WesMobilewash
New member
Hey Doug, Yeah i got it on there. Again Thank You, Wes
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John no firing away buddy, you mr correct I provided both private addresses to them after my competitors called me about mike asking if they knew the location. I text them to Daryl because I thought it was strange they where calling my competition. One of the guys who called me here was Ty. Mike was asking a battery of questions. I guess they could have called me. I had turned down there tour opportunity because mike had simply not shown the ability to reciprocate the same offer. And yes Daryl wanted to attend also. So you understand in the past Daryl and wife had been invited to park there motor coach at my home because I have plenty of room. It's funny when I told them clearly that I simply did not want to give them a tour my relationship took a turn.
Personal John I careless about either one of them. One is a has been the other is a wannabes. Some here can call it I'm a bully, some could say I called them on there bullshit. When leadership in a national association condones staking my homes and business address out watching people come and go. It's truly shows how small time you really are. Lol
I'm Pwna verified , might be the only one. Going to put this into my marketing I have Mike Hilborns written words as verification.
Kinda cool joe walters award and now verified.
Proud of my association disappointed in leaders.
Yes John Mike Hilborn , Charlie and Doug apologized. I expected the org to. What transpired was not criminal John as you suggest. Just in poor taste.
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
Steven Button
Administrator
Wes, it might be an idea to post your concerns across at The Grime Scene... I may be wrong, but I think PWNA may be more willing to address them there.
I'm sure John will make it a point to see you get answers.
WesMobilewash
New member
Hey John, Well the guy i talked to from the EPA (in L.A.) told me they only A Credit and certify State and City people. And then he Laugh and said they would NOT A credit or certify anyone (association) who was charging money for Certifications. He said to ask my City if they do but he didn`t think they do. I did ask someone from the City he said no they don`t do that, But i know him and he said he would let me sit in on some of the class Plus i have a friend who is high up with L.A. county flood control he said the same thing. So i may sit in on some.
Clean County PW
Active member
Hey Ron...agreed. Mike Hilborn whos a passionate and likeable guy as u and many others have said is gone all over something bizaar..and just stupid. So you probably did him a favor by him resigning. The money in these orgs today isnt worth that headache. I would have covered all of Mikes cost to the Pwna convention because hes a good guy who did alot for very little money for a Guy in his position. But he declined and his reasoning shows u the type of guy he is which basecally is the PWNA org. or any org in the non profit org world comes first.
Since where chatting about this and your on the brink of having a political position with an org..whats your stance on a pwna member only becoming a BOD with the UAMCC? do you support the position of they have to resign there pwna membership? I support the belief you cant serve two masters in the imdustry in a board position but not the thought that you cant belong to these industry related orgs as a member if you become a UAMCC BOD.
Whats your views on that Ronny boy( being called boy after name in NY is not considered a slight..its a friendship term..such as Johnny boy.. Ron understands that lingo)
Since where chatting about this and your on the brink of having a political position with an org..whats your stance on a pwna member only becoming a BOD with the UAMCC? do you support the position of they have to resign there pwna membership? I support the belief you cant serve two masters in the imdustry in a board position but not the thought that you cant belong to these industry related orgs as a member if you become a UAMCC BOD.
Whats your views on that Ronny boy( being called boy after name in NY is not considered a slight..its a friendship term..such as Johnny boy.. Ron understands that lingo)
Steven Button
Administrator
John, you might want to start another thread with your UAMCC question to Ron.
It's a good discussion point... However, it might get lost in this thread which is on a different topic.
It's a good discussion point... However, it might get lost in this thread which is on a different topic.
Clean County PW
Active member
Good point Steve.. Those questions are coming once the candidates are announced. Your right though because it's completely off topic.
John the Pwna is a pressure washing org. Comparing it to the Uamcc which includes pw as just a small segment it just that. The Uamcc will embrace the Pwna and work with them as the pw professionals. Uamcc is bigger and will become a monster in the mobile cleaning industry. We will need to work with smaller orgs at every opportunity we can. The door will be open. Members will be encourage to join all of them if it fits there cleaning business.
Bod members sitting in both executive branches? I'm truly not certain there's a problem with that other than time. I would question the quality of being able to serve only. So I guess it would be a case by case choice for me as one vote. The members will ultimately decide who's capable and who's not.
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
Clean County PW
Active member
That is very interesting Wes and good info. The EPA themselves is an all powerful Gov't entity. There an independent agency connected to the executive branch of our Gov't which the leader in that branch is the president of the United States..but this is why you might have seen me post in the past.. There a very powerful group.. Make that extremely powerful. The president of the United states can not fire the EPA boss. The EPA boss has the power to make decisions that can ultimately send people to there deaths and they the EPA can be wrong and the repercussions to them compared to you and I is much different... So it's smart business to try and follow there guidelines or help change them if possible but don't cross them or you will be hammered and that's where you see revenue streams popping up.
