Have you been sued?

Michael T

Michael T

Member
I dont want to start another poll, just some open discussion.

How many of you have been sued, summoned to court, called as an expert witness?

What happened, what was the outcome?

Did you learn anything from the experience?

Have you changed your operation because of the suite?

If you are wondering about me. Yes, Ive been sued. Never actually had to goto court. But did have to give several depositions. Insurance company folded and payed off after dragging it out two years. I was named in the suite. I had insurance, building owner had insurance, restaurant owner did not. Go after the deepest pockets, as they say. This happened in '89', I had only been in operation for 2 years, working hard to become established. Needless to say it was quit a blow as insurance rates quadrupled for 3 years. At that time I had never heard of PWNA, IKECA or Phil Ackland. But I did have a business plan and had been to a Vent cleaning school in VT. But Im still here, established, and run a much tighter ship now.

Lets hear from some others.
 
Please anyone, tell us. I may be recieving a summons and want to know what to do before the s**t hits the fan.

Reed
 
Hello Michael T,

PWNA, and IKECA were not around in '89.

I've never been sued, but my wife threatens too every time I buy another piece of Old Iron. :D

Dave Olson
 

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Hey Dave, I can see that truck with a boiler on the back, and going washing.

I wish I had the space to have some of those kinds of toys.

Scott
 
Hello Scott,

My son and I are planning to go to the national show of the Antique Truck Association in Auburn, Indiana this June. He has a 70's something Kenworth tractor.

This old '46 White only has a top speed of about 50 mph and it's a 260 mile trip. We plan to load the White along with one of my old tractors on a lowboy and use his KW to pull them! Should be a great time.

Dave Olson
 

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Oh fine, you brought the past truck driver in me. I want to go. That sounds like a lot of fun.

Scott
 
This is the beginning of the saga:

This is a heads up to those whom have to deal with uneducated decks builders. By uneducated I mean in refernce to the way deck, new and old are cleaned.

I recently, May 2004, cleaned a new construction cedar deck. I did a test spot of approx. 4sf of the floor where the grill will cover. I determined that it was not needed on the rest of the deck. So I did an oxalic bath and light pressure rinse. My problem started there. I should have left the oxalic on it to put up a barrier to tannin. I let the deck dry to a reading of 8 to 10 percent, depending on the piece I check with the calibrated J-Lite meter. 3 weeks later the tanning had returned so I did a light was with oxalic again and lightly removed the surface layer of RS. Tannin disappeard and was letting the deck dry. Now in the meantime, this deck is 5 months old, knots started falling out left and right. My assesment is that the quality of wood was not good, probably grade 3 when he promised 1 and 2. Grade 1 cedar is clear, NO knots, this is usually a special order type wood. The deck builder in order not to honor his warranty and eat the labor to replace 10 boards pointed the finger at the chemical wash process. How ridiculous. Even I after I showed him the US Forestry literature that oxalic, citralic, and Oxygen based cleaners have no effect on density, lignin, and bonding adherences of knots and wood strength, he still is determined to blame the chemicals.

The deck boards that I did the test spot using efc38 have ALL the knots intact. Imagine that. The latest saga is that the salesman for the deck builder is going to contact an agent with the local forestry service to come out and assess the wood grade. I hope the agent knows the latest science of wood cleaning and milling cedar.

The builder even tried to get me to pay half the cost of board replacement. What a joke. My half of the bargain is to get the deck rewashed and restained period. But he has to satisfy the homeowner as to why the baords didn't last.
 
Further details.

The latest is now he wants a forestry rep out to look. I say, Bring it on. Will only prove my point that the grade of lumber was not what he promised the homeowner. Plus, he has no idea when the wood was cut, milled and/or how long it sat in the lumber yard. The deck was built in late March. That wood could have been cut as long as November 03.

Now to expand on this:

Homeowner called asking if I had heard anything from the Forest Product Supply agent sent out to inspect the deck? 1) This agent showed up and the first words out of him were, "I know nothing about cleaning and sealing of decks. This is a learning lesson for me." !!!!!

