something no one want's to talk about

I would just like to say, that although I did vote for Bush, I was for McCain, I would like to say that I am glad that he is president right now in this situation. Even though it is his fault we are there. As I see it, the situation we are in is nothing more than a continuance of our own CIA screwing things up for us. I mean think about it. Look at the conflicts over the last 20 years, and then look who was "taking care of business". The CIA is the reason that the Islams hate us, and don't be fooled, they do hate us. But it is the CIA blunderings that have pulled the country into war. Look at Afganistan, The CIA is over there pre Bin Lauden and Taliban. The Taliban comes to power and does away with the opium fields. The CIA then determines that the Taliban needs to go because of "humanitarian" rights violations, they know that Bin Lauden is a problem and decide not to do anything. Then Bin Laudens gang decides that the CIA screws them over, and since the CIA is from the USA, and the USA supports the evil Jews, then the USA must go. All in all look at what is happening in Afganistan now. Opium is again the main crop. Don't fool yourself into thinking this about oil, or evil dictators. Look back to just about any conflict after WWII and with exception of the Cuba missle crisis, and you will find the CIA and drugs. The truth is always concealled, and in fact, the media is nothing more than an extension of goverment control. This is terribly obvious to me because I follow a golden rule. Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. With this being said, I totally support our troops, because they are the ones being put on the line when things go to far, and they ARE the only thing standing in between us and something tragic.
 
And one other thing. Why is it that nobody ever asks why we are involved with something? I mean does anyone ask about how come we have federal agents at our door step when we say something like the president needs to go, but when there are millions of emails, and chat posts about an attack, there is nothing done, and they try to make themselves look stupid. I mean look at the big picture people, in 1974 we had the stealth fighter, but nobody knows about it for 30 years. And I as a citizen am supposed to believe that the CIA and FBI, and national security people, didn't know anything about it. But we know when some illegal immagrent from saudi, or Iraq, sneezes. Come on. Look at CNN, the inspectors find current neuclear weapons program documents, and you hear a blurb about it..... This is the only evidence we need, but you don't hear anything else about it. I was born at night but it wasn't last night. The real questions would be, why do we go over to these countries, for oil, when Russia has the worlds largest oil supply in the world? Why don't we just get our oil from them if it is really what we are in need for it? Why do we support Isreal so much? Is it guilt? In my mind Isreal has the weapons and intel to protect itself, if we would just let them do it. In other words, how does this country get itself into these situations? if the real problem was saddam, we would have taken care of the situation 10 years ago. In my mind saddam isn't the problem, it's something else. Does anyone remember Oliver North? Wasn't Iraq involved with that? I mean how come North Korea is all of a sudden a big problem, when we have had troops there for the last 50 years? If our government is so out of touch with things that all of these things can happen right under thier noses then why are they there in the first place? Unless we ask ourselves and them how does this all happen?
 
Max, are you on crack, Musslims have hated westeners a lot longer than the CIA has been around, I think you might find it goes back to the Crusades of the middle ages.
It just so happens that America is the easiest to hate, because we are the biggest baddest SOB's to walk through the valley, and directly or indirectly dictate world policies! But make no mistake, it's not just Americans they want to kill, they'd like to take out all those liberal europeans that seem to be on their side.

Talk about Ironic!

Gav
 
well outlaw,
I wasn't going to go back to the middle ages, but i can conceide that to you. :). But rather I was just taking a different look at things that have happened in the last 50 years. It just seems odd to me that every tagic thing that has happened to the US is followed by an "damn, wish we had known that" from the government. It's only 60 years after pearl harbor do we find out that in fact there was lots of advance notice, but people in the military and government, choose to ignore it. HMMMMMM, just think about that, and ask yourself the following. Were was the popular expression of the 2nd world war, before pearl harbor? Seems to me that US Citizens didn't want to get involved..... History has proven that it's only when you kick the sleeping dog, that the dog bites....... Pretty predictable if you ask me. look at the civil liberties that millions of people gave up at the expence of 3000 people. Seems to me that we are saying to the world that we are willing to give up the freedoms that we enjoy and that hundreds of thousands of servicemen have died for, because the big dog got kicked in the balls. I just wonder if 50 years from now we find out that our government really knew what was comming on sept. 11, and knew that something like that would serve a bigger plan. Just something to think about. But then again, I would sign up to die for what liberties we do have left.
 
Two things-first-people should never join the military for the money and then complain because the pay is so low. In 1965 when I enlisted in the Maine Corp my base pay was $98 per month with overseas pay of $15 and combat pay for $65. For those two tours I saved lots of money-no place to spend it.

A guy working on a computer in a rear area deserves all he can get-however don't tell me how bad you have it.

Second-the true hate goes back to the crusades and it comes down to the West vs. the East . We are in their cross hairs and we can't get out. We must do everything to limit the ability of those to pull the trigger. We have completed our duty in the past and we will do it now. Just wish that I was 20.