As far as I know the EPA will not endorse machinery for individuals to profit... So when you see Certified as EPA compliant it's most likely not coming from the EPA themselves.. They don't endorse as far as I know private companies. I'm not an expert on them so don't hold me to this.
States, County and Towns are a part of Gov't but they fall under different laws and Rules. Example smoking medicinal marijuana in public may be legal in some states but against the law in another one. Can the states, towns, counties etc endorse certifications thru the EPA for there workers--sounds right because they work for the state, town,county. Can you get environmental Powerwashing certification for your own company thru that route and it has your private company named on it....that Wes I'd love to hear about it. It seems that can't be done but once again I'm no expert.
Here's a link about the EPA and non profits http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...fdc06487a7d5fd29852578850063b23b!OpenDocument
As far as certifications that get backed by an org whether it be the PWNA, UAMCC or whom ever the better it is for you. Is it the same as as a state backed certification? I'd say not even close but it's still gives you something and what is that? It gives you a leg up to promote whatever you have to get jobs thru your marketing, it gives you some more knowledge and that is always important because you will learn something from companies that Certify.. And it also gives you the right to use that certification if you are ticketed for something to bring that in as part of your defense. If your found guilty and you followed that certification by the book you have a right to sue.
You have to take ignorance out of the picture. If you don't know what the law was in the town your working in.. That's not acceptable in the court of law. Ignorance never is. It's the "To bad so sad" but your guilty if a law was violated and you didn't even know you broke that law.
If the Certification is a State backed one and you followed it to a tee and your found guilty then your attorney will tell you that you have a mother of a lawsuit on your hands because the state has money.. But the odds of the state being wrong is slim to none.
If an individual does certifications and there not accurate then you have a right to sue them... Same goes with org back certifications.
So personally IMHO I would love have a state backed certification for my business if that's possible. Do not know how to do that or if it can be done for my business. The guess is that can't happen.
Below that I would like to have a PWNA, UAMCC etc backed certification and then after that maybe an individual company backed certification but that one besides helping me learn a few things.. Doesn't seem worth the cost.. But then again sometimes the more you have the better it is for you.
These are all good for you to learn and market because it's dog eat dog out there. Look at other trades they all have some type of certifications that you can get.
Lastly the certification is good business. The ones who do it aren't mother theresa's and they won't eat meat or wear fur coats etc.. They do it because there usually on the smart side and there's good money in it. Also it does help us contractors to learn about environmental cleaning and we can make money ourselves with that certification. But like anything else in business you need to be insured and you are hopefully right especially in the Environmental aspects.
Because if not, you lose, the guy teaching the certification can be in trouble and the almighty EPA? Well if they can send some friends of mine to there death when they found out there decision was wrong and there not held accountable for that....what do you think you can do if your found to be in violation of an EPA ruling where local State, Towns and counties are following and they now put them into a violation code as per there area for keeping companies honest but also going to far to cause revenue streams over the smallest infractions.. What you can do is this, first and foremost find out what your state town county rules are, study up on Environmental cleaning and also look for some type of certification(s) by a place that you are confident with.
Environmental certification teachers are stairing at a goldmine which is why you may see more and more who want to do it.. And more power to them. Hopefully they are very knowledgable and there reputations are solid.. But why is that a goldmine? Because the Gov't is desperate and the green talk is mostly bull, not all bull but mostly bull, but what's stairing the gov't in the face.. Is revenue streams to help fix there overspending mistakes and in our industry the easiest place for them to go after?? Commercial Powerwashing. Big businesses do that so big fines can be collected. Small businesses do that and there out in the open..easy target.
So start with getting certified by someone who you deem to be a reputable person or company to get it from and know the laws in your area.
Good luck.. And if you find out some more info... Pass it on.. Because where all at risk.
WesMobilewash
New member
Hey John, Thanks for the Info. Yes i am Insured over 4,000,000 Gen Liability Plus 2,000,000 in Business Liability. And it`s the right Ins. A lot of guys think that if they have 1 or 2,000,000 in General Liability it covers them. So that`s something to look at.
Yes i hear you about the EPA. My friend who works for the County has a lot of Certifications from the EPA. That is 1 of his jobs, (CWA).
So i go over the Laws & Rules a lot with him and if there is something new or something i need to look out for he calls me to let me know.
And the City is one of my Customers. So yeah i`m up on a lot of the laws & rules.
So like i said before my main thing was just to see if the PWNA was A Credited by any Gov`t Agency or JUST Individuals on their BOD. giving out Certifications.
