I don't believe it

Rusty, did I read your post right, can any certified hood cleaner join your collection of cleaner without going through your MASTERS program. Please tell me it's not so, even I could join your Merry Band of cleaners.

David:confused:
 
David,

Yes, yes, YES!!! Pass the spoons, napkins & a great big bowl of soup please.

Hence the name, "Certified" Hood & Duct Cleaners! You simply have to be certified to join with us! We give significant discounts for IKECA or PWNA certified members joining with us. We want to make CHDCA the premier organization to be a member of.

Rusty
 
So its more than signing in-what does it cost me? Rusty-I can feel you jerking my chain!!!!!

David
 
I think you should join IKECA and present your concept to the membership and take the test. I am sure they (we) would have open arms.

David
 
Actually the VP already opened his arms with a personal phone call x2 and asked if I would like to join with them.

A free ticket on the Titanic was surely a good thing.

I declined.

Rusty
 
Oh no!
I think that was the first volley in round two, I'm diving for cover!
 
Rusty Rusty don't flatter yourself-I am looking forward to the standing ovation at the meeting. Two of those IKECA members service more hoods ea than all 28 of your single man crews.

The meeting is in October 03. I think it $400 some $ for none members(even though you lack cert.). Then again you could give the keynote on all that we are doing wrong in the world of exhaust cleaning.

David
 
David,

That's where you have it all wrong. I think that it is great that you are IKECA certified. IKECA is a fine organization and I encourage every hood cleaner to become certified. IKECA, PWNA or CHDCA doesn't make a difference to me. JUST GET CERTIFIED!

How many of your crew leaders are IKECA certified besides yourself?

Are the people actually cleaning the hoods certified, per Phil Ackland's recommendations? Wait a minute; Phil isn't even welcome at IKECA so you know that sticking point is out.

The problem with IKECA is that it is a millionaire's club. Exclusivity oozes from their pores and dribbles down on the “want-to-be’s” that sign up and pay a lot of money to get and remain certified.

How much does it cost for 4 authorized CEU's per year from IKECA? Per employee? How much does it cost to travel to IKECA authorized CEU presentations? Stay in hotels? How much does it cost to actually get recertified?

David vs Goliath, I mean Goliath vs Rusty.

If IKECA is so popular, how come everyone on this board hasn’t paid and joined with them?

If IKECA is so powerful, how come they aren’t on the NFPA 96 technical committee making sure that it indicates that you have to be IKECA certified?

Is there anyone who agrees or disagrees with this post?

Rusty
 
Rusty

Show me in the active NFPA 96 that requires the crew managers to have a cert. It is not a requirement to date. A program will be in place ether Phil Ackland's or another. Your group has so few crews that it is not important considering you single man agenda.

To throw stones at IKECA shows how little you know, other than what you have read into PHIL's post. IKECA is not unlike any organization that has 100 plus members and many of those members are very successful and have good strong operations. You can say what you want, but they will continue to be what you aren't.

David:)
 
David,

1st calm down. 2nd take a deep breath.

3rd. we have 45 members representing 33 companies (so far).

I don't care what IKECA does or doesn't do; requires or doesn't require.

CHDCA requires that the person doing the cleaning be certified.

It's only logical.

If I go to a hospital, I want more than just the Director of Nurses to be a Registered Nurse. I want every nurse that works on patients to be a Registered nurse.

Rusty
 
I have a California State Contractor License, however my crew manager have none. I have a County Business License, my crew have none. I am a Chamber member my employees are not.

My manager clean to standards and it does not mean a thing to have a cert. They work under my Umbrella of certification.

For employee self esteem and employee knowledge the assorted crew leader programs are great. Does the customer require it NO, does the AHJ require it NO. Has anyone asked for cert. NO.

Are my employees going to service my customers at a higher level-I don't think so. What it will give them is a reason to do better-a little pride in workmanship.

You come out to California and work within this environment of government regulation and then dump more on. It is a little much even to consider this as a pressing issue. Sorry!

David
 
David,

What does certification mean to you? You proudly display IKECA/CECS after your name.

If it's no more than just letters that you pay thousands of dollars for, why do you do it?

If your employees that do the cleaning don't have to be certified, why did you even bother taking a written exam? They're the ones that need to know the information.

Why do you need the CEU's to keep it renewed if it is just for show?

You have just hit upon the REAL problem with IKECA. Only the owners have to be certified.

Certifying the owner is missing the point of certification. Certification should be on the person who does the actual cleaning.

There should be verification that the person cleaning the exhaust system knows what he is doing, has been properly trained, is qualified to clean the exhaust systems and has been certified.

As a contractor, you are responsible for your employees; they don't have to be contractors to do the work and therefore don't require a contractor's license.

As far as a business license, there is only one business, so only one license is required. Your employees, unless they open their own business, won't require an individual business license to clean the hoods.

By not certifying your employees and only certifying yourself, you show the true value of an IKECA certification, worthless. That is why there are so few in the kitchen exhaust cleaning business that are IKECA certified.