David
 
Max,

What I think your failing to understand, is the fact that theres not a goverment in the world that does not keep secrets from it's citizens, heck, even the Villiage Cheif does not divulge everything to the villagers. Winston Churchill said the hardest thing he ever did, was to make the discision not to tell the people of Coventry about the planned Blitz, because by doing so, it would have let the Germans know we had their code, therefore possibly prolonging the war and caausing many many more deaths.

Common sense logic tells you that the goverment can't share all imformation with us, particuarly when it comes to National security, because if we know, then so do they.

Not every descision made at the top will be right, but they have to be made, and I'm glad I'm not the one that has to make them, it's hard enough raising and protecting a family, let alone a whole nation.

Gav
 
David:

I think you may have mis-read the intent of the comments in that letter. The guy writing it wasn't griping about his situation, he was defending it against some left wing nutjob who thinks he didn't deserve a 13% increase after 8 years of a Clintonian damage to the military. He was simply pointing out that the money isn't great, nor are the conditions at times. He wasn't griping about getting the short end.
 
Mike

We agree more than we disagree, however my point being is that they knew the history and the pay. His come back reply and state the job on the outside is 70k-then he now has something to look forward to when he gets his discharge.

David

Raider Nation:p
 
Jon,

In answer to your question about two family members being in the same theatre of operations. Doesn't matter. To be honest they have no real way of knowing.

When Desert Shield/Storm kicked off, I was married. Both of us were sent to the desert. I was in one place and she in another. Our 3 kids had to be sent to their grandmothers, who at the time was in Loredo TX. We were at Scott AFB, IL. Talk about a logistical nightmare.


I just would like to hear President Bush tell the French and Germans just what it is he knows, that you and I don't by the way, that proves there are weapons of mass destruction in IRAQ. I know the government holds back, always will, but the head of the US can tell the heads of Germany and France exactly what Bush knows that should be compelling enough to prove what we are saying about IRAQ. Let's get on with it.

And to that idiot Mr. O'Keefe, who is an ex marine, going over to IRAQ for a human shield. Son, you are dead if you think you can do anything with Madman Hussien. You are a westerner, you will be dragged through the streets.

Reed
 
Reed, I disagree, The French and the germans are well aware of Sadamms capabilities, they may not know everything but they know enough. Maybe I'm just not politically correct enough, but to hell with the pair of them.

Maybe its being raised in England all my life, but over there, we know for a fact that niether of these "nations" are to be trusted, and anybody that doesn't think Germany doesn't need to be watched closely is very much mistaken!

gav
 
Gav,

Maybe your right, they do know, but don't want to let on. The reason I say this is I have been watching CNN and FNC everyday almost all day, (kind of worried for my boys) and Germany and France just changed their wording. I think what the Asst Sec of Def just reported has been the most told to us by our officials. I still think there is more to the story than what we, the general public, are lead to believe. That's ok, we will be told when the time is right. I, for one, have no problem in "marching to Bagdad", I support it fully. It just really burns me up about those who don't see the whole pictue. They will come to understand very shortly and I think it will open a few closed and blinded eyes. I don't trust Germany any more than I trust France. We don't really need France or Germany for us to move forward. Italy being on the positive side for "action" should send a message to these two countries. Italy has in the past not been a country to support the policies of the US.

Reed
 
Hey Reed,

your boys are in my thoughts, my boy doesn't leave for basic training untill June, and my wife is already a basket case everytime she thinks about it, which is most of the time.

Gav
 
Thanks Gav,

Your boy will do you two proud I'm sure. All my respect to him for choosing to serve.

Reed
 
Talk about government not telling all they know, is the USA any different, NO, we torture people, we kill, we spy just like the others do.

The following is a TRUE STORY, I will do my best to keep it short and the reason I know it is true because he was my cousin.

He was an only child, excelled in everything he did, smarter then others and 4.0 grade. Not sure just how but in college the Army signed him up and sent him to language school in CA, he learned to read, speak and write several over the years. He was an Army esponage agent, a SPY and worked many places in his 30 years with them. Won't go into all the places but every time he had leave he flew to CA to spend time with my folks, many a story was told that could not be repeated.

He retired, he had to go though six month of de (cannot recall word) but they covered everything he ever knew and was told to forget.

He could not get a job, every job he applied to he was OVER QUALIFIED.

His last visit to us he gave my dad his service gun, no serial number, no name either. He also gave my dad all his personal papers, bank books etc.

Less then a year later he died, no one was ever told of what, no record of him exist, the years of savings, no record of it, his personal belongings, no record of it. After my dad died I got the papers and contacted the Army, I got a phone call one evening and the person on the other end was very nice to me, said destory all the papers and forgot you ever had a cousin named Donald if you understand what I am saying. I asked just what does that mean, his reply was cold as hell, do you want the same thing to follow me? I understood well what he meant and asked just one other question where is he buried, curt reply WHO are you talking about? I said my cousin Don, he said no such person.

I took the hint, I firmly believe that our government killed him because of what he knew.

