HELP -- Pressure Isn't Right

HighTide

HighTide

New member
Here is my situation: My surface cleaner isn't cleaning the concrete very well and here is what I did today to check things.

Tightened the belts as they have become a little loose over the past 18 months. Cleaned out water intake filter and checked water lines for leaks. Tested psi just coming out of heater but before going into hose--showed trapped psi of 3500. Tested psi at the end of 200 feet of hose--showed trapped psi of 3500, spiking to 3800. Put in brand new 2500 psi nozzle that I just made (ss plug and 2507 tip)--psi tested just before gun while working of perfect 2500 psi. So far all great, eh?

Now, put on white tip (4006) and green tip (2506)--psi tested just before gun of 2900 psi. (all psi tests before gun is after 200 feet of hose) Now the bad one: brand new 2503 (and new 1503) nozzles on my 2-bar surface cleaner--psi tested while working before SC gun--2200 psi. I assume this is why I couldn't get the last driveway clean!!! Other factors, there is no water being recirculated from unloader back to my tank when trigger is pulled (as I finally as of today rerouted the unloader/pump recirculation back to tank when trigger is closed, and installed my new Hudson float valve). It appears that 5.6 gpm is going through my system but I haven't check to see if I fill up a 5'r in less than a minute.

I have worked all day to figure out why I can't get 3500 psi to my wand nozzle or surface cleaner nozzles (realizing that I will lose 200-300 psi due to going through 200 feet of hose). I have an 18-hp Vanguard, TS2021 pump (3500 psi at 5.6 gpm) and heater. What should be my next step as I can't get concrete cleaned easily anymore (but lower psi nozzles are getting the psi that they are supposed to)??? Could this be a surface cleaner issue as I have a new 2-bar arm and nozzles and recently rebuild swivel with new o-ring?? Thanks for any advice.
 
HighTide said:
Here is my situation: My surface cleaner isn't cleaning the concrete very well and here is what I did today to check things.

Tightened the belts as they have become a little loose over the past 18 months. Cleaned out water intake filter and checked water lines for leaks. Tested psi just coming out of heater but before going into hose--showed trapped psi of 3500. Tested psi at the end of 200 feet of hose--showed trapped psi of 3500, spiking to 3800. Put in brand new 2500 psi nozzle that I just made (ss plug and 2507 tip)--psi tested just before gun while working of perfect 2500 psi. So far all great, eh?

Now, put on white tip (4006) and green tip (2506)--psi tested just before gun of 2900 psi. (all psi tests before gun is after 200 feet of hose) Now the bad one: brand new 2503 (and new 1503) nozzles on my 2-bar surface cleaner--psi tested while working before SC gun--2200 psi. I assume this is why I couldn't get the last driveway clean!!! Other factors, there is no water being recirculated from unloader back to my tank when trigger is pulled (as I finally as of today rerouted the unloader/pump recirculation back to tank when trigger is closed, and installed my new Hudson float valve). It appears that 5.6 gpm is going through my system but I haven't check to see if I fill up a 5'r in less than a minute.

I have worked all day to figure out why I can't get 3500 psi to my wand nozzle or surface cleaner nozzles (realizing that I will lose 200-300 psi due to going through 200 feet of hose). I have an 18-hp Vanguard, TS2021 pump (3500 psi at 5.6 gpm) and heater. What should be my next step as I can't get concrete cleaned easily anymore (but lower psi nozzles are getting the psi that they are supposed to)??? Could this be a surface cleaner issue as I have a new 2-bar arm and nozzles and recently rebuild swivel with new o-ring?? Thanks for any advice.
Click to expand...

Have you removed the tips from the surface cleaner spinner to check for debris, clear the tips, blow through them to make sure there is not small grit?

Do you have a filter on the surface cleaner? If so clean it.

Have you used a shorter high pressure hose to test to see if there is a problem in the hose, a clog, calcium build up, chem build up?

Who rebuilt the swivel? Did the surface cleaner work since it was rebuilt?
 
Mike, just got back in from doing more tests on the surface cleaner out on my driveway (to the dismay of my neighbors). Turned SC upside down and damn if water isn't pouring out the weep hole. And I just put a new o-ring in this thing!!!!! OBVIOUSLY, I have a swivel issue now. My next question, should I be losing 600 psi to my wand through 200 feet of BRAND NEW 4000 psi single wire hose? And, should I rebuild the swivel again myself (as it worked perfectly for two months since the last o-ring replacement) or have it sent somewhere for a pro to rebuild?
 
HighTide said:
Mike, just got back in from doing more tests on the surface cleaner out on my driveway (to the dismay of my neighbors). Turned SC upside down and damn if water isn't pouring out the weep hole. And I just put a new o-ring in this thing!!!!! OBVIOUSLY, I have a swivel issue now. My next question, should I be losing 600 psi to my wand through 200 feet of BRAND NEW 4000 psi single wire hose? And, should I rebuild the swivel again myself (as it worked perfectly for two months since the last o-ring replacement) or have it sent somewhere for a pro to rebuild?
Click to expand...

Was it a BE design swivel, thats one of the things you have to look for on the BE design, the weep hole is under the SC cover, the mosmatics are above so you know when you have a leak.

