Starting off in the Hood Cleaning Business

P

Przrat

New member
If I were a person considering starting a hood cleaning business and was looking at these forums I be immediately intimidated. I would think that I needed a lot more expensive equipment and specialized training than I really do. Most of the posters appear to have trailers with 3500 psi hot water machines and trucks to pull them. Along with specialized equipment like spinners, magnetic scrapers, exotic foamers and expensive certifications.

Actually you can start in this business without the big machines and trucks and equipment and certification. This may be unpopular but it is true. I use an electric 1200 psi machine, a small van and run off the restaurants hot water. Plus I reuse plastic sheeting. Another poster uses just a hose! Point is, whatever it takes to get the entire system clean, is ok to use. That means if you clean it with a rag and a scrub pad and do it right, you are in. In most areas certification is optional. For now.

I think these forums are here to help people in the business and to guide people looking to start off. Information and help.
 
In most areas certification is optional.
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Really? Last time I checked "most" areas follow NFPA 96, which states its not optional. Now what certification is optional............as long as its acceptable to the AHJ.
 
Yeah as long as it is clean it doesn't matter. I watched a deli hood in a airport get cleaned with razor scrapers only since they will not allow hoses on the roof of the airport and there is no more than a 15 amp service in the deli for electric. Took them just over 4 hours but it was clean.
 
The last time I checked the NFPA 96 FIRE CODES are recommendations not laws by any means. If the AHJ chooses to ignore them that is their option.
Ask any person from the NFPA and they will tell you that. Recommendations are just that......recommendations and when push comes to shove they are optional. The AHJ decide and we all know who the AHJ are. Anybody that has authority over you, including your mother.
 
Yeah but the problem with NFPA 96 wether it is reccomended as the standard or the law in place is that when a fire happens and is investigated the insurance company and the fire marshall use the NFPA 96 standard as the rule and then you are screwed.
The insurance institute of America adopted NFPA 96 as their rule for loss- payee's in 1999 and that is what the insurance ( both your policy and the facility you clean) are using as the standard. The fire marshal can find you at fault in the fire both civilly and crimilly based on his investigation and the standard he will use... NFPA 96.
I would not want to go into a deposition for an insurance company or a interview with a fire marshal saying the standard to which you are being held does not apply i would think it would be a slippery slope down a long hill with a bad finish at the bottom.
 
I agree with you. But the facts are.. what they are. NFPA being used to cover someones butt is not the same as it being a law. The NFPA likes their codes being recommendations, that way they cannot be held libel for anything. Especially with cleanings. You could come up with a set of codes and put them out there. Good marketing might make them popular. Many AHJ might use them but are they really the LAW?
Just imagine if every facitities system was held up to the NFPA codes. Not just cleaning but installation. I bet at least half if not more would be shut down.
 
Congratulations on a civil disagreement. Please be careful about personal attacks. They are bannable offenses.
 
I can only speak for GA, it IS law. Georgia code (which is law) states they follow NFPA 96, ipso facto..........NFPA 96 is the law, not a recomendation. I would bet that most states codes say the same thing.
 
