God Bless the Unions.

smittie1984

smittie1984

New member
Your Sarcasim meter should be going crazy right now.

Being new to the Business in Pressure Washing I am not exactly flooded with work. So to get money to help my business when I'm not exactly ahead I do work with some friends who also own businesses. 1 person I work for is my friend's dad. We do Machine work. Custom Fabrication, Die and Stamp making, Automation. Stuff like you see on OCC except more complicated, effects the economy more, and is designed to make the UAW boys life's easier. For example we designed an Air Powered Automation device that puts on the "Onstar" intenna.

Well I was about to get some work with my friends dad for doing some design work. But the Union found out that this Machine Shop isn't Union. But of course the Owner is the only one working there. So they blocked it and we aren't going to get the work. The problem though is there are no Machinist or anyone at that plant or GM in general who does designs like that.

By the way they aren't going to find a Machine Shop who is Union. So they have no plan to fix the problem which needs to be fixed.

I've never understood Unions. I always felt that if you don't like the money your making at your job. You go and get another one.
 
Smittie
There is good and bad in anything.I grew up in a union family,and owe alot to my fathers union job,which gave us a nice middle class lifestyle.I worked there for 5 years myself and moved on.I prefer to work for myself,and realize there are abuses in unions like anything else,but if joining a union would open up more avenues of revenue I would join if the positives outweighed the negatives.Maybe your friends father should check into joining the union,since it seems this auto manufacturer could be a source of some major work in the future.I am pretty sure there are union machine shops.Sometimes I think I should of stayed at my fathers union job,he retired at 57 two years ago with a $50k a year pension and full benefits.Sometimes it all depends on which side of the fence you are on whether something seems beneficial or not.
 
There are no Union Machine shops in Georgia. Georgia isn't that friendly to Unions.

I've worked a lot with GM and their subsideraries. And been inside the plants a lot. 1 time when doing a job for 1 of GM's subcontracters we had 1,400 complaints filed against us because we are not Union. Which means that the workers there had nothing to do but complain. If they were busy and working they wouldn't have the time to complain. Also what they could never understand is that we weren't working for GM at that point. We were with another company that does work for GM. We had no connections or ties to GM.

1 item we built got sent back to us by the Union becuase it put Caluses on a workers hands. We also had to design a conveyer system at 1 time because they were getting grease on their hands.

And God forbid you park your car there and it not be GM. If not GM you better keep some spare tires with you. And definetly don't drive an Import. You better keep a spare car with you. The union's power is Violence. GM could replace an entire plant within a month easy with well paid but not overpaid employees. It is monkey work. It would cost them at first but in the long run it would help them. Also help the quality of our cars go up and the cost go down. It would drastically improve the U.S. economy. The only problem is that whoever crosses that picket line wanting a job puts themself in danger.

I grew up in a Military family. It didn't matter if my Dad or Mom stayed up 24/7/365 in a row you got paid what your paid. Also I lost respect for the Unions after I delt with them. Because I have yet to meet a worker in 1 of those plants who is really worth what they are being paid.

Also the guy I will work for has 0 employees. He is usually a 1 man operation. So he would have no one to strike against except himself.
 
Unions are in place for the workers. Before Unions companies would fire workers without any merit. IF they felt that they were making to much they would can the worker so they can hire a lower wage worker. If one of there workers wanted a raise they to could be fired for asking. etc.etc.etc

Today Unions are still there to protect the workers. If a company wanted to lay off a few workers they would have a tough time doing this if the workers had a strong Union. Unions bargain for the workers so they can get better wages and benefits.

Unions today are still a good thing for the average everyday Joe the worker. They are there to protect his rights because if they didn't then who would??
I should know I'm a Union officer on my other job..........
 
