FCPWLLC
Senior Moderator
Nevermind........
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I Don't want guys respresenting me that have no Clue
- Thread starter Ron Musgraves
- Start date
Nevermind........
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
The point here is this:
What political victory has ever been won by taking a middle of the road stance?
To environmentalist wackos we are the enemy.
First we are BUSINESS OWNERS which they hate.
Second we are potential sources of income for the government so they can pay for MORE ENFORCEMENT of their wacko claims.
Third we use equipment that runs on fossil fuels. That makes us evil to them and adds another component to the future levying of fees and restrictions.
We are their enemy. We need to take the stance right off the bat that THEY ARE OUR ENEMY.
Does that mean that all these local officials are our enemies? Not necessarily. In many cases they are being brainwashed and used by our real enemy (environmentalist wackos) as pawns because they are easily led and easily fooled.
A perfect example of this is the global warming garbage that almost turned this country upside down economically based on false assumptions, false data and outright lies by the environmentalist wackos that tried to force it down our throats. The effects of that lie will be felt for years to come! BECAUSE NO ONE HAD THE GUTS TO FIGHT! But HARD DATA and the proof of falsified reports is finally putting the nail in the coffin of this disease.
We need hard data to show that the value of clean surfaces overshadows the small amount of runoff that makes it to the storm drains. The HVAC industry is able to do it. Here is an example where common sense and true knowledge of the bounds of the CWA prevailed - In Colorado Springs of all places!
http://www.csu.org/business/greenback/energy/tips/item2228.html
NOTICE - RUNOFF OF COIL CLEANING INTO STORM DRAINS WITHOUT SOAP IS ALLOWED. Runoff WITH soap (and friends, coil cleaner is HOT caustic) simply must be diverted to the storm drain! How simple is that? A sump pump and a hose is all that's needed! For CAUSTIC!
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? It's possible because an industry (HVAC) stood up and FOUGHT!
That industry took the biggest beating it ever took years ago when they tried to take the "Tell us what we need to do" stance with the lie about freon hurting the ozone layer. Dupont wreaked havoc on the HVAC industry by making up false data on the ozone layer so they could sell their new freon formulas when their old patent ran out. It was devastating to the industry. It appears that industry learned their lesson.
HAVE WE?????????
"Nothing down the drain but rain" is a MORONIC mantra that WE as an industry keep perpetuating because of our own lack of education as to what the CWA requires. THE CWA ALLOWS many many many many things down the drain. PLEASE READ IT!!!!
Guy, we have to fight. We have to be armed with more information than the local authorities and we have to bring it to them in an intelligent manner that challenges them to use their own brain instead allowing the wackos to brainwash them.
Now it is my understanding that Robert is promoting almost exactly what I said above. We need to be careful as an industry not to put more ideas in the heads of these officials about ANYTHING more complicated than a sump pump and a berm OR simple evaporation.
That is the ENTIRE requirement under CWA when using SOAP.
On the other hand if a guy wants to buy a big reclaim rig and sell his services to wacko brainwashed customers more power to him. I'm all for that. That's simply good marketing.
But if selling the services requires that contractor to nudge the government towards more regulation then we need to warn him once then put him out of business. No matter what it takes. A contractor (or supplier) who does that is a cancer to the industry and needs to be excised.
My hat's off to Robert for trying to get the point across that a sump pump and berms are perfectly acceptable ways to comply. Robert has taken the high road here when it would have been just as easy with his influence to try to force reclamation on the industry through tougher regs.
We are the professionals. We should be coming up with the LEAST EXPENSIVE, LEAST COMPLICATED, AND MOST EASILY IMPLEMENTED methods of REQUIRED compliance based on existing law and should promote that with all our might. "Tell us what to do" is a recipe for disaster in our industry.
That's akin to going to your customer and telling him:
"Tell me what to charge, This is all so complicated, I don't know what you want me to charge, just tell me what you want to pay".
It's crazy.
Is anybody with me on this? Or do we just let them roll all over us with misconceptions about our industry?
What political victory has ever been won by taking a middle of the road stance?
To environmentalist wackos we are the enemy.
First we are BUSINESS OWNERS which they hate.
Second we are potential sources of income for the government so they can pay for MORE ENFORCEMENT of their wacko claims.