Just so you can see

The Official Code of Georgia Annotated or OCGA is the compendium of all laws in the U.S. state of Georgia.
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One in particular, GA code 120-3-3-.04 State Minimum Fire Safety Standards with Modifications, has this, which basically says follow NFPA 96 with these exceptions.
(62) NFPA 96, 2004 Edition, Standard for Ventilation Control and Fire Protection of
Commercial Cooking Operations
Modifications:
(a) Modification to Chapter 1:
1. Delete subsection 1.1.3 in its entirety and substitute in its place the following:
“1.1.3 This standard shall apply to all commercial cooking equipment used for
commercial cooking operations.”
2. Delete subsection 1.1.4 in its entirety and substitute in its place the following:
“1.1.4 This standard shall not apply to residential cooking equipment located in a single
dwelling unit or to cooking equipment in facilities where all of the following are met:
(1) Only residential cooking equipment such as stoves, ranges or cooking surfaces
traditionally used in dwelling units are being utilized.
(2) The defined residential cooking equipment contains a maximum of four standard
surface cooking elements and is not used for frying operations.
(3) The defined residential equipment is used for food warming, limited cooking,
rehabilitation training or in a home economic education classroom setup.
(4) The residential cooking equipment is protected by a listed self-contained residential
fire suppression system located in an approved residential hood which is vented directly
to the outside and providing protection to each cooking surface
Exception to (4): The self-contained fire suppression system for the defined residential
cooking equipment need not be provided where protection is provided by an approved
automatic sprinkler system protecting the cooking surface, subject to approval of the
authority having jurisdiction. Required use of automatic disconnects of the fuel source or
power source is subject to approval of the authority having jurisdiction.
(5) The facility is not an assembly occupancy.
Exception to (5) Church facilities with a single residential stove or range complying
with (2) above.”
(6) Fire Extinguishers are located in all kitchen areas in accordance with NFPA 10,
Standard for Portable Fire Extinguishers.
“3. Add a new subsection 1.1.5 to read as follows:
“1.1.5 This standard shall not apply for conditions existing prior to the effective date of
this standard subject to the authority having jurisdiction where a notarized statement that
no frying operations will be preformed is provided.”
(b) Modification to Chapter 10:
1. Delete subsection 10.2.3 in its entirety and substitute in its place the following:
“10.2.3 Automatic fire extinguishing systems shall comply with UL 300, Standard for
Fire Testing of Fire Extinguishing Systems for Protection of Restaurant Cooking Areas,
or other equivalent standards and shall be installed in accordance with the requirements
of the manufacturer’s installation and maintenance manual.
“Exception No. 1: Systems (dry or wet chemical) installed prior to 1998, and which are
in compliance with the manufacturer’s listing. These systems shall be red tagged as non-
UL 300 compliant and must be replaced to a UL 300 compliant system when any of the
following apply:
“a. Appliance arrangement has been modified, or the hazard has been modified to
create a higher risk since the initial system installation.
“b. The system is discharged.
“c. The system is due for 6-year maintenance or is due hydro-testing.
“d. If listed manufacturer’s replacement parts, or the required extinguishing agent, are
needed but are not available.”
2. Delete subsection 10.2.6 in its entirety and substitute in its place the following:
“10.2.6 Automatic fire extinguishing systems shall be installed by competent personnel
meeting Chapter 120-3-23, Rules and Regulations of the Safety Fire Commissioner,
licensing and permit requirements, in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions,
and the following applicable standard(s):
“(1) NFPA 12, Standard on Carbon Dioxide Extinguishing Systems
“(2) NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems
“(3) NFPA 17, Standard for Dry Chemical Extinguishing Systems
“(4) NFPA 17A, Standard for Wet Chemical Extinguishing Systems”
3. Delete paragraph 10.10.1 in its entirety and substitute in its place the following:
“10.10.1* Portable fire extinguishers shall be installed in kitchen cooking areas in
accordance with 4.3.2 of NFPA 10 and shall be specifically listed for such use. An
approved type portable fire extinguisher and a placard as required by 4.3.2.2 of NFPA 10
shall be installed within 5 feet of each means of manual activation for the exhaust hood
fire-suppression system.”
4. Delete Section 13.2 in its entirety and substitute in its place the following:
“13.2 Design Restrictions. All recirculating systems shall comply with the
requirements of Section 13.2. Recirculating systems shall be limited to outdoor vending
areas or rooms that are fully sprinklered.”
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That is so nice of you Roger but we all don't live in the great state of Georgia and here in New England the codes are recommendations as in most states. Thanks anyway. Unfortunately after reading what you posted, I cannot see where it refers to cleaning anywhere. It is specific as to what it wants and what it doesnt want but says nothing about the cleaning. It apperas to me that the sections that they want are listed the ones they dont want are speciified and nothing about cleaning anywhere. Could you point out exactly where it says follow the NFPA 96. It seems fairly obvious that they selected what they want and ignored the rest.
Another minor point is that there have been a few revisions of the Fire Codes since 2004. I have 2008. There may be even 2009.
 
The very begining of that document says this, I didnt want to copy/paste the whole thing because its 130 pages long. LIke I said (if you would actually read) GA follows NFPA 96 except for the parts they changed above.

