within the ventilator. You are on the right track thinking that the operation of a daily wash cycle will help, with approved detergent it will flush the grease out of the ventilators and maintain the drain lines.

I have a passion for water wash and wrenching on them, you are close enough to me that I would be happy to help you if you wish. $10,000 sounds high to me.

If you can get a little preliminary information I can help. Try to gather the following and call me;
> Manufacturer, > Number of control panels, > Serial number(s) in the control cabinets, > Wash pipe diameter in the control cabinets, > Pump type and number of pumps, > Number of solenoid valves (electrically controlled valve on pipe(s) that are sometimes green with a red cap), > Linear footage of ventilator (2 @ 65' each ?).
If you have a digital camera and could take some images to e-mail we could really get somewhere with this quickly.

Try to keep your client calm, these systems are often poorly supported and lead to a high level of frustration. We have restored systems as cheaply as the cost of detergent pump parts (about $130.00) + detergent with a good cleaning to several thousands of dollars. The metal maintains it's integrity and the pipes will carry water, it's just a matter of making the components work together as they were engineered to do.

You can reach me at 313-278-5558
 
Incidentally Bryan, NFPA96 standards specify "Listed exhaust hoods shall be operated in accordance with the terms of their listings and the manufacturer's instructions." The key is in the delivery of such a statement...give them a headache, then offer the aspirin.
 
Hello Bryan,

Several years ago one of the detergent suppliers offered repairing of any water wash system, if he could have the customers detergent account for all cleaners used in the kitchen.

The implacation being that to get one operational would not cost anything near $10,000!

Dave Olson
 
Hi Bryan,

I reread your post. With regard to the 75' of horizontal duct. If you have access from both ends why don't you run a spinner through it?

We have systems with several hundred feet of horizontal and the spinner works great!

If I linked it correctly you should see a picture of our spinner. We use a plumber’s tape to pull it through and we can apply our degreaser and rinse with it as well.

Dave Olson
 

Attachments

  • tps-ductspin.jpg
    tps-ductspin.jpg
    16.7 KB · Views: 156
Wow 6 responses in a few hrs, that must be a record.
Ok now that I have some separation from it, A few things I need remember, the airlines themselves are struggling, so it stands to reason that any industry that caters to them may be struggling as well, I think that is where all the questioning may be coming from. It was better for me to vent here than at the guy on the other end of the phone, now to address some question.
David Olson, I have a spinner, albeit not a home made one, however as is the case with most of the airport work. I can't get in the same county with my equipment, and everything has to be carted inside and run with no real way to vent it. So I am using small electric machines with a hot water seal kits, and they don't have the power to be effective with a spinner only about 1500psi. I actually have to park about a 1000 feet from the hood give or take a few feet. Maybe not the ideal way but their are people putting together trays of food only about 20" from where we are working.
I figured someone would ask for the maker, and I don't have that now, I will be back in there in a few weeks and will get any info available along with some pictures, we can get deeper into this then.
Grant that was my first thought and I'm not a big fan of cleaning water wash systems anyway.
 
Bryan,

It is true the airlines are struggling. If your client was under Chapter 11 reorganization it would guarantee payments.

I happen to be a distributor for a the SC-5 division of 20/10 Products that makes approved detergent under several labels (Avtec, Gaylord, & SC-5). There should not be any misconceptions about the detergent warranty programs, simply stated the detergent pump parts are warranted against any damage using approved detergent and parts will be replaced free of charge if the damage is caused by use of any of the approved products. 20/10 Products does not manufacture any other commercial cleaning products for institutional use.

There are manufacturer's that offer chemicals that they recommend for use in water wash systems that also have cleaning chemical programs for institutions. The products that I have seen have acidic or caustic components that are damaging to water wash systems.
 
As a very rough estimate, we figure $200.00 a foot for a new hood. At that rate, 2 new hoods will cost $26,000. This does not include removal of the old hood.

Gaylord is the largest manufacture of the water wash hoods. There support is limited to their dealers only. There are some simple things to check. Does the system turn on when the switch is operated, is the breaker turned on? Does the pump operate, do the nozzles squirt water, does the chemical tank have chemical in it. Most of the problems I have seen are simple to repair. Parts are very expensive, I just got some nozzles in that cost me $18.00 each. The last pump I repaired cost $220.00 for a pump head. But I am not an authorized dealer, and so parts do cost me more.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
Hello Bryan,

We also have systems that we are unable to use our truck mounted equipment. We use stronger degreaser. We apply it using the 1500 psi pump to force it thru the hose and the spinner. We use the kitchens hot water. The small electrics that we use have Cat pumps that are rated for high temperatures!

Here is a pic of our diaphram pump (it is in the box over the 5 gallon jug) and the 1500 psi Cat pump in the back of the picture.

I would think that you could reduce your labor cost if you could rig up a way to clean the duct without putting a crew inside the duct.

Dave Olson
 

Attachments

  • tps-diaframpump.jpg
    tps-diaframpump.jpg
    30.6 KB · Views: 122
We tried not entering the duct but it gets so dirty and the grease is so gooey and sticky that it needs to be scraped, and the spinner is not as effective with the lower water volume and less pressure, especially with the size of the duct (3' dia). We actually do apply the chemicals the way you suggested, only we use a long wand (8') and the guy sprays behind him as he is backing out of the system so he can avoid the chems. I got that chemical application suggestion from you along time ago on this board by the way, Thanks
The chemicals and my spinner don't mix, I need to make my own so I don't have to worry about the chemicals seizing the bearings
 
Hello Bryan,

Ever thought of using a manifold and putting two or three of the 2-gpm pumps together? It might work! Sometimes it is hard to fine separate 20 amp breakers.

You may also need to mount your spinner on a stanchion to hold it in the center of the duct.

I hate putting guys in ducts if I can figure out a way to get it done using tools! ;) Again you may need to increase the concentrate of degreaser and increase the dwell time.

Bottom line. If you can figure out a way to hold or reduce your costs, you may be able to hang on to the account.

Just my $.02

Dave Olson
 
Bryan;
this might sound silly but you dont have to do the job do you?
I mean if he wants you to drop your price, tell him to call the other guy, tell him hey look its like this..... and if he dosent like it let him get someone else, i'd rather not do the job, if i cant do it right. theres alot of work out there for good hood cleaners, i dont think your going to go hungry with out this one. alot of times store owners/managers think they have us over a barrel, kinda like we cant live with out them. the nice thing about owning your own company is you can pick and choose to a point what you want to do or not to do. and more times than not when you stand on your principles/ethics they see your serious and either say ok or no, if they say no you dont need them any way because they'll find somthing to complain about anyway
but if your a glutton for punishment keep them
its your call
just my opinion
 
wash system

It's very possible the system could cost 10k to get back into shape....especially if it is really old.

What type of system is it?? (brand name)

Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top