Third we use equipment that runs on fossil fuels. That makes us evil to them and adds another component to the future levying of fees and restrictions.
We are their enemy. We need to take the stance right off the bat that THEY ARE OUR ENEMY.
Does that mean that all these local officials are our enemies? Not necessarily. In many cases they are being brainwashed and used by our real enemy (environmentalist wackos) as pawns because they are easily led and easily fooled.
A perfect example of this is the global warming garbage that almost turned this country upside down economically based on false assumptions, false data and outright lies by the environmentalist wackos that tried to force it down our throats. The effects of that lie will be felt for years to come! BECAUSE NO ONE HAD THE GUTS TO FIGHT! But HARD DATA and the proof of falsified reports is finally putting the nail in the coffin of this disease.
We need hard data to show that the value of clean surfaces overshadows the small amount of runoff that makes it to the storm drains. The HVAC industry is able to do it. Here is an example where common sense and true knowledge of the bounds of the CWA prevailed - In Colorado Springs of all places!
http://www.csu.org/business/greenback/energy/tips/item2228.html
NOTICE - RUNOFF OF COIL CLEANING INTO STORM DRAINS WITHOUT SOAP IS ALLOWED. Runoff WITH soap (and friends, coil cleaner is HOT caustic) simply must be diverted to the storm drain! How simple is that? A sump pump and a hose is all that's needed! For CAUSTIC!
HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE? It's possible because an industry (HVAC) stood up and FOUGHT!
That industry took the biggest beating it ever took years ago when they tried to take the "Tell us what we need to do" stance with the lie about freon hurting the ozone layer. Dupont wreaked havoc on the HVAC industry by making up false data on the ozone layer so they could sell their new freon formulas when their old patent ran out. It was devastating to the industry. It appears that industry learned their lesson.
HAVE WE?????????
"Nothing down the drain but rain" is a MORONIC mantra that WE as an industry keep perpetuating because of our own lack of education as to what the CWA requires. THE CWA ALLOWS many many many many things down the drain. PLEASE READ IT!!!!
Guy, we have to fight. We have to be armed with more information than the local authorities and we have to bring it to them in an intelligent manner that challenges them to use their own brain instead allowing the wackos to brainwash them.
Now it is my understanding that Robert is promoting almost exactly what I said above. We need to be careful as an industry not to put more ideas in the heads of these officials about ANYTHING more complicated than a sump pump and a berm OR simple evaporation.
That is the ENTIRE requirement under CWA when using SOAP.
On the other hand if a guy wants to buy a big reclaim rig and sell his services to wacko brainwashed customers more power to him. I'm all for that. That's simply good marketing.
But if selling the services requires that contractor to nudge the government towards more regulation then we need to warn him once then put him out of business. No matter what it takes. A contractor (or supplier) who does that is a cancer to the industry and needs to be excised.
My hat's off to Robert for trying to get the point across that a sump pump and berms are perfectly acceptable ways to comply. Robert has taken the high road here when it would have been just as easy with his influence to try to force reclamation on the industry through tougher regs.
We are the professionals. We should be coming up with the LEAST EXPENSIVE, LEAST COMPLICATED, AND MOST EASILY IMPLEMENTED methods of REQUIRED compliance based on existing law and should promote that with all our might. "Tell us what to do" is a recipe for disaster in our industry.
That's akin to going to your customer and telling him:
"Tell me what to charge, This is all so complicated, I don't know what you want me to charge, just tell me what you want to pay".
It's crazy.
Is anybody with me on this? Or do we just let them roll all over us with misconceptions about our industry?
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
The next person that says "Nothing down the drain but rain" is going to get one of these unless they can show me that sentiment in the CWA.
(Now I can't embed!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrmnTllAvGw
(Now I can't embed!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrmnTllAvGw
What if the water never leaves the property..
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
CWA doesn't apply if the water doesn't leave the property. Read the CWA. I know you already know this Ron.
They say that here....pretty good stuff
The problem is the contractors cant hear this, dist often do not want to hear this.
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?t=18140
Dollarspa
Active member
Guy Blackmon
Roundtable Host 2009
I love it when "others" who work their asses off, make a difference - then get forgotten. Sorry but I have just gotten a HUGE case of attitude here. Think myself and my multiple personalities need to take a 6 month sabbatical from all BBS boys
See ya'll.