IKECA has had 11 years to improve. Instead they have taken the approach that they don’t need to change. I have done more to stir them up in the past 6 months than anyone has in all these years. If I, as an outsider, can do this; imagine what you, as an insider, can do for them David.

I applaud you for being an IKECA member and challenge you to make real significant changes for the better.

Rusty
 
RustyACE said:
David,
I don't care what IKECA does or doesn't do; requires or doesn't require.
Rusty
Click to expand...
Much the same as we dont care what CHDCA does or doesn't do; requires or doesn't require.
RustyACE said:

CHDCA requires that the person doing the cleaning be certified.
It's only logical.
Click to expand...
LOGICAL! How about an independent entity certifying exhaust cleaners THAT'S LOGICAL... Schools administer SAT's and GMT's etc but they dont write the test, they dont grade the test IT IS INDEPENDENT!
RustyACE said:

If I go to a hospital, I want more than just the Director of Nurses to be a Registered Nurse. I want every nurse that works on patients to be a Registered nurse.
Click to expand...
Would you go to a hospital where they train people with no experience to be Doctors and Nurses and then certify them as qualified and then sell them the tools of thier trade and then go and solicit patients for them?

The points are this:
A) Even though NFPA says "...by a properly trained, qualified, and certified company or person(s) acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction..."
Some of the key words:
company or person(s) & acceptable to the AHJ
It is so very unlikely that any inspector (fire or insurance) will look at a well done job and tell the restaurant owner "Good job but unacceptable because your cleaner is not certified" Inspectors inspect for the intent of the code and certified is not further defined.

B) If inspectors had the time and money to pursue the issue of certified companies and persons only, the scrutiny would then be on the certification itself. Which certification is acceptable. Well historically all accepted certifications come from independent organizations (UL, FM, CE etc...) If a certification company is also training and selling and otherwise known as a commercial venture their credibility is suspect.

I am a member of IKECA but I have no intent on becoming IKECA certified, as I work with my local AHJ's, and in discussions on this very topic they all agree that certification (biased or not) has no value.
 
For years and years this industry was viewed upon as being a scam run by travelers gouging restaurant owners for obscene amounts of money and very little quality in the service that they provided. It has taken the efforts of many reputable companies a very long time to overcome the stereo type of exhaust cleaner / scam artist. Every once in a while a new outfit blows into town and the whole industry takes two steps back again. It is fortunate for the legit companies that the AHJ's and restaurant owners and managers are better educated now as these outfits seem to now go away as fast as they appear. But this has always been a local issue and now via the wonders of the internet we are seeing what some people think is the answer to the problem when in fact they are just part of the problem.
The last thing this industry needs is a "one stop pay to learn, pay to be certified, now go get um" solution.
 
If you read NFPA 96 as Grant has stated we are within the guidelines of the code. You are pandering to Phil Acklands program and presenting yourself up as a self proclaimed "AUTHORITY" on this business. You have a long way to go. What you should do is read 96-if you need one-join NFPA and download one.

You use other peoples manuals along with maintenance programs from others. You have built a program on the backs of others who have developed the procedures.

It's not necessary to throw stones at IKECA who has been in the trench for years doing while you were selling aluminum siding in Atlanta waiting for another idea to pedal a concept for profit. This is a good thing, but it must be put into perspective of the people who truly developed the process.

If I wish to promote IKECA on my name sig. that is by my choice. Why even ask-so what-get over it.
 
Grant,

We have developed a system to train and teach and judge whether someone is able to clean hoods.

The hoodcleaningschool.com is independent of the CHDCA. They are 2 separate companies operating with 2 different owners in 2 different locations.

CHDCA is made up of "Certified" hood cleaners. The members are who make up the organization. Whether these members are from IKECA, PWNA or CHDCA, they all have one thing in common, a desire to improve this industry.

We are actively doing something about people starting hood cleaning businesses with no knowledge or support for what they are doing.

While it is true, "Certification" is more of a theoretical aspect of cleaning hoods than an actual requirement currently that is changing.

How do you propose that a person get properly trained, qualified and certified to clean hoods?

Maybe we could set up a 2 year degree program? Or better yet, a 4 year program?

We could go to colleges and universities across America and set up these schools?

4 years of Vanderbilt University will cost about $60K +.

*************************************************

David, you don't get it. I think IKECA is a fine organization. I don't have any problem with you being a member, promoting them or using their initials after your name. I applaud you for being an IKECA member. I simply am asking you to evaluate your cost to be a member vs. the cost of certifying yourself and your crew leaders.

*************************************************

I am a NFPA member and I have my NFPA 96 sitting right here on my desk. We have built what we do on the "backs" of NFPA, Phil Ackland and years of experience.

Isn't that exactly what you have done? Hasn’t every one of us built ourselves on the experiences of those who have come before us?

Rusty
 
When I contacted NFPA regarding your use of thier copyrighted material on your website they had no record of you or your "affiliated" companies. Are you a new member?
 
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