Paint washed away, help

jlpressure

jlpressure

JL Pressure Washing
Hey guys need some help. We had some paint on aluminum fascia and trim just WASH AWAY this week. It looks horrible and its in several areas of 2 buildings. Let me explain and give you thoughts on why it happened and walk you through the whole mess and hear your thoughts
We were washing 30+ townhome buildings, we had 27 washed and 2 out of the last 3 buildings we had major paint failure on the ALUMINUM trim. Also in two other little spots on two other buildings, small spots of paint washed away too. Of course the homeowners and at first the manager thought it was our fault. Hey I understand, we wash there buildings and rinse and paint just flows off.

I have been going crazy with this trying to figure what happened and am pretty sure I know exactly what happened
I want to know what some of you experts think and then ask what kind of paint I should use to fix this. Yes I know it wasnt our wash process of house wash mix that did this, but I am going to eat this one instead of telling them sorry, not my fault

I bid this job in 2009 and also 2010, in 2009, I was told I lost the bid, because another contractor got the job and I asked the manager why he got it. The manager said the contractor sold the property on using hot water and a quality chemical to clean the property. So the other contractor washes the property in May 2009
The manager tells me in early 2010, that they had a lot of problems with the contractor and I asked her like what?

The property has an irrigation system, but NO orange iron rust stains EVER showed on the siding, this contractor whatever he used to wash the buildings, when he applied it and was finished ORANGE RUST STAINS APPEARED on many many buildings at ground level where irrigation heads would get irrigation water on the siding. At the time I told the manager, I had never seen anything like that ever happen and I questioned her about it, she said she knows he used hot water and I asked her if he used bleach mix or something else, she said she thought something else but did not know what. I have since this all happened if she knew what he used, she doesn’t.

Now these orange rust stains appear for him washing, so then he refuses to remove tham and says its not part of his contract, they tell him to remove them if he wants his money. He goes back and uses some kind of rust removal product or something and then he kills grass wherever he applys the rust remover and they freak again, so that’s that

Now I am trying to figure why basically ONLY on 2 buildings out of 30+ we have this major paint failure. On our trucks, we have 12% and Dawn, then also powder form of Oxalic, NO oxalic was mixed up, no other chems were mixed in our mix, so I wonder if its maybe something wrong with our 12% we had got some new 12% the day prior and still had some older 12%. On these last 3 buildings, we were gangbanging them and 4 my employees were washing them to finish up, some were using newer 12% and some were using older( a few day old) 12%. Paint removed on the two buildings using old or new

Now we had already in 2 days using ALL the SAME 12% with NO PROBLEMS, except one area the paint came off aluminum trim in a perfect circle and another area of about 10 inches, no big deal I have seen this happen for some reason in the past and we just spray painted the area

Now these two messed up areas it’s a total of 10 units and it happened to about 5 – 10% of the Aluminum trim, many right at the entrance of each of the 10 units, most of the paint washing away was from a 8 foot section of trim that is under an entrance over hang, but it also was on a few areas of fascia aluminum also. It’s a flipping mess

BACK TO the other contractor last year. Pretty sure he used something other than bleach, because of the orange iron stain APPEARING.

I have talked to a few contractor and all have said maybe he used a Sodium hydroxite (sp) like a stripper or something like a gutter black streak remover. That got me thinking and asking questions. I know if I use (I think its Bobs F13 or F XX? the stuff to remove black streak from gutters) If I use that, in the past I have spilt a little on driveways and all of a sudden ORANGE iron stains appear on the concrete, just wherever its dripped on the concrete, so I now figure looking back, these houses driveways had irrigation spray on them and this product or similar products bring out the Orange on the concrete

NOW why didn’t all the buildings trim paint wash away??????????. I figure he used a product and maybe just didn’t rinse these two buildings well or at all and this stuff sat there for a long time, breaking down the paint and when we come along, we aplly our house mix and then rinse, it just washes right off into a white liquid…ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?????, something caused this, heck I could of made my 12% and Apple Blossom Dawn mix 2, 3, 4 times stronger and it still wouldn’t strip paint, heck it only stayed on 3-5 minutes before we rinsed.