Celeste - speaking for Carolina ProWash, PWNC & PWInstitute
Celeste, please forgive me Dear Heart, I never meant to omit the overwhelming contributions of you and Roger. Celeste and Roger (PWNC) have done more for the Contractors here in North Carolina than any people or Org. that I know of. Contractors in N.C. & S.C. have a strong, loud, and clear voice in the PWNC when it comes to local & State issues that effect Contractors!!!!!!
Celeste and Roger not only support Contractors, but back it up with actions.
Again Celeste I meant no disrspect!!!!!!
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Me neither Celeste. You put everything you've got in this industry. Roger contributes a little too.. :slap:. Just kidding. I can't wait to see you guys again. Maybe next RT I can bring Shelly so you don't have to just socialize with us galloooots.:grin:
Sirocco Jerry
Active member
Ron, Tony,
you guys have summed it up here,
right down to the Dee Dee Dee's ! :rotflmao1:
I've been going the "educational seminars" to speak up for
"practical cooperation", and eliminating "double-standards" for over 15 years,
all over the USA, including meetings with the Army Corps of Engineers, EPA, and the
American Public Works Association.
I'd like to help your efforts any way I can.. I have deep feeling on this.
I like helping to protect the environment, but for my family,
I'm a capitolist... work-speed, convenience, and the marketing-opportunities will pay for enviro-friendly to happen.
They need to STOP ignoring the available technology "cus they can't endorse a product"
... now, I'm not the only supplier in this.
2nd of all, until the Muni's' crews are "conveniently compliant" they can't legally enforce the laws on ANYONE !
They'd better start paying more attention to practicallity,
and get their own crews up to snuff, or
Dee Dee Dee, they'll get caught with their pants down, in front of the EPA,
and the city attorney!
Just like Robert H. promotes, it's a simple VacuBerm or boom, with a shop-vac that gets you started.
Tony, I love your passion my friend,
and REASONABLE implimentation, on a "level playing field" has to be rule 1
Law enforement needs to come to terms with practicallity.
Amen !??
Lastly, and some good news, simple-minded tree-huggers are not getting to get, or keep the jobs so easily any more..
impractical, and unreasonable, and "confrontational", like the "one drop of caustic can damage the sewer" guy,
are not as often who you're dealing with.
The city attorney that told 'em to "not endorse a product," is going to "re-educate them" on "cooperative technology"
it's no longer the "steam-cleaning business"..
It's the enviro-cleaning industry..
and we will all profit from it.
I promise you that, as a "brother-in-arms,"
not just a leading-edge supplier.
you guys have summed it up here,
right down to the Dee Dee Dee's ! :rotflmao1:
I've been going the "educational seminars" to speak up for
"practical cooperation", and eliminating "double-standards" for over 15 years,
all over the USA, including meetings with the Army Corps of Engineers, EPA, and the
American Public Works Association.
I'd like to help your efforts any way I can.. I have deep feeling on this.
I like helping to protect the environment, but for my family,
I'm a capitolist... work-speed, convenience, and the marketing-opportunities will pay for enviro-friendly to happen.
They need to STOP ignoring the available technology "cus they can't endorse a product"
... now, I'm not the only supplier in this.
2nd of all, until the Muni's' crews are "conveniently compliant" they can't legally enforce the laws on ANYONE !
They'd better start paying more attention to practicallity,
and get their own crews up to snuff, or
Dee Dee Dee, they'll get caught with their pants down, in front of the EPA,
and the city attorney!
Just like Robert H. promotes, it's a simple VacuBerm or boom, with a shop-vac that gets you started.
Tony, I love your passion my friend,
and REASONABLE implimentation, on a "level playing field" has to be rule 1
Law enforement needs to come to terms with practicallity.
Amen !??
Lastly, and some good news, simple-minded tree-huggers are not getting to get, or keep the jobs so easily any more..
impractical, and unreasonable, and "confrontational", like the "one drop of caustic can damage the sewer" guy,
are not as often who you're dealing with.
The city attorney that told 'em to "not endorse a product," is going to "re-educate them" on "cooperative technology"
it's no longer the "steam-cleaning business"..