Prove me wrong if you can.

I also have a living cousin that worked for "The Company" and we talk once in awhile but never about what he did, I asked him one question to be sure what The Company is, you guess right if you say CIA.

The above as I said is 100% true, I don't make things up nor lie nor do I like liars.

So don't think the USA is any different then any other country, we are not. Bigger, badder, meaner perhaps but still we do the same thing they do. just don't talk about it as much.
 
Jon,
THats some story and I don't mean that in any disrespectful way. What I know about you from e-mail and posting I would say that you are a very honest individual so I would not question the validity of your story at all.

When I was in the Navy in the early 80's I did my time in the coast of Beriut Lebenon. I have nothing but the utmost respect for anyone that serves his country. Why people in the 60's shut out the Veitnam Vets I'll never understand. Yes I could see that people were upset with this country over that war but to treat our military men the way they were treated by the public was a disgraced. These men were just doing there job and for that I am forever thankful to them even though if I was old enough back then I might not have supported that war either.

As for Iraq...I believe in my President so I will support his decision but hopefully he does give the people what they need to know right before we attach Iraq so this doesn't become a War that becomes unpopular and once again our Men who put there life on the lines for this country get treated badly when they get home. That would be a disgrace but History always has a way of repeating itself over and over.

Back to your Story yes I believe that could and does happen. When I was in the Navy I had a Secret Clearance and some stuff I was privy to which dealt with Officers who were in violation of the Navy and were Discharged because of these violations which on the outside never would even have been considered this tells me that anything could happen.

I look at it as a Human element. ITs there and it will always be there. At least in this Country it doesn't happen all to much and the few times it does some people will be effected by it and the repercussions will ripple over to guys like your self even though you obvioulsy aren't involved.

Still by Far and I mean Very Far, This is the greatest Country by a long long shot. Some countries may be better to visit but there is nothing that is even close to as far as living and bringing up a family in.
 
I don't doubt the validity of your story, either, Jon. I do disagree, however, that we are "no different". Granted, this country has, is, and will do things that are not right. We have to remember that this is a country of people, run by people. Not all those people have the same ethical or moral positions. To one person, killing your cousin was fine because it was in the best interest of national security. To another it was wrong because he had a right to his life. You could make some good arguements for both positions.

The difference between us and many other nations is that we, for the most part, try to do the right thing. We are a free country in many aspects, and many of us value that and beleive it is the inherent right of all people in the world to live free.

I'm not naieve enough to think that everything we do is based on our desire to help others, nor am I blind to the fact that some of the things we do are self-serving (and in many cases rightly so). For every thing you can point to that the US has done wrong there are probably hundreds none of us know about. If you're looking for a country that always does everything right with the purest of motives, you'll be looking for a long time.

The good we have done far far outweighs the bad.

To say the US is no different than any other nation is to say we're no different than Hitler's Germany, or Saddam's Iraq. With that I have to strongly disagree.
 
As far as expecting the government to tell us everything, that's just plain silly. There are many things various individuals and agencies in the government know that would be very damaging to our country if they were made public.

Why are we going into Iraq, if we do? Some reasons are apparent. Some aren't. How much of a threat is Saddam? I don't know. I'm sure I don't know even a tiny fraction of what key people in government know about that. Do I expect our government to tell all, despite repercussions? Of course not. Am I stupid enough to think it is "just about oil?" Hardly.
 
Hey Reed Havent seen you in awhile,

As a veteran of Desert Storm and working with a orginization for 3 years with 3 letters that arent CIA, I can attest to the fact that the general public knows less than 25% of what is really going on. ( My contract with them was only a 97 year agreement, i have 86 years to go) What we have to do is make decisions based upon what they want us to know. Whether you agree or disagree with what we end up doing in Iraq, we must always support the decisions of our military, not necesarily the government, if we dont like the actions taken, we need to remember that come ELECTION time. On a personal note, I dont think a President should be eliglbe for election without serving his country and knowing what he is asking of his soldiers. If we do go to war, lifes will be lost, let us not EVER forget why ! Not for oil, not for weapons of mass destruction, but for the simple fact that they were asked to serve their country. And they did!
 
Rob Smith said:
Hey Reed Havent seen you in awhile,

As a veteran of Desert Storm and working with a orginization for 3 years with 3 letters that arent CIA, I can attest to the fact that the general public knows less than 25% of what is really going on. ( My contract with them was only a 97 year agreement, i have 86 years to go) What we have to do is make decisions based upon what they want us to know. Whether you agree or disagree with what we end up doing in Iraq, we must always support the decisions of our military, not necesarily the government, if we dont like the actions taken, we need to remember that come ELECTION time. On a personal note, I dont think a President should be eliglbe for election without serving his country and knowing what he is asking of his soldiers. If we do go to war, lifes will be lost, let us not EVER forget why ! Not for oil, not for weapons of mass destruction, but for the simple fact that they were asked to serve their country. And they did!
Click to expand...

Old post, very good point.
 
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