I know its not our mix, but how do you tell the homeowners this, they see us wash and the next thing they see there trim paint washed away. I have talked to the manager and a couple of the owners and I think I have them understanding but its still a mess I have to deal with

We are going to take care of it and I am going there Monday to take a closer look and hopefully meet with more of the owners. I want them to know what I think happened and mostly know that it wasn’t us that caused this mess, its PRIOR DAMGE . I am sending one of my guys to this place next week for a few days to paint the crap. I want these owners to know ITS not us, this is my reputation here

ANOTHER question, what the best paint to apply to bare aluminum??????????????, there is some paint left on in spots and its pretty tight. I just want to find the right and best product so we don’t have problems down the line later

Sorry for the long post, but just need some professional input. I am going to write a letter and state what I know and think to the Manager & HOA, I want it on record and clear my name

Thanks
Life is good, but a pain at times too…LOL
 
jlpressure said:
Hey guys need some help. We had some paint on aluminum fascia and trim just WASH AWAY this week. It looks horrible and its in several areas of 2 buildings. Let me explain and give you thoughts on why it happened and walk you through the whole mess and hear your thoughts
We were washing 30+ townhome buildings, we had 27 washed and 2 out of the last 3 buildings we had major paint failure on the ALUMINUM trim. Also in two other little spots on two other buildings, small spots of paint washed away too. Of course the homeowners and at first the manager thought it was our fault. Hey I understand, we wash there buildings and rinse and paint just flows off.

I have been going crazy with this trying to figure what happened and am pretty sure I know exactly what happened
I want to know what some of you experts think and then ask what kind of paint I should use to fix this. Yes I know it wasnt our wash process of house wash mix that did this, but I am going to eat this one instead of telling them sorry, not my fault

I bid this job in 2009 and also 2010, in 2009, I was told I lost the bid, because another contractor got the job and I asked the manager why he got it. The manager said the contractor sold the property on using hot water and a quality chemical to clean the property. So the other contractor washes the property in May 2009
The manager tells me in early 2010, that they had a lot of problems with the contractor and I asked her like what?

The property has an irrigation system, but NO orange iron rust stains EVER showed on the siding, this contractor whatever he used to wash the buildings, when he applied it and was finished ORANGE RUST STAINS APPEARED on many many buildings at ground level where irrigation heads would get irrigation water on the siding. At the time I told the manager, I had never seen anything like that ever happen and I questioned her about it, she said she knows he used hot water and I asked her if he used bleach mix or something else, she said she thought something else but did not know what. I have since this all happened if she knew what he used, she doesn’t.

Now these orange rust stains appear for him washing, so then he refuses to remove tham and says its not part of his contract, they tell him to remove them if he wants his money. He goes back and uses some kind of rust removal product or something and then he kills grass wherever he applys the rust remover and they freak again, so that’s that

Now I am trying to figure why basically ONLY on 2 buildings out of 30+ we have this major paint failure. On our trucks, we have 12% and Dawn, then also powder form of Oxalic, NO oxalic was mixed up, no other chems were mixed in our mix, so I wonder if its maybe something wrong with our 12% we had got some new 12% the day prior and still had some older 12%. On these last 3 buildings, we were gangbanging them and 4 my employees were washing them to finish up, some were using newer 12% and some were using older( a few day old) 12%. Paint removed on the two buildings using old or new

Now we had already in 2 days using ALL the SAME 12% with NO PROBLEMS, except one area the paint came off aluminum trim in a perfect circle and another area of about 10 inches, no big deal I have seen this happen for some reason in the past and we just spray painted the area

Now these two messed up areas it’s a total of 10 units and it happened to about 5 – 10% of the Aluminum trim, many right at the entrance of each of the 10 units, most of the paint washing away was from a 8 foot section of trim that is under an entrance over hang, but it also was on a few areas of fascia aluminum also. It’s a flipping mess

BACK TO the other contractor last year. Pretty sure he used something other than bleach, because of the orange iron stain APPEARING.

I have talked to a few contractor and all have said maybe he used a Sodium hydroxite (sp) like a stripper or something like a gutter black streak remover. That got me thinking and asking questions. I know if I use (I think its Bobs F13 or F XX? the stuff to remove black streak from gutters) If I use that, in the past I have spilt a little on driveways and all of a sudden ORANGE iron stains appear on the concrete, just wherever its dripped on the concrete, so I now figure looking back, these houses driveways had irrigation spray on them and this product or similar products bring out the Orange on the concrete

NOW why didn’t all the buildings trim paint wash away??????????. I figure he used a product and maybe just didn’t rinse these two buildings well or at all and this stuff sat there for a long time, breaking down the paint and when we come along, we aplly our house mix and then rinse, it just washes right off into a white liquid…ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?????, something caused this, heck I could of made my 12% and Apple Blossom Dawn mix 2, 3, 4 times stronger and it still wouldn’t strip paint, heck it only stayed on 3-5 minutes before we rinsed.