2) After explaining all over again the issue with this deck and 2 hours later, the builder decided it would be best to send a sample of the wood in for analysis. the builder took out a circular saw and cut a 1 foot piece out of the homeowners deck floor. Yes he did, cut right into the floor. Then the builder started going around the deck floor with his infamous screw driver and hammer banging on knots and knocking them out.

Well yesterday, homeowner stated he contacted a lawyer and was recommended to file a suit against everyone. Homeowner has not decided to do this as yet in that it will cost him 5K up front for a 12K deck.

I again referred him to contact the deck builder and state to him that this agent was brought out to his house by the builder and the builder should be responsible for further contact with this agent, not the homeowner or Me. This situation has now been going on since May. I have a feeling this will wind up in court.
 
More info:

From what I gather from the homeowner, the builder states" If he replaces the floor boards, what's to say when more knots fall out in the weeks to come, that he won't be back at the same issue?"

I have printed out all literature I can see that pertains to this from the Western Red Cedar Lumber Assoc. , Joint Coatings/Forest Products Laboratories, and the Fed. Forest Service. Plus different chapters of the Wood Care Manual from the Forestry Service. I have given copies to the homeowner and I have mine. Plus, with Russ being local I have a manufacteres rep ready to go.

This builder doesn't want to spend the $$ necessary to make this right. They are all about making money and don't want to satisfy the customer and have money taken out of their pocket. They have no real clue as to the care of wood, and for that matter, they don't attach wood based on crown but on appearance.

Now the temps are falling real fast, knots continue to fall out and soon no cleaner is going to work like it should for me to redo this thing. What a frustrating P.O.S. this is.
 
Last and latest bit of info:

This deck was new construction. It required a light cleaning and brightening. I started with a test patch of weak strength EFC38 and a test patch of DeckBrite in an inconspicuous area. I determined that the deck could be cleaned with just an oxallic bath and the EFC38 was not needed. The entire deck was bathed in oxallic to brighten and help knock down the tannin. Then I rinsed the oxallic off. I don't know why I rinsed it off cause I normally leave oxallic on. Deck was allowed to dry, meter showed between 8 and 10 percent. I applied two coats of RS light brown and the deck was awesome. Two weeks later the homeowner called and asked me to come and look at the deck. Tannin had come through horribly. I put more oxallic on it, it knocked it down and then rinsed and applied one more light spray of oxallic and left it on. Two days later meter showed 6 to 8 percent and I was ready to seal. Homeowner asked why the knots were coming loose. I told him that the knots were coming loose before I started the deck the first time, which he agreed he had seen that. And I told him that I have suspicions that the wood was not of very good quality. He stated the builder told him it was graded exterior construction knotty. He stopped me from sealing a second time. Now here we are.
 
How typical of a lawyer....SUE EVERYONE.

Sounds like a shady deal from the builder, would you mind dropping me a name via email. I will be having some deck work done this summer and would like to avoid this guy. Or better yet how about someone you recommend. jddodson@cleanhood.com
 
Reed, It looks like the Deck Builder is trying to pass off his poor materials choice onto you. This problem would have occured after a couple of rains. I hope you prevail without spending too much money. Put the blame back on the bulder where it belongs.
 
The first time someone threatened to sue me, I got real nervouse, called my lawyer, reviewed my service reports and worried alot. Now, I just ask them which lawyer they want to talk to, my Baker City or my Ontario lawyer. I tell them to enclose a check for $500.00 because when we get done, they will pay all attorny fees for their lawyer and mine. In 25 years +, I have never been sued, never been deposed,and only once did a situation actually go to court, but I was not named. I did have my insurance premium double that year. Now , if you are actually at fault, practice crawling on your knees. It is much cheaper than going to court.

If you do not have one now, you need a lawyer you are comfortable working with. Talk to other business people, get refrences and make a choice. Make sure they are now licensed and have not lost thier license. Lawyers specialize just as pressure washers specialize.Lawyers are a requirement to be in business just as your accountant is a requirement.

Douglas Hicks
General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc
 
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Thanks Doug, will be talking to some soon. I will got to the Missouri Bar Association's local office to get some names.

Reed
 
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