Smittie
I agree with John.Like I said before it depends what side of the fence you are on.If you were one of the guys inside the auto plant making $30 hour,or whatever they make, the union would not be such a bad thing to you.As far as monkey work,pressure washing might seem like monkey work to some one else,I don't put down what people do for a living.If the company had their way,thay would replace everyone in that plant with $6.00 illegal aliens like you will find in many non union manufacturing plants or warehouse operations,I don't think that vastly improves the economy. They claim they can't find Americans to fill the jobs in these non union places,but the real reason is they can't find Americans who want to work for poverty wages,which is what they offer because that is all they want to pay.The reason the union protects their area from non union operations is that sooner or later if the company uses non union outside contractors,the company will chip away at jobs inside that plant with outsourcing.I respect your family being from a military background and thank them for their service,but if the military was union,and they worked the hours that they did,they would live a nice lifestyle worthy of their service,not just above the poverty level like many enlisted military families do(no disrespect to your family).One of the biggest injustices this country makes is the low pay we pay our enlisted military for the important job they play in protecting all of us.People like to piss and moan about the everyday guy in a union making a good living in a factory somewhere,but they forget that many cops,firemen,teachers,health care workers,actors,etc belong to unions also for the same reasons stated before.The reason some companies leave the Northeast and go down south or across the border is because they can pay lower wages because those regions are not as unionized,they say it is to be competitive,it is to increase profit margins,and please their shareholders,not a bad thing but I would rather work for $26 hour than $6 as an employee..I don't want to get into a pissing match about union/non union or north and south.I just wanted to show a different perspective on your original post.As far as your fathers friend being a one man show,believe it or not he could set himself up as a union shop if he wanted to and have access to alot of the work you were talking about.like John pointed out ,it is to protect the workers.The many things that non union employees enjoy today,like a 40 hour work week,over time pay,health benefits,vacations,a safe work environment etc.were brought about by forming unions back when unions were formed because many work environments back then were harsh,low paying ,dangerous places to be,and the workers stood up to protect themselves,because trust me no company would introduce these things on their own back then,or even now if the workers did not join together and form unions back in the day,these things would be non existant today.I choose to work for myself,and I am not in a union now,but I was a teamster for 8 years total,and my father for 32 years,and the union was a good thing in our lives.One last thing,even to this day I will never cross a picket line,nothing to do with the danger part.It has to do with respect for the person fighting for his job.I don't care what the consequence is for me financially I never would cross a picket line.
Jim

Jim
 
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I feel that there is a need for the Union...

...But the Union has gained too much power. Or mainly Teamsters and UAW. Most other Unions yeild little power.

I don't know if you have ever been into a production plant. I have. I have to say it is an Amazing Operation. Theose production plants have LED screams running everywhere showing who is running behind and by how much. I was there helping out on some conveyor work and I noticed this old guy standing there working litteraly with a job of pulling a lever. But he wasn't keeping pace nor putting in an effort. And people down the line was having to hurry to fix his mistakes. Finally a young "Rookie" Supervisor who hasn't figured out Unions walks up to him and asks him what is he suppose to be doing. He just told him to F-off and check the bulletin board. There would be his Job Description.

Now look at the perspective of the owners of GM and these companies. If you had an employee who wasn't up to par. Wasn't working hard. Then told you to F-off you probably wouldn't even offer him a ride home. Yet that guy keeps his job costing that place money. Whcih transfers to You. Providing you buy Domestic.

Another experience I had was when I was doing work at a Subcompany for GM. I was there doing maitanence. By the way the UAW forced this company to go Union. Well I installed a new Vacum Switch for this part of the assembly process. I was overthere trying to install it but the worker kept asking me to move it. Sometimes in increments of 1/8s of inches. Then when I got it set up for 1 worker the next shift would come in and complain. I relocated this button 5 times in a 2 day period. I had to replace the button the 6th time because the plasma cutter finally messed it up. Then I told them I'm not moving it again. So they complain to the Human Resource officer and he approaches me. He told me to just find a median. So what I do is walk over there with a Plasma cutter and cut the entire beam out. Then I move the button 10feet from the proper location and told him to work there. Luckily it was my last day there so it didn't matter what they thought. By the way the Idiot probably is getting workers comp because he stared right into the Welder.

When the Union was first started I feel there probably was a need. But now it is rediculous. The protection those UAW boys are offered are insane. You could accidently kill 20 people, cost the plant Millions of dollars and all they would say is "Where does it say I can't do that in my Contract?"

Like I said. Look at it from the perspective of the Owners of GM. You would fire probably 90% of those people if it was your business. If you don't want to make $6.00 an hour at a non-skilled job. Then it's time to find a skill and get a better paying job. It's called Capitalism. I guess it comes down to idealology. You believe that a person can fight for THEIR job. I believe the Job belongs to the company.
 
There are some problems with Unions as you pointed out and there are some other problems also but the good of the Unions will out way the bad if you total them up together. The end result is much worse for the worker that has no Union then the one that does which is once the worker gets paid to much because of his skills the Company will most likely be looking to replace him with much cheaper labor because MONEY is always the bottom line where loyalty come second..Unless again your talking Union where loyalty means something.

