Serving and Protekting

John and Mike,

Change does not come with lighthearted banter. Read some of the literature that was floating around in 1775. I know for a fact there were quite a few redcoats who were good and loyal British subjects and family men.

But what they were doing while perfectly LEGAL was just wrong. Many of them defected. Many of the ones who didn't defect died fighting for a tyrant.

What the police departments are doing has been stamped as legal by our modern courts. But it is in opposition to our constitution and just plain wrong.

How do we go about affecting change?

Or do you believe all these people who are illegally stopped, searched, harassed, beaten and killed deserved it because they didn't "submit" in the proper manner?
 
John and Mike,

Change does not come with lighthearted banter. Read some of the literature that was floating around in 1775. I know for a fact there were quite a few redcoats who were good and loyal British subjects and family men.

But what they were doing while perfectly LEGAL was just wrong. Many of them defected. Many of the ones who didn't defect died fighting for a tyrant.

What the police departments are doing has been stamped as legal by our modern courts. But it is in opposition to our constitution and just plain wrong.

How do we go about affecting change?

Or do you believe all these people who are illegally stopped, searched, harassed, beaten and killed deserved it because they didn't "submit" in the proper manner?

Tony,
In order to change a problem you need to address the root casue of the problem. If someone has cancer, you can't put a bandaid on their thumb and hope that does the trick. What the the root cause of the problem that you see?? Is it a system of laws that you do not like, the enforcement of the laws in the manner prescribed by the courts? The political system in this country?? Once you decide what the root of the problem is, go after addressing that. I don't believe that all cops go oto work each day and say to themselves " I can't wait to beat someone's ass today, or I can't wait to violate someone's rights" The problems that you see with police may be a symptom of a system that you find unfitting to what our forefathers developed. If that is the case, running for office would be a start. However I think that we can all agree that the political system is a mess in this country. John's advice for running for office is spot on. You have to judge each incident on its own merits, not lump everyone together.

A few years back, in Rockland County New York, a powerwasher was doing a deck job for someone. After work, his worker returned to the house and raped and murdered the woman. It does not mean that all powerwashers are rapists and murderers. I am sure that anyone reading this post can understand that.
Off to work. Have a good one!
 
Michael, everything you are saying sounds good in theory. And yes, addressing the root cause of the problem to enact change SHOULD produce results.

But sometimes you have to deal with the immediate issue right now while tackling the root cause on a long term basis.

For example if your house is on fire the root cause is important, but not until you get the fire extinguished!

Our nation is on fire! This needs to be stopped NOW.

If you insist on working on the root cause, let's do that as we go along. Hopefully you can help me. But at the same time let's work on putting the fire that is burning our constitution.

Maybe we can have some dialogue here between two sides. I know this takes time out of our work so don't feel obligated to reply back at a fast pace, just when you have time.

The fire:

The police as a whole project dominance at every encounter, even casual ones.

The question:

Why? And what are the other alternatives, if any?

Discussion:

Michael, Chris had a blowout on the freeway with our flatbed pulling the lift the other day. He called immediately and was pretty shook up about it. They ended up on the shoulder of the road about 2 ft outside the right white line at the end of a section where the road was already merging left and the lane they were outside of as ending Anyway. Additionally there were barrel sized cones about every 50 ft because of construction that had been going on, but the barrels were placed off the roadway at this time.

After about 2 minutes Chris called and asked me if I would swing by with a better jack because the one they had was too slow an not rated for the weight.

I got in the truck and headed to the scene. On the way, about a mile from the scene there was a small traffic backup where a highway patrol had someone pulled over on the shoulder in a curve. Of course, everyone was slamming on their brakes.

It took me about 15 minutes to get there. During this time they had been struggling with the other jack. They had removed all the lug nuts but hadn't gotten it high enough to remove the flat. I gave them theother jack and they went to work alternating between the two jacks.

I went behind them about 300 ft and moved some of the barrel cones in a diagonal fashion from the wall till the one closest to the scene was about 2 ft outside the white line. ALL of this is taking place ON the shoulder OUTSIDE the white line.

They just got the jack high enough to remove the flat tire when a highway patrol officer showed up. He got out barking orders from 50 ft back. "Get this f@#$ing truck moved up to there!" I looked at where "there" was and I saw that there was an area ahead about 200 ft away where the shoulder was mysteriously about a foot wider.

I said, "They've already got the flat off."

By this time he had moved up to where they were working on it and saw they were having a problem with the jacks and it had only gotten high enough to remove the flat, but not high enough to put on the spare. He said "I don't give a damn how you do it, but you're gonna move this truck up to there. You're blocking traffic". (still yelling)

I looked at the traffic. They weren't even slowing down. The lane we were outside of was ending anyway and by the time they got to us they had all merged into the next lane like they were supposed to.

Now I'm pissed.

I said, "If you want it moved call a tow truck asshole".

I told the boys to keep working and don't pay any attention to this moron.

He said, "You can't talk to me like that".

I said "When you can show me the Nevada Revised Statute that says I can't, then I'll stop. Where does it say you can come up yelling the "f" word to people who are just trying to deal with a bad situation?"

He got all red and huffed off to his car where he stood till we were done.

We never said another word to him and just drove off when we were done.

Question: (for this exercise let's say this man is under your command)

First, Why? Why would anyone with a badge think it is ok to treat citizens like that.

Second, Where did they learn this technique of dealing with citizens?

Third, What benefit does this type of aggressive encounter serve?

Fourth, should this officer be reprimanded?

Fifth, How?

Sixth, should this type of behavior be allowed?

Seventh, what type of training could help eliminate this?

Eighth, How many complaints like this would it take before this man is considered unsuitable for the force (or is he exactly what you want on the force?)

(by the way, Michael, I know your first thought is that I must be leaving something out or lying about something - probably because I'm not a cop - lol - and you can either take my word and work on the problem or not. What I have told you is the truth. I don't have to make things like this up. My response back to him reflects language that I don't use on a regular basis, but it is what I said and I've kept the narrative true even when it makes me look like a jerk.
 
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