Hit after hit... Now, No Hot Water!

JimFergerson

JimFergerson

New member
Ran out of gas, started the machine back up with some gas in it, and now the burner won't fire-up.

The Generator's acting weird. When i flip on the Burner Switch, i lose power at the Outlets. When i flip the burner switch back off, i get power back to the outlets and our work light comes back on.

When i got my Rig back to the "shop", i unplugged the cord from the Generator and plugged in to the garage outlet. It immediately tripped the GFI when i flipped the switch.

I reset the reset button on the Blower Motor several times, with no luck...

I'm pretty much ruling out the Genny at this point.
Could it be the Blower Motor, the Burner Transformer or maybe Ignitors causing the problem?

smileyhead_bang-1.gif



How should i begin to troubleshoot?

Oh yeah... Beckett 120V, Winco 2kW, Landa PGHW w/1900hrs.
 
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Could be the fuel pump. open the transformer and try to spin the squirrel cage by hand to see if it's bound up. If it is stiff, work it back and forth for a little bit to see if you can free it up. If this is the case though, plan on getting a new fuel pump soon.
 
No... but i had the idle set way to low awhile back ago. I'm thinking maybe that's what may of been causing the soot build-up (and Fuel build-up) on the Ignitors. How's the best way to clean them up?

BTW - I can't use Hot Water!
 
JimFergerson said:
No... but i had the idle set way to low awhile back ago. I'm thinking maybe that's what may of been causing the soot build-up (and Fuel build-up) on the Ignitors. How's the best way to clean them up?

BTW - I can't use Hot Water!
Click to expand...
Pull the ignitors out and wire brush them clean. Open the transormer on the ignitor and clean up the contacts there. Check your connections to the transformer and then put a voltage meter to the transformer with it running to get a reading. use the ground location for the transformer for your test ground. Sounds like your low speed running kept the voltage down on the burner system and sooted it up when it was trying to keep the water hot while on standby.
 
No not yet...

I won't have a meter until tomorrow.


Okay Nigel, if your wiring diagram is correct, and i understand it right, the fuel pump/blower and the transformer/ignitor are both wired in parallel with the generator. So, either of the two components acting as a short, will drop 0Volts?

I still don't understand how i can get any voltage readings after i flip the switch, and the generator loads up...


I'm kinda leaning towards the fuel pump or blower though, because everything was working great until i got to thinking.................

I removed the top wrap lastnight to inspect the insulation. I brushed some of the soot off the top, it's possible that some insulation got blown around by the fan today.



Any thoughts on this latest twist?
 
810f250 said:
Did you get it resolved? The transformer I am thinking or a wiring short to it.

Russ J is this electrical burner schematic correct?

View attachment 18545
Click to expand...

Transformer?? I thought he said it blew the breaker in the house.

I say it would blow the reset on blower motor if it's the fan.

Is the cage turning freely. Plus when the burner first fires it's like 18 or 22 amps. Runs at like 8 not exact on any of that. Be so long since I metered or fixed any of it.


Ron Musgraves text me 480-5225227 ???Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
For what it's worth, i just tried arcing the Transformer and nothing.

Doesn't really tell us anything anyway, because we already know that the Genny's loading up when i flip the switch (and the engine RPM's drop drastically).


I'm still guessing that insulation may of gotten into the fuel pump?


I feel like i'm probably just beating a dead horse here, and i've come to the realization that i will have drag the rig down to AAA,
to have Matt work his magic...
surrender.gif
 
810f250 said:
Did you get it resolved? The transformer I am thinking or a wiring short to it.

Russ J is this electrical burner schematic correct?

View attachment 18545
Click to expand...

No, the motor would be on the switched side of the electrical source, not wired straight to power.
 
Russ Johnson said:
No, the motor would be on the switched side of the electrical source, not wired straight to power.
Click to expand...


Thanks Russ, I think mine is wired straight to the electrical source, because in my video the fuel pump has pressure as well as the blower turns whether or not the lighted rocker switch is on or off.

So this means my manufacturer units are wired like in the diagram I drew?