Jackie Could not (OR WOULD NOT) answer me. And she said Mike But maybe she was thinking someone else and just said Mike. WHATEVER!! The thing is the PWNA BOD DIDN`T even have the Common Courtesy to call me back.
THAT IS REALLY GOOD BUSINESS!!!!!!! Guess they must have Enough member and don`t want anymore...
Hey John i don`t mean to take it out on you. Hope you understand.
Thanks, Wes
Yes i hear you about the EPA. My friend who works for the County has a lot of Certifications from the EPA. That is 1 of his jobs, (CWA).
So i go over the Laws & Rules a lot with him and if there is something new or something i need to look out for he calls me to let me know.
And the City is one of my Customers. So yeah i`m up on a lot of the laws & rules.
So like i said before my main thing was just to see if the PWNA was A Credited by any Gov`t Agency or JUST Individuals on their BOD. giving out Certifications.
Jackie Could not (OR WOULD NOT) answer me. And she said Mike But maybe she was thinking someone else and just said Mike. WHATEVER!! The thing is the PWNA BOD DIDN`T even have the Common Courtesy to call me back.
THAT IS REALLY GOOD BUSINESS!!!!!!! Guess they must have Enough member and don`t want anymore...
Hey John i don`t mean to take it out on you. Hope you understand.
Thanks, Wes
Wes she was talking about mike , just not mike Hilborn.
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
WesMobilewash
New member
Hey Ron, Yeah i don`t know anyone from the PWNA. I just know she said Mike he is the Director.. I really didn`t care who called me back. Just someone who could answer me.
You know ever after ALL of this I STILL HAVE NOT GOT AN ANSWER!!!
Like i said from the start... The PWNA IS A BIG JOKE!!!!!!!!!
You know ever after ALL of this I STILL HAVE NOT GOT AN ANSWER!!!
Like i said from the start... The PWNA IS A BIG JOKE!!!!!!!!!
Clean County PW
Active member
Hey Wes my experiences with these orgs is what you make of them.. One of the associations I'm soon severing ties with because of retirement on my other job has over 325,000 members.... That is substantial..
I'm at a loss why Jackie told you Mike is the director.. The only thing I know for certain is that the PWNA supports there Certification classes. Are the PWNA certifications backed or supported by another agency without guessing I have no idea..
You know who would know the most there is Robert Hinderliter.. You could try emailing him but it looks like you chalked them up as a joke.. So why bother. Besides that maybe Ron here knows what other certifications are out there and who supports it.
Christopher
Moderator
You bring up a very good point John, certifications and suing.
Do the orgs have insurance in case they certify someone and god forbid, something goes wrong and the suing starts. Someone sues the contractor and then the contractor decides to sue the org because they certified him.
I doubt this would ever happen and I am sure that the orgs have the foresight to be properly insured for all kinds of things but if it did, are the orgs properly insured in case this ever happens?
Do the orgs have insurance in case they certify someone and god forbid, something goes wrong and the suing starts. Someone sues the contractor and then the contractor decides to sue the org because they certified him.
I doubt this would ever happen and I am sure that the orgs have the foresight to be properly insured for all kinds of things but if it did, are the orgs properly insured in case this ever happens?
They have no foresight on this Chris , the org was a private business for years. Might still be?
We could argue this till the cows come home. Who will someone hold liable, Nce has insurance for events and training. It's not cheap, I'll bet the Pwna doesn't have event insurance.
I don't even think from knowing how they think anyone has even thought about the possibility they could be held liable if someone got hurt from incorrect info given.
Closed loop systems are dangerous if you do not understand decontamination process. Actually each manufacture could be responsible for clean up if they are giving incorrect info on process.
Sirocco has stepped up to lesson there own liabilities by educating proper process.
Ron Musgraves text me for questions 480-522-5227 Pressure Washing Institute
Doug Rucker
Roundtable Host 2009
Ahh there you go...it was Mike Hinderliter probably. Isn't he on the board there or something? He just called me yesterday too, I bet that's the Mike she was referring to. Mike's a great guy Wes, call me if you want his number, I'm sure he can help you find the right person with the right answer.
offdutyfireman
Active member
If you post something like that on TGS Beth will it deleted before you hit the send button.
Clean County PW
Active member
Doug beat me to it. Jackie must have been referring to Mike Hinderliter. Mike is a great guy who runs and owns multiple large businesses..
The PWNA is getting to large for one person to handle the phones.. Just to give you an idea I called Jackie multiple times in one day and that's just me.. Michael Hilborn leaving was a big blow to the PWNA because aside from the "Ron" incident which Ron was free to do what he wanted with no repercussions and Michael Hilborn was not because he works for the PWNA.. automatically put Mike in a bad spot.. Kind of like checkmated.. So he had to resign.. That's the way it goes in the non profit world..