You should rebuild it if you have the correct parts and the bearings are good. I posted a rebuild video of the BE's swivel on youtube.
 
HighTide said:
Mike, just got back in from doing more tests on the surface cleaner out on my driveway (to the dismay of my neighbors). Turned SC upside down and damn if water isn't pouring out the weep hole. And I just put a new o-ring in this thing!!!!! OBVIOUSLY, I have a swivel issue now. My next question, should I be losing 600 psi to my wand through 200 feet of BRAND NEW 4000 psi single wire hose? And, should I rebuild the swivel again myself (as it worked perfectly for two months since the last o-ring replacement) or have it sent somewhere for a pro to rebuild?
Click to expand...

A few snap rings and a new o-ring should not take to long to do yourself, I would just rebuild, I guess the question is what is causing the the o-ring to fail.
I would not expect you to lose that much pressure from just 200 feet of hose, I don't know what the psi to footage loss would be but I am sure someone does.

Good luck and tell Steph we did not go downtown today.
 
Hey David,
I had employee come to me with all the orings snap rings and bearings in his hand from the surface cleaner, the snap ring had come off. I knew it was missing some parts. Gave him my 2nd surface cleaner, drop the trailer.

Could I had fix it yes, but I brought to Under Pressure in Daytona. Fix it in 15min and was back at it in a little over a hour.
His name is John I know it would be a little ride for you, but it was well worth it that day. It cost me $50 for parts and labor
 
It is a BE swivel and thanks to you Nigel and your video, I was able to replace the o-ring 2 months ago. I was feeling pretty good about myself after the fact and having my sc work great again. I know Envirospec sells the BE o-ring for $5.30 (but has minimum order of $50). Does anyone else sell them as that is the only part I need to order?

AND BY THE WAY.....a big THANK YOU to Mike Barrett of Barrett's Pressure Cleaning for helping to install my Hutson float valve and tighten my belts today and running around town with me to find all the needed parts!
 
HighTide said:
It is a BE swivel and thanks to you Nigel and your video, I was able to replace the o-ring 2 months ago. I was feeling pretty good about myself after the fact and having my sc work great again. I know Envirospec sells the BE o-ring for $5.30 (but has minimum order of $50). Does anyone else sell them as that is the only part I need to order?
Click to expand...

Thats seems to be one of the weakest links in the BE swivel and secondly (I have not investigated this so I am not certain) that they do not use a high quality anti friction bearings.
I am guessing that you did not buy any extra Orings.
 
How hot are you running it? and are you using a steam valve to lower pressure?
You might want to check the pressure on your coil, before the hose reel and at the pump head. You may have a clogged coil.
 
If you can find one, there is something called an oring splicing kit but it would be cheaper to buy new orings, the only plus to owning a spicing kit is that it may have a fit for another oring that may fail on you for something else.

You might find something in the Home Depot under the Delta faucet parts.

The first time mine failed , dont laugh, I wrapped thread seal on the stationary seat oring position until it was thick enough, but I also knew if I pulled and released the trigger often I would burst the make shift thread seal ring , so I did all my surface cleaning and never let go of the trigger, it was at full psi.

ps. I used the tape for hot water. lol
 
Nigel...I didn't buy any extras o-rings (rookie mistake). I guess I need to have 3 or 4 on hand.

Scott...thanks for the reference (Under Pressure in Daytona) for swivel repair. I will look into that as I will be in that area doing a roof cleaning estimate early next week on a multi-building medical office complex.
 
El Flojo said:
How hot are you running it? and are you using a steam valve to lower pressure?
You might want to check the pressure on your coil, before the hose reel and at the pump head. You may have a clogged coil.
Click to expand...


My vertical heater is 490,000 btu that gets to around 160-165 degrees. Don't know about steam valves or checking pressure at pump head as that would be all new to me.
 
HighTide said:
My vertical heater is 490,000 btu that gets to around 160-165 degrees. Don't know about steam valves or checking pressure at pump head as that would be all new to me.
Click to expand...

I remember your unit from an older post, I dont think you clogged the coil already on that, it to new.

Like Greg said the nozzle could be worn, the SS nozzles I was using was only good for 30 to 45 Hrs. E spec has the ceramics now.

I see that your shopping list is getting longer. Before you know it you are at $50
 
greg/sd said:
David are the white and green tips new or old it could make a big differance in your tests.
Click to expand...

I used both, two year old ones and brand new out of the box and they were nearly identical in psi.

Based on Nigel's chart, I should be losing psi of around 350 on 200 ft of new hose...but I am actually losing 600 psi.
 
HighTide said:
My vertical heater is 490,000 btu that gets to around 160-165 degrees. Don't know about steam valves or checking pressure at pump head as that would be all new to me.
Click to expand...


HighTide said:
I used both, two year old ones and brand new out of the box and they were nearly identical in psi.

Based on Nigel's chart, I should be losing psi of around 350 on 200 ft of new hose...but I am actually losing 600 psi.
Click to expand...

If you dont have a guage on the pump head , you cant determine how much pressure you are loosing.

If I understand you correctly, you have the guage after the length of hose(200' 3/8") and before the gun (with new correct nozzle) and the guage reads 2900,

but did you ever conduct this pressure test in the manner in which I have described before today?

Maybe all you were getting in the past was 2900psi and you did not know it!
 
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