Why do you think so many American companies go outside this country for labor..They try to tell you because of the Unions making everything to expensive but the real reason is because they can get that 32 cent/hour employee and even there children to work for them. Why you ask?? Because there is no loyalty..its always and forever about the Money. Unions would never let this happen.

AN Example of this is the woman Kathy Lee Gifford who's clothes line which she was paid annually 11,000,000/yr was made by cheap labor with some of them being children for that 32 cents an hour and of course Kathy Lee tells our Country that she had no Idea...Yea right!! The Unions would have sued and crushed that lyin b****..You get the picture.

Now if your the Rich owner of a business as we all hope to be one day the last thing you want is a Union that infiltrates your company because you don't want them controlling you on how to pay your employees. This way once again if you have no union and your workers are now making $35/hr and you know you can break in new guys for that $6/hr most likely you will follow what other successful companies do..which is to fade out the $35/hr guy and give him some garbage severence and bring in the new guy...The bottom line in business once again is MONEY.
 
Kathy Lee Gifford

This is where Capitalism comes in and shines at it's best. We get word of Kathy Lee Gifford with the cheap labor clothing line. People who are appauld quit buying her stuff. Thus for she goes under. It's how Capitalism works.

Lets pretend there are no Unions. Company X decides to pay their workers $5.15 an hour with no benefits. While company C which makes the same product and pays their employees $12 an hour with some benefits. Who would you buy from? Company C more likely. The other benefits to buying from Company C is that the quality of the product would be better. Becuase the Employees there don't have a Safety Net for their job they know in order to keep it they have to do quality work. So because Company C does better work and is able to keep the price of their product down. Company X would go out of Business.

Another benefit is that U.S. worker wouldn't have to get paid as much to buy a good quality US product. That would strengthen the US dollar big time making us the dominent power in the World Economy.

This is basic Capitalism.
 
Smittie
.The sad fact is most Americans talk about being patriotic,but flood places like Walmart that flood this country with products made in China,and what we see is just the tip of the iceburg compared to what is in store for us in the future if we do not wise up as a country and put America and Americans first.As abundantly wealthy as this country is there is no place other than a fast food joint or some other commonly known entry level teenage type job for a $5.00 an hour wage.People today just care about themselves and screw anything that doesn't immediately effect them.Where John is from, Long Island and I am originally from NJ you can take that $12 and double it and then some and hope you get some overtime to have a livable wage for an average family.With money comes power and when the unions first formed the big industries had all the power and money and paid the average workers poverty wages,and had very brutal working conditions,and without the workers sticking together and standing up for themselves,it would be the same thing today if certain commonplace working standards were not demanded by the unions(sorry about repeating myself from my earlier post,but I thought it necesary).How would very rich companies and very poor workers be a big boost to the economy? As far as the abuses by some of the UAW workers in the plant you were in,that is in every part of our society.Some people just don't care about their work,and it is true it is harder to get rid of a union worker it is not impossible as most people think.I put in my previous post how I grew up in a union family,but I was also a supervisor at UPS for almost 5 years,and had to fire some union employees who really deserved it,stealing,not coming to work, or just a plain out piece of sh#t who once in the union did not want to work.But for the most part most people at UPS work hard and deserve every dime they make.As far as my fathers job at the rail yards.It was hard work and when we had to we worked 7 days a week and would sometimes work 4 double shifts during those seven days,around the clock in all type of weather.Did the men make money,sure did,some guys made over $100,000 a year and deserved it they busted their ass to make the company alot of money and cover all the work that came in,hell I was making $60k,when I left in 1990 to start my own business and I was only halfway down the seniority list.Would the company prefer to not have a union there and pay workers a 1/3 that if they could ,sure would have.The spending power of those 150 workers making between $60k and $100K a year putting that money back into the economy supporting their families helped the economy more than going back to a few rich owners.It might sound like I don't like capitalism,just the opposite I am a flaming capitalist,starting businesses and getting ahead in life is what flows through my veins,but everyone is not like you or me some people are content to be workers and there has to be some checks and balances to protect the average joe worker like John stated previously.
I realize we have different viewpoints from our own perspective and experiences,but a livable wage for Americans is more important to our economy than a $69 tv at Walmart. Kathy Lee sure did know about the conditions her clothing line was being produced under,to be honest the average American could care less,unless they were one of the workers from a closed clothing factory. They just liked to see some dirt on Kathy Lee.I am no fan of Kathy Lee,I loved when Howard Stern would bust on her,but the average person is still buying those clothes under a different name,and could care less how they got there $7.00 sweatshirt.The unions are not hurting this country,lack of loyalty to this country by corporations that became very successful in this country ,who forget where they came from in lieu of corporate greed are hurting this country more than the unions ever could.
In closing ,would I like it if I owned a company and the workers unionized,as John stated before,probably not,it would mean more money out of my pocket,but that is the price I would have to pay for living in a great,free country where people have the right to join together and make their services more costly to acquire by forming a union, which they would be able to provide more for their families.Trust me unions don't form where they can't be supported by the company,if people think a union would cause the colapse of their company they usaully don't get voted in,especially if the company is taking care of their employees.
Jim
 