I thought all hot 120v pw units were setup like mine, so it can cool the coil off if the rocker switch is turned off right after using hot water and to vent the combustion gases. It will also help keep the fuel tanks free of water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0UbYPl6VxQ
 
Russ Johnson said:
Get into the burner wiring and disconnect the transformer. Try the switch and see if the motor turns by itself. If not, unhook the motor and wire up the transformer to see if you can get an arc...process of elimination.
Click to expand...

So, it's got to be the Transformer then?


I did as you suggested and unhooked the blue and the white leads from the transformer, started the machine back up, flipped the switch and the work light didn't died-out.

Did the same with the blower motor and the fuel pump, just to be sure. When i flipped the switch the Genny loaded up.



With the transformer unhooked and the switch on, the squirrel cage is spinning, but i'm still not seeing any movement in in Fuel Filter/Water Separator and no fuel is coming out of the bleeder valve either...
1sm028what.gif
 
810f250 said:
Thanks Russ, I think mine is wired straight to the electrical source, because in my video the fuel pump has pressure as well as the blower turns whether or not the lighted rocker switch is on or off.

So this means my manufacturer units are wired like in the diagram I drew?

I thought all hot 120v pw units were setup like mine, so it can cool the coil off if the rocker switch is turned off right after using hot water and to vent the combustion gases. It will also help keep the fuel tanks free of water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0UbYPl6VxQ
Click to expand...


I wouldn't want a burner wired like that. I'd want to interrupt power to the entire burner with the switch.
 
JimFergerson said:
So, it's got to be the Transformer then?


I did as you suggested and unhooked the blue and the white leads from the transformer, started the machine back up, flipped the switch and the work light didn't died-out.

Did the same with the blower motor and the fuel pump, just to be sure. When i flipped the switch the Genny loaded up.

Sounds like your transformer is shorted. Is it a tar potted transformer or a solid state ignitor? Either way, it sounds like your culprit.


With the transformer unhooked and the switch on, the squirrel cage is spinning, but i'm still not seeing any movement in in Fuel Filter/Water Separator and no fuel is coming out of the bleeder valve either...

Is there fuel in it??? lol...Check the burner coupling. It may be stripped. If it is, get some pliers and see if the fuel pump shaft turns.
1sm028what.gif
Click to expand...

Let me know...
 
carry a test-meter and check for "resistance" more often than voltage

usually, when an Ignitor fails, it burns up internally, ..like a lite-bulb burning out,
and becomes an "open circuit".. not a dead short like a motor will.
If the motor has fried one or two layers in it's windings..
it will draw more current than usual, then it may run at a "slower than normal speed"...
If the diesel-fuel pump turns at less than 3200rpms.. it might NOT allow the pump to make full pressure..
..which will NOT allow the burner to burn clean, ..building up soot.
sound familliar ??

Y'all need to learn to carry a test-meter and learn to check for "resistance" more often than voltage..
it is more accurate, and safer.

From now on, I am going to offer a Presssure Washer Troubleshooting Class
every time I put on a Wash Water Control certification class..
You guys need to troublshoot faster than "guesswork"
..at 3AM,
..in front of your most valuable customer,
..or during a demo,
..on a difficult day.

I make a big deal about how you guys should "know" the local service center,
but you are "on your own" ..more than an hour away from the tech,
..or even after 5PM

Troubleshooting that burner should have been a 15 minute project.

..and once you DO get it up,
you'll have a bunch of unburned fuel to clear out of the burner chamber..
If you are not prepared for that, you could have an "uncontrolled fire" on your hands.

..You might have to pull the reed-switch out of the flow-switch real quick,
(or pull the microswitch out of the pressure switch for you econo-machine fans,)
and hold the trigger-gun open to let the fire burn itself out.
..whilst the flowing water keeps it from overheating.
When you do start the beast up.. do it without a spray nozzle in the wand..
let it flow easy, and with less noise,so you can "hear" the burner you are working on..
A blower wheel could cause all the same symptoms descrided above..
including killing the burner-motor prematurely.
that reminds me.. Russ's suggestion of checking the fan-wheel for binding was a good one.

There's more to clearing a flooded burner than I have time to write just now.
So just call me if you need me.
 
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