It's the enviro-cleaning industry..
and we will all profit from it.
I promise you that, as a "brother-in-arms,"
not just a leading-edge supplier.
Tony Shelton
BS Detector, Esquire
Jerry, you are the man! You are so right about the speed issue and vacuuming. You've just about convinced me to buy a vacuum on the speed issue.
Common sense needs to prevail.
I'm pm'ing you with for some possible solutions in my particular field.
Common sense needs to prevail.
I'm pm'ing you with for some possible solutions in my particular field.
Clean County PW
Active member
Great Post!!! Sounds like where up to something here.
Clean County PW
Active member
Yes I read that the PWNC was big here. Celeste has vision when it comes to alot of these matters. Another good person to track down that wrote the book on Environmental cleaning is a girl who left the business years ago who I believe wrote an 800 page manual on how to wash the Environmentally correct way..Her name was Kendra Tilley who since has got married and left the business at least 7-8 years ago. She had it all figured out. You can do a search of her right here on PWI so get a better insight of who this person was.
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/member.php?u=49
Kendra's first Thread that she started here on PWI. Check it out. She was ahead of her time.
http://www.propowerwash.com/board/upload/showthread.php?t=770
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Clean County PW
Active member
I agree. This is why two other orgs are trying there darndest to get her to be a BOD for them. Maybe they should just cut to the chase and make her an exec Board member so she can be right there where all the biggest decisions start from and her imput and no nonsense attitude would scare some of those guys straight.
Carolina Prowash
Exterior Surface Pros
Thanks for the kind words guys 
As for BOD positions on either national org, I have respectfully declined for both as my vision still stands for our local companies, both contractor and vendor, and my energies will always be focused HERE. I fully and wholeheartedly believe that locals are the best people to deal with their issues. No disrespect to any national entity, but those guys only get parts of the story when they don't actually live it day to day. It's unfair to expect them to handle all issues all over the country and make everyone happy.
I will say that if either the PWNA or UAMCC ever revisit having local chapters again, I will be more than happy to support their efforts as it has always been my belief that a local network is the best foundation to build a national effort on. You don't build a house from the rooftop down.
Also, anyone from any other state who may be interested in how the PWNC is structured and how we function, please don't hesitate to call.
Celeste
As for BOD positions on either national org, I have respectfully declined for both as my vision still stands for our local companies, both contractor and vendor, and my energies will always be focused HERE. I fully and wholeheartedly believe that locals are the best people to deal with their issues. No disrespect to any national entity, but those guys only get parts of the story when they don't actually live it day to day. It's unfair to expect them to handle all issues all over the country and make everyone happy.
I will say that if either the PWNA or UAMCC ever revisit having local chapters again, I will be more than happy to support their efforts as it has always been my belief that a local network is the best foundation to build a national effort on. You don't build a house from the rooftop down.
Also, anyone from any other state who may be interested in how the PWNC is structured and how we function, please don't hesitate to call.
Celeste
Thanks for the kind words guys
As for BOD positions on either national org, I have respectfully declined for both as my vision still stands for our local companies, both contractor and vendor, and my energies will always be focused HERE. I fully and wholeheartedly believe that locals are the best people to deal with their issues. No disrespect to any national entity, but those guys only get parts of the story when they don't actually live it day to day. It's unfair to expect them to handle all issues all over the country and make everyone happy.
I will say that if either the PWNA or UAMCC ever revisit having local chapters again, I will be more than happy to support their efforts as it has always been my belief that a local network is the best foundation to build a national effort on. You don't build a house from the rooftop down.
Also, anyone from any other state who may be interested in how the PWNC is structured and how we function, please don't hesitate to call.
Celeste
You deserve them....many people have done great things this year for the industry. Its a shame they did not get noticed.
kcpowerclean
Member
Tony, don't you realize how harmful hydrocarbons are. That stuff should never even touch a storm drain. It can kill our precious fish and aquatic life so fast its not even FUNNY!
oh by the way. I'm totally joking. I could give a rats ass but I guess I should. I grew up an hour out of Berkely, tree-hugger capitol USA, bunch of loonies.
oh by the way. I'm totally joking. I could give a rats ass but I guess I should. I grew up an hour out of Berkely, tree-hugger capitol USA, bunch of loonies.