Ron's going to be a pistol if he gets elected as the UAMCC President. You heard it hear first.. Ron is a boss type.. You would never want to be a boss of a Ron type personality.. I know guys like Ron that are extremely rich and some who lost it all... But they keep coming.. Some of these guys are nice as heck and philanthropic beyond belief. These guys are like there born decision makers.. Not the big mouths we all know like maybe a neighbor who's a " Joe know it all" who can't get off the couch. These guys are loaded with energy and you can't keep them down for long.. They will come back somewhere as a Boss.
Some of these guys are on boards of non profits such as the Christopher Reeve Foundation but they are there mostly in name only.. If they were to start getting involved they would have to be the boss and they would call the shots... Doesn't work like that in non profits... In those large non profits they would end up suing each other.. Biggest reason why non profits Board Members are bonded.. There members or fellow directors try to find something and then they sue.
In Ron's case... He is the Boss.. IMHO Ron would not play well with others as second fiddle. As the president of the UAMCC Ron can't even vote except to break a tie.. Ron brings up something in the board room and before it goes to the members he could lose in there 5-4 and he can't vote on something he thought was great. He can't vote on anything..
It's going to be interesting to see now he does in there.. I wish Ron Luck.. I love board room stuff because it's behind closed doors and in there it's fun seeing the dominant personalities make there points.. You also see in there right away who the ones are that yes anything a leader says without no thought process.... That's where you get the term.. "They just fall in line" those BOD's are IMHO useless. If they thought and then said yes that's good.. But you see all this in there...
Can Ron handle not getting something Ron wants... Because Ron is that "Boss Type" personality? I'll give Ron this..at least he's finally going to give it a shot.. Where never before at least where I was ever involved in we could never get Ron to commit... Now he did..
I wish you luck Ronster.... I'd say give em he'll... But that would be bad advice.. Ummmm kick there azz..no that's not good... Charm the bejeezes out of them while making your points and don't try to beat them down if they don't agree... At the very least it's going to be interesting if or should I say when... You get in. It sure if anything will not be dull...... Go get em Lion..
Clean County PW
Active member
Beth's always cool in my book..but you William always give it straight.. You never change even if no one agree's with ya.. Did Ron say somewhere that you and him are alike?? Not even close.... Your a one man org... Lol
Clean County PW
Active member
Don't kid yourself Chris.. You never been cited for an environmental violation. If there going to hammer you for $10,000 I'm pretty sure you would lawyer up and get whatever you need together for your defense.. Hopefully that never happens to ya but over here a few months ago they charged a company cleaning a warehouse with a criminal charge higher then just a violation where if convicted there looking at potential jail time. It was due to where there water runoff went to.
As for the PWNA when I was on the board we were bonded. My guess is the BOD there is. The point even though you can't stand the PWNA is they support there Certifications. Are they the EPA? Of course not. Are they a national non profit group..well there a 501c3 and that says they are.. But on this it doesnt matter because profit or not they support there certifications or they wouldn't put there name on it.
If Jerry From Sorocco teaches or anyone for that matter teaches certifications and he could get a national org to back him it's good business for him, you, me or anyone who takes there class.
This is my opinion since I've been around awhile now.... Anyone can teach anything and mostly call it what they want within reason.. Meaning they can't upon completion hand out to the class a"Harvard Degree in Environmental Powerwashing" certificate.. That's a problem.. You get the drift
But back to Jerry or anyone again who wants to teach classes with certifications he should look to try and put in a proposition to a national org to be affiliated with them and to have them support him.
Here's what you don't know Chris and Jeff L. Is right.. Your a smart guy and it's time you step up and run for BOD slot within the UAMCC... And if you get involved in that end you will learn a lot...and if your lucky you may enjoy it.. I know most of the time I did because the guys in there are a different breed.. They really want to make a difference most of the time.
But for example of what you didn't know and Even though you maybe thinking you could care less anyway.... When I was on the PWNA Board the word Certification was a big discussion. It's always going to be if you use that word others will say" who is the PWNA to have the right to Certify anyone?" the other part of that Conversation was if you put the PWNA on a certification what is the potential liability to that". Those discussions are what makes being a BOD interesting. You don't get what you do on the net such as they suck, he sucks you suck I suck etc.. You get a real good discussion and debate with this with guys who are influential within an org.
The end result was to take that risk because anyone can sue anyways. This is why the UAMCC should look to get the BOD's bonded so there legal council expense could be picked up by the insurance Company where if you don't have that and now someone looks to sue you, you will have to pay with out of pocket expense..as in your pocket.
Not trying to deter you because being a Board member is not that hard except for some time you need to give it if you don't have it.
So what I tell ya is what I learned.... You just can't make these things up