120-3-3-.04 State Minimum Fire Safety Standards with Modifications.
(1) Unless otherwise stated in this chapter, the edition of the International Fire Code (IFC), and
the following editions of the codes, standards, recommended practices, guides and methods, as published in
the National Fire Codes (NFC) by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA), as adopted and
modified in this Chapter, shall be the state minimum fire safety standards. Where any of the adopted
publications of the NFPA references NFPA 1 or NFPA 5000, it shall be construed that such references
apply to the International Fire Code (IFC) or the International Building Code (IBC) respectively, as
adopted by this Chapter 120-3-3 and the Georgia Department of Community Affairs. Where the IFC or IBC
3
does not specifically address the referenced issue, NFPA 1 or NFPA 5000 may be applied subject to the
approval of the authority having jurisdiction.
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And it doesnt matter what version NFPA is up to, you need to follow the version your state follows.

A quick search for MA found this.

Why do we have regulations and what authority do they have legally?

Regulations set forth standards for public health and safety, licensing of professionals, consumer and environmental protection, among others. Regulations have the force and effect of law like statutes. They are created and enforced by executive branch agencies, which are given the rulemaking authority by the legislature.
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So it may not be law in MA but MA considers them to have the same power. Id say a little more the the "recomendations" you say they are.
 
And for the life of me, no where in NFPA 96 or any other code can I find a reference to not cleaning the duct/fan when its cold outside being ok.............hmmmmm
 
Point of fact 1. NFPA 96 are standards. They become codes only when they are adopted as such. 2. They are not revised yearly.
As you all seem to agree they are a wise set of rules to follow.
 
Boys Boys, the point of this post was that this forum makes it seem almost impossible to start up in this business. I was hoping to encourage other people to look into this business. It did save me from working for "THE MAN". Profitable and rewarding. Something I would like to share.

The codes are , no matter what you call them, standards, guidelines, recommendations are not laws. They are guidelines/ standards, written by by whom? I bet they are set up by people that install hoods, run certification schools along with others in the business. I never hear that they are set up by Fire Marshalls. Maybe they are,but if they were why are so many of they lacking in their knowledge of these codes. Anyway....They are excellent [/B]standards that we should all adhere to. If we didn't have them where would our businesses be? My point was and is they are not the law.

Thanks Rog. I believe that the codes were called references in what you posted subject to the all encompassing AHJ. The term AHJ means whom? One thing though, the Fire Inspectors here in Boston, MA have stood up and said that they are the AHJ. Thats half the battle, sifting thru all the verbage to find someone or some authority to take the mantle of AHJ.

I agree with the codes and am thankful we have them. I do not advocate not adhering to them. There are more codes than just the cleaning ones. Installation and safety are also part of them. If the system is not built to code then what? A safe work area for inspection and cleaning of the fan.
Rog you and I look at that differently. We can because the codes are vague enough to be interpreted differently. I hold the installers to their part of the codes. It is not my responsibility to fix or modify their shoddy work. If my work is to be held up to the code, so should theirs.

But again my post was intended to encourage people to come here for insight and help. It takes a special kind of person to succeed in business especially this one, with the slime and crazy hours and cranky restauranteurs. We shouldn't be scarey.
 
One more point, I never said anything about not adhering to the codes. Roger twists what I say then drags me into this stuff all the time. I should know better by now.
I said certification. Consider certification, Delco's, IKECA, Rusty, Black Magic and the innumerable other schools of certification out there. Some tell you how to clean, what to buy and lots of other stuff. All you need to know are the NFPA96 codes. They set the standards. If you comply with them you will be ok. How you clean and what you clean with is really not applicable. Unless of course you are using something very dangerous. Only this year was the first time I read where any school was certified by the AHJ, Fire Marshalls in Boston. IKECA. I believe they have a written test.
 
The codes are , no matter what you call them, standards, guidelines, recommendations are not laws.
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Again, bad information, in GA and MANY other states it IS LAW.

I hold the installers to their part of the codes. It is not my responsibility to fix or modify their shoddy work. If my work is to be held up to the code, so should theirs.
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That is ludicrous. What your saying is since the installer did not follow code I dont have to ie; The installer didnt install access panels therefor I dont have to clean it. Ive heard you say that on several occasions.

You are one scary dude ed, glad I dont own a restaurant in your area.
 
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