I know its not our mix, but how do you tell the homeowners this, they see us wash and the next thing they see there trim paint washed away. I have talked to the manager and a couple of the owners and I think I have them understanding but its still a mess I have to deal with

We are going to take care of it and I am going there Monday to take a closer look and hopefully meet with more of the owners. I want them to know what I think happened and mostly know that it wasn’t us that caused this mess, its PRIOR DAMGE . I am sending one of my guys to this place next week for a few days to paint the crap. I want these owners to know ITS not us, this is my reputation here

ANOTHER question, what the best paint to apply to bare aluminum??????????????, there is some paint left on in spots and its pretty tight. I just want to find the right and best product so we don’t have problems down the line later

Sorry for the long post, but just need some professional input. I am going to write a letter and state what I know and think to the Manager & HOA, I want it on record and clear my name

Thanks
Life is good, but a pain at times too…LOL
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Hey Jeff use and oil base paint on the aluminum what has happen i think is they used different paint on that part of the trim go to Sherwin Williams and they will help you an tell you what you need to use i use them all the time make sure you use a good primer as well give me a call some time when you get a chance.
 
I agree to ask Sherwin Williams but we use a water based product they sell on metal called Sher Cryl that is a direct to metal paint. See what they recommend.
 
Doug Dahlke said:
I agree to ask Sherwin Williams but we use a water based product they sell on metal called Sher Cryl that is a direct to metal paint. See what they recommend.
Click to expand...


Hey do you have to use a primer with that if so what do you use we are doing a lot of painting this year
 
lonnie greenwood said:
Hey Jeff use and oil base paint on the aluminum what has happen i think is they used different paint on that part of the trim go to Sherwin Williams and they will help you an tell you what you need to use i use them all the time make sure you use a good primer as well give me a call some time when you get a chance.
Click to expand...

It was the factory finish that washed away, there was no repaint that we can tell/see
 
I'm sorry to hear that sucks it just sounds like good old paint failure to me. First check to see what you are painting over take a rag with denatured alcohol on it and wipe the existing paint if it breaks down and comes off onto the rag then its latex if not its an oil base product which will have to be sanded good and primed with either and oil base primer or latex primer then you can top coat it with a latex paint Primer's have different adhesion properties than paint that's the only reason you can put a latex primer over an oil paint but its up to you down here I paint fascia with latex all the time and never had any problems with it just make sure what you are putting it over is on there good "Paint is only as good as what's underneath it" deal but Sherwin Williams will be able to set you straight but they are going to need to know what you are putting onto so check the existing paint so they can help you better. One last thing down here in florida it sucks working with oil's on metal its so hot the metal will dry the paint up so fast that you basically get on pull with your brush if you try to go back over it again it turns to sh*t latex will do the same but its a little more forgiving and make sure you buy a bottle of baby oil and cover yourself in it before you mess with oil base paint because it's a bitch to get off
Good luck to ya I hope everything works out between you and your customer I hate that this is coming on to you because of someone else's mistake
 
As said above, go to Sherwin Williams. Sher Cryl or DTM are both acrylic metal paints. I've used both. The Sher Cryl is the newer product and offers better coverage and color retention. They may recommend a primer if its bare aluminum, but it will be a latex primer. You do not want to use oil base primer or paints on bare aluminum. The paint will end up popping off.
 
I think you nailed it, your just not realizing you found the problem.

The poor rinsing cause you to mix two chem's, have you taken Chemistry Jeff?

Well when you mix to chems that are different and you get something else. This something else might eat the Chrome off your car much less some water based cheap exterior paint.

If your seeing this stuff come off did you try rinsing first? I know this is a hassel but its a test.

Your investigative Mind you found the problem, two different Chems mixed together will cause this reaction. I have seen it done it and paid for it.
 
Last time this Happened to me was on Awnings. Turned one pink zebra that was orange.

When we went to the Next one we rinsed...The guy had left enough of what he had used in the awing alls we had to do was rinse the rest. Detergent ran off then that was dried in the material for 4 minutes while we rinsed.

The customer verified to us that why they let the guy go. Window cleaners couldnt get the film off the windows for months after the guy washed them.

Oh she also metioned about the chems eating her window tint in a couple places.

Good news is i didnt have to replace the one awning. I had a resonable PM that undertsood when I showed her.

I had to rinse one completly and show her my chems alone do not cause damage.
 
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