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I see people mention how where they are from you can barely make a livable wage if you doubled $12 an hour. Here in Georgia if you make $12 an hour and work an average of 40 hours you can make yourself a living. Now you can't raise a family well or as nice as you would like to off of $12 an hour but you can have a home with Central heating and Air, Water, a used vehicle and plenty of food. Now you can't afford yourself a brand new Chevy Suburban. Or the endless amounts of Repairs your going to have to do to it. Or your Michelob beer. But your alive and living much better than many people. Probably better than many people making $20 an hour up north.

I never thought much about it until my uncle from Seattle mentioned how $26 an hour isn't much. If you made $26 an hour with a gaurenteed 40 hour week you could live like a king. You could have a nice house with a New Boat and a brand new Chevy Truck you got on the A-plan.

I found that the strong Union states or areas have a higher cost of living. Someone making $12 an hour in Georgia which isn't a strong Union state probably has the same lifestyle as someone making $24 an hour in New York. That translates to the Dollar in Georgia is much stronger than the dollar in New York.

Another thing the Union is holding us back on is Alernative Fuel Technology. And this is why the Unions hated George Bush so much. What bush wants to do is open the doors for these Alternative fuel vehicles. Now Kerry said the same thing but Bush's underlying message is to screw what the UAW thinks. For us to advance in this Technology it is going to require a lot and I mean A LOT of cooperation between Japan. Who is leading the charge. But the Union wouldn't let us do a simple job from probably the most loyal GM customers ever. (We have 6 Chevy Small Blocks sitting in our shop). The owner has bought all Chevy up until recently. (I might add he went to a ford and then a Dodge but hates them all now so his next vehicle he wants to get is a Toyota) But if the Union is going to block cooperation between some small machine shop. Do you think they are going to let Toyota or Honda share their technology. Which I might add we tried before but UAW to the Rescue. We almost got a job for that.

By the way the Union intervention is jacking our Gas prices up because OPEC knows our dependency on oil. If we had Alternative fuel and they know we aren't dependent you would see a dramatic drop in Oil prices. Which I'd like to make a prediction. If these Alternative Fuel and Hybrid Technologies start getting pushed hard and a funding bill goes to Congress. Your going to see Gas prices Plumet so Congress dumps the bill.

I love studying and learning about the Economy. A lot of it still baffles me. But if we were to let Capitalism run it's coarse. As in the least amount of Government possible and as little amount of intervention from the Unions (Also if Greenspan would keep his mouth shut) The economy of the United States would dwarf the EU and the Japanese combined.

Also a note. I have no problem with Unions if they are used properly. And I believe most are. Mainly because they lack a lot of power. The UAW and Teamsters are the Powerful ones which have abused their power. And I don't know if Teamsters is all to powerful anymore. There is good and bad in everything. But nothing should come between an Owner of a Private Company and how they want to run it.
 
But nothing should come between an Owner of a Private Company and how they want to run it.

This once gain would be the reasons why an Owner of a private company might do some unethical things like canning a person thats been with them for so many years just because that person is making to much money. Now that person and his family which may include kids will suffer. If everyone was honest and always did the right thing then Unions wouldn't really be needed and still today on some jobs they aren't..Like My Powerwashing business :) but by and large I feel they are needed in so many other companies that do take advantage of there workers...and its like Micheal Douglas said in that excellent movie called "Wall Street" when he's talking about GREED and most very rich people are driven because of it which doesn't make it wrong but they may get rid of the regular hard working guy because of....greed just so they can fatten there pockets.

Either way Unions or no Unions it just depends on the jobs and the history of the jobs at whatever company that we could be talking about. If the company is known as one to screw with there workers then I would say UNION like Sally Field did in the Movie "Norma Ray". If the Company has a great histroy of being fair and not doing unethical layoffs etc. then No Union. I will also add that most business owners would just about NEVER want a Union in there company so that says Volumes there..I know I wouldn't want one in mine if I ever get real successful.
 
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